Bush thinks GROWTH is GOOD?.....WTF? No one told the dufus?? Growth is now BAD

[opihimoimoi]

we got 300 million and we want MORE?

More peeps mean more consumption means energy requirements need to go UP....we are indeed on a National Death Wish...somebody, GET THE HOOK ALREADY

At this AM presser...he stands there and lauds our Nations GROWTH...which is only good if the resources can sustain the growth...The man is BLIND

[Psephos]

1. Forget that loser, we need growth to pay SS and Medicare

Those programs collapse like a paper plate full of lasagne once the growth assumptions built into their house-of-cards funding plans don't come true.

I agree with you *completely,* the last thing we need is more people. But the geniuses who have overseen and then plundered SS funding have built growth assumptions into it. Europe is facing the same problem, except worse, given that most of Europe now has a birthrate below the replacement rate. In Japan, the birthrate is so slow they are developing robot pets and nurses for old people - there won't be enough young people to keep them company or change their Depends. Seriously.

[NYC_SKP]

2. Clearly, growth has it's limits.

Of course social security became dependent upon an ever growing population, and our economy and business depend upon growth.

But it is not sustainable. It cannot be. The planet cannot take us all at present numbers.

The question, then, is which generation should be faced with the reality and have to redesign the model?

[Psephos]

5. Good observations and good question

The answer is: the can will be kicked by our glorious elected "representatives" until it lands at the feet of the generation that is staring directly down into the financial abyss. That will prolly happen sometime in the next dozen or so years.

Our political system weeds out all but the short-term thinkers and partisan demagogues.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the public discovers it can vote itself largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from public coffers, consequences be damned."

[NYC_SKP]

6. Very good points, though

it seems we may be very near the abyss....mortgage meltdown, medicare and ssi, national debt...

Your last bit, I've dug that up before, there's more to it, about the inevitable cycles of all democracies, though if I recall there is no clear attribution for it.

I think, or maybe I'm thinking of something VERY similar....

[NYC_SKP]

7. Here it is...

Cycle of Democracy

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.

"From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

"From bondage to spiritual faith;
from spiritual faith to great courage;
from courage to liberty;
from liberty to abundance;
from abundance to selfishness;
from selfishness to apathy;
from apathy to dependence;
from dependency back again into bondage."

Dr. Alexander Tytler, a Scot professor, wrote a scholarly tome, from which this concept comes, called "The Athenian Republic" which was published shortly before the thirteen American colonies gained independence from Britain. "Google" him to learn more.

[Psephos]

10. Wow, thanks for that attribution - its authorship has been one of those "internet mysteries"

I looked up Tytler, and you've nailed it.

[sakura]

12. Wow.

Now I have my bedtime reading for the next month or so. Thanks!

[sakura]

11. Dupe

[NYC_SKP]

13. Scary, isn't it?

I've tried before to nail down the original writer, but without luck.

Different parts seem to have existed prior to this full piece, so it's evolved over time.

:hi:

[opihimoimoi]

8. If we look...there is no one else but us to solve..if we cannot solve this simple matter, we deserve

all the resulting misery connected to OVER POPULATION on a Planet with diminishing supplies/resources

[eridani]

25. That's a temporary problem

There will be a temporary surplus of oldsters before we move to one out and slightly less than one in. Anything else is insanity.

[Muttocracy]

3. correction - Bush doesn't "think"

:hi:

[AZ Criminal JD]

4. Obama and McCain buy into the same model

So don't expect any change soon.

[opihimoimoi]

9. That is simply not True...McSame is for continuing the Neg Model of Bushism

Obama is changing the Polarity into a Positive Mode...Hugh Diff...

Vote Blue...our only hope of Positive Change...

[AZ Criminal JD]

14. What are you smoking?

I am voting for Obama but since I live in the real Universe I don't pretend that Obama is anti-growth because he is not.

[opihimoimoi]

15. He is a Pragmitist....he will do what is best for all of us...he has the odds to pull it off

McPseudo is a fraud...il prepped and outta the loop.

[Zynx]

16. The view you express is not exactly a universal consensus.

No politician in their right mind is going to call for economic and population growth curbs and I don't think a majority of anyone is in favor of that position.

[opihimoimoi]

18. Then we await mega miserable times....simple math tells us growth spirals

such as ours CANNOT continue forever....

Sad but pathetically true.

If we don't do it...then nature will via a dieback...

looks like we have a collective Death Wish

[Zynx]

21. I am resigned to this fact because most of the methods to attempt to curtail

said growth are very unpleasant and totalitarian.

[opihimoimoi]

22. We should seek ways for stabilization to be Humane and Desired...

[rasputin1952]

17. A few things grew under the bush administration...

The # of servicemen/women who have died.

The national debt.

The wallets of his cronies.

Just depends on what "growth" your looking at...:hi:

[opihimoimoi]

19. He was talking like it was a good thing...growth is Good is now OLD

every year we add 800 million more peeps to feed and house....add the math in 5 years...4 more billion....

[rasputin1952]

20. I saw most of that on TV when I got home...

the man is in his own world, and a dark one it is indeed.

[opihimoimoi]

23. Raspy, I see them Dark Clouds too...so do many many others and all are sounding alarms

There has to be a way to achieve REASON within our Gov't...this is bizzarre and almost EVIL....are we on a collective death wish of sorts?

We see the bad shit coming but refuse to prepare///?? WTF?

[TheKentuckian]

24. It takes no totalitarian policies to slow, stop, or reverse growth

it is demonstrated by the Japanese example and to a lesser extent here in America and throughout the west. Education, plentiful resources, and a job gets everybody in the mood for less kids. Someone should have been nestegging the retirement funds with more sound payment rules, knowing that if we can maintain our lifestyle, the population would decrease over time to a more manageable plateau. We just had to work through the baby boomers and it would be ok.

If it's greedy, shortsighted, or stupid then it probably is a part of our societal game plan the last few generations. We pretty much have to buck up or go into a die off dark/ages that we will have few accessible resources to reemerge from. Maybe we'll get lucky and just be a black eye on the concept of democracy, allowing less deathlocked and stupid people to be able to continue civilization.

[AngryAmish]

26. Don't worry. After we win the election the population will go down, sharply.

It will be time to bring justice to the Rethuglikkkans.