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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:31 PM
Original message
Does Josh Marshall know something?
the topmost entry on his blog says simply:

"Eagleton"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/211764.php

For those of you who don't know what this means...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Eagleton
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Abacus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. "Eagleton?"
Less a statement than a question I think.

:popcorn:
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's speculation. Here's a fuller-fleshed version....
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. The entry says "Eagleton?"

I wonder...

Man, what a trip that would be.
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. ooooo...I still have a chance!!
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. ROLF. Carrie, is that you!?
:rofl:
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. hiccup
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 12:10 AM by Turn CO Blue
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
6. dupe
Edited on Sat Aug-30-08 11:37 PM by asSEENonTV
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Could it simply mean that Sarah Palin hasn't been properly
vetted?
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Maybe, but I'm just wondering
if he's heard some griping from Repug higher ups...
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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Perhaps
due to few qualifications and poor vetting.

But as I recall removing Eagleton was probably more costly to McGovern than choosing him in the first place.

Unless they can get her to withdraw for 'family reasons', I think the Repubs will tough it out.
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. It's entirely possible.
The rethug powers that be are concerned not only about losing the WH but also that the dems will increase their majorities in Congress and in state races as well.

If the picture becomes more grim as Palin's deficiencies become apparant to more and more people, those powers that be might conclude that replacing the VP on the ticket will be necessary. Not because they think they can retain the WH, but to limit the downticket damage.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
10. the doddering ol' fool can't even keep a lame VP for a week?!
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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wow... Are they already going to dump her?
I assume that's what "Eagleton" refers to: Picking a poorly-vetted VP candidate then replacing them in mid-campaign. That would be the death-knell for McCain 2008, I think.

On a side note, according to Wikipedia, Eagleton was only chosen after everyone else in contention said no to the job. Another parallel?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yup - a public admission of his inability to make Presidential decisions.
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
13. Ah, what the hell...
I'll throw this into the mix....tinfoil probably but fun to think of her public vetting throwing Mcgrandpa into a tizzy.


http://members.aol.com/deawatch/daily.htm

29 Aug 2008, 18:17,

I realize you folks at DEA Watch want to be equal in doing the recent presidential surveys identical, but according to my pal Mike your McCain-Palin survey might have been a bit too premature... Mike reports that certain Republican candidates who were bested by McCain are putting a lot of pressure on him to withdraw her name before the Convention. Mike reports that the McCain camp is now completely panicked because they see his decision being criticized for poor judgement. I will keep you posted on this matter. But it looks like Palin will have to withdraw herself very soon because the oncoming publicity will "distract from John's important campaign."

Mike also reported that one of McCain's senior campaign advisors said: "If we have to dump her we'll have to make it look like the pressure came from the Obama campaign... and they did it because they are against women. We might be able to use this as another Obama attack on Hillary and all women. If we handle this right it can be a win-win situation where either way because if we have to dump Sarah we can get women voters to hate Obama."


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democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Who's Mike? Did I miss who they were talking about?
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 12:22 AM by democrat2thecore
In fact, I call bullshit because of the last statement. That's so absurd and no McCain adviser would tell that to anyone.
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Apparently the "Mike" guy is a friend/acquaintance of the person
who posted the message. No previous reference at all. The poster is making it look like that his friend Mike has some inside info from the repuke camp.
Who knows. Might be a bunch of BS. Just thought it was funny how the thought of her dropping out (or being dumped) has spread to every website imaginable.
I still subscribe to the "I've become a distraction so I'm outta here".




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democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. ahhhh....gotcha -nt
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-08 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. I actually don't like that
Thomas Eagleton was a very good man, who was a very good Senator. At some point in his life he suffered from depression and had the then standard treatment. The problems with Palin involve abuse of power - not an illness. I assume that he is just referring to the nominee being unpleasantly surprised about something in the VP's history.

At this point, I know little of Palin, but from what I do know - she is not Senator Eagleton. Here is what Senator Kerry said in the Senate at the time of his death. As you can see, many here would love a current Senator who did those things. That he is most remembered because he had a bout of depression is pathetic.

From the Senate record:

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, Missouri's own Harry Truman once said:

A politician is a man who understands government. A statesman is a politician who has been dead for 10 years.

Somehow, another son of Missouri, Senator Tom Eagleton , managed to be both a keen master of government and a statesman in his own lifetime, as well as a dear friend of many in this Chamber. On this past Sunday, Tom passed away at age 77.

Tom Eagleton was a man who radiated wit, warmth, and a brand of intellectual and moral seriousness that
commanded respect, even as he won the affection of all those around him. A Senator and a statesman, a humanitarian and a humorist, Tom left his indelible mark on the issues that mattered most to him. His proudest accomplishment in a superb career in public life, and in the Senate particularly, was an amendment to cut off funds for America's disastrous bombing of Cambodia. He was also a principal author of the Senate's War Powers Resolution, which sought to dramatically limit the President's ability to commit forces abroad without the consent of Congress.

Ever true to his principles, Tom voted against the version that was reported by the conference committee, which he believed the executive would ultimately exploit as a 60-day blank check to use armed force. Over President Nixon's veto, and without Senator Eagleton's vote, the bill was passed. As usual, Tom Eagleton's concerns proved only too prescient.

Senator Eagleton was a fierce and passionate critic of the Vietnam war, and he worked tirelessly to end that conflict. In 1971 he made a statement before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, one that I remember. It came about 3 weeks or so after I had been privileged to testify to that committee. He made an argument that resonates as clearly today as it did at the time he made it. He spoke of the need to set a firm date for withdrawal.

In an essay he wrote entitled ``Whose Power Is War Power,'' he quoted Justice Story:

In a Republic, it should be difficult to make war and easy to make peace.

And yet, he said:

In Vietnam, war came easy and peace comes hard.

His words ring equally true of the war in Iraq, a war he fervently opposed from the outset.

For a brief period of time, for the 2 years our careers overlapped in the Senate, I had the privilege of working closely with Tom. He was as decent and as humble as he was passionate. I remember, when I first came to the Senate in 1985, Tom and I were unlikely seatmates, the two most recent additions to the Foreign Relations Committee. He wrote a letter, spontaneously, to Senator Pell, then the committee chair. If there was an opportunity for him to serve as a ranking minority Democrat on a subcommittee, he said: ``I would prefer to forego in favor of Senator Kerry.''

It was a magnanimous gesture that impressed me enormously, and also made a difference to my early involvement in the Foreign Relations Committee. In a place where seniority counts--then a lot more than even today, where prerogatives matter--and sometimes far too much, it was unusual to defer to a freshman Senator as he did. But that was Tom Eagleton .

Tom's collegiality didn't stop at the aisle. One of his great friends in the Senate was his junior Senator, his colleague from Missouri, Republican Senator John Danforth. He championed Jack's nomination to become U.N. Ambassador and the two cooperated on countless issues, most recently as ex-Senators, cochairing Missouri's stem cell initiative to protect all forms of stem cell research allowed under Federal law. They were friends for 40 years, and colleagues in the Senate for 10. They showed a spirit of bipartisan cooperation too often missing from today's politics.

On so many issues, Tom Eagleton was a trailblazer and a visionary. He helped to write the Clear Air Act of 1970 and the Clean Water Act of 1972, foundations of today's environmental protection regime.

He was among the few in the Senate to oppose the Reagan tax cuts as he said: ``Once again, once again,'' shouting in his famous baritone, ``largesse to the rich.''

As he left Washington 20 years ago, he sounded an early warning that there was too much money in American politics, and he was a staunch critic of the Iraq war, from its initial walkup to the present.

Tom Eagleton blazed other trails as well. In 1956 he became the youngest circuit attorney in the history of St. Louis, a record that still stands. And in 1960, when he ran for Missouri attorney general on the same ticket as another Catholic, John F. Kennedy, he held his ground when anti-Catholic bigots scrawled graffiti over his campaign posters. Tom Eagleton , in all of his career, never lost a Missouri election in his entire life.

Tom's pre-Senate career took him from the Navy to the district attorney's office to the lieutenant governorship. I might add, parenthetically, it happens to be the exact same course I followed. He was the youngest Lieutenant Governor in Missouri's history. I empathized personally with his quip that Missouri's No. 2 spot was good for standing at the window and ``watching the Missouri River flow by.''

Tom Eagleton was a quick wit, but he was also a man fully committed to living by his conscience, whether it led him to take conservative positions on social issues or even to censure a colleague from his own side of the aisle after ethical lapses. As the Senate debated ousting a Democratic Senator who had been convicted of bribery and conspiracy, Senator Eagleton was firm. He said, ``We should not perpetrate our own disgrace by asking him to remain.'' He loved justice, and it is fitting that the Federal courthouse in downtown St. Louis now bears his name.

In 1968, his commitment to reform led him to challenge a sitting Democratic Senator whose record, many believed, was tarnished by corruption. After the race, his defeated opponent said bitterly:

The man who builds a house on public service builds it of straw and on sand.

But Tom Eagleton proved that wrong. He retired in 1987 with the love and admiration of millions in his home State of Missouri and across the country. When he announced in 1984 that he would not seek reelection to a fourth term, his statement was full of the same personal humility that had led him to hand over his seniority to a freshman Senator. He declared that ``public offices should not be held in perpetuity'' and added that he had enjoyed ``a full and complete career.''

As his colleague Dale Bumpers of Arkansas said:

Tom's goal was never to be carried out of the Senate in a pine box. He chose his career in politics because he considered it the best place from which to promote justice, nobility, freedom and dignity.

When Tom announced he would not seek reelection, the Kansas City Star summed up the legacy he was leaving behind:

Senator Thomas F. Eagleton is the kind of politician the system is supposed to produce but so rarely does. He has elevated the job of politics because he does not accept the conventional denigration of politics. He believes it is a noble profession, and in the hands of such as himself, it is exactly that.

In the two decades since he left the Senate, Tom never let go of his indefatigable sense of justice, his unique sense of humor, his taste for politics, or his love of Missouri. Once, after a ``Meet the Press'' appearance a few years ago that I was on, Tom sent me a handwritten note afterward. He said that while he thought I ``demolished'' my Republican counterpart, I really ``should have knocked his toupee off his head.'' That was Tom Eagleton , always seeing the humorous or absurd, and he sent a lot of Senators personal notes such as that over the years that made us laugh. He was the point man for the effort that wooed the Rams football team from Los Angeles to St. Louis, and even Tom was stunned by the affection that football fans showed him on the streets of St. Louis--particularly after the Rams' Super Bowl victory in 2000.

After a plane crash killed Governor Mel Carnahan, the Missouri Democratic nominee for the Senate in October 2000, it was Senator Eagleton who took the lead in knocking down spurious claims that it would be illegal to keep Carnahan's name on the November ballot.

In addition to his three books, Tom wrote over 50 op-eds for his hometown newspaper after leaving the Senate at age 57. He truly believed in the word ``citizenship.''

In the last of those op-eds, published November 3, 2005, Senator Eagleton was candid in his analysis of the current disaster in Iraq. He wrote:

Hubris is always the sword upon which the mighty have fallen.

And:

From here on, any President will have to level with the American people before going to war.

Tom Eagleton loved the Senate. He loved this institution. He was an expert in its rules and procedures and he believed in the constitutional power to make decisions of war and peace. In addition to his most famous book, ``War and Presidential Power: A Chronicle of Congressional Surrender,'' he also coauthored a textbook for high school students called ``Our Constitution and What It Means.'' Most of all, you could see the pleasure he took from simply being here.

Above all, Tom Eagleton loved his family, his home State of Missouri, and the St. Louis Cardinals. At one point he even considered applying to become the Commissioner of Major League Baseball, but he couldn't give up his Senate seat as long as Missouri had a Republican Governor to appoint his successor.

This January, Tom celebrated his 50-year anniversary with his wonderful wife Barbara. Together they raised two children, Terence and Christy, and three grandchildren. Tom Eagleton was the quintessential family man. He never stopped giving. He gave his life to serving his State and his country, and when he died he left instructions that his body was to be given to Washington University for medical research.

Senator Tom Eagleton lived a full and remarkable life, and all of his colleagues and all the country will miss him dearly. He died with no regrets. ``My ambition,'' he said, ``since my senior year in high school was to be a Senator.''

Not everybody achieves their ambition. Tom Eagleton actually did a lot more than that. He achieved his own ambitions and earned the love and enduring respect of millions. Along the way, he inspired so many of us, not least of all the no-longer-freshman Senator from Massachusetts who, 23 years later, rises sadly and proudly to pay tribute to the man who once gave up his seniority but never gave up his principles.


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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Oh sweet christ.
This isn't a slam by Josh Marshall against Eagleton. It looks like he's speculating that she may be withdrawn like Eagleton. That's all.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I know that - it's just that I hate that his name is used as shorthand for that
I also doubt that McCain will do that - it means admitting he made a mistake, and like Bush - he might be unwilling to do that. It also may be that he things the problems won't amount to much and that she will help the ticket. (It might be he has no good choices.)
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. and had Eagleton TOLD the vetters, they might have not asked him
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 12:39 AM by SoCalDem
EVERYTHING matters when you are going into presidential combat.. NOTHING is "off the table" or too insignificant to magnify..

Eagleton's trouble was not that he had that in his past...it was that any hint of mental illness was too "scary" for most people, and it would (and did) eliminate him..

It was always HIS choice to accept the offer..he gambled that no one would find out or that no one would care.. he was wrong on both counts./.

Palin may end up using the baby as an excuse to bow out AFTER the convention, and they'll slip Jebbie or Newt into the slop....maybe even after the debates.. That's what happened out her with Ahhhhhnold.. he came at us so fast, there was not enough time to slap him down..
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democrat2thecore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. Well, it's kind of like Dan Quayle - it's a travesty they're comparing her to HIM
Think about it: Quayle served a few terms in the U.S. House and was a two term U.S. Senator from Indiana. If I was Quayle, I would be quite offended by being compared to the Governor (for 18 months) of Alaska and a small town mayor.

I know Quayle is a Republican, but really....this lady makes Dan Quayle look like Thomas Jefferson.
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DarthDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
29. Jesus - - Wow

Sorry for the sidetrack, but that elegy moved me to tears. Tom Eagleton was a great man, and I for one am delighted that the federal courthouse in St. Louis - - home to the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit as well as the local federal district courts - - bears his name. For those of you who haven't seen it, it's a gorgeous, soaring high-rise building that is visible from almost any seat in the Cardinals' new baseball stadium. His accomplishments were astounding, and John Kerry's oratory was just beautiful. Between this and Kerry's fanastically-written and delivered speech this past week, I'm saddened for what might have been.

Thanks, karynnj, for posting that.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. No, he doesn't.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
22. Must be the internal polling,
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Republicans even think Mccain's a loon
:)
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Seen the light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. I completely agree n/t
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
28. Are we talking SHOCK TREATMENT?
I want to know more
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. nope.. just that she'll fold under pressure, and probably use the baby
as an excuse to bolt..and run back to the obscurity of the far north :)
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