Being the nice guy doesn't win Presidential Elections

[Thrill]

The Obama Campaign had better wake the hell up.

Not one attack ad on McCain. Democrats are always scared to be forceful. Call McCain what he is, a liar. The idiots in this country fall for this crap. New kind of Politics? Please. The old attacking kind is what wins. I would like to know where the hell our donations are going to? They certainly aren't going to attacking McCain.

Sorry I'm just pissed at these weak responses to McCain's lies, that WILL work on voters who swing elections.

Thanks Rant over.

[KittyWampus]

1. I agree and the DU'ers who call us "Concern Trolls" can go jump in a lake.

[beachmom]

2. Obama is a master political tactician. He hasn't been swiftboated.

People need to calm down, and understand how methodical he is.

[The Magistrate]

3. They Do Need To Start Hitting The Old Booger, Sir, No Question....

"More Wars! Less Jobs! McCain '08"

[flaminbats]

72. AMEN!!

time for Obama to hire Ed Schultz to manage his campaign and fire up the war room! taking the high road actually helped Obama in the the primaries, but it will have the opposite effect in November.

The primaries are like a beauty queen contest, but the general election is more like watching a heavyweight wrestling match! Allot of fat but less intelligence usually wins more votes.

[maxsolomon]

4. I trust his campaign at this point.

They haven't made many false steps, and they appear to be carefully executing a deliberate strategy - Obama with Petraeus, Obama & family on the cover of People, Obama shooting hoops with the troops. Images to comfort "the idiots in this country".

The big guns will come out soon enough - but up to the convention, I wouldn't expect too many broadsides - they're treading lightly so they're not seen as beating up on the elderly or "war heroes". Besides, McCain is stubbing his toes every time he takes a step.

[Kokonoe]

5. I can tell you, McCain has won the election.

If you want Obama to win, it will take extraordinary effort to change the future.

[maxsolomon]

6. you forgot this:

:sarcasm:

[Kokonoe]

13. No, thanks for your concern.

Things are not that simple.
But the post is ok.

[JackORoses]

20. is ignorance its own reward?

[Kokonoe]

29. Jack, its not ignorance.

I must admit, its foolish to tell unacceptable truths.

I am not foolish to want Obama for president.

[crankychatter]

47. if you're not registering voters, but whining about the national campaign's judgement

if the foo shitz...

[H2O Man]

66. The sky is falling!

[cliffordu]

67. BWhahahah ha ahah ah hahahahahah. Fock.

Nice try.

[Hamlette]

7. Obama is not Kerry

and he is pushing back.

McCain got so desperate he told a lie last week that the media knew, because they were there, was not true. The media pushed back. McCain has had to admit it was a lie.

So, this news cycle, McCain gets his "I'm a big fat liar" ad run over and over, the media says "hey, wait a minute, that's not what happens" then McCain admits he lied.

Straight talker?

Some members of the pundit class who once supported McCain are very pissed over the ad re: gym/troops/photo op. (see: Andrea Mitchell and Joe Klein.) Now, after 3-4 days saying the ad was true the NYTimes and WP both have articles this AM saying it is a lie and FINALLY McCain has to admit its a lie.

This is NOT like the Swiftboaters. This is the media's little darling calling them, the press, a bunch of suck up, liars.

This new ad will get the same treatment. Lots of press, closer examination, backfire on McCain.

He is not staying "above the fray" like Kerry did. he's pushing back in more subtle ways but its working. (I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some chatter in The Village that led to Andrea calling McCain out on the troops ad. It happened right after her hubby's best friend, Paul O'Neill, went to an economic conference with Obama. Hummmmm. Could The Village be turing blue?

[Thrill]

10. Don't fool yourself. Ads like this WORK on the idiot vote

that is needed to win elections.

[KittyWampus]

11. your version of reality is no in synch w/what actually happened. McCain's ad ran successfully

and there was NO debunking. The one or two mediawhores who did debunk amount to jackshit.

That ad ran and Obama did NOTHING>

The Republicans have successfully defined Obama as arrogant using the compliant Media.

[Hamlette]

65. "did nothing"?????

1. He has an ad out, a good one.

2. McCain is losing his best asset, a fawning press corp.

"He doesn’t realize the damage he is doing to himself because the people he is surrounded with all are telling him this is what needs to be done. You would think at some point he would begin to realize he is damaging his greatest asset, the media subservience he has enjoyed so far, but he has not yet begun to recognize that problem."

http://www.balloon-juice.com/

Obama is a fighter, Kerry was an egg head. The worm is turning with the media.

[ProSense]

8. I've always been fascinated by people who know the best way to win:

Edwards (it was the media's fault), Hillary (it was sexism, the DNC and activists), and the other perfect candidates.

I'm pretty sure they would all be running the perfect attack ads against McCain had they been elected the nominee.

I've seen a number of posts claiming that Obama is Kerry 2. What a crock of shit! This is the same BS talking point that failed to recognize that Kerry ran more ads than Bush in the early part of the campaign and that the later part of the campaign was hindered by public financing and media bias.

Obama has some great ads out there. They run, but they don't get the free coverage that McCain's get. The media will not do it.

The Jed Report and BraveNew Films are out there doing great videos targeting McCain, and they're being circulated. Yesterday, Obama supporters effectively shut down the GOP's mock site BarackBook.com.

Press releases give the media a real statement to include in their bias pieces.

In this media climate, campaign ads alone aren't going to do the trick. Obama has an excellent fundraising machine, but he doesn't have an unlimitted budget to run ads in every market 24/7.

[Thrill]

12. When was the last time you heard Obama compare McCain to Bush?

He should be defining McCain. Not letting McCain define him. They started good. But they are off the right track now.

[Median Democrat]

31. Last Night and This Morning? Bush = McCain

Last night on MSNBC, today on CNN. I did not catch Obama's Missouri speech, but I would not doubt it came up there.

[gblady]

44. it was there....loud and clear

he was in great form at the town meeting...
coming back at the "Obama's risky" spiel with it's risky to keep things as they are...

[KittyWampus]

14. If Obama's ads don't get same coverage MAKE NEW ADS THAT WILL! It's Obama's campaign that sucks

Stop blaming the Mediawhores. They have been in the tank for the Republicans, we know how they operate.

If Obama's team is too fucking stupid to counter that, they are incompetent.

Example, Obama should have demanded McCain apologize for using the wounded troops in Germany as a football.

It would have been "hot" enough to have gotten talked about on the news shows.

[Thrill]

15. If they are hard hitting ads. MSM will play them. Problem is they are shitty Obama ads

WEAK ads. This guy is calling you an idiot. And you come back and say, 'same old politics'. We've seen this movie before. IT DOESN'T WIN

[elkston]

23. I tend to agree. They need to be tougher.

...and use a guy with the deep, commanding voice like in the early McCain videos: "John *MCCAIN*".

Really come out hard and forceful with every lie, misstatement, flip-flop, and tie him to Bush.

[ProSense]

16. Oh BS. If you believe the media is going to give any Obama ads

free air time you haven't been paying attention.

Again, I'm sure you know how to run a better campaign. Maybe you should send your suggestions to the campaign.

[TwilightGardener]

18. I agree--instead of acting like a kicked dog, he or his surrogates should

have been SCREAMING for an apology, making sure all of America knows that McShitbag is playing politics with wounded troops. The problem is, Obama is honorable. The GOP is counting on him to be honorable and play fair, knowing full well that outrageous lying and insidious smears and imagery are the best (and cheapest) way to knock him down, because THAT is what the media reports on. The media doesn't give free air time to lengthy and boring (though factual) explanations. The media does NOT dwell on issues, the American people are semi-retarded and elect based on gut and impressions--issues are secondary.

[JackORoses]

26. This time Honor will prevail. Don't sell yourself short.

If this wasn't the case, Hillary would be the nominee.

People want something different. They are tired of Dishonorable Men.

[TwilightGardener]

27. No, I'm sorry, as long as the American people still view McCrazy as honorable, then

we're screwed. Obama has to challenge his honor, wreck his reputation, make him look really, really bad, old, angry, and confused. We need a Dem swiftboat team (no, NOT MoveOn, they are ineffective at best), and we need to fight the attacks against Obama with forceful ads, surrogates, and a media push. Defense AND offense, in other words.

[JackORoses]

36. don't you understand that McCain is doing this himself?

With every Lie, Flip-Flop, and Angry, Flustered Statement he moves further from the McCain of 2000 and closer to every other moronic Repuke that the Public despises.

Obama is keeping the pressure on and allowing McCain to reveal himself before the Public.
We could tell people a million times about the lies and crooked deeds that John McCain does, but some won't believe it until they witness it.
Seeing is believing.

There is still alot of time until the Election.
McCain has had to go Super-Negative long before the usual time.
He will be defined by this.

Everybody keeps saying that Obama needs to define McCain.
And he is, by taking actions which lead McCain to react predictably.

By November, McCain will be viewed akin to Rumplestiltskin by the American Public.

[TwilightGardener]

38. I don't know. The uglier Hillary's campaign got, the more states she started to win--

exit polls showed people thought she was a negative campaigner and was being unfair, and she still won a lot of those later primary states. This proves that negativity works, to some extent. I think Obama should remain positive (by focusing on issues), but that doesn't mean his campaign can't launch some attacks too.

[JackORoses]

40. but you have to consider the states in question.

They were supposed to go to Hillary. She just used negativity to run up the score.

You might also consider that as she went more and more negative, polling showed Obama would have won earlier states like California had their Primaries been held then.

*

I agree, Obama should remain positive. Any criticism aimed at McCain should be issue-driven

These last 2 ads by McCain are absolute crap. Let's hope he keeps it up.
People tire of crap quickly. Especially when they've already been forced to wallow in it for 8 years.

[PlanetBev]

9. I just posted this same thought earlier, Brent

and I got flamed for it by someone else.

I completely agree with you. I'm starting to see the same fucking thing I've seen for the last 20 years. Why are the Dems so afraid to fight back? Do they like to lose?

Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, Obama, how many more bodies do we have to bury? I'm sorry, but there's a reason that the Pukes win...vicious attack ads work.

[book_worm]

17. The polls will be up and down and no reason to panic every time he is down a couple of points in a

tracking poll.

[Whisp]

19. This might calm you down...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6554257

Another excellent piece by H2O:
The Harder they Fall

[Kokonoe]

35. Counter punch

Its time.
Obama may have abs of steel, but if he waits till it hurts, he has lost.

[Whisp]

37. timing is everything.

and I've learned that the Obama camp is way smarter than the average bear, so I will just sit back and see what they have planned, because they do have it all planned.

My guess is they want the Europe trip jabber to slow down a bit so as not to interfere with their Jab.
somewhere between that and before the Olympics start .

so i figure the punch will happen fairly soon, and it will send McCane and his media lackey asshole traitors reeling. but in a nice way. ;)

[Kokonoe]

42. I guess, since those media traitors are throwing the punches.

:D

[KittyWampus]

46. the European trip jabber turned into McCain telling America Obama dissed the troops

[Whisp]

50. let McCane bury himself. some are coming around to the truth on that now.

Obama can sit back and watch McCane hurt his own self better that any attack ad from the obama camp could, at this point in time.

McCane has nothing or next to nothing to sell - and is spending what little he has recklessly. He will be spent in a short time - how many times can his empty sack of words be replayed over and over until November?

He's got nothing.

Nothing. Zip.

cept the media licking his ass but even the mighty media has to bow to the little people sometime.
I think a flood of 'WTF kind of coverage is this? emails' could do wonders.

Maybe that's in Obama plan - to release his grassroots hounds (meant in a good way) upon the media. A directive like that would be sweet. imagine thousands and thousands of outraged people even ourtraging Lou Dobbs, for ex. Obama knows the score of what he's up against and will find a way to fight back. I know he will.

[KittyWampus]

45. politics is NOT boxing. Boxing involves referees and judges who are fair. Democrats find

neither today.

[H2O Man]

68. That you are unfamiliar

with boxing shows.

[H2O Man]

73. PS:

I didn't have time to finish my post last night. But: boxing sometimes involves a good referee, and there are a few good judges. But that is not always the case. The promoter of a fight is in the position to select the referee and judges (top fighters can negotiate before signing for a fight). Thus, in many if not most cases, those officials are working for the promoter. If they want to be re-hired for the next card, they will tend to reflect the will of the promoter. Although I love boxers, and have the greatest respect for most fighters I have had the pleasure to know, the sport is as corrupt as politics. And there are judges so dishonest that they could make the USSC justices who installed Bush as president blush.

[Guaranteed]

57. Agreed, H2O Man was dead on there. nt

[paulk]

Obama is a rookie and it's showing

he's a weak candidate and he's going to need every bit of help he can muster to win this thing.

[elkston]

24. He's not a *WEAK* candidate. He just needs to be stronger in THIS aspect. n/t

[paulk]

28. he's the only candidate from either party since George

McGovern to win the nomination without having won a majority of the eight largest states in the primaries. McGovern won three - Obama won a single state - his home state of Illinois.

He barely stumbled across the finish line despite outspending his opponent two to one overall (and toward the end by three and four to one) - and that only because he got a push from behind courtesy of Howard Dean and the DNC.

Despite polls leading into the campaign where a generic Dem defeated a generic Repub by 20 points he is barely able to stay ahead of McCain, and has actually been losing ground these last few weeks.

That's a weak candidate by any real world measure. With the Republican brand in the toilet and a Republican candidate who is promising four more years of the same - this race shouldn't even be close.

[LowerManhattanite]

30. Ah-rroooooo-gah!

(Griefer siren sound) :)

[paulk]

33. I hope you're still smiling this November...

strategy in politics generally entails more than sticking your head in the ground.

[elkston]

34. Factors beyond his control: His skin color, his name, racism in America

This is the reason the polls are close. If you want to add that to his "weakness", fair enough.

But in every other area where it counts -- his merits, his ability to lead, his commitment to winning, you cannot fault him.

EDIT:
Note that McCain is really peaking. He can't break out either. Things can ONLY go up for Obama, and they will.

[paulk]

53. those "factors" will factor in...

the Bradley effect is real. We've already seen it in the primaries - where obama did better in exit polls than he did in the real tally. IOW - people lie. Subtract 5% from Obama's polling state by state and be worried.

the ones you list are all a matter of opinion and can be manipulated by the press. I don't see how they're relevent.

[karynnj]

39. Could that be because he faced a very tough opponent?

You can't have it both ways. Either HRC was a very strong candidate, only marginally weaker than Obama or she was a weak candidate because she was defeated by a candidate you think is weak. She lost, so she is weaker. Add in, that she started with more name recognition, more of the Democratic party's moneymen and strategists and many supporters in the media.

[paulk]

52. I think Clinton was the stronger GE candidate

which is why she won 7 of the 8 largest states. Primaries in those states more closely mirror the general election than caucuses in small states do - and that's where Obama won this nomination. So I reject your assumption out of hand.

[SoonerPride]

58. She couldn't even beat a weak candidate, so how strong is she?

Your logic fails.

[politicasista]

59. Good question n/t

[paulk]

61. she consistantly did better vs McCain in electoral college

matchups. This has held true even in the most recent polling where, if she is added to the ticket the ticket does better vs McCain than Obama alone.

That's how strong she was and is. The point I'm making has nothing to do with your weak attempt at sophistry.

[SoonerPride]

63. If she can't win a primary how does that make her stronger in the GE?

Current electoral college predictions show Obama winning 380 to 120 in a landslide of epic proportions.

I'd point you to the daily math widget of phrigndumass and grantcart if you need help.

I supported Clinton until it became apparent she ran in inept campaign. I hardly think her campaign and inability to manage her finances translates well into a GE campaign. Her whole organization was inept and she couldn't keep Bill on a leash. It was an epic fail.

Sorry, but the better, stronger candidate won.

[paulk]

71. well, for starters the GE isn't a caucus.

Obama won 13 red state caucuses by a two to one or greater margin. His delegate lead comes from that. He ran a brilliant primary campaign, if you want to look at it that way. Hillary fucked up because she placed her emphesis on large primary states. Hillary fucked up because she was running a general election campaign during a primary. The problem is this - the general election is not going to be decided in red caucus states - it's going to be decided in the large primary states - which Hillary won - and that's why I say that she would have been a stronger GE candidate - and that is backed up by the polling at the time where she consistantly did better than Obama vs McCain in electoral college matchups.

As for phrigndumass and grantcart, their rose colored glasses are so thick I'm surprised they haven't cracked their heads walking into a door yet. This election is going to be close.

[karynnj]

74. She would not have won NJ and CA if they were in April per polls done then

They were superTuesday states and they were sufficiently early that HRC with all the party machines (at least in NJ) and name recognition won, but had the election been earlier, she would have won by far more.

The primaries also exclude the Republicans and in some states independents. HRC had less support than Obama here. In addition, you need to look at the head to head matches because it is very possible that people who prefer HRC to Obama will prefer Obama to McCain (and the same if you switch Obama and HRC).

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DailyGrind51]

21. I have been a Chicagoan for some 57 years and know Obama's

political mentors IL State Senate President Emil Jones and Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, both not afraid of using whatever was necessary to win elections. While Obama apprenticed under these two political, albeit corrupt, mentors, Obama had to walk softly and pay attention. However, Obama is no longer their apprentice, the "gosling following Mother Goose", he is the "bull-goose in the barnyard" now and has to show that he knows what that means. Would either of his mentors put up with the crap that McCain is throwing? Hell, no!

However, it is not all Obama's fault. He needs an attack dog, a James Carville, to head a "rapid response" initiative to hit the media when McCain's lies make prime time. Other Party leqders are at fault too, for not aggressively attacking McCain's character flaws.

If "taking the high road" worked, we would have had Presidents Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry. Be presidential while governing but a street brawler while campaigning.

[President Decider]

22. TIMING IS EVERYTHING ...

As I mentioned to "the sky is falling" crowd yesterday, just becasue you are in tune with what's going on in politics right now doesn't mean the majority of American is .... Fact is, they are NOT!

Most people aren't listening to the rhetoric right now because its still summer, nobody is watching summer programming on TV (it sucks!), the kids are still out of school and vacations are still going on, etc.

In about a month, you'll see and hear much more out of the Obama camp. You'll see how he decided to spend some of that advertising dollar and you'll be glad he waited until the rest of his political audience arrived and is now listening.

[KittyWampus]

48. a month from now the mediawhores will have firmly helped define Obama. Same as Kerry

[chitty]

25. McCain paid to run his attack ad about the

wounded vets 12 times.

How many times did the MSM run the goddamned thing? 500 - 1000?

Even with some of the heads proclaiming this ad to be false, he still had many, many impressions for no cost.

We cannot let this continue to happen.

[Median Democrat]

32. Big Media Talking Point #2435 - Democrats Lose Not Due To Media Bias, But Because They Don't Attack

Sorry you are falling for this misdirection all over again. KO has commented on it. We have commented on it. Big Media simply refuses to cover these Democratic attacks. You fail to explain how Democrats can get Fox News or other Big Media to cover such attacks.

[DFLforever]

41. Maybe so. But you have to APPEAR to be a nice guy to win

That's the critical mistake McCain is making here. He himself is attacking Obama directly in these ads, not waiting on the swift boaters to do it.

Bush/Rove would never make that mistake, knowing it could damage his image as well. And that is just what McCain is doing to himself with these ads.

[Born_A_Truman]

49. Another thread about going negative.

Am I the only one who thought Obama's message of change and a different kind of campaign and politics meant NOT acting just like McCain?

I guess so.

[depakid]

51. If it means that, it also means losing another election

That's just political reality, whether we (or the Obama campaign) likes that fact or not is irrelevant.

Once he does what it takes to be elected, he can play the different kind of politics game all he wants (and see how far it gets him with Congress).

[StevieM]

54. The campaign hasn't really fully begun. A lot of Americans don't start paying attention until

the Conventions. I am sure that after the Conventions are over in early September there will be two months of hard hits from both sides.

Steve

[Cha]

55. Yeah, have you contacted the Obama campaign with your

statements or just ranting here?

http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2

[Guaranteed]

56. No, but being the strong guy does. McCain is painting himself with desperation.

Obama is doing fine. This is all sour grapes because Obama is going to win and everyone knows it.

[Awsi Dooger]

60. Obama is doing fantastic

I hated his arrogance in speeches late in the campaign but he's marvelous in dismissing McCain with short memorable sound bytes.

This isn't 2004. Drill that into your head. Kerry lost due to situational disadvantage, facing an incumbent with his party in power only one term. The Swift Boat crap was meaningless, a convenient reference point for dunces who want to believe every cycle is created equal.

A nice guy absolutely can win in a climate like this. Regardless, Obama has been anything but a nice guy. The smack down commercials will come later, to max impact. It's pointless and masochistic to flail at McCain when McCain is having one horrid week after another on his own. Once the electorate is engaged and making up its mind on Obama, there will be a reinforcement ad campaign brutalizing McCain.

[RayOfHope]

62. I went to his speech today. Obama is WIDE awake. He was razor sharp and pulled no punches

when it came to McCain. He isn't running against bush. He made the point OVER and OVER and OVER that mclame is attacking him, yet has not told us what he (mclame) believes in. Said he's too busy focusing on Obama. Obamahad a wonderful balance of facts (how sucky mclame is) and what he himself believes in. Now the question is, how much of this will the media report? That, unfortunately, is out of Obama's control.

[Carrieyazel]

64. Its happening slowly. Obama is getting hit on "unfit" and "arrogant" by McCain

and the Obama campaign's responses are the weakest crap I've heard. Axelrod called into MSNBC to "show his outrage" and it sounded like he was nervously laughing. I had to turn it off.

This is the first ad that really viciously attacks Obama, and the responses are weak-ass pathetic, even weaker than on the previous ads. Dissappointing to say the least.

[AlinPA]

69. Obama needs to hit back hard on the "he wants to lose a war..." crap.

He should just say that McCain is calling him a traitor and unpatriotic. Say it in an ad.

[Bonobo]

70. You're wrong, but I'm not that surprised.

After 8 years of black/white digital politics, few people can handle subtle thinking and clever strategems. They (and you) can't even recognize them.

Obama, fortunately, knows better than you about how to win this election. How could you doubt the man? He came from NOWHERE to take this thing, while you are an anonymous DU poster.

Why on EARTH would anyone think YOU know more than HE does?

[quantass]

75. Kicked...i am Canadian and i watch in frustration

[raebrek]

76. I think he is letting McCain fire all of his guns now.

Then as the election draws near and McCain's financing bucket starts to dry up then Obama can do all the advertising he wants. Thus ending it with a media blitz when McCain runs out of dough.

Raebrek!!!