Sorry Folks. But I'm seeing the same mistakes Kerry made..

[Thrill]

Obama sitting back letting McCain define him with the Assistance of MSM. Instead of the other way around. And the RW nuts are all over the TV and radio shows pushing the same messages. The weeks after Obama won the primary, he was out there hitting McCain non stop. And the Democrats were on TV pushing the Bush third term message.

Now all of them are acting like wimps. I haven't seen one ad reminding people that McCain is a third term for Bush. I have to give it to the McCain camp. They are out there on the offensive. Making Obama play defense. When it should be the other way around. Obama had several interviews this week where he could of really pounded home the McCain=Bush message. And he didn't. What brought this to my attention, was an older man that works with me, who is a Republican, but plans on voting for Obama, because he thought McCain was too much like Bush. Said he had almost forgot about that connection, because Obama had stopped reminding people of it.

Once again, Democrats are being passive. And letting themselves be defined. Sad......Repukes are even winning the pathetic drilling argument. I simply can't believe it. And no I don't think the sky is falling or we're doomed. But You can't let McCain go on all these shows saying you're a fucking idiot that doesn't know anything and get away with it.
Yes that is what he is saying. What else do you get out of him continuing to say 'He doesn't understand' 'He doesn't have the knowledge'. They repeat it enough and people start to believe it. Especially the idiot voting block, that Obama is having trouble winning.

Why the hell hasn't Obama called him out on his many gaffes?

[Bonobo]

1. Obama is no Kerry.

It is so clear now, looking back, how lame a candidate Kerry really was. Like Obama, he did not fight back overtly as you say, but in addition, he was as boring as a tube of toothpaste.

Obama is doing great. He destroyed McCain with his world trip and does not need to resort to attacks to show up McCain.

You sound like a smart, astute person. However, if you were to ask me who has more knowledge of politics and better political instincts, I will have to go with Obama over you. He has made nothing but right moves and I see no reason to share your opinion of the best course of action over his.

[politicasista]

3. No he is not, but at least he shows more respect for one of his best surrogates than people here do

I am glad Kerry is doing for Obama what the Democratic Party should have done for him in 04. I appreciate that. It's too bad that some (not all) of Obama supporters don't appreciate or show more respect for that.

[napoleon_in_rags]

24. You break it you fix it.

Remember that? That's one thing kerry had right I'll always remember. Hearing about this defecit today I hope Obama just pays the interest and leaves every dime for the next Republican president. That's a lesson he could take from Kerry.

[redstate_democrat]

5. Obama WILL have to hit back hard on these attacks.

There is just no two ways about it. The voters he needs (gawd I hate that he does!) are low info voters who "don't know him" i.e. who have problems with Obama's name, color, wife, and background. He can't allow "war hero" McCain with his plastic wife by his side to attack Obama on his ability to be CIC and let it go answered with just a cursory memo to the press. He has to be on the STUMP, visibility PASSIONATE about what he believes and rebutting EACH AND EVERY point McCain raises with facts. It's unfortunate that he has to do this since the PRESS is supposed to actually report ACCURATE news and facts, but this is how the cards were handed to us.

[ProSense]

7. Seriously, what does that have to do with anything? Do you believe the choice was

"boring" Kerry and exciting Bush, and the public chose exciting Bush?

[politicasista]

8. Thank you

Hear those crickets chirping?

[Bill McBlueState]

42. no

You can't invoke crickets seven minutes after the guy posted. It looks silly whan he shows up five minutes later. :rofl:

[Bonobo]

10. I was contrasting the two. Kerry was boring. Sorry if you don't like it.

He sucked as a candidate. Sorry if you don't like THAT either.

The election was stolen, yes, but Kerry should have done better.

I was dissapointed. Sorry if you don't like that. Wait, let me rephrase that. Suck eggs if you don't like it.

[ProSense]

13. "The election was stolen, yes,.." What I don't like are arguments that are all over the place:

He was boring, he won and the election was stolen, but he could have done better.

The stolen election also has nothing to do with countering the media.

Sorry.

[politicasista]

14. Exactly n/t

[Bonobo]

15. Multiple things can be true, you know.

Life tends to be, err, complex. You know?

[ProSense]

16. Complex doesn't mean confusing. The subject is countering the media. n/t

[politicasista]

17. Exactly. Not taking potshots at one of O's best surrogates

Apples and oranges is fun for some.

[Bonobo]

18. Fair enough.

But I think the media is far, far away from the thinking of the majority of Americans.

I don't think they need to be countered. They are full of shit and hot air. Once we stop believing them, they will change their tune.

This election is going to pop a big hole in them. Just look at the polls. All over the place, and after the primaries and the last couple of elections, no one trusts them anymore anyway.

[politicasista]

19. Yep. Don't believe them unless they talk trash about my favorite candidate/liberal

Just sayin. :rofl:

[Bonn1997]

32. And Obama will "pull a Kerry" after it's stolen again

You have to be willing to fight before, during and after the voting. Everything I see so far points to Obama passively accepting the situation once the election is stolen again.

[Mass]

30. Opinions are not facts.

Kerry was boring: your opinion. A lot of other people found him exciting (and some may find Obama boring, which I would disagree with).

Kerry got more votes than any Democrat: fact.

[polmaven]

37. The problem I see with your assessment is

that while Senator Obama is exciting to the politically astute, and to those of us who follow every step of a political campaign, to the low information voters, who start paying some attention a few weeks before the election, what they will remember are the TV ads like we saw yesterday.

They are not glued to MSNBC, CNN, and/or talk radio like we are. They don't watch the speeches, or the coverage of the trips. They see the ads. They read their e-mail. That is about all. It is they who need to be reached, because it is they who will be swayed by the attack ads.

[beachmom]

41. Political ads are over-rated. More and more people have DVRs

and fast forward through ads. Even more, go get something to eat during the ads. The SBVT ADS were less the issue, than the constant talking about the ads. And the talking about the ad shows Obama WITH THE TROOPS while McCain attacks him for not meeting with the troops.

[Alter Ego]

35. Letting your actions speak for themselves is a powerful tool.

You want me to be Presidential, Obama says? Watch me get these world leaders to fucking EAT OUT OF MY HANDS.

And the media had no choice but to point to where McCain was--riding in a golf cart with Bush the Elder and sitting in a German restaurant, and knocking over applesauce bottles in an effort to appear "authentic".

Bush's gaffes were nowhere near as numerous--and his campaign was run a whole heck of a lot better, as much as I hate to admit it. They ran a tight ship and had a carefully defined message--something McCain lacks and Obama has.

No, this is not Bush v. Kerry redux, no matter how much you want it to be.

[beachmom]

39. Without Kerry, Obama wouldn't be our nominee. Without Kerry, Obama wouldn't have this great Iraq

plan. Without Kerry, would Obama's rhetoric on energy policy be as effective? Without Kerry, would health care reform be as far along in our platform as it is?

You guys are really pathetic. Hate to tell you, but 2004 was NOT our cycle, but 2008 is. And a presidential campaign is about TEAMWORK. Nobody has been pulling for Team Obama more than Kerry.

So, you know, show some respect.

[ProSense]

2. What do you suggest he do?

Submitted a large document of facts to the MSM? Hold a press conference? Dispatch his campaign staff to fight the media? Run some ads?

Where are the Democratic pundits and strategists? There sure were a hell of a lot of them criticizing Obama during the primary?

Wouldn't it be great if the MSM spent half the time pushing Obama's rebuttals as they do McCain BS?

[politicasista]

4. Thank you! n/t

[Thrill]

9. I simply suggest stick with the message. That Mccain is he a third term of Bush

Put out some ads. Saying it. Pound it home. ITS A WINNER. Say it after every sentence if you have to. When was the last time you even heard Obama say it?? Thats my problem. He's letting them define him as arrogant and someone who doesn't support the troops. You can't let that go unanswered.

[ProSense]

11. He is putting out ads. The DNC is putting out ads. MoveOn is putting out ads.

He doesn't have an unlimited budget to fight the media single-handedly. Campaign ads simply cannot counter round-the-clock news coverage.

[ecstatic]

6. I'm kind of pissed about the way the discussion has turned

McCain told outright lies in his ad. Instead of the media forcefully debunking it and moving on, they play the ad all day long--lending credence to McCain's view, while forgetting to discuss Obama's successful week in Europe and the Middle East.

If this is what we have to look forward to for the next 3 months, then I guess we should all start thinking about what we'll do when McShame is installed. :puke:

[IndianaGreen]

12. I share the same fear. McCain is no maverick! He is a Bush clone and...

we must attack him for the lying bastard that he is.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DesEtoiles]

21. chyron on CNN right now: "Obama, McCain slam each other" - mutual

[liberalmuse]

22. What is Obama supposed to do?

The sharks are in a feeding frenzy right now. They're going to give Obama just enough airtime to barely refute this bullshit so they can continue to rip away at this until the next inanity comes along. You know the powers that be are behind the scenes pulling the strings on this one. The more they stir up, the more people watch, and the more people watch, the more they are likely to go out to buy shit from their corporate sponsors. They have to keep it exciting because McCain is dead boring, and this is one little crumb they can try to twist in his favor that they can manipulate and mind fuck America with. What power! It's part of the game. Honestly, I don't know what we can do about this bullshit, except hope that most Americans have the sense to figure out they're being played.

Obama has run a smart campaign so far, and I think he will continue to run a smart campaign. This shit is the least of our worries, and I won't even get into what we should really be worried about.

[CK_John]

23. Obama staff need to learn how to make news and not expect news coverage. His trip received

virtually no coverage local TV coverage in my area.

Some suggestions:

Local one on one with network wannabes is the best bang for the buck and can be done in a video studio.

Put McCain on the spot with bold statements and questions: ie, McCain's position on Iraq/Iran will require a draft. Is McCain showing mental fatigue? Why do you continue to insult the Czech Republic? Are you channeling Ford?

That's my .02 cents.

[JackORoses]

25. when you have to start a post with an apology, why not just leave it at that?

[BlooInBloo]

26. HAHAHAHA!!! You need to stop going back for second helpings of FAIL at dinner time.

[depakid]

27. With helpings of irony like this, there's no room for seconds....

[Kaylee]

28. I'm getting a bit worried also.....

Not overly, because of the great trip he just had....but we cannot let McCain define him. Hopefully, we will see some of that fire against McCain that we saw against Clinton in the primaries. He was able to show how ridiculous her charges were without sounding overly negative. So I know he can do it....

But above and beyond all that, I want to hear a hell of a lot more from his surrogates...they should be saturating the airwaves. If it is the media shutting them out....then I am at a loss as to what we can do.

[Bonn1997]

29. Republicans know how to fight; Dems know how to cry

Dems are right ideologically on most issues IMO and would be much better at governing but they don't know how to campaign. (Bill was the obvious exception.)

[Mass]

31. I agree, I am amazed that no more known Democrats go in the media and defend Obama

(Well, after 2004, I guess I should not be, but you're always surprised).

Get out people known enough that the media will repeat their arguments out. Gibbs is fine, but who knows who he is, and, if people hear him. why should they believe him?

So, could for once Democrats go to bat for their candidate, and could we have a VP who is able to be an attack dog.

[KaryninMiami]

33. I agree- where is the fire? Why are they not taking these on directly- HEAD ON?

I'm watching Scarbo and screaming at the T.V. as the McCain team once again, rams it down our throats about the "poor decision" made in Germany not to visit the troops, about how they (the Obama campaign) keeps changing the story, etc. What's up with this? This wasn't "poor judgement"- this was the pentagon saying they could not go. Being against drilling for oil is not poor judgement- it's a factual, smart realistic decision. What's up with them? Passive is not an option if we want to have a shot at this.

[SoCalDem]

34. The problem is this..

The narrative of the MSM, is for a "close race" and they WILL have that close race, even if they have to INVENT it.

Mccain is behind.. WE know it..HE knows it..the media knows it, so they will do anything they can to "even out" the race..

The ONLY thing that McCain has going for him, is his NEGATIVE characterization of Obama, so that's what the media runs with.. To COUNTER the negativity, Obama either has to play their game with point-counterpoint dueling screaming-heads on their little dog & pony shows, or he has to BUY tv time..

In either case it "costs" him.. By dignifying their lame accusations, and risking that a surrogate might make it worse, he runs a risk, and by wasting money he'll need later, he also runs a risk.

He DOES respond, but don't look for him to run a negative campaign against Mccain.. He did the same with Hillary.. She threw manure at him daily, and he still refused to attack her with the same..

He's trusting us to see through the bullshit, and regardless of the nonsense the media is spewing, I think he has it figured out..

[President Decider]

36. KERRY RAN OUT OF MONEY TO DEFEND ACCUSATIONS ...

He already said that's the reason he lost ...

[quantass]

38. I agreee with the poster. Obama is on the defense NOT offense. Very annoying.

[beachmom]

40. Oh, please. That McCain ad was a JOKE. He uses footage of Obama with the troops

to say he wouldn't visit the troops. It's the most pathetic lame thing I have ever saw. Unless they trot out 10 wounded troops who were actually in Landstuhl, who go on camera talking about how their life was ruined because Obama wouldn't allow a campaign circus to come to their hospital bed (a guarantee after the Pentagon ruled it a campaign visit), this story has exactly NO LEGS.

I disagree that this is "swiftboating"; I mean it's a hilarious argument to have with a wingnut. Hey, look at the EFFECTIVE ad saying Obama won't meet with the troops while SHOWING him meeting with the troops.

[Virginia Dare]

43. It IS swiftboating..

because it is the peddling of a lie to make Obama look unpatriotic and the media picks it up and plays it over and over again ostensibly as "news" to burn it in the public's mind.

[Richardo]

44. Sorry folks, but I hate being addressed as 'folks'

It's too Limbaugh-esque.