"Obama's Moving to the Center" alarmists...

[NYC_SKP]

...like my sister (and I love her dearly), would do well to just take a moment.

I encourage her and others to put their soapbox aside and think about this.

On average, as many as 18 veterans commit suicide every day.

<snip>

Last November when CBS News exposed an epidemic of more than 6,200 suicides in 2005 among those who had served in the military, Katz attacked our report.

"Their number is not, in fact, an accurate reflection of the rate," he said last November.

But it turns out they were, as Katz admitted in this e-mail, just three days later.

He wrote: there "are about 18 suicides per day among America's 25 million veterans."

That works out to about 6,570 per year, which Katz admits in the same e-mail, "is supported by the CBS numbers."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/21/cbsnews_investigates/main4032921.shtml

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/13/cbsnews_investigates/main3496471.shtml


FISA, Faith-based Charities, Iraq flip-flop, etc.....WTF?

"One issue" purists piss on the candidate because of their one issue. Given all the different issues, we collectively shoot ourselves in our collective foot.

What's more important, to be right on an issue, or to win?

If we lose, being right doesn't mean shit.

[Rambis]

1. Molly Ivins (RIP)

"Bush talks center but governs right" so why can't Obama talk center and govern left?

[NYC_SKP]

5. I miss Molly...

Thanks for sharing that thought at this important time.

:thumbsup:

[depakid]

2. Obviously, it's better to win

and the way to do that is to stand up for traditional Democratic values- not to look weak and weasely.

[NYC_SKP]

7. You might be right if..

there was such a monolithic thing as "Traditional Democratic Values", but the voting demographic is more complex than that.

Winning requires compromise. I'm all for taking him to task....after we win.

For someone who understands "thermodynamics is not economics", I'm surprised you don't appreciate the distinction some of us are trying to express between winning/effective campaigning and effective governing.

[depakid]

10. Winning requires NOT looking weak and weasely

the data and analysis supports that (seemingly very simple) notion- though like laws of thermodynamics- which also embody fairly simple notions, many people don't seem to get them.

Polls consistently show (even in many red states) that voters disagree with Republican positions of the issues. Yet the vote for them anyway. Repeatedly.

Why?

An overriding reason is because they're perceived as willing to stand up and fight for what they "believe in."

[NYC_SKP]

12. You know, it's possible that Obama is being 100% honest and genuine.

That's he's not triangulating.

And I don't feel that he's obliged to represent the progressive line, other demographics supported him vigorously, too.

Either way, I'm all for lobbying the candidate, but I trust his judgement more than my own, and more than his critics, even the constructive one.

:hi:

[Breeze54]

14. Is that you, Britney?

:sarcasm: :eyes:

Memorable quotes for Fahrenheit 9/11 (2004)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361596/quotes

Britney Spears: "I think we should just trust our president
in every decision that he makes and we should just support that."

[NYC_SKP]

15. Leave Britney alone!!!

Leave her ALONE!

[NYC_SKP]

16. But seriously, Um, let's see...Britney was talking about the president, and

I'm talking about a nominee who is pretty sharp but has plenty of obstacles as it is.

I prefer to lobby quietly at this time and trust his strategy for winning.

Different story AFTER he wins.

18 suicides a day....no sarcasm.

Being right is just dandy. Good luck with that.

:sarcasm:

:hi:

[SwampG8r]

3. and if you would rather be "pure"than victorious

you deserve what you get

amen skip we have so many shooting us in the foot over their one issue that we will soon have no foot left to shoot

[lyonn]

4. Amen swampg8r.

Most of the issues are not cut in stone. They are fixable.

[jobycom]

6. All that is true, but I still don't begrudge the purists a glass of whine now and then.

The fear for some is that Obama will compromise so much he won't change anything. What if we put him in there, and he fails to accomplish what we want (Remember the 06 elections?), and America turns on him and elects, oh I don't know, Bobby Jindal or some such right winger in 2012?

Nothing we can do about who the nominee is, but if some purists want to whine and complain that Obama is crossing the line, I'm all for it (though I hate reading it). Maybe it will put pressure on him to stay honest. Some people seem to think that just winning is the final solution to all our problems. Winning is the easy part. That doesn't mean it's easy, but we do need to worry about what will happen if we win.

I've never been an uncompromising purist type, but I'm even more uncomfortable with the "Let him do anything he wants, he won't let us down" crowd. Inflexibility against all practical concessions is a nihilistic trait, but so is complete acceptance of all compromises. The first makes sure you never win, the second makes your win irrelevant.

Not that the OP displays either sin. I just wanted to say all that. :)

[NYC_SKP]

8. It must be challenging to balance the two approaches, but compromise he must.

:hi:

[jobycom]

11. It's our job to complain, it's his to find a solution.

DUers do their job really, really well. :)

[jedr]

9. He may have a funny name and be black but he's the only;

choice you've got.....get over it and vote!

[Political Heretic]

13. So for Obama's doing pretty good at being right on issues and playing to win.