I have a "concern" - so sue me: why do the Berlin rally?

[smalll]

The trip's a good thing - go to Afghanistan, and Iraq, and Israel: do the grand tour of Europe. Meet with the movers and the shakers. Shore up your foreign policy credentials, and look Presidential. Be welcomed with open arms. With candy and flowers even.

But why do the Berlin Rally?

Obama is WINNING -- he's winning the money race, he's getting all the coverage, he's dominating the electoral college, and he's leading even in the national tracking polls (Ras and Gallup) -- he has NO reason to take risks --

So why is he speaking at the Victory Column in Berlin? Why the hell is he doing this out-of-doors come-one-come-all rally?

I'm not one who would say that European enthusiasm necessarily translates into American disdain -- but Berlin?

It could go well for Obama - if the Berliners dress "normal" and if at least a few of them have the intelligence to show up waving little American flags. But in general, that's not today's Berlin. Paris, London, neither of them can rival Berlin today in boutique-barbarian tatted-and-pierced hipper-than-thou white-people-in-dreadlocks weirdness.

The Berliners have been protesting against the U.S.A. for over twenty years now, on a regular basis, ever since the Reagan/Thatcher cruise missile thing. Who can guarantee they won't show up with well-worn old anti-American protest signs? And as much as America realizes today that Bush is a pretty lousy President, it won't take too kindly to it if Berliners show up with papier-mache effigies of Dubya to burn. And God forbid it's a really hot day, and too many of those open-minded Berliner frauleins decide to go topless.

So maybe they'll dress decent and wave some little Stars-and-Stripes. But maybe they won't. Why is Obama taking this risk? How did Axelrod let this happen?

Yes, this is a concern! So sue me!

[cbc5g]

1. I kinda agree...I don't see the good that can come from it

IMO it spells trouble...the press will devour him if it's too crazy and if it looks like he's campaigning in Europe.

[Occam Bandage]

8. I, too, don't see any good in a demonstration of foreign goodwill and international political appeal

showing that the absolute best possible candidate to mend the Euro-American rift is Barack Obama. I see no benefits to this whatsoever. Nor do I see any benefit in picking Berlin, the site of the most two most notable speeches in history for Euro-American relations, to deliver a major address on Euro-American relations.

[democrattotheend]

2. I share your concern

And I'm a long-time Obama supporter, for those who are ready to jump on the OP because he/she supported Clinton in the primaries.

I actually had another concern, although maybe it's stupid. I wonder how some Jewish voters, particularly older ones, will feel about him doing a rally in Germany. I'm just afraid the image of a charismatic politician firing up a German crowd might not sit well with some Jews...frankly, it doesn't sit all that well with me, although I know it's really stupid to feel that way. I just wonder why he chose Germany and not another European country like the UK or Italy to do the rally.

[Occam Bandage]

6. Great. So chalk another one up for "Germans are Nazis."

You will not find a city on Earth whose people are more strongly opposed to fascism than Berlin. Nowhere.

[democrattotheend]

37. That's not what I said and that's not what I meant at all

I was just pointing out that there are some Jews who are uncomfortable buying German cars and they may feel the same way about Obama's rally. I also just think Germany is an odd choice for a rally. I think it would make more sense to do it somewhere like Italy, since there are a lot of Italian Americans whose votes are up for grabs.

[thewiseguy]

9. Its not Obama's fault that you feel that way about the Germans

Honestly I find your post somewhat offensive to the Germans.

[democrattotheend]

38. I have nothing against Germans

And I apologize if I offended anyone. I wrote this late at night and I didn't choose my words carefully. I just think Germany is an odd choice to have a rally...the whole idea of an overseas rally for people who can't vote for him seems a little strange, although I think the image of people from another country cheering for him will be kind of cool. But I think Italy or a Latin American country would have been a better choice, since there are US citizens who identify with those countries moreso than Germany.

[question everything]

45. Don't apologize. In politics image is everything

more so than substance, as recent elections showed.

I think that it is great that he visits European and Middle Eastern countries to meet with leaders and with representative groups. But rallies, at this stage of the game is too presumptuous and can really piss off many back home, not just Jews (and gays, and Jehovah Witnesses and others who have not forgotten the Nazi monster).

[Garbo 2004]

26. Yup. Nothing would remind one of the Nazis as much as Germans cheering a black man.

:crazy:

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. Who knows why he is doing any of this. It's getting like Citizen Kane.

[Buck Rabbit]

4. Do you have enough assets to cover my collection costs on a judgment?

I see all his open air rallies as risks, even the stadium acceptance speech. But politically I don't think this one is too risky.

[Occam Bandage]

5. Have you actually been to Berlin? I mean, really actually been?

Your portrayal of Berliners sounds like it's out of the silliest third-hand declarations of European decadence. The vast majority of Berliners are not punks.

[saltpoint]

34. I second that, Occam Bandage. Visited Berlin and loved the city.

Had good conversations with many there.

Left unspoken because they were kind was their command of my English and my butchering of their German.

A punk or two here and there, but also a policeman who helped me make a train connection and a woman at a drugstore who showed me great patience while I stumbled through her language.

It is a city of extraordinary wonders all over the place. I brought back acorns from the Tiergarten after photoraphing the new oak trees there -- replacement trees for the original ones Hitler chopped down to burn fuel in the last, desperate hours of the Reich when the Allies had cut off most of the supply routes.

A city of very cosmopolitan people -- and they are gong to go hear Barack Obama, and it is going to be a damned impressive event.

[hedgehog]

41. Nice sentiment, but NEVER bring back live plants or seeds!

You might accidentally put yourself in league with the fellow that thought a few starlings would be a good idea, or the guy who dropped the box of gypsy moths!

[NYC_SKP]

7. I think it's sad that I'm hearing concern...

about what, "what it will look like", or how it might backfire or how the MSM might twist it if the crowd looks nutty, of the iconography of the Berlin.

Instead of simply feeling proud that he's meeting before an enormous crowd in the capital city of a foreign nation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm concerned, too.

But isn't it sad that we are? Would we have been in the 70's or 80's or early 90s?

:shrug:

[cbc5g]

10. Republicans have brainwashed Americans and the MSM into believing that

Europeans are evil anti-american communist socialists

[Occam Bandage]

11. I can't decide whether to be concerned that Germans are too socialist, or too fascist!

[NYC_SKP]

13. And if those fascio-socialist German bastards love Obama,

the MSM will never let us hear the end of it. :rofl:

Now I AM concerned!

[smalll]

12. I get what you're saying. And I'm pretty sure that the visuals may very well be good. Maybe even..

chances are, the visuals will be. But with Obama so dominant at this point, I think his campaign has kind of dropped the ball by letting this happen, especially in Berlin. Why take the risk?

I know I must sound a little crass here, but yet and still!

[Occam Bandage]

15. What exactly do you mean by "letting this happen?" Enormous PR coups are not things

that you "let happen." They're things you craft. Obama's Berlin speech will be nothing short of a triumph. All the imaginary leather-jacketed sign-waving Euro-Socialist bogeymen you can conjure up won't change that.

[NYC_SKP]

16. Obama gets bad press no matter what the hell he does.

It's just so sick that sometimes it's funny.

And they're picking on Michelle now too, which is beginning to piss me off. (seriously)

:kick:

[thewiseguy]

14. JFK and Bill Clinton have given major speeches in Berlin

The cheering German crowd sure invoked memories of the Nazi rallies! :sarcasm:

[Arkansas Granny]

39. There is a bit of difference, here. JFK and WJC had already been

elected President when they gave their speeches in Berlin. They were not presumptive candidates for the office holding a campaign rally.

[thewiseguy]

40. I am sorry, but you and I are discussing two different things

The question was whether Germany is a suitable site for Obama's speech and I mentioned that historically two major speeches by Bill and JFK have been given there.

You on the other hand are repeating Merkel's talking points that Obama was using Germany's Brandenburg Gate for a campaign rally.

[Webster Green]

17. I like dreadlocks..

Sounds like you would prefer everyone wearing uniforms or something.

It's the folks in suits and ties that give me the creeps. :scared:

[NattPang]

18. I think he is doing what he has decided to do,

and I'm with it on that.

He wants to show the world
that America can be back,
Giving the world a lot to look forward to.

He'll do just fine,
and he'll be just fine.

I'm glad that he is leading
and is not a scary cat.

[caledesi]

30. I agree! NT

[grantcart]

19. You will see by the reaction he gets there - these guys know what they are doing

[CreekDog]

20. because it's got to show that Obama commands international respect

but not from a crowd of cheering French people.

but anyway, it's done, it's decided. relax.

i wish Kerry had done big stuff like this. it sure as hell wouldn't have hurt him.

[bigpenguin]

21. What's so bad?

I mean, it's not like any other American official has shown up shaking hands with some sort of enemy dictat....

Oh wait.

Never mind.

[MissHoneychurch]

22. At least 2 DUers will be there

48percenter and I.

They expect a million people to the speech. Believe me, there will be no Anti-Obama signs. They will control the people who come to hear him speak. No signs are allowed.

And I promise not to take my shirt off :D

[vaberella]

23. My main concern is that he may choose to stay there....

They would give him Merkel's job for life if he asked. He's practically God over there.

[Dbdmjs1022]

24. According to Kos, the Germans are preparing for upwards of 1 million people attending.

Yes, you read that right. ONE MILLION. That visual alone would shut down any attacks on Obama foreign policy.

[RNdaSilva]

25. How much are you worth?

[Eurobabe]

27. Thanks for your concern, but it's really not necessary

And your more than bizzare generalization about Berliners is pretty much over the top. It shows your smalll little mind. :hi:

For the record, IIRC it is usually the drunken tourists in NOLA that do the breast flash thingy, not Europeans. :eyes:

[WinkyDink]

28. Don't be concerned. He'll get a hero's welcome.

[Zynx]

29. Europeans want to love America again. They just need a reason. n/t

[tekisui]

32. Exactly.

To the OP, watch and learn.

[saltpoint]

31. I grimace in shame every time Dubya or one of his Cabinet members or staff

speaks about or visits Europe or anyplace else for that matter because they get off a plane and act like monkeys and morons and thugs.

They toss off taunts like "Old Europe" in press conferences. They wear ice-fishing parkas to Holocaust memorial services. They grab female heads-of-state's shoulders for impromptu backrubs.

I'd say they act like 6th graders, except I think 6th graders actually would behave a lot better and more respectfully.

I lost a lot of faith in Tony Blair when he went lapdog up for Dubya and Cheney on Iraq. I like Brown's sturdiness a lot better. A lot more light is coming through under Gordon Brown than it was under Tony Blair in U.S.-UK relations.

Merkel must surely know that McCain is a weak excuse for a world leader. Her staff must surely realize that he is a Sunday newstalk celebrity but is not otherwise a world profile thinker. And not least, he's a bit of a crank. She's no fireball herself, but she's a lot more sophisticated and cosmopolitan than John McCain.

But Obama will come to her capital city and give an address which many, many thousands of her country's people will attend, or listen to at home or at work, as well as many thousands of other Europeans who will board trains to come to Berlin to hear Obama's address. They know that this is a guy they need to pay some attention to. They likely took wry amusement from Merkel's initial admonishment that Obama not choose Brandenburg Gate for the address and her ridiculous assertion that it was political posturing. The Mayor of Berlin welcomes Obama even as he thumbs his nose at Merkel's knee-jerk complicity with U.S. Republicans.

If U.S. Republicans can pressure Merkel into trying to halt Obama's address they can prevent Barack Obama from erasing McCain's supposed advantage in international stature overnight. Obama is going to win the Europeans over. He already has. That speech will be historic BEFORE it is given and the dividends for Obama will be entirely positive and resonate long after he is elected in November, but not least, it instantaneously erases McCain's "advantage" as a "global leader," which he has never earned in the first place, IMO.

A majority of German citizens also speak English. They will be listening to Barack Obama with genuine respect when he speaks to them. This is going to be one of the great headlines of the year, without question.

All on the positive side of the ledger for Obama.

[crankychatter]

33. boutique-barbarian tatted-and-pierced hipper-than-thou white-people-in-dreadlocks weirdness

omg

thank you

[smalll]

44. You're welcome! /nt

[JTFrog]

35. What a bigoted piece of shit that was to read. n/t

[Alcibiades]

36. More Blau-Weiß than red, white and blue

All they have to do is don some red, and bam, Hertha is patriotic.

Anyway, I appreciate your concern. Berlin is a well-dressed city full of delightful people. I am certain they will make Obama welcome.

[Marie26]

42. To remind people of JFK? nt

[Bullet1987]

43. I don't think there is a problem with him giving a speech in Berlin

Some of his strongest European support comes from Germany. And it's NOT a campaign rally...I wish people would stop calling it that. He's giving a speech on US-German relations.

[Robeson]

46. Probably because it is one of the most powerful countries on Earth, is a staunch

...ally, and is one of the backbones to our national security. But other than silly reasons like that, I just can't figure out why he'd want to speak there...

[JackORoses]

47. your concern has been noted and appropriately dismissed

move along