nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:29 PM
Original message |
This FISA vote may prove to be a strategic mistake for |
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the party and the party's nominee
Yep. they are different from Pubbies in national policy, but when it comes to the constitution they just proved that the leadership does not believe in that fucking piece of paper either
I will work for local candidates that have not proven yet that they are fickle with this document
My purse strings and time for this presidential campaign is done for
PERIOD
I don't negotiate the Constitution
Oh and Agent Mike I hope you do enjoy my talks with my mom and find them as boring as they truthfully are... after all, now you can legally listen to them
Have fun...
And fuck hoover
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GarbagemanLB
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:30 PM
Response to Original message |
1. It is still up in the air whether or not I will donate to Obama going forward. We'll see. |
nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
2. I gave some money, but that's it |
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in fact the magnet is comming off the car today... or rather tonight
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Bonobo
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:34 PM
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5. You should leave DU while you are at it since we are here to SUPPORT our nominee, not cut him down. |
Demit
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
8. There is NO rule on DU that says you must give candidates money. |
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There's also no rule that says Democrats can't be criticized. The only rule is that you cannot openly advocate for Republicans.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
9. I am not cutting him down |
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read again
But I will not give one more cent
And that my dear is my prerrogative
What I had in my budget is goint to Candidate Lumpkin... dem, 54th district of California... running against Hunter's son
Last time I checked I did not have to give to the presidential candidate
to be a member of this club
And if that is the rule... then my friend welcome to group think
But the candidate will hear why he is getting zero cents from me comming forward... tomorrow morning
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skooooo
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
13. You weren't giving him any money anyway! |
LVjinx
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
23. What's that convention thingy for again? |
calimary
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Thu Jul-10-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
83. I just wish our Dems would show some BACKBONE... |
skooooo
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
4. I'll be anxiously awaiting for you to announce your decision. |
GarbagemanLB
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:37 PM
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7. Sorry if I take issue with shitting on the Constitution and the 'Change' candidate doing NOTHING. |
woolldog
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
21. The amount of hyperbole I've seen on DU about this bill is |
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funny and sad at the same time.
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NYC_SKP
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
27. skoooo, thought you'd never get here. |
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or some fucking body....I've been trying to reason with them all by my lonesome.
the cavalry....ahhhh!
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
31. Skoo is on ignore, so you know |
NYC_SKP
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
33. Ah, ignore, the cyber version of "na na na na na na...I can't hear you" nt |
nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #33 |
ruggerson
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
50. Given that you were such a huge partisan in the primaries |
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I'm surprised how this one vote has altered your perception so markedly.
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democrattotheend
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Thu Jul-10-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #50 |
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Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 09:44 AM by democrattotheend
I've seen a few hardcore Obama supporters shift over FISA, but mostly it seems like it's been the people who supported Kucinich or Edwards or Dodd and then eventually Obama who have been really hard on him, as well as some of the people who were for Clinton but now support Obama or were for Clinton, still don't support Obama, and see this as an opportunity to capitalize on dissent within Obama's base of supporters.
What's been strange has been seeing some of the Clinton supporters like you be more reasonable and less hard on Obama than some of his long-time supporters. I guess you guys did not put him up on a pedestal before so it bothers you less when he's not perfect.
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liberalmuse
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message |
3. I'm not ready to give any more $ for awhile... |
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I wish I hadn't donated just before I heard about the FISA vote a couple weeks ago. I will never understand it. Ever. I love The Constitution, and it is painful to watch it being obliterated like this. I never thought America would come to this in my lifetime. I do not believe in anything or anyone anymore. I'm voting for Obama for selfish reasons, probably, because my only other alternative is suicide. I can't watch this shit for much longer.
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Larkspur
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:37 PM
Response to Original message |
6. I closed my wallet too |
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Obama can beg for small dollars from those elusive centrist voters he thinks support the trashing of the Constitution and our privacy rights.
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Pale Blue Dot
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message |
10. I just posted essentially the same thing. |
ecstatic
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message |
11. I don't know why I can't muster up the appropriate level of outrage |
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Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 09:41 PM by Truth Hurts A Lot
over this. Maybe I'm just so tired after 8 years of Bush? Maybe I'm too focused on the END GOAL?
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
14. The end goal is the reestablishment of the Republic |
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at this point I am not too sure that the parties will willingly do that
Or it is my outrage speaking
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Name removed
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message |
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Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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NYC_SKP
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message |
15. These weeks are but a microsecond to be lost in the centuries of American History |
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It's the damned four or eight years that are going to make your kids world one of hell or hope.
Sorry, but the means justify the ends, he (or anyone) needs to remain vague and move to the center in order to win among all voters.
He's not running for the democraticunderground vote.
I'd love if a candidate could run a purity campaign and still win.
Unfortunately, we are working with common voters, uninformed, low information voters.
You're all smarter than to think he can win without making compromises.
Now, after he's inaugurated I will join you in every reasonable and legal effort to keep him to his word, but he must first defeat McCain.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
16. Sorry, my candidate donation for the month just went to the ACLU |
Pale Blue Dot
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Wed Jul-09-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
17. He is LESS likely to defeat McCain after this vote. nt |
frog92969
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
58. Even if this was some sort of compromise... |
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what voters would this have been a compromise with?
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salguine
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message |
18. Maybe it's time to start supporting and working for third-party candidates. |
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It's pretty evident that the Democrats have a vested interest in not fixing anything. Ever.
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PurityOfEssence
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message |
19. Harry Truman said it best: |
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"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time."
Nobody really knows, but it seems that much of the support Obama's garnered has been from people disillusioned with politics-as-usual and the system itself. Not only does he run the risk of losing people, he runs the risk of them feeling betrayed and disillusioned as he continues to follow the very standard tactics of old politics: dodge controversy and seem to be "with" whatever audience is being courted at the moment.
He needs to stop this now or he'll blow it. The very idea of a stiff like McCain being this close after the dismal performance of his party speaks volumes.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
22. 'xactly, and that is the kind of strategic mistake we just saw |
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after all how many folks went to his site? multiply that by ten, marketing numbers and he just dissed, quite possibly, millions
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frog92969
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message |
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They gave alot of validity to the "one party" accusation. Now that the repugs have firmly established in the minds of the masses that they are the party of criminal abuses, here come the Dems proudly announcing that they can be the same.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
25. Yep, or the imperial party accusaton and empires will do what |
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empires will do
We are left with few choices. none apealing
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frog92969
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
46. And we know what empires do, |
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they fall. Which would be the best AND the worst thing for all of us, but maybe then we'll get our democracy back.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #46 |
51. I know and it is on its way to falling apart anyway |
Barack_America
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message |
24. "I don't negotiate the Constitution" |
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So don't give McCain the chance to stock the Supreme Court with Scalia-clones.
Single issue much?
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
28. Did I say I will not voote for him? |
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Me not giving money does not mean I will vote for McCain
and that single issue is kind of critical
and given the vote... I am not so sure at this point that Obama will surrender the powers of the executive, or appoint liberal judges
I am going here by a vote... chances are he will be better... but not exactly the best when it comes to impersial presidencies or my civil rights.
And yes, single issue much... everything else in this country flows from this single issue
And it is not about one party or the other, but right and wrong
Then again we all know the republic is dead... long live the Empire
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NYC_SKP
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
32. We expect you to voote for him. |
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:rofl:
I'll voote if you voote!
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
35. So not giving money is a problem for you |
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ok fine
SOme of us live by a moral code
And we will continue to live by it
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NYC_SKP
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
38. No, it's the "I'm mad and not going to donate" post that is neg energy, man. |
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It's taking me out of my happy place.
But it's cool if it makes you feel better.
Just wish you could explain how the post is in any way helpful to the cause, since it's not going to help defeat McCain.
As I said elsewhere, it's about timing and strategy.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
40. I am sorry for taking you out of your happy place |
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and it is only me... won't matter
See how many folks told him not to do it on his own website, if all of them don't donate... you can start to get worried
By the way... that may be multiplied by ten... marketing little tool, of how many people are not happy
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NYC_SKP
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
54. I'm just looking to Jan 09 and beyond. |
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I know you are, too. We've got strategy, not policy, differences.
If he doesn't comb through or gut the patriot act, none of us will be happy and he'll not be reelected.
If McCain is elected he won't even care.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #54 |
56. Sorry after the debacle of 2006 there is no more hope |
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sorry.
And this vote confirms it
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Bake
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Thu Jul-10-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
85. Obama's VOTE took me out of MY happy place |
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It should have done the same for you, if you were paying attention. Instead, it's the TALKING about his vote that screws your happy place.
That's pretty damn sad.
Bake
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Barack_America
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
39. No, your publicly bitching and moaning about our candidate... |
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And undermining his support is what I have a problem with, if I may be so blunt.
Ever think that you might be turning off potential volunteers and donors? Or is that your goal?
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
42. I am a former donor, and I was considering volunteering |
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has it occured to you that this vote has turned potential donors and volunteers off?
NOt my actions... I am not the US Senator voting on the well of the Senaate
Actions in the political arena by poltiicains, have consequences with voters. I am one voter
I am stating the consequences as far as they affect me
if few are affected this way... no problem... but if many are affected the same way, then you are talking a stratetic mistake
That is how politics works... whether it is your local race or presidential politics
My efforts are now firmly focussed on a LOCAL race for the US House...
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Barack_America
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
45. Not people who have volunteered in poor communities. |
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This isn't about all about Obama or even the Democratic party, this is about people who need help. People who can't wait "4 more years".
Try focusing on that.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
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You assume much.
As I said above, a lot of what we have springs for that imperfect document we are in the process of shreding as a people
I can't help people if they don't get it
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Barack_America
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
61. Hell yes, the people in my neighborhood deserve pity. |
mrreowwr_kittty
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Thu Jul-10-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
90. Poor people are such whiners, aren't they Mr. Gramm? nt |
CrispyQ
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Thu Jul-10-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
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Nadinbrzezinski's venting on a dem board isn't going to turn off potential volunteers & donors as much as Obama's vote on FISA will.
We aren't undermining Obama's support -- he is!!
I have read very few DUer's claim that they are going to vote for someone other than Obama or that they aren't going to vote at all. Most of us are going to vote for Obama no matter what. Isn't that the ultimate support? In the meantime, I'll send my political contributions to the ACLU & keep my time for myself.
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AtomicKitten
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message |
26. The FISA bill sucked ass, but it was a brilliant strategic move for Obama. |
nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
29. hate to disagree with you |
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standing up for something, peoople pay attention, caving in (feingold's words) is not
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AtomicKitten
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
63. the bill was going to pass anyway - by a long shot |
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Obama made the best possible move under the circumstances. The bonus was it inoculated hims against at least a handful of GOP mud.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #63 |
66. I can bet the mud will go anyways |
CrispyQ
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Thu Jul-10-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #63 |
91. It's time the dems took the "soft on terror" meme & ram it down the repubs throats. |
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On who's watch did 9/11 happen? Bush.
Are we any safer now than we were then? No.
Have our actions fueled terrorism around the globe? Yes.
Why the fuck do we keep running away from this issue? We continue to let the repubs frame the debate. It's time to change the rules & we don't need the White House to do it. We can do it now if the fucking dems would unite & stand for the democratic principles that our party once stood for. Obama had an excellent opportunity to set an example of how he will lead & he blew it by pandering to the right.
Pandering to the right hasn't worked for the dems in the past. Why does Obama think it will work for him now?
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PurityOfEssence
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message |
30. Harry Truman said it best: |
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"Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time."
Nobody really knows, but it seems that much of the support Obama's garnered has been from people disillusioned with politics-as-usual and the system itself. Not only does he run the risk of losing people, he runs the risk of them feeling betrayed and disillusioned as he continues to follow the very standard tactics of old politics: dodge controversy and seem to be "with" whatever audience is being courted at the moment.
He needs to stop this now or he'll blow it. The very idea of a stiff like McCain being this close after the dismal performance of his party speaks volumes.
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MarjorieG
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message |
34. maybe this issue has brought education, but the bill is better than the priginal as stop gap |
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When we first started the conversation with the country, they didn't get it. I don't know about now, especially with so much hand-wringing and hyperbole.
Obama's vote was not a tipping vote, and more of us need to tell others he will fix this and other abusive powers, as he's said. I'm sure of this.
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NattPang
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:17 PM
Response to Original message |
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The Patriot Act negotiated away our constitution back in 2001
but go ahead and blame one senator, and see if it will get you your constitutional rights back.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
43. Been fighting agaiunst this erosion since 2001 |
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you are right, this is one more chapter
DOes that mean we should just cancel it? Damn fucking piece of paper
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NattPang
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
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We can't bring knives to a gunfight and then slit our own collective throats.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #48 |
55. Let me try to 'splain this to you |
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we brought knives to the gunfight
We lost
President Bush, who is in the what 20 percenters popularity WON
Does that help?
The lame duck President, with the lowest popularity since Nixon... just got what he wanted
So tell me exactly who brought the howitzers here and who brought the folding knives?
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NattPang
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #55 |
59. It isn't about the 20 percent |
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You wanted to win the battle, But I'm here to win the war.
Your rights were gone before this vote and were not going to be restored and so your rights are still gone now.
Obama's one vote would have done nothing but proved a principle to you. But this is bigger than you.
You see, my principle is winning. That is how we get our rights back. Anything short of that and your rights and mines are gone forever and ever more.
Fiengold clearly understands that.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #59 |
65. Sorry but the OTHER GUYS are winning the war |
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need more splaining?
And you my dear are the looser
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HughMoran
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:22 PM
Response to Original message |
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You're becomming very predictable - sorry to say...
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
44. I know that silly stupid bill of rights makes me predictable |
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after all I kind fell in love with it.
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HughMoran
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
53. Slam, blam hate bitter |
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I'm sick of this fucking shit.
You knew it was coming, it happened, and you act like you're FUCKING surprised!!
:eyes:
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #53 |
57. No, not surprised, try OUTRAGED |
HughMoran
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #57 |
60. Yes, I am too - but I'm not whining out loud about it |
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We can't stop giving money and attack our candidate 'till we damage him now - what the FUCK will that accomplish?
Be better than the politicians - we will revisit this horrible bill IF we don't give up.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #60 |
69. Try this, lines in sand |
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and what you call whining is what the founding fathers would expect of you, to stand up and go enough is enough
I must say it... they were right
What form of government?
A republic Ma'ma, if you can keep it
They were also right in saying that the death of the republic would come from parties
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berni_mccoy
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:28 PM
Response to Original message |
47. Keep Crying. It gives you so much credibility. |
nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
52. Ah yes from another lover of the consittuion |
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:sarcasm:
You guys are a riot tonight
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vaberella
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message |
62. I'm actually trying to figure out what constitutional rights you guys are fighting for?! |
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We lost that when the Patriot Act I and II was passed by the House (Obama didn't vote on them). Secondly, surprisingly enough even though the FISA is far from perfect it gave us some rights that the Patriot Act bloody took away.
But this drama won't end.
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nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #62 |
68. Try readying the fourth ammendment |
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Edited on Wed Jul-09-08 11:21 PM by nadinbrzezinski
On edit, is this the new talking point?
LAME
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slinkerwink
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message |
64. Waaah. Waaah. Must Not Criticize Other Senators. Must Not Criticize McCain. |
nadinbrzezinski
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #64 |
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and is even more despicable but I can already see the commercials
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liberacci
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Wed Jul-09-08 11:36 PM
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Time will tell. This may have hurt Obama, or maybe not.
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BigBearJohn
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Thu Jul-10-08 03:52 AM
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71. You're a brave man to post all of this. I happen to agree with you. |
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I was just thinking ...
After 8 years of eating shit..
even piss starts to taste good.
(it's late... forgive me)
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Occam Bandage
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Thu Jul-10-08 03:55 AM
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72. It's "brave" to post the same shit everyone else does? The Obamabashers are in the majority here. |
BigBearJohn
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Thu Jul-10-08 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #72 |
73. It is NOT the same SHIT. Standing FOR the constitution is not SHIT |
Occam Bandage
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Thu Jul-10-08 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #73 |
75. Great. Nobody here is standing against the Constitution. |
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If you can tell me how a Senate bill supersedes or alters the Constitution, I'd be very interested.
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Selatius
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Thu Jul-10-08 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #72 |
74. When did wanting to protect the 4th Amendment turn into Obama bashing????????? nt |
Occam Bandage
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Thu Jul-10-08 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
76. When out of 100 Senators and 435 Representatives, the Junior Senator from IL became the target |
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of 99% of the outrage here.
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Selatius
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Thu Jul-10-08 04:41 AM
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77. Well, I can personally assure you that I targeted all of Congress. As far as Obama? Well... |
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all he did was just add more disappointment on top of a mountain of disappointment. They're a bunch of cowards.
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FredfromSpace
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Thu Jul-10-08 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #76 |
78. I dunno. I read somewhere that he was the presidential nominee |
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And that he promised he would filibuster the bill it it had Telecom immunity.
Could that have been a factor? :shrug:
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nadinbrzezinski
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Thu Jul-10-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #74 |
82. when it became our bitch doing it |
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party loyalists are no different from party to party
It is a sports mentality for them
For some of us the country comes well ahead of party
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mod mom
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Thu Jul-10-08 08:07 AM
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79. I agree full heartedly. The constitution is NOT up for negotiation! |
indepat
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Thu Jul-10-08 09:38 AM
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80. Fuck hoover and fuck everyone who would negotiate the Constitution for they truly are the |
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enemies within. Thankfully, all Supremes who are not too enemies within will eventually strike down all unconstitutional portions of this FISA fuck over. May there be at least five Supremes who are not also enemies within. :D
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polichick
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Thu Jul-10-08 11:32 AM
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84. They sold out to fear, and if enough people are sick of fear it could backfire. |
mod mom
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Thu Jul-10-08 04:00 PM
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86. What if we have ANOTHER STOLEN ELECTION then the Dems have given more power to the neocons. |
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Just saying...it's not like we haven't had any election surprises before and the media is already pushing the reluctant Hillary voters.
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Jeff In Milwaukee
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Thu Jul-10-08 04:12 PM
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87. The Constitution is the PRODUCT of negotiation |
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I swear the average IQ of DU has dropped about 50 points in the last six months.
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Alexander
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Thu Jul-10-08 06:00 PM
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89. You should listen to Feingold and support Obama. That's what he's doing. |
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And nobody fought harder against this bill than Feingold. Not even you.
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cbc5g
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Thu Jul-10-08 06:11 PM
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92. You don't negotiate the Constution huh? |
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Edited on Thu Jul-10-08 06:12 PM by cbc5g
I wonder where you and your purist friends were when Obama was for the D.C. gun ban which is clearly a violation of the 2nd Amendment. Or does the Constitution only matter in some cases? Be consistent if you are going to bitch, please.
We have a Supreme Court which will be decided if McCain is elected. So quit your whining, whiner, and move on.
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Duder
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Thu Jul-10-08 06:15 PM
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93. I'm glad someone negotiated the Constitution |
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I'd hate to be stuck with the original.
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Wed Apr 17th 2024, 02:34 PM
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