OK. The YES vote sucked. Now what?

[endarkenment]

I am waiting for the realistic constructive suggestions on this issue that will result in a better outcome than the only path I see forward, which is to get over it and keep our focus on the november election and getting bush out and Obama in.

[az chela]

1. I just emailed barack and told him that I was tired of defending

him about FISA and that I have told people that they need to email him and tell him to make it one of his 1st priorities when he got in the white house to overturn the bill

[endarkenment]

2. I agree with that

but more to the point: he cannot do anything effective if he does not get into the white house, so pressuring Obama is secondary to getting him elected.

[MrCoffee]

8. He's a US Senator!

"he cannot do anything effective if he does not get into the white house"...when did he quit his day job?

[endarkenment]

9. I give up

you are all quite right. Obama should have gone down in flames over fisa, and put a symbolic gesture ahead of actually winning the presidential contest. Boy would we admire him then!

To answer your question: both McCain and Obama effectively quit their 'day jobs' when they became the presumptive nominee for president of their respective political parties. Duh.

[MrCoffee]

12. So their Senate actions are meaningless now?

That's really your position?

[endarkenment]

14. FISA was going to pass regardless of what Obama did.

Can we agree with that assumption? If not, please provide some evidence to the contrary.

As far as I know, all we are talking about here is a symbolic gesture by Obama. You asked if he should quit his 'day job'. I answered: his day job is running for president. What he does in the senate is secondary to that. He made a calculation that a symbolic vote against FISA was going to hurt him more in his presidential campaign than his vote for FISA. I can live with that calculation. We all should live with that calculation until november. Then we need to worry about what Obama does or does not do AFTER HE WINS THE ELECTION.

I know what McCain will be doing. It is that simple. I can hope that Obama will not be more of the same. I could be wrong about Obama. I am certain that I am not wrong about McCain.

[MrCoffee]

17. The Bill of Rights is more than a factor in a political equation

This mindset is what is going to lose this election for us. Calculating what will attract the most center/leftish independents is going to open Obama up to the same sneaky Republican crap attacks they used against Kerry. They can't legitimately attack our principles, but they can attack our derivation from those principles. Why do we keep pointing that gun right at our own temples for them?

A strong statement of liberal, Democratic principles, (on edit: and a vote in favor of the rule of law) however, would go quite a long way toward demonstrating to the general electorate what the real difference is between Sen. Obama and McSame.

I think this was a terrible move both politically and legislatively.

[endarkenment]

18. legislatively it made no difference

The political calculation's correctness is undecided.

I agree with the principle that he should have voted against this bill. I accept that the campaign calculated that doing so would hurt them more than help them. I can weigh that against the correctness of the symbolic gesture of a no vote and come up with: november is more important to me than a symbolic gesture. I hope that you and the rest of the outraged here can get over it and refocus on getting Obama elected. To not do so would be stupid beyond comprehension.

[MrCoffee]

19. You keep calling it a symbolic gesture...I see it as the recorded vote of a US Senator

I know we have different opinions of what that means at this point, but I still view it that way.

Thank you for the first civil discussion on this issue that I've had in here. I do appreciate it! :hi:

[endarkenment]

20. The legislation was going to pass regardless of Obama's vote.

So yes of course his vote is a recorded vote of a US Senator, but what it was not was a determining factor in the outcome of the senate's vote on the fisa bill. The bill was going through regardless of what Obama did. That is what I mean by a 'symbolic gesture'.

[Marrah_G]

7. Why would he overturn something he just voted for?

[dansolo]

21. Because he could pass something better.

Can't any retroactive immunity be overturned by new legislation? When Obama becomes president, he could reshape the FISA legislation, and resubmit it to Congress.

[Sherman A1]

3. Here is my plan

I will vote a straight Democratic ticket in November so Obama will get my vote.

I will send what would have been my small contribution to the ACLU to fight this thing in the courts.

I can't think of anything else to do.

[az chela]

5. That is a great plsn.I donated last night

Thanks for posting

[nadinbrzezinski]

That's exactly where our allocated political donation moneys

went to last night the ACLU

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. That's exactly where our allocated political donation moneys

went to last night the ACLU

[BurtWorm]

4. Bush is out no matter what.

The object should be to get Bushism out. I don't see how the FISA vote gets us closer to that.

[endarkenment]

6. I see how McCain gets us further away.

[DevonRex]

10. Yes. Apparently that fact hasn't quite dawned on some people, tho. nt

[endarkenment]

11. well it seems that makes a grand total of two of us

while I thought the fisa vote sucked, what sucks worse is the apparent willingness of the DU to commit fratricide over this.

Thanks for a lonely voice of support.

[DevonRex]

13. You're quite welcome. I don't like FISA but it's a done deal.

And one thing for sure it can't be fixed with McCain in the White House. He'll veto anything that might take immunity out. Just like Dubya.

[DevonRex]

16. Oh yeah, Rec'd. nt