Three Options

[H2O Man]

It would be easy to dismiss all of the recent "concerns" about Barack Obama which clutter the progressive internet political discussion sites as a coordinated effort by non-democratic sources to disrupt party unity. And, without question, much of the "gosh, I feel helpless and hopeless" nonsense is just that. However, because two of my closest friends have expressed concerns about some of Obama's positions, I think it is worth posting three suggestions that I have advocated for their consideration.

I value the Bill of Rights. That means that not only do I value the right to a free press that is found in Amendment 1, but I recognize that it carries with it the responsibility to actually read, and thus be informed. This brings me to the three options for those who have sincere concerns about Barack Obama:

{1} Dreams from My Father, by Barack Obama.
{2} The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama.
{3} Obama: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell.

"The hand is the tool that has built man's mind; it, too, can refine it," Luther Standing Bear noted in his 1933 book "Land of the Spotted Eagle." In his 1977 classic "The Dragons of Eden," Carl Sagan wrote about the connections between the use of the human hand and the evolution of the brain.

I would suggest that there are significant differences in the consciousness of those who engage in perpetual hand-wringing, and those who use their hands to turn the pages of books. Read those three books, then take a look at your children, nieces, and nephews; look at the US Supreme Court; and then look closely at Barack Obama and John McCain. The answer should become obvious.

Thank you for your consideration.

H2Omen

[berni_mccoy]

1. K.&.R. Thanks H2O!

[brer cat]

dupe.

[brer cat]

2. I have read 1 & 2

When I look at my grandchildren, I vastly prefer President Obama to lead the next 8 years.

K&R

[The Traveler]

3. Now, H2O, you are being rational again.

You are trying to employ reason around here again ... and as Colbert suggests most of us have much more faith in knee jerk gut reactions, preferably energized with panic. :)

Even so, the FISA bill and the manner of its passing remain a significant concern to me. I ain't jiggy with it and I will not deny that the matter has re-awakened some of my early misgivings about Obama. I really wish he had taken a different position.

And while I thoroughly enjoyed references 1 and 2 above, the thoughtful prose of an author does not equate to the on-the-feet response of an active politician. Human beings are complex, the world is complex, and it should therefore surprise no one that when the rubber meets the road, Obama's actions might be somewhat at variance from the expectations the books inspire.

So yeah, I'm concerned and I think people are right to be concerned and to express that.

Life, however, is a series of choices and it is seldom that any of the available options meet our criteria for perfection. I do not have to agree with Obama on every issue to support him. I am convinced that electing Obama will help to at least put the brakes on America's decline. He might even be able to engineer a reversal of course and a retreat from the precipice. I call that progress, and it is vital we make progress over the next four years.

[H2O Man]

6. I think that

there have been a number of very good discussions on DU about the FISA concerns. That's a good thing, for indeed people should be examing Obama's position on that (and many other issues) closely, and discussing and even heatedly debating their thoughts on these matters. In my opinion, people taking different positions on the FISA issue have made valid and important points. I do think that they are in the minority, however.

We all remember LBJ's words from his June 7, 1966 speech: "No American, young or old, must ever be denied the right to dissent. No minority must be muzzled. Opinion and protest are the life breath of democracy -- even when it blows heavy.

"But I urge you never to dissent merely because someone asked you to or because someone else does. Please know why you protest. Know what it is you dissent from. And always try, when you do disagree, to offer a choice to the course that you disapprove. For dissent and protest must be the recourse of men who, in challenging the existing order, reason their way to a better order."

In the early democratic primary, I donated to all but one of our candidates. There came a point when I found one of Obama's actions reason for concern. Although it was not an issue that directly impacted me, it was something I recognize as very important. In a series of e-mails and phone calls with the Obama campaign, I explained why I was "suspending" my contributions to Obama. I did not close the door as far as further donations, but was firm in saying I needed further information on the stance Obama took on the specific issue. As I've noted on several other threads in the past, it took some time, but I got my answer.

I think there are advantages to taking a similar course of action when people have sincere concerns on positions that Obama takes. I do not think that there are advantages in trying to further democracy by simply closing doors.

[AspenRose]

4. Recommended!

K & R

[bridgit]

5. Yes...but neither is a substitute for practical knowledge, or even a practical frame *of* mind...

I've heard my husband use the phrase, "Hand one man a hammer and he'll build a house. Hand another man the same hammer, and he'll toss it through a antique window." Tools share components I suppose. In your example they are 'hands'. Or at least opposing thumbs, still...

When 'the page turners' get round to Why Bad Things Happen To Good People, they may be able to minister to 'the hand wringers' as to the put upon nature of both humanity and hair shirts in that many only think they have no options when it is instead the case that they do.

'The Torah tells us: "God created man in His image, in the image of God He created him" (Genesis 1:27). What does it mean that man was created in God's image? Human beings are finite and corporal. So how are we created in God's image?

Obviously the "image of God" is dealing with the non- physical part of us - the soul. Where do we get our drive for morality and meaning, our drive to make a difference? That drive is from the soul which is in the "image of God."

But there's more to it than that. Just as God has independent choice, so too does each human being have independent moral choice. The image of God means that we have the ability to choose.

Why is choice the essential issue of what makes us special? Because if you think about it, life only becomes meaningful because of our ability to choose. For example, the difference in being "programmed to love" and the choice to love, is precisely what makes love significant. Similarly, if I don't have the choice to do good, but am programmed to do good, then there's nothing meaningful about it. Whereas if I have the ability to do good or evil, then good becomes significant.

But it goes deeper still. For choice to be authentic, there have to be consequences. If every time I get in trouble, dad comes to bail me out, that's not really choice. Choice means consequences. Think about it. All of history - whether in our personal lives or from a global perspective - is based on the decisions that human beings have made - and the consequences that flowed from that.'

I'm not wringing my hands about anything Barack Obama is or has been doing of late or previous. And I am completely and utterly comfortable having attempted to council, even if to no avail, around & past the ignorance and nebulous 'god words' of the primary season and into states of mind that would be more helpful in the long term. So that, in a very real sense; now we are here regardless. Standing along side hand wringers requiring the services of page turners to talk them back down, smooth them out.

We work hard. My conscience is clear; clearer these days. And I am able to sleep with my dreams. I intend to build a house :)

[H2O Man]

8. "No one I think

is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low,
That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right.
That is I think it's not too bad. ....

Always no sometimes think it's me, but you know I know when it's a dream.
I think I know I mean "Yes," but it's all wrong.
That is I think I 'agree.'"
-- John Lennon; Strawberry Fields Forever*
(* with "disagree" changed to "agree")

John's song seems a good fit to me, because our national political scene is something of an asylum, and DU is a ward of the state of confusion. Certainly, all the roads to wisdom must first pass through valleys of chaos and doubt. But as individuals, and as groups, we don't have to stay in those valleys. There are times when we are at risk of becoming sticks in the mud, when it is good to have a friend who gives us a good push out of that muck and mire.

[bridgit]

16. k&r'd...

:kick:

[Bake]

7. So we read his books, and then what?

I guess we're just supposed to "trust" that he'll defend the Constitution to his last breath, even though he just voted to gut the fourth Amendment? Is that it?

Sorry, I don't trust ANYONE that much, not when his own ACTIONS cause such consternation. Who am I supposed to believe, anyway, Obama or my lying eyes?

But maybe you're right. I'll just read his puff pieces. That'll make me feel better about my phone calls being routed overseas just so Big Brother can listen in.

Bake

[H2O Man]

9. While I recognize that

a 4th option is to be snarky and hostile, I didn't include it, because I think it is of no value. Thank you for bringing it to our attention, though. Because I think it is important to try to make some good out of something like this, I'll take the opportunity.

I have not suggested that anyone should be pleased with Obama's position. Nor have I posted anywhere on DU (or anywhere else) that I approve of his vote. There is a reason why I have not.

The actions taken by the Bush-Cheney administration have indeed done severe damage to the Constitution. And neither house of Congress has taken any meaningful step to stop them. However, the actual gutting of the Constitution has been a long process, and one need look no further than President Clinton's working with the radical republicans to damage the Great Writ for evidence of that. In fact, what the Bush administration has done to habeas corpus was only possible in the context of being a second step, as closely related to what Bill Clinton did as any set of twins are related to each other. Indeed, both came from the same anti-democratic womb.

It would be easy to say to you that it is unlikely that the federal police agencies are interested in listening in on your conversations. But that would miss the far more important points. The Bush policies haven't begun the domestic spying that has been going on for a long time. Rather, it has established a higher level of coordination between local, state, and federal agencies, and it opens the door, in some cases, for what was once clearly defined as "illegally obtained evidence" to be allowed into court.

The technology that has allowed the type of "spying" pre-dates the Bush administration. It has been going on for years and years. Because I suggest that people read the three Obama books does not imply that I think this is fine and dandy. That seems a rather tortured interpretation, I think. Rather, I suggest reading those books so that people will not have the need to express the shock and "I can't believe it" that is becoming quite common as a substitute for insight on this forum.

At this time, I am unaware of any "third party" alternative to the 2008 election between Obama and McCain. Thus, I continue to advocate that progressive and liberal democrats work very hard at the grass roots level, to both elect more progressive and liberal democrats on the local, county, and state level, and also to increase our voice on the national level. It is a long and difficult process. But I find it holds greater promise than hand-wringing and whining.

[Me.]

15. In Past Threads, Before He was The Nominee

I had issues with some of the answers Obama gave to Constitutional questions. Wasn't happy with his answers and still believe there is going to have to be fine tuning on his part once he gets in office. Am not happy with the FISA bill which is, in my opinion, a further shredding of the Constitution. But he is not solely responsible for the passage of the bill nor do I think he will be the major factor in putting it right. The Congress, that legislative body who is responsible for protecting our rights, failed us. Willfully and deliberately for reasons that will never pass muster. The people will have to take this matter in hand and demand it be restored. The question is, will they? Or will they simply find it inconvenient that others are worried.

I saw McSame asked a question about viagra/birth control pills. To say his response was pitiful would be a compliment. For him to become president would be a travesty beyond words

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

10. I have been an Obama fan for a long time now

I just recently got audacity of hope and was pleasantly surprised by how honestly he lays out his positions and the thought process behind them. It really is way more revealing than I expected.

[Median Democrat]

14. Obama Is About As Consistent As You Get If You Read Up

Too many DUers rely on media spin or the most recent vote to define a candidate. However, Obama pretty much puts it on the table where he stands. He is not Bush in that he will cling to idealogy regardless of reality, and it seems like a lot of folks are looking for the liberal version of George Bush. I'm not. Bush was terrible leader, as well as being wrong on most everything.

Sadly, so much of this board is based on arguments over what is a "liberal" and how people advocating apathy or not voting based on the FISA vote while ignoring the numerous other issues where Obama has stood out as a very consistent progressive.

Few politicians have laid out their positions as clearly and consistently as Barack Obama. Yes, folks will protest, but these are the same folks who also proudly declare that they have not read Obama's voting record, and books. You can lead a horse to water, but you can make him drink.

[TahitiNut]

11. "True civilization lies in the dominance of self and not in the dominance of other men."

I am going to venture that the man who sat on the ground in his tipi meditating on life and its meaning, accepting the kinship of all creatures, and acknowledging unity with the universe of things was infusing into his being the true essence of civilization. And when native man left off this form of development, his humanization was retarded in growth.

Another most powerful agent that gave native man promise of developing into a true human was the responsibility accepted by parenthood. Mating among Lakotas was motivated, of course, by the same laws of attraction that motivate all beings; however, considerable thought was given by parents of both boy and girl to the choosing of mates. And a still greater advantage accrued to the race by the law of self-mastery which the young couple voluntarily placed upon themselves as soon as they discovered they were to become parents. Immediately, and for some time after, the sole thought of the parents was in preparing the child for life. And true civilization lies in the dominance of self and not in the dominance of other men.

http://www.novelguide.com/a/discover/dah_09/dah_09_04813.html

[H2O Man]

27. That is

one of my favorite quotes. The entire book is a great read. But that part sticks out.

[Awsi Dooger]

12. The Obama screw up correlation

Admittedly, I haven't been paying much attention the past month, other than beginning to re-evaluate statewide demographic trends.

Obama has been identified and I'm aligned for 8 years.

When I sampled this forum a couple of weeks ago, surprised to find distress with Obama, I immediately defaulted to evaluation of how serious it was. Rather than subjective elongated vague process, my method is simple, something I've used here and on other sites: scan for deflective threads from a handful of well respected posters. If they are absent, the transgressions don't amount to anything. That day two weeks ago, I checked the first page and well into the second. Nothing.

Today is a completely different story, very revealing. H20Man and NanceGreggs are prominent with threads, a fatherly one advising what to read, and a rambling one I couldn't really understand or capsulize.

It's my method of handicapping. No conclusion other than Obama really screwed up this time, and the fire trucks are needed.

We're going to win. Take it easy. I guess this is one benefit of not being overly enthused with Obama, always skeptical of him as an untested rapid vaulter. He hasn't plummeted in my eyes at all.

[H2O Man]

13. I'm not sure if

NanceGreggs will appreciate being called "fatherly," but I don't mind being called a rambler.

My suggestion that people read those three books is not an effort to convince anyone that he either did, or did not, make an error with the FISA position. Instead, it is because I think people should be aware of who Obama is, and what his likely positions will be.

And that is not an attempt to inject novocaine into the debates on the November elections. Quite the opposite: I was thinking, earlier this evening, about the books I've read. And I honestly think that, in one way or another, every book I've read in the past thirty years or more has been useful to me in taking some step -- small, medium, or large -- in the social/political activity that I have engaged in. I expect no less of others.

[Duder]

17. Good options

“The future will not belong to those who sit on the sidelines.
The future will not belong to the cynics.
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.” -Paul Wellstone

K & R

[Catherine Vincent]

18. K&R!

:hi:

[H2O Man]

28. Thanks!

One of the reasons I like DU is because I've always looked forward to reading your posts. I haven't seen you around here very often recently. I hope you are here during the general election season.

[Catherine Vincent]

33. Thank you, Patrick!

I hope you ignore the ones where I've let some annoying poster have it. Couldn't help it. You're one of the reasons I stick around DU. Without your posts, there would be no DU. :hi:

[nsd]

19. K & R

[mzmolly]

20. Delighted to recommend.

:kick:

:hi:

[NanceGreggs]

21. I don't know how I missed seeing this thread ...

... earlier, but here I am - better late than never.

I agree wholeheartedly with recommending that people read Obama's books in order to gain an insight into the man.

I just read "The Audacity of Hope", and it is a real glimpse into not only the way he thinks, but why he thinks the way he does. This is a very grounded man, who looks not only at the ideals we all hold dear, but the common-sense approaches that can turn valued principles into actionable solutions for what ails us as a nation.

K & R, as always.

[H2O Man]

29. Even before you

read this, your name had been mentioned. See post #12. I've never thought of you as "fatherly" before, but I am hoping that it is something that I can use to tease you in the future.

[NanceGreggs]

32. Sorry, but you have no ammunition for teasing ...

I just went back and read that post. YOU are the "fatherly one advising what to read" (i.e. Obama's books), while I am "the rambling one" that couldn't be understood!

Well - I take it back about the teasing. I guess you can always point to my "rambling ways" in future!

[Joe Fields]

22. I can multitask. I'm quite capable of reading and handwringing,

and I would say that my level of consciousness is fairly high. So please spare me the velvet gloved insults. I happen to believe that what you have put forth is a false argument. I am here every day, and I have only run across two people who have come right out and said they won't vote for Obama. If there are more, then I haven't noticed.

The "it's McCain or Obama" argument is rather silly. We all are quite aware of it. Does it mean we shouldn't cry foul when a conspiracy to take away our freedoms exists? (and I don't know what else you would call FISA, when Hoyer crafted it behind closed doors, Pelosi approved, and 35 million in telecom lobbying money was thrown at legislators)

As one poster noted, with some truth to it: "By the time the election rolls around, the only ones left to support the Bush administration will be Democrats." What a sad state of affairs.

And just because Obama is our nominee, I will not give his actions a pass, nor the other congressmen who were unduly influenced by the big telecoms. There is genuine anger within this party and justly so. Any attempts to stifle it will only create a worse situation.

[H2O Man]

25. Back so soon?

I agree that you are very capable of hand-wringing.

[Joe Fields]

30. You're smooth- I'll give you that.

And it is well known that you read a lot of books. You also quote a great many people. When do we get to hear your words, instead of other people's?

I've been surprised at a lot of things lately, but what has surprised me more than most things here, has been the willingness by some of the more respected members here, yourself included to turn a blind eye toward the democratic leadership. As long as they have a D by their name, that seems to be all that matters to you. What makes you any different than the 25 percenters? What is your distinction, if you are so willing to go along uncritically with those who collaborate with the Bush regime? Do you have a famous quote for that question?

[H2O Man]

31. I don't need

a quote, because you are: (a) making things up; or (b) far less intelligent than I thought. I have no need to pretend that you are any more satisfied with the democratic leadership in Washington, DC than I am, nor do I take seriously your attempts to say that I am more satisfied than you. Perhaps the more important difference between us is that I attempt to use every resource possible to make positive changes. That includes taking advantage of the wealth of information found in a lot of valuable books.

If you are near a tv, turn on MSNBC. Vince Bugliosi is coming on to discuss his new book. It is a tool that I will be using today, though not on DU.

[cliffordu]

23. Excellent post. K&R

[depakid]

24. Obama himself has said tro judge him on his actions

Which I think is sage advice- applied to any man or woman.

[H2O Man]

26. Indeed, he has.

As I've noted in several threads, as recently as in the recent Rolling Stone cover story, Obama told the interviewer that he recognizes that the internet will allow people to let him know when they believe he isn't doing the things they believe he has promised to do. I think the telephone is a good tool, too. In fact, I've told about my own experience in doing so.

One of the advantages, both for the Obama campaign and the progressive community, is that there is a record of who is actually supporting him with donations, and who is not. Although my donations were (and are) among the smaller ones, the campaign was responsive when I said I was not investing any more money in the campaign until my concerns had been addressed.

I think history provides us with an interesting model for progressive and liberal democrats, for when Obama is elected. As people like Ted Sorensen have noted, Obama reminds them of JFK. When President Kennedy was not doing the things that the civil rights movement expected, including a promised "stroke of a pen," black Americans put pressure on him. They reminded him that it was their votes that put him in the White House. They mailed him pens. When he was not responding in the manner they wanted, leaders such as Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., began to take actions with the goal of "creative tension." When Obama is in office, I fully expect that the progressive and liberal democrats will need to take similar actions.