Rachel is none too happy about Nunn or Bayh as Veep potentials. nt

[gateley]

[tishaLA]

1. Neither is Tisha

and for the same reasons.

[dbackjon]

2. As I have stated before - Nunn for VP = no Obama vote

I will not vote for that hateful bigot.

Might as well run Jesse Helms - no difference is hatred towards fellow Americans

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. You'd rather have the hateful bigot, John McCain?

[dbackjon]

8. No - but with Nunn on the ticket, what's the difference??

[gcomeau]

13. That VPs don't set policy. Which is painfully obvious.

Not that I think Nunn is likely, but asking what the difference between an Obama and McCain presidency would be just because of a VP selection is just purely stupid. Come on now.

[ruggerson]

14. VP's are a heartbeat away from the Presidency

[gcomeau]

26. I'll put my money on Obama *not* dying in office.

...whatever the morbid sceculation to the contrary. But even if you did think it remotely likely that he would, you're still faced with the marginal possibility of the VP stepping up, vs. the absolute certainty of McCain being president if McCain is elected, so it's STILL brainless to ask what the difference between an Obama and McCain term would be just because of the VP.

And as for the Cheney comment made below, just as Obama is not McCain Obama is sure as hell not Bush.

Once again, not expecting a Nunn VP choice. But saying such a choice would cause there to be no difference between Obama or McCain getting elected is mindboggling.

[ruggerson]

34. Obama himself has said the first qualification of a Veep

should be that he/she is ready to be President.

Nothing morbid about it, almost every candidate for President in the last eighty years has ostensibly used that benchmark as their starting point.

I say ostensibly because we have seen the Dan Quayles and the Spiro Agnews somehow make their way onto a national ticket.

Obama owes the country a good Veep choice, and he owes Democrats a sound, sensible one that can help him win. I'm quite sure he'll provide one and that all the yapping about Hagel and Nunn is just divisive jibberish.

[gcomeau]

36. We weren't debating VP qualifications.

We were addressing the question of whether Nunn as VP made an Obama presidency THE SAME as a McCain presidency. Try to keep up.

[ruggerson]

38. yes, and I moved the conversation forward

sorry if it was a little too quick for you.

[gcomeau]

40. No, you avoided the question entirely and changed the subject. -nt

[ruggerson]

41. No, I pointed out the fallacy

in pretending that a Vice President is merely a harmless figurehead who doesn't "set policy."

Fact is, it's the most important choice a Presidential candidate makes.

Because they may end up setting ALL the policy.

[gcomeau]

46. Let's see if I can spell this out for you...

The question was, and I quote "with Nunn on the ticket, what's the difference??" (between Obama and McCain winning).

Now, unless you are trying to argue that placing Nunn on the ticket actually does make electing Obama and McCain THE SAME you are not addressing the subject of this discussion. And I have not seen you make that argument. You made a peripheral argument that maybe there was a possibility of Nunn becoming president and I addressed that already... the slim possibility of Nunn is not the same thing as the certainty of McCain. Beyond that, all I have seen you do is try to make the point why you think Nunn as VP would be bad. Here's a quick tip, I'm not advocating Nunn as VP so I don't give a shit why you think he would be a bad choice. *I* think he would be a bad choice, but that's not what we're talking about. If you don't have an argument to present about how Nunn on the ticket would magically transform an Obama presidency into a clone of a McCain presidency then you are wasting my time

Now, do you want to participate in the actual discussion you cut in on, or were you planning on continuing to have an argument all by yourself while addressing it to me for some reason?

[ruggerson]

52. I already made the argument

you're just choosing not to hear it. dbackjon's point was that there wasn't much difference between a national ticket with McCain on it vs one with Nunn on it. I amplified his argument by reminding you that, unfortunately, history tells us we that the Veep can become President in a heartbeat. We should all be concerned by the prospect of a President Nunn or Hagel. Horrified, even. His point was a valid one. Now spew some more incoherent anger if that's what gets you off.

[gcomeau]

63. And I already refuted it.

There is a difference between person A "being on the ticket" in the VP position, and person B "being on the ticket" in the presidents position. There is a difference between the slim POSSIBILITY of person A becoming president if their ticket wins, and the 100% CERTAINTY of person B becoming president if THEIR ticket wins. My 4 year old niece can grasp facts that simple.

[villager]

19. You mean like the way Cheney didn't?

n/t

[Cha]

21. Does it really need to be pointed out to you that

Obama is not bu$h?

[villager]

68. I am simply noting that the VP's office is not to be dismissed lightly...

Anymore.

[Freddie Stubbs]

65. You don't see a difference between President McCain and President Obama?

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. The Ralph Nader argument, eh?

[Ian David]

10. Obama has my vote no matter who he picks for VP.

We can always jump ship in 2016 if we have to.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. Nunn wouldn't be running in 2016 if he was the VP

I don't even know if he would stay on the ticket for 2012. He's older than John McCain.

[newmajority]

29. Actually Jesse would be preferrable at this point.

Dead bigots can't influence all that much.

[OhioBlue]

62. I looked at the thread before reading

the content of each post. I thought you meant Jesse Ventura. lol.
I was really curious what your post would say....
lol...

[groovedaddy]

4. Let's keep the DLC out of this...okay? n.t

[newmajority]

28. Let's keep the DLC out of everything

Permanently......

[Zhade]

59. Hear, hear! Fuck that arrogant conservative minority.

They are a dying breed anyway.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Neither is ocelot.

But I'm not too worried. Nunn is pretty old and Bayh is just... bleh..

[Hieronymus]

6. Neither am I. Nunn is an old homophobe and Bayh is DLC.

[NattPang]

7. Why are finding things to be unhappy about

that have not yet happened?

[Muttocracy]

9. I only saw a few minutes of obama's speech and discussion today

but Nunn and Bayh were not impressive from what I saw. Obama called it a "feisty group" and Bayh said, that's the first time I've ever been called feisty. I believe that.

[Spider Jerusalem]

11. Is anyone happy about either of those as a potential veep?

Bayh is a bland DLC neoliberal. Nunn is an old-school Southern Democrat and a known homophobe who was the principal architect of the 'don't ask, don't tell' policy on gays in the military. There's not much there with either for anyone who's remotely progressive to be enthused about.

[Cosmocat]

18. I think Bayh has a stabilizing effect ...

Look ... I get what everyone is saying about Bayh, and I was right with you until about a month or so ago ...

But, you have to step back and look at the hole the MSM is pinning BO into IN PRESENT TIME ...
o
While WE, and that means me, would LOVE a real fire breathing progressive, I see to easy of marks for the MSM ... Biden would be great, but he already has been typcasted, even if he didn't say something stupid, that is the narrative for him and they would spend the next four months ginning up nonsense with him ... As an example, I LOVE Wes Clark, and I think he would be a darn fine president or vice president, but he has been typcasted and will be hammered based on the typecast regardless of reality ... ANY female, regardless of her quality will be spun as a poke in Hillary's eye every day until the election ...

I guess someone like Sweitzer who hasn't been typecasted and does not fit into the "liberal" mold would be good, but IMO THAT is the key here ... Like it or not, the pick has to "do no harm" ... It can't be someone already typecast or who fits into the "liberal" narrative ...

Sorry, but Bayh is that kind of candidate ...

The SPIN, the LABEL, the typecase they are putting on Obama - IS HE READY ... They are building the narrative that he can't be trusted, they are looking to find reasons to attack his decision making ... And, IMO, the VP pick is one of the means they are WAITING to tear him down on ...

Sorry, but what we find so hard to swallow about Bayh is what makes him harder for the media to spin in a negative light ... All this things that smell republican about him is what the media won't attack ...

[Donna Zen]

57. Bayh should not be near the levers of power

Every time there a critical vote on a critical issue, Bayh is always listed on the Democratic sellout side. Bankruptcy. Check. War. Check. Women's issues. Check. Kyl-Lieberman. Check.

Heck. Bayh has even given those Lieberman-like speeches where he refers to Democrats as soft on defense.

Well, Bayh does love him some lobbyists and he's got lots of COH.

Is this what being a Democrat means? Hey, I remember Obama saying that he would listen.

[Cha]

24. No, and why is there even a rumor out there

about them? I don't see Obama working synergystically with them over the next 8 years and them getting groomed for Prez.

[Zhade]

60. Absolutely not!

NT!

[terrya]

12. I don't understand how our nominee can talk about GLBT equality...

and yet, at the same time, even slightly consider putting that disgusting, homophobic bigot Sam Nunn on the ticket. Seems kind of inconsistent to me. But again, that's just me.

[dbackjon]

32. Or shows Obama's true colors on equality

[Hippo_Tron]

43. Lyndon Johnson was pro-segregation in the US Senate and chosen by Kennedy...

To appeal to white southerners who favored segregation.

And as we all know LBJ not only signed, but fought tooth and nail for the most important civil rights legislation in our nation's history. Once these people cease to be elected officials from deeply conservative states, you see their public views change quite a bit. Sam Nunn was asked about Don't Ask Don't Tell since leaving the senate and now that he doesn't have to get elected by a bunch of homophobes from Georgia, he admits it's not good policy.

[Major Hogwash]

45. Gee, when did that happen, Grandpa?

Did they have X-boxes back then, too?

LoL

[Hippo_Tron]

51. No, but John McCain was President Pro Tem of the Senate back then

It's a little known fact that John McCain has been serving in the Senate twice as long as Robert C Byrd.

:evilgrin:

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

56. Errr...Bill and Hillary talked about GLBT equality but Bill signed "DADT" and DOMA...

so what's the difference? They are DLC, as are Bayh, Biden, Dodd. At any rate, none of them are suitable. But Obama may have little choice in the matter....

[Zhade]

61. THANK you.

NT!

[kwolf68]

15. Anyone shocked

What did you folks expect to see a real progressive as a Veep? Corporate America has a country to overwhelm and contrary to popular opinion, the Dem Party (for the most part) is just another arm of that machine.

[bullwinkle428]

20. Trust me...I wasn't counting on him choosing Feingold, Kucinich, Boxer

et.al. in my wet dreams, but I was at least hoping he wouldn't seriously consider an out-and-out bigot!

[ronnykmarshall]

16. Rachel was great today.

I don't think we have to worry about Nunn on the ticket.

But if Obama wants a "Nun" on the ticket, I suggest this one.

[RazBerryBeret]

17. ahh... the flying Nun!

how funny! and I DO prefer her over Sam...

[PDittie]

22. Both are unacceptable.

The closest I can stand to "conservative Democrat" is Biden. He'll at least bust some balls.

[Ioo]

23. Nunn is a deal breaker for me, I will stay home... homophobic pig...

[Colobo]

25. Bayh > Nunn

[newmajority]

27. Neither is Newmajority.

Funny how the only names you hear in the media, are the ones who would do a truly SHITTY job.

[bigwillq]

30. Me neither.

Both are bad choices, imo.

[Alexander]

31. Neither am I. They both suck.

[NYC_SKP]

33. Rachel Maddow for VP!

Hell yea!

She's sharp as a tack, funny, clever, sexy, and brings in two major constituencies!

:bounce:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Ugh on both Nunn and Bayh

Ideologically, Nunn could be McCain's vice-president.

[Eurobabe]

37. I'm Nunn too happy either, wouldn't Bayh either of them. n/t

[Muttocracy]

54. clever...

[ladjf]

42. Bayh as the VP candidate is my worst political nightmare.

[Major Hogwash]

44. Rachel who?

I hate it when I don't know who you guys are talking about.

[wyldwolf]

48. exactly

[Divine Discontent]

64. Maddow

:hi: MH!

[Renew Deal]

67. Rachel Ray

It was between her low stress motzoh ball recipe and her cupcake tasting segments.

[madinmaryland]

72. EVOO!! Rachel Ray!!

[JerseygirlCT]

47. What sane person would be?

One is simply awful and hateful, and the other is totally boring, and brings nothing to the table.

[DFLforever]

49. Why does anyone think either of them are on any VP list

except the media's?

[AtomicKitten]

50. Me neither.

[salonghorn70]

53. I guess That I'm the Only One

I would be very happy with either Bayh or Nunn. Nunn would help in southern states such as Georgia and Virginia and maybe Florida. Bayh would immediately turn Indiana into a toss-up state and would also help in other midwest states. Both would help with those voters concerned about Obama's experience and his potential to be an effective commander in chief. Given the number of active and retired military here in Texas, both would help.

[dbackjon]

71. So you would be happy having a homophobic pig as VP??

[FredfromSpace]

74. If only Strom was still available...

Honestly, Nunn is THAT bad when it comes to GLBT issues.

[wyldwolf]

75. many here don't think strategically

[salonghorn70]

77. Correct

wyldwolf, you are right. So, to the above posters, I will just say hi. :hi:

[zulchzulu]

55. Nunn and Bayh WIN for the WORST last names to have on the ticket alone...

...let alone how neither would do wackshit for the ticket.

OK... read this:

Obama Nunn

BZZZZZ!

Obama Bayh

WTF????

Bad just on the names alone...

[book_worm]

58. I don't know why people get worked up over these manufactured media news stories

So Obama is going to a conference where Bayh and Nunn are also attending and suddenly it's an audition for them to be VP. People should just chill and wait and see who Obama selects.

[ecstatic]

66. I saw that. I loved her delivery

and the freep guy said her reasons for being against Sam Nunn (his past associations with Wallace, etc.) would be his reasons for being for him. :eyes:

[Celeborn Skywalker]

69. No to either of those.

I would want Biden, Clinton, Richardson, or Clark.

[FredfromSpace]

73. Bayh is bad, Nunn is a deal=breaker

No homophobe swine on the Dem ticket please.

[politicasista]

76. None of the above n/t