we aren't electing a messiah, we are electing a president

[CreekDog]

i can think of multiple things FDR did that might be grounds for impeachment and certainly are examples of moral equivocation.

i can think of things Abraham Lincoln did, like taking 2 years to free slaves and then only freeing them in slave states.

do you realize that they decided not to boycott Montgomery Buses at first because the defendant, Colvin, was pregnant, so instead of standing up for her because it was right, they waited for the morally superior (at face value) Rosa Parks?

i'm not apologizing for those things, nor am i saying they don't matter.

what i'm saying is that as a voter now just as then, i face a cold, hard reality, that to make progress on the things i want, i may have to vote and strongly support candidates that are my best hope for getting us there (combination of electability and values and it takes both). there are going to be things i don't like about Obama, but so far, i don't see anything that rises to the level of what we saw with Lincoln or FDR and they were incredible supporters of our freedoms today --yet they were far, far from perfect.

keep perspective and proportion. always.

[ladjf]

1. I will be satisfied if Obama turns out to be reasonably honest, intelligent

and cares at least some about America and her people. That would be a huge improvement over what we now have.

[uponit7771]

5. EXACTLY!!!!

[Skittles]

16. with all due respect

don't let eight years of that fucking twit bush lower the bar for what you are satisfied for in a REAL president

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

19. Yep, that's what it boils down to.

I do think that Obama will exceed these expectations.

[PVnRT]

2. I don't want a messiah

I know I won't get it, I know he's not perfect, he's still light years better than McCain and pretty good candidate on his own.

Still, when I see/hear things I don't like with him, I'm going to mention it. I apologize if that's upsetting to certain DUers around here.

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. Mention it, discuss it, that's fine. That's what we're here for.

Stamping feet and screaming "IT'S THE END OF CIVILIZATION - I'M NEVER GOING TO VOTE AGAIN" is something else entirely.

THAT is what upsets the most of us. Not rational discussion.

[rg302200]

4. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus

Kennedy increased our presence in Vietnam, Woodrow Wilson caved in on the treaty of Versailles...none of our presidents were ever perfect but we can always be assured that they did what they did because they knew more than the voting population in terms of covert intelligence.

[uponit7771]

6. Good point

[jmondine]

9. Lincoln also green-lighted Sherman's March

And internment camps for Japanese-Americans occurred under FDR.

[DevonRex]

7. Thank you for saying what has to be said. K&R nt

[RandomKoolzip]

8. Well fuck that - I want a fucking messiah, goddamnit!!

:grr: :cry:

[jmondine]

10. It's all relative

Compared to Shrub Jr., a turnip looks like the messiah.

[grantcart]

11. and if we fail in electing him the loss will be incalcuable

[mrreowwr_kittty]

12. As woman who called into Jeff Farias on NovaM said yesterday

"If you're really that worried about this FISA bill you must lead a very privileged life." She went on to describe the many ways that poor black people have had their civil rights violated for decades, most recently with the so-called War On Drugs. I disagree with the FISA bill but her comment definitely put it in perspective for me.

[Skittles]

13. what the FUCK kind of BS is that?

it's actually POSSIBLE for some of us to dislike the FISA bill AND be concerned about CIVIL RIGHTS FOR MINORITIES.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

14. Well then why do the violations against minorities continue

While a bunch of mostly affluent white liberals piss and moan about FISA and claim they're not going to support Obama now? Why should they care, since they probably won't fare too badly under a McCain presidency? They'll have the satisfaction of knowing they "showed" the Democrats that they won't be taken lightly. Just like in 2000.

Fuck poor people and all the problems we have in the country now, right? Because of this one bill, Obama is just like McCain. No difference between them. Well, at least to the white liberals in their gated communities.

[Skittles]

15. how about you stop spinning

and start giving a shit about ALL transgressions?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

18. That's what I was asking you to do. nt

[azmouse]

17. From the hysteria on DU this week, you'd think every Dem pres was perfection.

and Obama will ruin that streak. He's still light-years above McBush.
I think we all understand that many here didn't like his vote but you all do realize the Reps will try everything to split us up. It's the only way they have a chance in hell of winning this year. So go ahead and play into their hands yet again.
And don't bitch when we have another disasterous Rep president.