How can I refute the claim of cynical people who say there isn't a dime's worth

[WCGreen]

of difference between the two party's when most of the leading figures in our party take such a cavalier attitude toward the fourth amendment?

How can I refute these naysayers when the congressional wing of our party continues to enable the president who is loathed by almost 3/4 of the people?

How can I refute anyone who looks at me and says your party has no balls, the republicans Impeached your president over a blow job and you guys can't even get it up after the War, the mishandling of the economy, the politicization of the government and the Katrina disaster?

(It's a good thing they didn't have to vote up or down on Social Security. Who knows what they would have done there.)

What can I say to them?

Well there is Kucinich and Conyers and Franks and occasionally Rangle.

And Dodd and Feingold and Brown and occasionally Biden.

The well runs pretty dry after that.

At least to the people somewhat aware of politics.

By the way, that very same whisper campaign that has been going on for decades now. The one that repeats that there isn't a dime's worth between the two party's? Guess what, that is nothing more than a right wing canard. I guess they figure if your choice is between two self serving bastards you might as well choose the one who openly flaunts it. No disappointment there.

It hasn't been a good week.

Sure, Obama scored some point with the general population but it was more about McCain being a butt-head rather than anything coming significant from our presumptive leader.

It's hot. I can't breathe very well. The cats have fleas and I feel so wretchedly ashamed of my party's leadership. It's a good thing I gave up the alcohol a couple of decades ago. If I was still a newby recoverer, I might be tempted to jump off the wagon and get a snoot full.

Peace out.

[Zodiak]

1. I am very plesed about McCain's gaffes

They did deflect the FISA issue quite a bit, and that is a good thing.

Obama needs to win, and I feared that the FISA blunder would hurt him. I knew what disappointment that would garner with certain elements of his supporters.

McCain and his surrogates can just keep 'em coming as far as I'm concerned. I hope they call us Americans cry-baby surrender-monkeys, next.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. I don't see FISA as an issue McCain will raise. I see it more as the grassroots

are feeling betrayed and less than enthusiastic to knock on doors or make phone calls, kind of like WC is talking about.

I know that during the primaries, my "Obama story" (why i support Obama) relied heavily on the grassroots nature of the campaign and that I thought as a result the grassroots might actually have a seat at the table finally after 30 years or so.

For me, Obama's FISA switch ended that erroneous assumption. Given that Move-on, the ACLU, Democracy for America, and the largest single group over at Obama's own web site with 23,000+ members were all doing grassroots lobbying to get Obama to honor his pledge to us, and he just blew us off, I don't see that it's likely that the grassroots will have a seat at the table in an Obama administration. It seems much more likely that a telecom lobbyist like Tom Daschle, who is the Obama campaign co-chair, will have more say than half a million grassroots supporters of Senator Obama.

That's why I relate to what WC said. I don't know what to say at the doors or on the phones to people. I can't lie and say the people will have a say with Obama, because that doesn't look very likely, unless the people are Tom Daschle.

I found it ironic that the Obama campaign announced on the day the FISA bill was passed by the Republicans and the minority of Democrats who joined the Republicans that the Obama campaign was inviting people to give input on the Democratic Platform.

This after people and organizations that represent half a million Americans couldn't get Obama to honor a pledge. My first thought was, "They must think we are really stupid. Who would fall for that?"

[stray cat]

2. Al Gore versus George Bush; John Kerry versus George Bush

Don't tell me there is no difference after the last 8 years.

[WCGreen]

3. The people don't feel that way...

Look, I'm an accountant and most of the people I know are talk politics with are middle of the road people concerned about their investments, their kids being able to afford college and their jobs. And to most married people, choice isn't all that important of an issue, that is until one of their kids gets into "trouble."

It's only been recent that most of my clients and friends started to think about the environment. When I was treasurer of our local democratic party here in Cleveland, I couldn't even get the majority of people to come down on the side of recycling.

Let's face it, the issues that defined the two party's over the last few decades have favored the GOP.

That's why I am disappointed in the recent behavior of our leadership.

As my one client said, look at all the shit this guy (Bush) has pulled and you guys can't impeach him?



You have to remember most American voters aren't versed in political nuance; incremental differences between the party's don't matter that much.

The other day I kidded about a simple anti-slogan that would be a way to really define the GOP. We haven't been able to come up with some defining difference that will resonate in four words or less.

Maybe it's because we feel the need to explain too much.

I don't know.

[stray cat]

4. I sincerely doubt Al Gore would have invaded Iraq.

If he followed Clinton's lead we would still have a surplus, SS would be in a lock box and the rich would not have gotten richer at the expense of everyone else. Al Gore would not have had to had a video created to know NO needed help after Katrina. However, you are right some people may not know an Al Gore presidency would have been different.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. It was a Democratic Controlled Senate that voted to go to war in Iraq. And a

majority of the Senate Democrats voted for war.

[WCGreen]

12. And that is the point...

We have an advantage over most people in that we don't vote on gut feelings but with passionate belief in a cause.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Shh you are also fighting the media... guess what meme was rolled out

today?

You got it, they are not that different from each other.

[KoKo]

5. I honestly don't know. When Democratic Candidates move to the Right to Bush/McSame...where is there

any "light of difference in the "crack in the wall" between them? :shrug: I know it gets the Indies on Board...but what does it lose in the "base supporters."

I wish I knew ...I guess that it will be seen in the November elections. The "difference." :shrug:

[MoonRiver]

7. I don't know because I've given up.

:hug:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. A most excellent rant!

I don't have any answers either...

I know there are "theoretical" differences, but to the average American, those are invisible...

Don't stop breathing, or ranting...

We need you.

K&R

:patriot:

[Fleshdancer]

9. In the battle between weak and wrong, choose the weak and make them strong.

I don't know many people who are completely happy with the Democratic Party right now, but I keep going because I'm confident my party can and will improve over the next 4 years. It will never be perfect of course, but that's what I like about being a Democrat...we're never comfortable so we constantly seek improvement.

When someone tells me the two parties are the same, 9 times out of 10 it's because they didn't do their homework and they use the illusion of apathy to hide their ignorance. The best thing to do in this situation is to call them on it. When they begin to argue, quiz them on the various positions until they concede that there is a difference. The last person to say this crap to me finally registered to vote for the first time in 2004 and has already decided to vote for Obama this year.

[WCGreen]

13. Of course you are right...

But most people won't take the time to even listen unless they know you or are willing to listen.