Bittergate vs. JesseGate ....

[redstate_democrat]

When Obama said his "bitter" comments in San Francisco about "white, working class" folks in rural America voting against their own self-interests due to guns, gays, religion, and antipathy towards people not like them, and generally participating in self-destructive or immoral behavior, Obama took a bunch of crap about it from the media and many people in those same communities. They could not handle having the mirror placed before them. Even Hillary jumped on the bandwagon. Even Bill Clinton said that Obama was acting "better than thou" and "talking down" to poor, rural white folks in places like West Virginia.

Obama's statements were not meant for wide public consumption. Jesse Jackson's statements weren't either.

Obama took so much heat for his statements, the assumption was that what he said about white folks HAD to be wrong and misguided. He had to do a lot of explaining and such for that.

Now, these same people don't see why any black person would be concerned about the preachifying Obama does in black churches regarding morality and parenting. Just as Jesse Jackson said in his statements, morality issues aren't the sole cause of some of the problems in the black community, so why stop there?

You have a lot of white media figures seemingly rejoicing over Obama's statement towards Jesse Jackson. The bottom line seems to be that it would help Obama with the same people who were offended by his "bitter" comments. So, it's okay when Obama talks about Black people's problems, but when it comes to their own house, they have a big problem with it.

I don't think this whole thing helps any of us, but the hypocrisy of it is astounding.

[frogcycle]

1. If it swings some of the close-minded closet racists

to hold their noses and vote for Obama...

I'LL TAKE IT!

[redstate_democrat]

2. I won't take it. ... not at the expense of the dignity of the black community.

I refuse to allow any politician to scapegoat an entire community to get the "racist" vote. Wasn't that what Hillary and Bill were
accused of doing?

Ummm Hmmm.

[Connie_Corleone]

5. There was no scapegoating of the black community.

Why are people acting like black people are having a fit over what Obama said? He gets standing ovations when he mentions personal responsibility. I haven't heard anyone criticizing Obama over his Father's Day speech. I certainly wasn't offended.

And Obama does talk about government's role regarding education and jobs. So, I don't know what Jackson is talking about.

[redstate_democrat]

6. Calm down.

First of all, I was NOT referring to his speech on Fatherhood with the "Scapegoat" remark. The previous poster mentioned that if thise Jesse Jackson situation makes racist voters move to Obama, then they were all for it.

If this is a manufactured "sister souljah" moment, that could be bad for Obama because the appearance would be that he is creating situations for him to distance himself away from black folks or black concerns. That is what I call scapegoating. That is what I said I could not be down with. If the only way Obama can draw these racist voters is for him to become Ward Connerly or Clarence Thomas, I can't be down with that.

[frogcycle]

7. I never meant I supported an intentional cynical scapegoating of anyone

Obama's remarks were valid and did not talk down or smear any group. All I meant was that given that Jackson's gaffe occurred, if the backlash from it inadvertently put Obama over the top in a few precincts by gaining some of the "low information voters" that we all know actually make the decision for us, I will happily take the result.

[marimour]

8. exactly. Black people thin JJ is "hating" on Obama with his comments and want him to shut up.

I'm in Atlanta and that was the topic of the day on one of the big black radio stations this morning. The consensus from all the callers I heard, and they had a lot of them, was that JJ was wrong and tasteless and he is just part of the old school blacks that are jealous of Obama's fast rise. The media is crazy if they think blacks are going to side with Jesse on this. We don't see Obama as speaking down to us, he is just saying among blacks, the things we way amongst ourselves anyway.

[endarkenment]

3. So what did Obama actually say about black men?

Do you have the exact quote? Oh you don't?

You have, like so many here, bought the narrative without even bothering to look at the sticker.


Here, two minutes on google:

"We need fathers to realize that responsibility does not end at conception.”

“Too many fathers are M.I.A, too many fathers are AWOL, missing from too many lives and too many homes,” Mr. Obama said, to a chorus of approving murmurs from the audience. “They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/16/us/politics/15cnd-obama.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

The corporate media is playing us for fools. And for good reason. We are fucking idiots. Won't get fooled again? Wanna bet?

[redstate_democrat]

4. Let me ask you this.

Where, besides black churches and conferences, has Barack Obama discussed fatherhood and the lack of it in some communities?

But if we are honest with ourselves, we’ll admit that what too many fathers also are is missing – missing from too many lives and too many homes. They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.

You and I know how true this is in the African-American community. We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled – doubled – since we were children. We know the statistics – that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home, or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gG5nFK

The statement above is taken from the text of his speech on Father's Day.

Obama's Father's Day Speech Urges Black Fathers To Be More Engaged In Raising Their Children

Barack Obama and his family celebrated Father's Day by attending Sunday services at the Apostolic Church of God on Chicago's South Side, where Obama gave a speech highly critical of absent black fathers. He urged them to remember their filial responsibilities and be more engaged in raising their children. Obama reminded the congregation of his own experience growing up without a father, saying that if he could be anything in life, he would be a good father to his daughters. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/15/obamas-fathers-day-speech_n_107220.html

So, as it turns out, Barack was speaking directly to and about Black fathers. Some would argue the venue was probably not the best venue to reach these absent fathers, as he was probably preaching to the choir and insulting the intelligence of many there who believed he was just politically posturing.

I don't know why you would say the media is playing me for a fool when I can understand English quite well. He was talking about parental responsibility in general but then quickly moved on to target AAs, making most of the speech about AAs and its absent fathers.

Personal responsibility is a given. A lot of racist white folks like a Pat Buchanan use the fact of single parent homes in the black community as THE SOLE reason blacks are behind white America socioeconomically. This view is too narrow and quite simply fails to recognize the role of certain outside forces which cause some of the problems in urban communities. A lack of jobs, lack of adequate education, health care issues, mental health issues, etc, are contributing factors. This is what Jesse Jackson was referring to. You can't blame all of black America's problems on MORALITY or lack there of, because that is not the case.

Just as you can't blame the problems in rural, white communities solely on morality issues. The fact that jobs are leaving the U.S. and it's getting harder and harder to support a family is not due to morality issues.

The underlying message people take away from single-issue or narrowly tailored lectures like this is that if only people just grabbed hold of their bootstraps and lifted themselves up and stopped complaining, everything will be perfect. It doesn't work like that. You have hard working, decent people living in the worst conditions. Is that their fault?