Um...this New Yorker Story Paints Obama as a Cold, Calculating, Cut Throat Typical Politician

[redstate_democrat]

The story left me with my mouth wide open. I knew Chicago politics was fierce, but this story paints Obama as some kind of self-absorbed, cut throat leech whose only desire was to rise to the next political level, regardless of who he had to step on to get there. The stories they tell from the different people show an arrogant person. They show him as someone who accumulates people for his immediate and long term needs, and then when he is finished with them, kicks them off the moving bus. I did NOT like this article. More importantly, the cover art didn't even go with the article. The cover art dealt with the smears and the article didn't even address it. What the hell?

[Muttocracy]

1. if the article isn't even about the smears, that makes the cover even worse. nt

[redstate_democrat]

4. Have you read this article? It is unbelievable.

And no, the story didn't even make one mention about the smears that have gone around. It is absolutely bizarre. The WHOLE THING was like a hit piece, from the cover to the article.

[Raine1967]

17. can you give a Link?

I would like to see it for myself.

[redstate_democrat]

20. Here it is.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=1

[Raine1967]

32. Thank you.

It is confirming my initial thought... this is not a satirical cover, nor a very peice for obama.
I can handle it being *not* friendly, I can... What I cannot tolerate is the cover. it is misleading and has nothing to do with the article.

Nothing. What it will do is welcome many Right wingers who sit in Doctor's offices to pick it up, read it. You think they will come away feeling beter about Barack?


I dunno... all I know is that it isn't answering any of the questions the cover art asks.

And trust me, that cover asks a LOT of questions. not cool at all.

[HousePainter]

90. Nyer covers don't ever reference any stories inside

[Pirate Smile]

18. No smears are debunked in the article in any way.

[redstate_democrat]

38. It leaves it as a totally OPEN question.

And, it sort of kind of lends a hint of credibility to the cover in this way: they painted Obama as someone without any principles basically, someone OTHER than the person he has portrayed himself as during this campaign. The reader that hasn't been following him will then say, well, if he is so calculating and sneaky, maybe we can't totally believe him when he says none of this stuff is true.

They left the cover as an OPEN QUESTION!!! What is the reader supposed to determine about the cover after reading that article? On its face it looks like satire, but there could be more sinister, sneaky, motives behind it.

[bunkerbuster1]

76. erm...why should they be?

I've just skimmed this very long story so I'm not quite ready to declare it a hit-piece, but it's not really the New Yorker's job to address stupid viral emails that the vast majority of their readership wouldn't believe in the first place.

[jasmine621]

102. Talk to the pols in Chicago.

They know he is smart, calulating, and cold-blooded when it come to politics.

[patrice]

2. The Machine fights back!

That content is identical to what's being pumped through RW connections of all kinds. I've heard people repeating the kinds of things they are being told about Obama "the Opportunist" extrordinaire.

[jonnyblitz]

3. sounds about what i always suspected.

of course i will vote for him, he IS a tad bit better than McCain. :D

[seaglass]

69. no kidding, why is this stuff surprising?

obligatory: yes I am voting for Obama in Nov., there is NO other choice. And I actually think Obama is a LOT better than McCain.

[mucifer]

5. Everyone should read this article it's creepy. He does seem to be very intelligent

but also opportunistic. He did move up very quickly through the ranks.

[redstate_democrat]

8. I'm starting to think that Obama is an even better politician than Bill Clinton!

UNBELIEVABLE THIS GUY!

[thewiseguy]

6. But but you should read the article!

:sarcasm:

[BuyingThyme]

7. How dare they paint him as someone who accumulates people for his immediate and long term needs,

and then when he is finished with them, kicks them off the moving bus!

Oh, wait. That's excatly what he did to me on Wednesday and Thursday.

It looks like the New Yorker is right again.

[Colobo]

9. ?????????????

[thewiseguy]

10. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QueenOfCalifornia]

77. ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡

[redstate_democrat]

11. What are you talking about that is what he did to you on Wednesday and Thursday?

[BuyingThyme]

16. He announced his support for the unitary executive philosophy

as championed by Samuel Alito, Dick Cheney, and Richard Nixon.

[Political Heretic]

92. You are full of shit.

[BuyingThyme]

98. I speak truth. Truth makes simple people call names.

[Political Heretic]

113. No. You speak bullshit. No evidence. No links. Nothing. Either supply a link or find a new home

[mrreowwr_kittty]

12. Wow, for someone kicked off a bus you seem to be typing okay. nt

[BuyingThyme]

21. I landed on my feet.

[yardwork]

35. LOL!

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

37. Back when some other people said they felt thrown under the bus

You got off the bus, kicked us around some more, and then got back on.

Methinks you protest too much about this latest issue. Maybe you just like complaining.

[BuyingThyme]

45. To what are you referring?

[yardwork]

71. Darling, I think you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[BuyingThyme]

85. Why don't you just admit that you're making things up instead

of attacking honest people.

Don't you understand how easy it is for honest people like me to win debates against dishonest people like you?

[TwilightGardener]

13. *GASP*!!! Oh my stars and heavens, you mean a guy who's mixed-race and started

life with no big advantages, who's about to become President at a young age, is a CUTTHROAT POLITICIAN???? You've got to be shitting me. That's what I like about him. He's no creampuff, and he didn't get to where he is by being a Boy Scout.

[Muttocracy]

15. If he was a creampuff, he'd be called that by the media with ridicule, as for McCain

he ain't a creampuff either!

[redstate_democrat]

19. Unfortunately, this article doesn't paint him as a kind of honorable tough dealing pol

it paints him as a slimy leech who latches on to whatever is moving in the best direction on a given day. That is NOT the type of reputation you want to have. Some politicians are respected for their cut throat-ness and some are NOT. They painted him as the kind that is not.

[TwilightGardener]

22. I read parts of it, and I'm not seeing what you are. Oh well, vote for McCrazy.

He made it through politics the honorable way--riding daddy's legacy, marrying into wealth, getting into bed with lobbyists, etc.

[redstate_democrat]

23. If you haven't read the entire article, why the hell are you trying to challenge me on the merits

of my complaint? What about my OP makes you think voting for McCain is even an option? Why don't you first READ all 15 pages and then get back at me as to the quality and nature of the article. Right now, you're talking about something you know absolutely nothing about.

BYE and that way -------> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=1

[Pirate Smile]

36. I read the entire article and while I certainly don't think the author was giving Obama the benefit

of the doubt on anything, I actually like the fact that he is a tough-assed customer as a politician.

I think a lot of Clinton supporters were worried he wasn't tough enough. Remember the crap about Edwards thinking he wasn't tough enough or was too nice.

I like this: "Instead of arriving in Springfield as the consensus candidate of his district, Obama was regarded as a troublemaker. “He had created some enemies,” Emil Jones, who in 2003 became president of the Illinois Senate, said. Burns described the fallout of the Obama-Palmer race this way: “It established a reputation that ‘you’re not going to punk me, you’re not going to roll me over, you’re not going to jam me.’"

I even liked this: "Before Nottage broke them up, Obama, who had learned to box from his Indonesian stepfather, supposedly told Hendon, “I’m going to kick your ass!”

Obambi be gone.

You don't get this far without being a tough customer - especially this fast. People want a significant amount of toughness in a President too.

I don't know. I read the article but I already knew about the Alice Palmer stuff and nothing else bothered me.

edit to add because I don't think it was clear - the Alice Palmer stuff doesn't bother me either.

[redstate_democrat]

41. I actually enjoyed that part. Incidently, both of those passages came right after the other, in the

same section. The whole thing, in its totality, didn't paint a picture of the Obama right now.

[Eyes_wide_ open]

67. and even Alice Palmer said ...

“Anyone who enters Chicago politics and can’t take the rough and tumble shouldn’t be there. Losing the seat was just that—not the end of the world.”


I liked the article myself, although as you said it sure didn't cut BO any slack. It gave me a better understanding of the man, and I don't think it hurts his image, except to those who view him with stars in their eyes.

[Beacool]

119. Maybe so, but it's interesting that she supported Hillary and not Obama.

:eyes:

[TwilightGardener]

40. OK, just for YOU, I skimmed the entire article. And I don't see a problem.

He sounds smart, ambitious, calculating, opportunistic, vain, cutthroat--in short, like pretty much every successful politician who makes it on the big stage. That's how he defeated the Clintons. He didn't didn't do it by being polite and naive and laid-back and humble. I have even more confidence in him now, that he can take on the GOP machine and win--he's got what it takes.

[demokatgurrl]

111. Exactly! In a Republican, cut-throatedness is

expected, approved of, even honored. Dems are supposed to bend over and take it.
And the worst thing is.... THEY DO!!!!!!

[AllentownJake]

24. Politics is a tough game

I can't believe people are surprised that Obama isn't this cream puff who rose to the top of the heap by being a nice guy all the time.

BTW anyone who wants or thinks that they should be President is arrogant. Humble people don't aspire for that job.

[redstate_democrat]

26. Yes, I guess arrogance is sort of expected.

But the New Yorker leaves a different taste in your mouth that is more sour than arrogance. Arrogance is probably the most endearing character trait, along with his earlier naivety, that they ascribe to him. There is something else riding just beneath the surface of this story...an ongoing theme, connecting each part of his life, from the "appealing to conservatives" on his Law Review selection board to get selected as president of the Law Review, to the last line of him predicting that he would become a political rock star at the 2004 Dem Convention and remarking that his speech was "pretty good", to the overall narrative of him being very opportunistic and passive aggressive in some respects.

[MarjorieG]

39. Not having read it, are they friends, or distant observers, ax to grind?

Clinton lacked discipline, and a different ethical underpinning. Obama comes from finer stock, I think, and he's very focused.

No Drama Obama vs. an emotionally messy Bill.

I think at the end of selling anyone on a campaign to strangers, all of it seems contrived, but I think Obama's goals and sympathies are real. He sees something in himself, his people skills, that can be put to good service.

Chicagoan Axelrod was not going to become involved in 08 uless Obama ran. Dick Durbin saw something, and both good people.

I need to read it, but he/she may have had an agenda to puncture the star. Who's the author?

[redstate_democrat]

42. Ryan Lizza is the author.

This person interviewed people who Obama is still friends with, people who are involved in the campaign, and people who helped him along in Chicago politics. The author wove in these stories to create a certain kind of picture, which is probably not THE picture in reality.

[MarjorieG]

49. Seems like the conclusion reached first, and wove together what was needed to that end.

Took rhetorical license, with an eye of making something that would stand out.

[AllentownJake]

52. Isn't that how most articles are written these days

:rofl:

[AllentownJake]

43. He's a human being

I don't know him personally but I can say that a fair number of the things that they are saying could be said about most people who've had any kind of success in life.

I'm not looking for a messiah, I'm looking for intelligence, competence, and someone for the most part shares my views.

[Divine Discontent]

25. WAIT?????!!!

Seriously, the article has NOTHING to do with the email and TV smears by FAUX and Rush, etc????

It, in effect, talks about AMBITION?

OH for f*ck sake, they've really got no reason putting that cover on now - oh FUCK it, I'll type the full word (go for the gusto as the former first lady in, "My Fellow Americans" says!)

Hello, New Yorker apologists, any great thoughts now?

[redstate_democrat]

Aint that something? I was expecting to read about the trajectory of his campaign and the smears

but no. It was ALL about his time in Chicago. They even painted Axelrod as some kind of shadowy figure, even as an opportunist himself in some respects.

Why the hell did they create this cover? It's like the guy who made the cover didn't even read the article.

[cbc5g]

31. I'm starting to wonder about their motives

[Raine1967]

34. He didn't... I would bet money on that.

This is an irresponsible editorial choice. A bad one at that.

I would bet any amount of money the artist was either told what to to with out reading the article, OR, it was submitted FAR earlier and they were told 'we reserve the right to use it for future use'.
This piece of art was NOT done on the basis of what the artist read... No way, no how.

[Divine Discontent]

44. sounds extremely possible - they must have thought 'we need a great cover' for this big article

about him, that will grab attention! what a bunch of goofballs... this does NOTHING positive for Obama, and now, the article simply talks about his climb to getting to the top, at best. What I have noticed, there's one or two people on here that are so supportive of the 'cartoon' that I am placing them on ignore, as I doubt their Democratic sincerity. This was a horrible hit-decision by someone at the NYer, if the article about Obama didn't reflect the HIGHLY controversial cover!

More at --- www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[HousePainter]

91. The NYer covers never reference any articles inside

They stand alone. If you had ever read the magazine before you would know that.

[Zookeeper]

101. This controversy is making me aware...

of how many people don't read the New Yorker. You're right; the cover doesn't support the articles like a Time or Newsweek cover.

This cover was very much in keeping with the tone of their political covers, except it wasn't making fun of the political figures (the Obamas), it was ridiculing the hatemongers who spread silly rumors about them.

The level of hysteria about this is distressing on my first visit back to DU for months. I had dearly hoped cooler heads had prevailed by now. :(

(To those ready to flame me: I've been reading the threads on the subject, here and on the NYTimes blogs, so I've probably already read whatever it is you have to say.)

[cbc5g]

27. Well, did we really expect a political nice guy to get to where he is in American politics?

Politics is rough here and you have to be rough to win or others will take advantage of you and destroy you. It's sad, but thats our system.


He can win and what we Democrats desperately need is someone who can win against the Rovian trash smear and burn politics. We can't let the Supreme Court go to the RW for a generation.

[redstate_democrat]

30. If I was an adviser in McCain's camp and I read this story, I would shit my pants.

Seriously. If this shit is true, they have a big ass problem on top of all of the other problems they have.

[tishaLA]

28. I think we read different articles

Yes, it paints him as calculating, circumspect, pragmatic, and occasionally self-adulating. But the important thing it showed me was his ability to learn and to grow, to use the system effectively, and to fight like hell when necessary.

I want a nominee who fights like hell and I expect anyone who runs for president to have a healthy ego. It struck me as an amazing piece of journalism precisely because it neither deified nor demonized him. It painted a portrait or a complex, flawed, and driven politician.

[Eyes_wide_ open]

68. Ding ding ding

Well said

[bunkerbuster1]

78. I would like folks posting here to acknowledge whether they've ever read the NYer before...

It'd be kinda nice to know.

Because the magazine doesn't tend to kiss anyone's ass. I didn't expect them to kiss Obama's either.

[woolldog]

95. I agree with that.

I liked the article and thought it makes Obama look bad ass. I already knew he was calculating, ambitious, and opportunistic. I don't think those are negative qualities.

[Adelante]

114. That was my take

It was a tough piece on a tough man in a tough business. Fascinating reading all the way.

[smalll]

29. This is the final straw!!! We ALL need to do a mass burning of any Stuart Little, Charlotte's Web,

or Elements of Style books, videos, DVDs or books-on-tape we own. We all need to pledge from now on when we play Monopoly to NEVER buy New York Avenue, and never to watch Friends or Sex In The City again. Any Mets or Yankees fans must immediately pick new teams to root for. Any clam chowder we eat hencefeorth must be creamy rather than red.

And things were looking so good for Obama up until now! And to lose a whole election on something like this, and so early too, before we even get to the conventions! This is all just too sad for words.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saracat]

46. This is a very good objective article. Obama is no saint and it shows he learned the ropes.

And the stories are likely very true. So what? Do you really believe he is a cuddle bear? And he "has " thrown a lot of folks under the bus. Just like his "reversal on FISA, Fairness in Media, aspects of Roe and a host of his votes. Burying your head in the sand about what he is doesn't help get him elected. If he does get elected it will be because he "did" learn the ropes and is the arrogant, cut throat politician they say. How else could he be elected?

If anything, this article says he is smart enough to get elected.You don't have to like him to vote for him.

[redstate_democrat]

51. But I question the motives of them writing this kind of article and then

pairing it with the cover they did. The cover has nothing to do with the article and the article isn't exactly showing him in a positive light. That, combined, spells hit job to me.

[MarjorieG]

53. No, but I was probably a bigger fan to start with. You seem joyous in the deconstruction.

Again, he couldn't filibuster without support, without appearing weak for not succeeding, and he never said the rest of the bill wasn't something we needed as a temporary fix before it lapsed (just in time for the October surprise).

Yikes...

[saracat]

64. I don't understand what is offensive about it. It just points out he is an effective politician.

[democrattotheend]

47. I was more upset about the article than the cover

You expressed my thoughts exactly about the article. And it seemed so one-sided...I have read other interviews with other people from Chicago who have sung his praises, but they chose only those whose stories fit their narrative. I sure hope the stuff in this article isn't all true...I take comfort in the fact that it's at odds with other stuff I have read. I don't believe Obama is perfect by any stretch but I also don't think he's the cold-hearted, ruthless, self-serving politician portrayed in the article.

[redstate_democrat]

54. Exactly. The only good thing out of the article that I can piece together

is the fact that he "did what he had to do in spite of it". I didn't see Obama as that kind of pol. I didn't see him as perfect either, but not this one-sided portrayal either. They even suggested that he IS NOT someone who bucks the system, but someone who goes along to get along and uses the system for his own needs.

[saracat]

65. As are they all! So?

[beachmom]

81. No, they're not. I recall Kerry being pretty unpopular for quite a long time in DC

on account to his investigations like BCCI which implicated both Democrats and Republicans.

[saracat]

87. But Kerry was also known as "Live shot" for being in love with the camera

and extremely ambituous. Politcians ,and Kerry is one as well, generally have the attributes mentioned in the article.

[beachmom]

108. "Live shot" was invented by a right wing source. They needed

to diminish what he was doing. I do not agree that he was how they portrayed him. He did not enjoy taking calls from Jackie Onassis begging him not to go after Clark Clifford. He did it anyway.

[tritsofme]

48. Obama is a Chicago guy that had to work within the confines of the Daley Machine, what did you

expect?

I'm sorry the article doesn't conform your fairy tale version of Obama's life.

But you don't get anywhere in Chicago politics without being a tough operator.

[sandnsea]

50. The Daley Machine did Obama no favors

And look where he is in spite of it. It's too bad The New Yorker didn't dig a little further, but there's nothing in this article that hasn't been spewed before.

[redstate_democrat]

57. "there's nothing in this article that hasn't been spewed before"

But this is the thing: Obama is still relatively unknown to a lot of people in America. He is trying to debunk these rumors, get people to know about him, and at the same time, lay out his plans.

This kind of story sheds him in an unflattering light. Even though some informed folks may already know the story, why dredge up this again? Why piece it all together in this way when people are trying to get to know him? If someone doesn't know Obama now, and they read this, they will walk away with a very cynical view of Obama.

[sandnsea]

61. Gushing isn't sophisticated

That's why. Literary elites who can't stand the thought of going to a party and being laughed at, laugh at everybody elses expense. Assholes.

[TwilightGardener]

60. Yep--looks like "Obambi" has a knife, and knows how to use it.

That's all right by me.

[kiranon]

73. The soft do not make it in politics. Thank heavens he's tough.

Nice, average guys or gals do not run for the presidency. It's pick your poison time and Obama trumps McCain on almost every issue - no, make that every issue.

[LisaM]

115. Actually, he's not a Chicago guy. He made himself into one.

He could have gone anywhere; he CHOSE Chicago. I don't know if it's because the style of politics there suited him, or if he felt it was the right stage for his ambitions - or really, why he picked Chicago at all.

[elkston]

55. I think Obama truly beleives in the stuff he is saying

He wants to change America for the better, but knows that it must be done in incremental steps and by building mutually beneficial coalitions.

This article shows that he knows how to work people and the system to get things done. He knows how to win and he will know how to fight for us.

And as others have said -- YES, he does have a bit of an ego. But anyone who THINKS they can lead this country must have a wellspring of confidence and a tad bit of aarogance. It just has to be tempered with humanity and compassion, which I beleive Barack posseses.

A very comprehenisve and enlightening article (though it will not reassure some who don't want to see past "he's a shrewd opportunist who didn't wait his turn!").

[nc4bo]

56. on the bright side of the moon............

I didn't care for the harshness of the article either although I am more than aware that a politician will always be a politician, afterall is said and done.

But the bright side, if one can be seen after reading this article, is that there is a good possibility that this candidate will listen and act when enough people voice their concerns/displeasure (loud enough). In other words: Holding his feet to the fire as some of our more vocal lefties have already (and quite loudly if I may add) mentioned.

After all of this, I am still more hopeful with O than I could ever be with Bush III but I will never again allow myself to become complacent over our political processes.

[cbc5g]

58. After reading that article I just have to say...

No wonder he smoked(s?) cigarettes.


Chicago politics is nuts.

[JVS]

59. Maybe the NYer is a Puma publication.

[Median Democrat]

62. What Happened To The Obambi Weak Liberal I Love! Obama Is Ruthless?

I don't get that article. It portrays Obama as ruthless, yet Maureen Dowd of the NYT has consistently portrayed Obama as a wuss, and described him in effeminate terms such as Obambi. Between the New Yorker and the New York Times, someone is seriously off.

[JVS]

63. Both publications are fucked in the head.

[redstate_democrat]

66. You're attempt at satire is too obvious. Try harder next time.

:hi:

[demokatgurrl]

112. Dowd is "seriously off". She's an idiot. n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

70. People should be more concerned about the content than the cover.

Which is true of many things, I guess.

[hiaasenrocks]

72. All politicians are. People are only shocked by stories such as this one

if they let themselves become worshipers of these public servants. Sad.

[nsd]

74. The article actually gives me MORE confidence that Obama can do a good job as president.

He's not naive. He's not soft. He's not an unrealistic idealist. What he is is tough enough and calculating enough not only to win the presidency but to be president. Obama apparently is a guy who can take an existing system and figure out how to make it work for him.

I think the biggest reservation people have about Obama is his relative lack of experience. They wonder: Is Obama the second coming of Jimmy Carter? That is, is Obama a well-intentioned person who will be gamed by the Washington establishment, who won't be able to work the system? This article suggests the answer is no.

[zippy890]

75. you guys didn't know that about Obama?

He is a politician. Very shrewd. No lightweight when it comes to getting where he wants to go.

I think he's very calculating, rather brilliant in his sense of timing this year, his campaigning in the caucus states.

He has a ruthless side to him.

And I do believe he will make a damn good president

[beachmom]

82. People need to remember how ruthless FDR was and start to appreciate

this side of politicians. Of course, it also had its excesses as well: an attempt at stacking the Supreme Court and the Japanese internment camps. All politicians who get to this level have their good and bad sides.

[zippy890]

83. right you are

I got some hope in Hopey that he'll know the lines to draw, the ones to cross over. which they inevitably do.

[saracat]

88. Exactly!

[democrat2thecore]

93. And Truman and Kennedy and Johnson.....goes with the territory

They were all, in their own way, great presidents - and Obama will be too.

[anonymous171]

79. Wow. Why must the LIBRUL MEDIA be so self hating?

[endelfam]

80. Thanks very much.....

for getting people to look at this article. I also started a thread on this yesterday, which never picked up. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6495887


I also find the article upsetting. It paints a picture of an opportunist who is in it only for himself. I am not saying that the man is a saint or that I agree with everything he does, but this article comes close to caricature. If this is how our so-called media allies depict Obama, who needs enemies?

[Hoof Hearted]

100. You know why the Yankees always win?

"Because they've got Mantle?"
"No. It's because the other team's too busy staring at the pin stripes."

[romana]

84. The article

Actually, I thought the article was fair, though brutally honest. I learned a few things about Obama and Chicago-style politics that I didn't know before. I've thought, since 2004 that Obama has an ego the size of the Milky Way galaxy and has probably been running for president for most of his adult life. So nothing in the article with respect to that surprised me in any way.

Overall, I thought the article was fairly positive, and am a bit surprised at the vituperative reaction it has received here. It painted Obama as a consummate politician, ambitious, perhaps arrogant at times, but also someone who has learned from past mistakes, never completely sold out his values, and who understand how to further himself and his own agenda within the system. If anything, they presented Obama as exactly what he is--a hybrid between old-style politics and something new. It seems to me he's made surprisingly few enemies along the way, as well.

[BeyondGeography]

86. He beat the Clintons and he's going to beat the Republicans

I haven't read the article, but it sounds like the flip side of the O'Bambi stereotype. The media can't make up its mind about this guy and, meantime, he keeps beating the people they pump up to be invincible.

[rox63]

89. I have a mixed reaction to the article

You don't get as far (and as fast) in politics as Obama has gotten without being very ambitious, or without making some enemies. From all I've ever heard, Chicago politics is a cutthroat business, and anyone who isn't willing or able to play hardball will get crushed under the wheels of the machine.

Is Obama a nice guy? Probably, but I suspect he is an iron fist in a velvet glove. Does he know how to win? Damn straight, he does. And we need someone who is willing to play cutthroat politics to beat the GOP slime machine. We also need him to stand up for our interests. But all our issues are moot if he can't win in November.

I think the article accentuates the cold, calculating politician side of him. Don't fool yourself, every successful politician has this side to them. It's usually not pretty, and some folks will be turned off by it. I don't think the article shows a balanced view of Obama. We've all seen the brilliant, charming, masterful orator side of Obama. This article is about a side we don't often see. This is about the guy who beat the Clinton political machine, not an easy task by any means.

Even though the cartoon was meant as satire, I don't think it was appropriate to use it on the cover of the magazine. Most of the wingnuts who believe all the lies being spoofed in the cartoon will say it's proof that all that crap is true. But most of them would never crack open the New Yorker. So keeping it inside the magazine would have kept it off their radar. And most of the people who saw it would be those who would get the joke.

[democrat2thecore]

94. Before his death, Sen. Paul Simon said Obama was a breath of fresh air in Chicago politics -nt

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

96. I haven't read it yet, will do so tonight. In any case, I want Obama to

be a scrapper. Nothing wrong with fighting hard for what you want.

[Imagevision]

97. I'll bet that Rupert Murdoch is behind owning the New Yorker magazine...

[democrat2thecore]

104. Not hardly - here's the list (inside)

The New Yorker is owned by Condé Nast Publications, Inc.

Some of their other titles (do any of them look like Murdoch titles to you?):

Vogue
W
Glamour
Allure
Self
Teen Vogue
GQ
Details
Men's Vogue
Lucky
Wired
Easy Living
Architectural Digest
Domino
Maison & Jardin
Vogue Decoration
Brides
Modern Bride
Elegant Bride
The New Yorker
Cookie
Golf Digest
Golf World
Golf for Women
Gourmet
Bon Appétit
Condé Nast Traveler
Vanity Fair

[KoKo]

99. Well...isn't that what we Dems have been lacking? Why complain...he is what he is...

and he has lots of grassroots workers and support of most of the Dem Netroots...while the Progressives on the Netroots watch him. At least he generates more excitement than Kerry did. So...we could win with another Clinton Charismatic. What's wrong with that. So we bring Chicago School of Politics into our our elections. People praised JFK for having Daley supposedly "steal the election" for him...those were the rumors.

What the hell? At least we get Poltical Candidates for Dems away from the South and let us Southerners stew for awhile...and we have something new to deal with. Don't we want a "Fighting Fish" who kills every prey by outwitting them in the White House? After all...look at the track record of Reid and Pelosi? But, I do worry that Tom Daschle (Mr. Hand Wringer who had Harry Reid as his "second in command" as Obama Co-Chair...but I will be happy for the day when Obama throws Tom "under the bus" like Tom threw Al Gore "Under the Bus" in 2000 and gave Bush EVERY APPOINTMENT he requested which sold us down the road to "Iraq Invasion."

Hey Obama is clever. So was Clinton and he won two terms. We gotta go with the MOVEMENT and the CHARISMA. It's the only way we Win. :shrug: It's more important to get Progressive's with SPINE into the House and Senate than to worry about Obama's Piranha Fish Killer Instincts for now...after what we've lived through.

[democrat2thecore]

105. I agree with you! Except for the fact we all bought that Obama was "different"

At any rate - his election is an absolute necessity!

[Tideliner]

103. Republicans Infiltrate Liberal Media

The Machine has started.

As November approaches, we'll be seeing a lot more of this.

Everything from the distasteful front-page cartoon of the Obama's to the Jessie Jackson "interview" is part of a grand plan.

The Polls are already reflecting their success...!!!

[snowbear]

106. Hi Tideliner!

I'm in Alaska too.. In Anchorage!

Gotta kinda disagree with you on part of your comment.

McSAME is doing quite poorly in individual state polls. You can't trust national polls.. but statewide polls are a different story.

In fact, I'll bet you just about anything that he even wins Alaska.

I went to the grand opening of his first office here the other night and it was INSANE!! They had the whole street shut down to traffic and I had to park a couple blocks away.

Just since that night (this past Friday) he's already opened a second office, and will also be opening offices in Juneau and possibly one in Ketchikan.

He is SERIOUS about taking on red states and since McSAME is =NOT= popular or liked here, I think Obama has a great chance.

Not just here --- he's ahead in numerous red states!

WELCOME TO DU !!! ~~

[Awsi Dooger]

107. I recognize Obama more from that article than his consensus reputation on DU

I can't count how many times I've called him suffocatingly arrogant, or some version of that. It's been my one problem with him, not any issue specifics or switching.

ruggerson probably had the summation I respected most, months ago, focusing on the opportunist aspect.

If that's what New Yorker is telling me in a nutshell, arrogant and opportunistic, yeah no kidding. Now start describing the administration we've been saddled with, and the people McCain is certain to drag with him.

[aikoaiko]

109. Politics is a blood sport

No one gets to the top as a saint.

[AngryAmish]

110. To quote the great Harold Washington: We don't play this game in short pants

I have not read the article since I don't have the spare three hours but...

In Chicago politics are done for one thing: to get rich and powerful. And it is the same anywhere else. You get a job with the city/state/county because you know someone. This is why services around here suck.

If you can get people jobs you are known as a "chinaman" (politics ain't pretty in Chicago). Those workers you get jobs have to work for you at election time or they get fired/demoted/never promoted/get all the shitty jobs etc. You deliver the votes you barely have to show up for work. Without politics everyone's idiot brother in law would not have a job. Instead, they work for the Water Department.

Get enough political power then you get to run for higher office. And the circle continues.

Barack got to run for senate because he kissed the ass of Emil Jones (president of the IL Senate). Mr. Jones kissed the ass of the Daleys. That is how it is done around here.

[Forkboy]

116. Take out the world "cold"and I'd agree.

And that's fine by me.

[depakid]

117. It was actually a pretty interesting article

Not much has been written about Obama's days as a Chicago politician.

The redistricting stuff was also pretty funny (if you're something of cynic about these things).

[Beacool]

118. And you didn't know any of this already????????

There was plenty of information out there for those who wished to do their due diligence.

:shrug: