Dear Whoever is Thinking of A Seated Virginia Politician for VEEP

[Stinky The Clown]

STOP IT!

That person would be way too conservative.

Virginia is trending blue. They LIKE who they elected. Warner **will** Take Warner's seat.

Kaine is good RIGHT WHERE HE IS. Also, he's pro-life.

Jim Webb is very conservative. I like his populism and I just plain like him, but he's not right for national office. He fits Virginia, not the rest of the country, so much.

[BonnieJW]

1. Agree

I am a fellow Virginian and I completely agree. What about Biden, Dodd, Richardson?

[beachmom]

2. Webb is not "very conservative". He is a Reagan Democrat. Big difference.

I agree that somebody like Kaine, with his piss poor environmental record, may not be ideal, but it's not our decision to make.

"Very conservative" = Little Green Footballs. Let's be clear on what is what.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Parse the words/Miss the point

Whatever.

[beachmom]

25. Ah, no. You throw around "very conservative" about a Dem who clearly isn't

and you're going to be called on it. I get "your point", but I think your concept of what is left, right and center is very skewed. Webb is undefineable in that prism.

[book_worm]

3. I'll leave it up to Obama. If he wants Kaine (I believe that Webb and Warner took themselves out)

then that is fine with me.

[TwilightGardener]

4. I'm pretty conservative, so I don't mind a conservative on the ticket--

but Webb would have been a better choice than Kaine. The GOP/Military Complex is trying to swiftboat Obama, and a combat vet sure could help counter that. I wasn't a big Webb for VP fan two months ago, but now I want him back!!

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Clark .......

.... if you think he needs a decorated combat vet.

Plus he's way more liberal than Webb.

[TwilightGardener]

7. I have mixed feelings on Clark--

I supported him in 2004, but have since come to view him as not very skilled politically. I do believe, though, that he is a smart and honest man, and that carries a lot of weight with me. I just don't see Obama as having any chemistry with him, and I think Obama needs someone who can get policies through Congress, which requires someone who knows how to twist arms behind the scenes. On the plus side, they'd be a sharp-looking ticket, and I never underestimate the importance of that.

[karynnj]

10. Not to mention - unlike Webb - he genuinely supported

the 2000 amd 2004 Democratic nominee.

Though Kerry has, I have not forgiven Webb for his op-ed that swiftboated Kerry when he was already the very likely nominee in February 2004. (Kerry had won 16 primaries and no one else had more than one and he was 20 points or more ahead in downstream poll of future primaries) What is most disgusting is that it did not even represent what he thought was true. He uses American atrocities in his books, yet he claimed Kerry dishonored the troops by listing what others said at the Winter Soldier hearings. The real reason he hated Kerry was that he was still angry that Kerry said the war was unwinnable. For that opinion - which MacNamara said was also his from 1968 on - though he was silent through the 1990s - Webb refused to shake his hand for 30 years. http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-02-18-veterans-edit_x.htm


In addition, to this having hurt the Democratic party - look at what it says. I see absolute intolerance and the inability to admit a mistake. Those are personality characteristics I don't see as good in a President.

[beachmom]

26. Point taken, but Webb isn't going to be VP. Kaine is the one

who is being mentioned, and my issue with him is his environmental record, since that will be a big issue going forward.

Webb has a blind spot on Vietnam; he DID defend Kerry getting his medals in that article, but clearly, he will never get over how consensus in America formed to get out of Vietnam. And so he blamed Kerry, and chose to vilify him. They seem to get along okay in the Senate.

[salonghorn70]

18. I Think Clark's Problem Is

that Obama's camp has decided that putting a general as VP might give the impression that Obama is so inexperienced in military affairs that he needs a general to tell him what to do. Someone like Biden, Bayh or Dodd doesn't give that same impression.

[Virginia Dare]

24. Webb took himself out..

he didn't want it. I think Webb is fine just where he is, I'm loving Webb and (Mark) Warner as my Senators. We don't need another Dick Cheney style V.P. Put your strong military/security people in positions like NSA.

[Perky]

8. Kaine has no real option

He is term limited and the two senate seats are held by Dems.

If calamity occures and Obama-Kaine does not win. He gets to run again in VA because... He would not be succeeding himself. It is his best option for a continued political career. and he will be 59 in eight years.

[DarthDem]

9. Well Said

Kaine would be a disaster. John Edwards all over again, in some misguided attempt to carry a fundamentally racist, red (if changing) state. Oh, except Edwards' views are in the liberal orbit. Kaine is anti-gay, anti-choice, and has a terrible environmental record. Awful choice.

[book_worm]

11. What are some of the anti-gay things he has said?

[DarthDem]

15. Defense of Marriage Platform

He used it to defeat Sappy Gilmore - - basically the two of them were running neck-and-neck as to who could be the most homophobic.

[Virginia Dare]

22. Don't you mean Kilgore?

and that's not what won him the race.

[Zynx]

33. You completely made that up.

I guess there's no helping you out of fantasy land if you so choose to live there.

[Zynx]

14. Virginia is a much different state than you perceive it as.

[DarthDem]

16. Oh?

How so? And how do you know what my perception of Virginia is based upon?

[Zynx]

17. You consider it to be far outside the mainstream.

In truth, Virginia is pretty damn close to being the very model of a centrist state with a damn good cross-sampling of the country in almost all respects. Virginia has a higher percentage of people with post-graduate degrees than most states. It has a higher median income than all but a few states. It has a more diverse population than most states. Sure, there is a racist heritage there, but there is in almsot any state.

[DarthDem]

19. Racist Heritage

Look, I'm all for the continuing rehabilitation of Virignia - - I think it's a good idea, and I'm extremely heartened by the near-certain prospect of having two Democratic Senators and a Democratic governor from VA. I also enjoy reading about NoVa and its renaissance, and I happen to enjoy most areas of the state whenever I visit (rather frequently).

But is it time for a (nuanced) anti-choice Veep candidate from Virginia? Almost certainly not, particularly since I can't seem to get all that much reassurance from anyone that he can actually help carry the state.

Most states have a racist heritage? Okay, if you say so, and if we're going to be apologists for that sort of thing. When you're pretty much the origin point of slavery in this country and your state capital is the former capital of the Confederacy, I think you're significantly above most contenders for a heritage of racial bigotry. Hence, too many eggs in the Virginia basket this cycle may not be the wisest course of action.

[Zynx]

20. I don't judge a state based on actions 150 years ago.

I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. I can point to some pretty vile stuff in the north should I so choose. My own home city of Milwaukee is one of the most racially segregated cities in the country and we have had incidents even recently that have displayed massive latent racism such as the Frank Jude incident where an all white jury acquitted white police officers in the beating of a bi-racial man. That's the present.

[DarthDem]

28. Good Deal

I personally find your take ridiculous, so it's mutual and we'll agree to disagree. Thanks.

[Zynx]

30. I would struggle to see how facts are ridiculous.

Most Virginians alive now are not even related to those who implemented the policies you are blasting them for.

[DarthDem]

42. Nor are . . .

. . . the Milwaukeeans you cited then, right? Unless you're telling me that there is no racism in Virginia today. Kind of silly. What "facts" did you cite?

[Virginia Dare]

23. The anti-choice rhetoric was debunked in another thread..

Planned Parenthood gave Kaine the thumbs up.

[DarthDem]

27. Not Really

It was a pretty mild "thumbs up" if you ask me.

[Zynx]

32. There's a big difference between personal beliefs on this matter and what is implemented

policy-wise. Kerry had a pro-life personal view, but has refused to impose it. Kaine is the same.

[Clark2008]

39. I think you'd better check the racism in your own town

(provided you live where your avatar's team lies).

My husband's from Boston and says it's far more racist than anyplace he's lived in the South.

[DarthDem]

50. I Don't Live in Boston

But I've lived and traveled all over the country - - probably more than most my age (37). Is there racism in Boston? There sure is. Ask any African-American athlete who's played pro sports there in the last 30 years (although that's changed a lot, for the better, in the past 5-10 years).

However, with all due respect to your husband's opinion, the racism I saw in North Carolina and Virginia was shocking and deeply embedded. (To say nothing of many places that are even worse.) I find it hard to believe that anyone could even argue the point. I take no pleasure in saying this and I really, really hope it changes. But unless someone can show me definitive evidence that Kaine can deliver Virginia for Obama - - when he'a widely regarded as an ineffective governor - - he's a poor choice. Like Harry Truman said, real Rethuglicans beat fake ones every time.

[Blue_Tires]

43. fwiw we did vote in a black governor almost 20 years ago

[Thrill]

47. Virginia has changed a lot. Especially the northern VA area. Its trending blue

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. I don't see why this is an issue.

The vice-president is not the President; he would not direct policy. Kaine may be pro-life, but he's also stated that he doesn't want to see Roe v Wade overturned. His position on the abortion issue is similar, in fact, to John Kerry's.

And Webb isn't in contention; he's said he's not interested.

[Zynx]

13. Virginia is pretty much middle of the road politically.

I don't know what you are talking about.

[Virginia Dare]

21. Kaine's not all that conservative..

not the same as Webb is, he was Mayor of Richmond for a while. To me, he's a classic liberal Catholic, along the vein of the Kennedys.

[Beacool]

29. Kaine is Pro-life

That in itself should be a deal killer.

So much is ballyhooed about change, change, change.

What change are we precisely talking about? The only change that I've seen so far is a change to the right. A pro-life VP should be unacceptable to anyone who considers himself a progressive.

[totodeinhere]

31. No. The Dem Party is a big tent. There should be room for more than one point of view when it ...

comes to the abortion issue.

[Beacool]

36. OK, but NOT for the VP spot

:thumbsdown:

[Virginia Dare]

38. Kerry's views were pretty much the same...n/t

[Beacool]

45. I was no Kerry fan.

I voted for him in '04, but never liked him as a candidate.

[grantcart]

34. here are the facts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6554931

[Beacool]

37. Thank you.

I have no problem with Kaine as governor, but I still don't want a VP who is not totally pro-choice.

[grantcart]

41. What ever his personal views is, as Governor he backs Roe vs Wade

Even more interesting he did not take the soft approach on abstinency and cut it out of the bill, one of only 17 states to do so.

[totodeinhere]

48. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But please know that others may disagree with you.

There are many fine Democrats who happen to be pro life. I am pro choice myself but nevertheless I respect other Dems who for whatever reason may disagree with me on this issue, and we need their votes in November.

We should not apply a litmus test to our VP candidate. There are many things to consider when choosing a VP, not just how they may stand on the abortion issue. And after all, the VP won't have anything to do with any legislation concerning the abortion issue except for the remote possibility that he or she may be called upon to break a tie vote in the Senate. Besides that, the abortion issue will probably be fought out in the Supreme Court anyway, and it will be Obama who nominates justices, not the VP.

I support Bill Richardson for VP and he happens to be strongly pro choice. But Tim Kaine is a fine public servant and if Obama chooses him that's fine with me.

[polichick]

35. Here's something eye-opening I found today about Kaine...

http://www.baconsrebellion.com/Issues08/07-21/Kilgore.php

[Virginia Dare]

40. The guy who wrote that isn't even a Virginian..

Tim Kaine is stuck with a very conservative majority house delegation that is bent on sabotaging him at every turn. I think he's handled them pretty well, although admittedly not as well as Mark Warner yet. As far as the bad driver fee, he let the repubs hang themselves on that one and I thought it was rather smart politically.

[polichick]

44. What concerns me is the environmental stuff - I had thought he was good on that.

[Thrill]

46. Kaine's term is up. He should stay and do what exactly?

[Stinky The Clown]

49. What does his needing a job have to do with a VEEP slot?

I know people who need jobs. Should they get picked?

[Hippo_Tron]

51. Yea Clinton definitely can't pick Gore, he's right for Tennessee but not for the country

:eyes: