Take The Gloves Off: In 1973, McCain admitted he collaborated with the Vietnamese

[zulchzulu]

I've had it with the McCain campaign. As they say... major incoming aimed at the heart... it's time for some 527s to take McCain down at the knees and put the boot on his neck until he whines like a little school girl.

It's no secret that McCain collaborated with the enemy during a time of war within 72 hours of capture in Vietnam. It's no secret he sought special treatment from the enemy and was given the aid and sexual comfort for a Vietnamese nurse for collaborating with the enemy. He openly violated the Military Code of Conduct, which members of the Armed Forces of the United States who have been captured by the enemy are to adhere to.

Let's review the Code of Conduct and particularly Article V:

Code of Conduct is not a part of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). Instead, the Code of Conduct is a personal conduct mandate for members of the American armed forces throughout the world.

Article I: I am an American, fighting in the armed forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

Article II: I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

Article III: If I am captured, I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

Article IV: If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information nor take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

Article V: When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service, number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

Article VI: I will never forget that I am an American, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

http://www.usmcpress.com/heritage/code_conduct.htm

In the U.S. News and World Report printed on May 14, 1973, McCain openly admitted that he collaborated with the enemy:

"I think it was on the fourth day that two guards came in, instead of one. One of them pulled back the blanket to show the other guard my injury. I looked at my knee. It was about the size, shape and color od a football. I remembered that when I was a flying instructor a fellow had ejected from his plane and broken his thigh. He had gone into shock, the blood had pooled in his leg, and he died, which came as quite a surprise to us - a man dying of a broken leg. Then I realized that a very similar thing was happening to me.

"When I saw it, I said to the guard, `O.K., get the officer.'"

"An officer came in after a few minutes. It was the man that we came to know very well as "The Bug." He was a psychotic torturer, one of the worst fiends that we had to deal with. I said, `O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.'"

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account.html?PageNr=2

WHERE is the mainstream media on this story? McCain is allowed to openly LIE about Obama's visits with troops, openly question his "patriotism" and insinuate that Obama would rather win an election than a war, which would be considered a form of treason.

It's time to take the gloves off with John McCain, the Rhinestone Hero. He is pure scum for trying to make Americans think Obama is not patriotic when he in FACT is a traitor who is possibly responsible for thousands of dead Americans in the Vietnam War.

If there is a journalist out there with some ability to draw up some courage and honesty, I'd love to see them ask McCain POINT BLANK in his face about his admitting he collaborated with the enemy. Just to see McCain explode emotionally would be priceless.

He deserves it.

[YOY]

1. October Surprise. Get one of those Vietnamese Prison guards to talk about blabbermouth Johnny.

Perfect.

[elehhhhna]

3. Or run the "classified" promo films he made for them while captive.

they're out there, somewhere.

[jezebel]

2. I think Obama needs to take the gloves off but not with this. This is too low & would degrade Obama.

[zulchzulu]

12. Obama can play McCain's card and "condemn" the ads

McCain wants to have it both ways. Well, we can play that game too.

If people who have a lazy inkling that McCain is a "war hero" catch wind of the admitting by McCain that he collaborated with the enemy, then we may see a serious shift in McCain's phony act.

McCain wants to openly attack Obama's patriotism, so it's time to throw the bastard some serious attacks back from a 527.

If McCain wants to admit he is a liar with his recent ads and clear the slate, then there would be no need to attack his Achilles Heel.

[FogerRox]

48. Apparently a concept lost on many. And yes it could back fire... easily.

[alwysdrunk]

4. This is most swiftboating thing I've seen since swiftboating

Wrong is wrong. Alos, McCain has been know as "a war hero" for decades now. There is plenty of stuff to attack McCain with besides this.

[leveymg]

8. Swiftboating was lies - McCain admits here that he collaborated BEFORE torture.

He did it to save his own skin. Period. Not heroic. Not a hero. Just another self-interested guy in a jam, so he gave up military info and cooperated in making propaganda broadcasts.

No. John McCain, not a hero - just another dishonest politician.

[zulchzulu]

9. Kerry got swiftboated by LIES. McCain ADMITTED he collaborated with the enemy

By McCain admitting he collaborated with the enemy, he freely admitted that he violated Article Five of the Military Code of Conduct.

If McCain wants to desist and condemn all he has said about Obama TODAY, then we can call off the dogs. Otherwise, he is going to get blasted.

[Major Hogwash]

28. "Swiftboating" is distorting one's military service, as opposed to telling the truth about McCain.

If you can't remember the National Republican Convention of 2004 when members of the convention wore "purple heart bandaids", you can google it and find pictures of GOP civilians mocking Kerry's service in Vietnam by wearing "purple heart bandaids" on their cheeks or their foreheads.

Real clever, not.

They mocked John Kerry, not only for his purple heart medals, but also for his Silver Star.
Yet, when those Republicans tried to portray Kerry as a "fake hero" for having been awarded those medals, that is what became known as "swiftboating".
They were lies told by other people who had served on swiftboats.

Yet, those people never proved that Kerry did anything wrong to be awarded those medals. Ted Koppel even went to Vietnam to prove that Kerry didn't do anything wrong.
All of those medals were awarded by the United States Navy.

So, as far as I'm concerned, those swiftboating Republicans can kiss my ass.

[Hugabear]

66. How the fuck is it swiftboating if it's true?

Would you consider the soldiers involved in Mai Lai to be honorable war heroes? Would you consider the Marines involved in Haditha to be honorable? How about the ones at Abu Gharib or Guantanamo, who were actively involved in torture and murder? Would you consider them honorable as well?

Hell, just because someone served in the military doesn't mean that they automatically get a free pass!

[leveymg]

5. They didn't even have to torture him to make him talk.

McCain also admits in that passage that he collaborated on a political and military level with his interrogators.

That's a pretty serious violation of the UCoMC.

[LiberalFighter]

27. I wonder how many of our military throughout history paid the price

so they wouldn't give the enemy the advantage?

[leveymg]

35. I don't blame him on a human level for saving his own life. But, he's no hero.

And, it's a lie to portray himself as one, running for President, 40 years later.

Needless to say, most of those who did the heroic deed of resisting during interrogation didn't campaign on the fact. Many of them didn't live to talk about it.

But, John McCain seems to have no compunction about profiting politically from his less than heroic act of self-preservation.

[LiberalFighter]

41. Exactly!!! He is not a hero.

[hughee99]

6. From the article

it sounds like McCain admitted that he offered to cooperate, but he didn't end up having to. It sounds like he got medical treatment because of his family connections, instead.

[zulchzulu]

17. There are other articles from US government documents where McCain released US military strategy

It's a can of worms that McCain is loath to have opened.

[katandmoon]

7. The media is too brainwashed (& cowed & partisan - take your pick) to touch this with a 10ft pole...

McCain is a REPUBLICAN.
He'd have to be a Democrat for the media to make any hay out of this admission. If he were a Democrat he would be regularly depicted as a traitor and put on the defensive. Since he's a Republican he gets a free pass.

[PCIntern]

10. Sexual comfort?

This thread is useless without pictures!!

[cliffordu]

19. Yep - of a guy so badly broken and malnourished that all he wants is to take

Ecstacy and screw his Vietnamese nurse.

These rumors are really scummy. He should NEVER be president but leave the POW stuff alone.

[Enrique]

11. this would be a gift to McCain

he is already casting around for distractions from the issues, this one would be the answer to his prayers.

Quoting that code is only convincing to people that don't like McCain. There's no way in hell that someone that sees McCain as a war hero will be affected by this.

[zulchzulu]

15. Going to the heart of McCain's phony "hero" act would make his campaign flail and sink

They may have some preparatory statements initially, but the truth about his collaboration with the enemy will soil his "brand".

The more McCain has to answer for this, the more he will get defensive and angry and make some serious gaffes and embarrassing video responses. It's like baiting the rat with cheese.

[Enrique]

23. Bush went AWOL, and the AWOL attacks didn't hurt him

he went freaking AWOL.

McCain was a POW for five years, and turned down a chance to be released early. No legalistic argument involving a code of conduct is going to besmirch that record, nor should it.

[1Hippiechick]

29. You can't change a Repuke's mind - would hope that this would work with undecideds..... n/t

[Enrique]

31. sure you can

I'm trying all the time to convert republicans and I think this time I'm going to be somewhat successful.

[1Hippiechick]

38. Good for you! The Repukes I encounter have blinders on and refuse to listen to reason. :( n/t

[RamboLiberal]

46. I totally agree with you

This attack would be DUMB for us!

[Arkansas Granny]

13. I would be very hesitant to try to use anything about McCain's POW status

or military career against him. I'm afraid that it will backfire in regards to members of the military and their families. There is plenty about McCain to campaign against without using this.

[zulchzulu]

16. I'm sure members of the military and their families know about the Military Code of Conduct

If the ads are done correctly, their jaws would drop.

[Arkansas Granny]

36. I still think that if we try to use McCain's military service against him, in any manner at all,

that it will backfire.

[cliffordu]

14. Sigh. Apparently you want to get McCain elected.

You cannot get the truth about this out at this late date. He is a legend like John Fucking Wayne and if you think Liberals are vilified now, wait until you try to slime McCain with this.

How about concentrating on the current bumper crop of idiotic missteps, chronic ignorance of the facts and general stupidity.

That's a fine way to just show the world where he is at.

Leave the POW stuff alone.

[zulchzulu]

22. I'd like to see a poll from Americans who know about McCain's POW history

Sure they might know he was a POW. Do they know he collaborated with the enemy within 72 hours of capture and violated Article V of the Military Code of Conduct?

Would they feel sorry for him? I doubt that a majority who didn't know would after finding out the TRUTH.

Since McCain has stepped over the line by questioning Obama's patriotism, it's simply time to smack his ass down. Period.

[cliffordu]

25. Please continue to dismiss how broken his body was and what kind of pain he

had to have been in.

Everybody talks. That's the first thing you learn in SERE. EVERYBODY TALKS.

Maybe you need to volunteer for Obama someplace and stop trying to get McCain elected.

The American people don't want to know the truth. They have thier myth.

And they get crazy dangerous when their myths are threatenend.

And, for my final comment on this-

It won't do Obama a damned bit of good to slime McCain. What needs to happen is to respond immediately to shit like this 'arrogance' meme that's going around. Write emails to the MSM. Blog about THAT.

Or criticize McCain's complete lack of understanding of the facts about anything in the world.

The POW stuff won't work.

[Clintonista2]

56. Zulch is often willing to sink as low as republicans in his attacks

Keep in mind, this is mr. "Clinton let Osama go".

[zulchzulu]

64. Sit on the sidelines and whine... let the professionals do the business needed to be done

Your "concern" is noted.

:rofl:

[TwilightGardener]

18. I couldn't care less about his POW thing, myself. It no longer merits my respect.

However, it would provoke backlash sympathy, which is why this stuff won't get disseminated. A BETTER angle is to make McCain a liar, which he blatantly is--that attacks the "honorable maverick" meme better than anything else. Ads showing all his position changes and lies, making him untrustworthy and dishonorable, using wounded troops politically--THOSE ads should be forthcoming.

[DinahMoeHum]

20. Let's leave this stuff to the 527 org Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain

www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com

These folks are a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty; and they'd just as soon shit on Barack Obama as they would McCain. These same folks also trashed John Kerry in 2004. So, TREAD VERY CAREFULLY with these people - they are not really our allies, but they CAN be our "useful idiots" if we play them right.

:evilfrown:

[zulchzulu]

24. I agree to an extent

They are probably going to come out with this in the Fall, but it would be nice to have another group give them a push...

I know Ted Sampley is itching to attack McCain. He was Sean Hannity's pal in 2004. I wonder what Sean thinks now... :rofl:

[RamboLiberal]

21. Bet a lot of Americans would forgive him that

And how many of us would have held out?

Military is also taught they can cooperate to some extent as long as they don't compromise military security and give info useful to the enemy.

RW'ers are the keyboard commandos. Some of you sound like the keyboard POW's.

This one would be a loser and I'm praying no 527 is stupid enough to try to touch this.

POW, Forrestal and his pilot record are all non-starters. Sorry!

[LiberalFighter]

26. Is there a video or audio of him making the above statements? That would be very effective.

[zulchzulu]

33. I remember seeing video of McCain referring to admitting he gave away info...

There is apparently video of McCain doing up to 30 propaganda ads for the Vietnamese...

[LiberalFighter]

43. Perfect!! How long would McCain's campaign with them being broadcast over and over?

[Happyhippychick]

30. K&R - it ain't swiftboating if it's true.

[ecstatic]

32. Yep. All gloves should be off now. The blatant lie-filled attack ads

were the last straw.

[Straight Shooter]

34. That tactic might have some clout if Obama had served in the military.

But he didn't. Further, McCain was never charged with treason. So don't be opening nasty doors when you have no idea what's going to come out from the other side.

[elkston]

37. Exactly. McCain's military service is a sacred cow. We shouldn't go there. n/t

[Deja Q]

39. Holy shit! Hanoi Jane must be blushing with embarrassment right now.

[Hawkowl]

40. Bringing the gun to the knife fight....finally

This absolutely needs to be done. A 527 attack ad campaign that will cause McCain to abolutely fly in to a rage which can then be used to attack his temperment for being President with his finger on the nuclear button. Democrats can't play nice any more or Obama WILL LOSE. This will severely cripple his bullshit "hero" status. Also throw in he graduated 5th from the bottom from Annapolis and then support it with McCain crashed every plane he ever flew. Add in the only reason he wasn't court martialled was he was an admirals son and grandson. This will completely alienate him from rabid, flag waving pro-war voters especially in the south and rural areas in PA and WV.
Don't believe the polls saving Obama is leading, because the polls include people who THINK they have been registered to vote but actually have been caged and won't find out until the day of the election. The only way to win this election is by a 10 point margin. A margin that is too great to be stolen. And the only way to win that large is with some legitimate negative advertising. Then when McCain stumbles and falls down, keep kicking him, and kicking and kicking him while he's down until the election is over.

[RamboLiberal]

45. More like bringing the gun and shooting Obama's campaign

Won't work against McCain!

[Hawkowl]

50. Won't work against Kerry!

It is all the truth against McCain. Attack. ATTACK. ATTACK!
Not Obama personally, but through surrogates and 527's. Nice guys, who are democrats, do finish last. The republicons will not surrender power without a vicious fight. The last forty years are proof.

[calimary]

42. If Kerry's Vietnam record was fair game, so is this.

Kicking.

Turnabout is fair play.

[RamboLiberal]

44. DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB Strategy

Won't work against McCain. Want to lose the election for Obama let some 527 go there with this.

This kind of thing doesn't work on our side. Remember what happened with the AWOL TANG Bush Attack???????? That was true.

The 60 Minutes Report sure didn't help Kerry or Dan Rather!

The MSM will smear whomever makes this attack on McCain. Many Americans will sympathize with McCain - how many of us could resist torture?????

You don't touch POW's with this one now.

Forget this strategy. And as I've said before I hope no 527 will be dumb enough to go there. The RW and MSM will smear them the way they've managed to smear MoveOn.org

[FogerRox]

59. Exactly, thanks.

[farmbo]

61. Good advice but wrong analogy

The Bush TANG matter was initiated by Rove, not a pro-Kerry 527. Rove leaked documents (through an unknown courier at a Texas cattle show) which were tantalizingly close to the originals, but which contained easily debunk-able defects. Simultaneously the documents were provided to a RW Blogger in Atlanta who "discovered" the latent defect within 20 minutes of when they became public.

They played the MSM like a $20 dollar fiddle.

I tend to agree with you on your advice to stay away from this.

PREDICTION: About mid September we'll see the viral release of a purported McCain propaganda film... which will be demonstrably photo-shopped... and which the McCain campaign will attempt to tie around Obama's neck, amidst Great Gnashing of Teeth over Obama's professed willingness to smear a brave POW.

And it just might work.

You heard it here first, folks.

[faithfulcitizen]

47. It should only come from a surrogate, willing to take the heat ala General Clark.

And Clark's comments weren't nearly as dicey as this. But, in general I agree. It should be said that I would do the same thing and no one can blame a man facing torture, BUT it is nevertheless true.

[FogerRox]

49. He admitted to being a baby killer... so what ? You would have too...

This would be political suicide for Obama.

I know of no veteran who is voting for Obama that would condone this.

Its so not like Obama to even think this, why would you propose something that is so not Obama?


I would leave high level political strategy to those who are actually good at it. Winning in Nov is about knockin on doors and making phone calls.

[symbolman]

51. Ill do it..

between me and Stranger here back in 2000 we practically Invented the online political attack ad.. :)

I got some creds there and I've been saying that someone should do this from the start.. Make that asshole DEFEND his lies. Make his record, graduating nearly LAST, crashing Five planes, calling America a "a great Satan", literally collaberating with the Enemy (like all Bushes, Reagan), etc..

I've seen that footage years ago a searched the web for it.. I think it's been scrubbed, but it's somewhere. This is WAR folks, we need to save this country, our Constitution.. And as posted, they bring guns and WE bring plastic knives..

Here's how you deal with, "but golly! He's been Tortured! Any person would crack under that!"

But he's FOR Torture, and has no excuse, because if he gave up info and rolled over, he's advocating Torture of OUR troops via omission of the Geneva Convention.. So which is it John? Torture is Fine because it worked on YOU (and would on our Troops), or else Your "Hero" status suffers?

This is a Rovian move, and I'd love to employ it with a little help.. I've been on TV arguing with these monsters and would gladly do it again..

Sometimes in a battle you need those fringe fighters starting fires on the sidelines to help your side win..

I've always been THAT guy :)

[zulchzulu]

52. It wouldn't be Rovian since it's the truth!

It certainly can't be linked to the Obama campaign, but it certainly can be all over the MSM...get it out there and let them hand wring over it. By then, the damage is done on McCain.

I want to see McCain go on record defending his lies. His head will explode, figuratively of course.

[Disturbed]

53. McLame is a fraud. He is a corrupt politician. He is an Asshole.

As time goes on it seems that his real personality is becoming more evident to most Americans, in spite of the fact the the US Corp. Media has been protecting him. His Hero status is a fraud. His "false confessions" that he claims that he made after torture were, in fact, not false. He did drop bombs on civilians & civilian installations, knowingly & willingly. Of course, Sen. Obama or any of his team or surrogates cannot even hint at any of this but it will leak out. I feel that it is certainly fair game since McLame is touting his Hero status. Hell, he even named a false football team to pander to possible voters. It was not a mis-speak. It was deliberate. That was despicable but most of the Media ignored it. Yeah, he is slime.

[Disturbed]

54. McCain adjusts POW anecdote for Steel City crowd

Pander Express --... the 1960’s are the GREATEST football team in the HISTORY of the NFL, ...


blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2008/07/pander-express.html

[zulchzulu]

63. Video of McCain admitting he spilled his guts to save his ass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIh7eF17ylE

McCain at 4:20.

[symbolman]

69. Well, the truth is that Anyone would crack under those circumstances..

but the truely terrible thing is that after going through that, that he CONDONES IT.. For a coupla reasons, first he obviously refuses to abide by the Geneva Conventions (McBush anyone?) - which were agreed to by all civilized Nations, as close to morality as you can get, and a Real safe harbor for any country that wants to attack another one, taking the high ground, and deservedly so, because secondly, his refusal to abide, and in effect ACTING as a War Criminal, sets up Our Troops for more of what HE GOT..

Total hypocrisy, and despicable...

Good footage but so slanted and obvious.. There's other footage they've left out where he IS spilling his guts and calls the US, "the great Satan" or some such, like to get some of THAT.. He apparently spilled his guts Before he was tortured by some accounts, did radio for them, turned in other prisoners.. Gotta get factual material like that to go with this kind of footage..

I spotted one stone cold LIE in this footage alone..

Thanks for that, if anyone can post other raw POW stuff and verifiable links please do so, I'd like to put something serious and Viral together on this lousy pilot who graduated at the bottom of his class and was given plane after plane even though he couldn't seem to keep any of those multimillion tax payer funded machines in the sky..

[Geek_Girl]

55. That one's kind of low

Maybe have surrogates do it closer to the election. But only if absolutely nessecary.

[zulchzulu]

65. I mentioned it would be a 527-driven thrust

I assume you know what that means.

[totodeinhere]

57. I would leave this alone if I were you.

We don't need to get into that. We can get McCain on so many issues that this other stuff is not necessary and could backfire.

[FogerRox]

58. Exact-a-mundo

[zulchzulu]

68. As mentioned, I'm talking about independent 527s doing the deal

The Obama campaign can go on as need be.

527s on the Repig side are ready to launch shit against Obama. I say we drill their asses first and stomp on them pronto. Anyone who has followed any of the recent elections know that you have 527s aim at the heart and keep shooting. That's just the way it is.

[TN al]

60. I am ashamed of DU for bringing this up...

... Anyone pointing out that McCain violated the Code of Conduct is just showing that they were never in the military. Holding out for 72 hours is pretty damn good. By then any operational information that McCain might have had was changed anyway. There are a lot of reasons to not vote for McCain. This is not one of them! We're not Republicans and we are not Free Republic! Leave this one alone.

[zulchzulu]

62. There were plenty of POWs who had the balls to maintain the Military Code of Conduct

I've talked about this with Vietnam vets who are DISGUSTED with McCain bragging about his military service.

Google McCain and The Plantation. Your answer is there. McCain was a prisoner at "The Plantation". That was where he and others lived very nicely as long as they helped be part of Vietnam propaganda videos denouncing America.

[TN al]

72. There were plenty of POWs who had the balls to maintain the Military Code of Conduct

You don't know the first thing that you are talking about. Go ahead and throw your bomb and see how far it gets you. You have the most receptive audience you will ever have right here in this forum and look at what you got here.

[symbolman]

70. I joined in '71

USAF, and I disagree..

And if I can pull an ad together broaching this subject, and frying McCain with it I sure as hell Will..

[TN al]

73. And turn McCain into a sympathetic figure?

Everybody is going to talk and everybody who served knows that. If you want to be part of a circular firing squad be my guest. I suspect that if you notified the RNC about your intentions you may get your financing.

[zulchzulu]

67. Another question: why are McCain's military records sealed with no access?

If McCain is such a war hero, why are his records sealed? Let's see the records. If the REPIGS can do it to Kerry, certainly they can handle a little taste of their own medicine...

:shrug:

[JI7]

71. this will only hurt Obama

if you want to go after McCain in this type of way, do it on the Keating 5 thing.