Why would someone enjoy shooting a moose FOR FUN?

[Colobo]

Regardless if you are going to eat it or not, I don't see how killing an animal can be enjoyed by someone, unless that person likes blood, violence and to cause pain. I saw the picture of Palin with her kid and the bloodied, dead moose, and the images of brutal dictatorships like the Argentine Junta came to my mind- they enjoyed torturing people for months or till they died, or just throwing them alive to the river, and I see in Palin someone that enjoys something similar- the suffering and death of an animal.

I don't want that woman in office.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Yes, I've wondered that all my life...

The very nerve!






:kick:

[mwb970]

92. Me too.

Even as a child, the idea of "hunting" sounded cruel and sick to me. It still does.

[Youphemism]

2. Maybe the moose showed blatant disrespect or cut her off in traffic...

We really need to know more about the circumstances to know why she wanted that moose dead. Maybe it knew too much.

[MarjorieG]

3. This is very Cicely. Cultural thing we can't make fun of. Sportmen for Obama.

[madeline_con]

5. It's not sport. Native Alaskans who need it to survive get a pass.

No one else has any business killing Alaskan wildlife.

[AkFemDem]

74. Wrong

Do you eat meat? If you do, then you have no room to talk. Those little pattys were once living animals you know.

How do you imagine those little hamburger patties get up here anyway? I will tell you- on a plane or on a barge, so you would have us add to the gross over consumption of fossil fuels to apease the weak stomachs of people thousands of miles away.

It costs a lot of money to use all that oil to get those patties to major ports and towns in Alaska. A huge number of us live in bush villages though and those patties then get flown on small bush planes and more fuel is used. By the time the product gets to our small stores, we are paying 4X the lower 48 cost for those patties. All of this to get meat that has growth hormones, antibiotics, and contains parts from hundreds of other animals making detection of disease like e-coli all the more difficult. No thank you. I'd rather I or my husband just shoot a moose and feed our family for the next 6 months.

[madeline_con]

78. Yes, I eat meat. But not wild moose.

Don't make it out like it's about a "weak stomach." If I want mooose, I can get farm raised. I don't have to mess up the balance in the Alaskan wilderness to prove I'm outdoorsy.

[AkFemDem]

79. mess up the balance?

What does that mean? Moose are so plentiful they can be found wandering in downtown Anchorage. The only natural predator of full grown moose, bear, greatly outnumber humans in the state. There is no "upset balance". If you'd like to upset the balance what you do is ship/fly up a bunch of farmed meat. Those burning fossil fuels will mess up a lot more than the normal Alaskan family's game intake.

[madeline_con]

80. Bear should outnumber humans in Alaska.

Moose are walking around in downtown Anchorage because downtown Anchorage used to be moose habitat. You're the interlopers.

You're concerned about fossil fuels messing things up. Will you give up your stipend to help protect Alaska from environmental damage when production increases?

[pipoman]

112. And the ENTIRE FUCKING Florida peninsula wasn't habitat for centuries

before you fucked it up? How many gators have been killed to provide your safe postage stamp of habitat? Seems you have plenty close to home to worry about without shitting on someone else's lunch.

[AkFemDem]

114. Are you serious? This is the last FRONTIER for a reason

You're not living in a fucking frontier, you're living in Flor-i-daze. You don't have a leg to stand on here.

FTR I don't live in Anchorage, I live in a smaller bush town. I don't collect a "stipend" (or are you talking about the PFD? Why would I give up my trust dividends?? Are you giving up much of your income for environmental causes) I'm living a helluva lot closer to earths natural habitat than you, I guarantee it. I forage my own berries, grow most of my own root veggies, and yes- hunt and fish my own meat. We have solar panels and hydro power, we recycle the old fashioned way- we reuse shit over and over and over out of necessity. There has been no slash and burn farming, no pop up housing developments, we're not even on the road. So don't get on your soap box and tell me about natural habitat and enviro-friendly living. You don't have a clue.

[pipoman]

119. Sounds like she should be buying her carbon credits from you

you probably have many to spare. :hi:

[Life Long Dem]

85. Wrong.

You have it in reverse. Actually sportsmen help keep the balance. If game become over populated they pose a danger to people on the highways and cause problems in cities. You see more and more animals running through city streets because of people like you wanting to restrict the sport of hunting.

[moriah]

84. Welcome to DU!

I may have never killed a moose, but I have eaten quite a bit of venison in my day, being an Arkansan.

I know a lot of people who enjoy hunting. It is not enjoying the actual KILL, but the watch for the deer, the skill to aim well and have a clean kill instead of just wounding a deer, etc. My brother-in-law is very fond of bow-and-arrow deer hunting because "anyone can kill a deer with a rifle".

People enjoy fishing too.

Please be aware that with all of the current controversy and a history on DU of people coming here to "troll" (and if you are a hunter/fisher you are familiar with the origins of the term), that this may not be the most welcoming time period for newcomers. I'm sorry to put it that way, but it's true.

Enjoy your stay and if you are a true Democrat, you are very welcome here.

[mwb970]

93. Would taking a great picture of the prey be equally satisfying?

>> It is not enjoying the actual KILL, but the watch for the deer, the skill to aim well and have a clean kill instead of just wounding a deer, etc.

All of this would also apply to nature photography, substituting "great picture" for "clean kill". If the killing isn't the point, why do it?

[moriah]

102. Because venison is tasty, and there are so many deer here that thinning them out ...

... is not that bad of a thing.

Humans have affected the balance of nature, but it's not deer that have suffered as much (well, here in Arkansas), except for overpopulation.

We have driven away the wolves. We have driven away the bears. We have driven away the mountain cats and the other large predators that also find venison quite tasty. Mainly because they might also find humans quite tasty (or at least that's what people are afraid of), people don't complain about the fact that wolves and cougars are considered completely banished from my state -- to the point that when a mountain cat actually did maul a person here, no one believed it, including the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. (We know that there was a "Big Cat" in the area because we had seen it -- when we had a chicken population explosion we also found evidence, usually a chicken or two a week would be found eviscerated by one claw.)

The girl was slightly mentally retarded and very fond of cats, and she had a t-shirt had a picture of a big cat and a wolf touching noses. She was not raised out in the country, but was from Atlanta and had moved out to the area of the Ozarks we lived in to live with relatives. When her body was found her relatives began shooting their dogs, at first thinking that she had to have been killed by the dogs, even though they had no blood or anything on them indicating they had been the ones to literally rip her scalp from her head. There are pictures of the large cat tracks that were found near her body, and a person from the Memphis Zoo identified them as cougar tracks, but all I know is that I had seen an extremely large cat less than a mile away from where she was killed, and it had killed some of our chickens.

http://users.frii.com/mytymyk/lions/attacks3.htm#Cox

As for bears, some people still think if they see a bear that the only way to keep their families safe is to shoot it. There was a local bear that the people had nicknamed "Agnes", who would occasionally break into some of the cabins and houses out down our dirt road. But Agnes would not have been dangerous unless you went near one of her cubs. A friend of ours was asleep in his house, and he'd left the patio door to his bedroom open. He woke up to a bear (who he thinks was Agnes, but if she was breeding it could have been one of her cubs) in his bedroom. He just jumped out of bed and yelled, and the bear turned around and left.

------

But with the natural order of things reversed by the populations of natural predators being decimated, the deer population has increased so much that they are a hazard on the roads, they eat people's gardens, and when they can't find enough food, they starve.

In regards to the road hazard issue, everyone does their best to avoid hitting a deer. But when you drive through very wooded areas like I do a lot, sometimes you just can't avoid it, and if I'm driving through the National Forest I'm not going to be upset at the deer deciding to cross the road. It's more when a deer is hit in the city that people see it as a problem. Knock on wood, but I haven't hit a deer yet while driving. However, when an ex was driving my car in the National Forest on a very twisty road, we did hit one. We felt awful for hitting it -- we hadn't killed the poor thing outright but had injured it so badly that the only humane thing to do was put it out of its misery. It didn't damage our car at all because we were going around the curve and you can only go so fast on some of those roads.

While I do think there are other aspects to controlling the deer population than hunting that would be very helpful, hunting deer is not going to destroy their population.

I do agree that nature photography is also a very good way to do it, and as a matter of fact my brother-in-law has quite a few wonderful shots (pictures) he has taken when he goes out deer hunting. When him and his father used to go off to deer camp with one of their cousins in the fall every year, the three of them would stay out for a week, come back with two deer -- always bucks, they didn't want to kill the does -- and some absolutely beautiful photos. That was nowhere near the Arkansas Game and Fish Commission's "limit", but that was all of the deer that they needed to split between the three men and their families. They always gave us about a pound of ground venison for deer burgers, and they are very good. Now that it's just my brother-in-law and his cousin, they bring back one deer. (My sister's father-in-law passed away two years ago.)

And as I said, my brother-in-law prefers to hunt with a bow and arrow instead of a rifle.

Hunting, if it is done responsibly and not in a wasteful manner, is not unethical in my opinion.

[Blarch]

96. LOL, You can't be serious.

Eating meat doesn't mean you like to shoot animals for fun.

The question was about shooting animals for fun ...not about eating meat.

[AkFemDem]

113. The post I was replying to was about hunting for meat too

He/she said ONLY native Alaskans should be able to hunt for sustanance.

[Colobo]

6. You know, cockfighting is big and important in my "state", Puerto Rico.

I defend its right to exist. However, you gotta be a bit barbaric to enjoy watching to animals cut and peck each other till they die...

[Norrin Radd]

8. In English: "peck."

[Colobo]

9. Thanks!

[Blarch]

98. You defend cockfighting ?

How about dog fighting ?

How sick ...you should be ashamed.

[Cleita]

4. Not only that moose are really dumb and actually gentle.

The problem is that they are really big and can do damage if threatened, so maybe if you are afraid of this huge creature who is charging you then you might want to shoot it. However, my experience with the few moose I was ever able to get close enough to even see is that they are really shy. Locals don't like them because if they don't have enough to eat of the water vegetation that they like, they will go through your garden.

[mitchum]

7. Lingering resentment over never getting Bullwinkle and Rocky's jokes?

[Norrin Radd]

10. kr

[kwolf68]

11. I can explain

People who hunt typically were indoctrinated into it as young children.

I was born in NC, grew up in Va and I hunted with my dad.

The trouble is...the first few animals I killed I was actually hunting alone in the property we owned behind my house. When I killed these animals, there were no manly men around me such as my dad to exhault the great accomplishment. It was just me there...with an animal I had killed.

Needless to say I didn't like the feeling. At the time I had absolutely no concept of life, animals, biology, pain, death...and I really didn't care, but something inside me didn't like the feeling of seeing dead animals that I had killed.

I'd still hunt with my dad, but would miss on purpose. I could hit a dixie cup at 50 yards with an M1 Garand, but couldn't put a bullet into a squirrel. I think my dad figured it out...my hunting career was over by the time I was 14. And his hunting career was soon over as well. He quit hunting as well saying he couldn't 'handle the cold' anymore, but he always told me about this story where he shot a deer on my granddads farm where he severed the spine and the deer was paralyzed from the center back. He told me how quickly he tried to humanely end that animals life. I honestly think despite the decades of hunting he did, that event messed him up.

I guess he wanted to hunt with me because his dad did, but all I really wanted was for him to throw the baseball with me.

[cboy4]

12. Because they're sick in the head.

These are the same kind of people who get off clubbing baby seals.

It's disgusting.

[seabeyond]

15. my son shot a quail and a turkey. he brought it home and fed it to us

i had to force myself to eat it as he was going thru his own personal journey of the experience. as much as i dont understand, i certainly wouldnt call my son sick in the head. he is the kindest, purest of heart. he will always be on the underdogs side. and even though he is small framed, wears glasses adn is an intellectual he will stand up to the bully to speak out for the other kids and get knocked on his ass for them then he will fell the loser. even though he was the one, and only one that had the courage

you post is offensive to say the least

[Colobo]

17. I'm not talking about hunting for food. I'm talking about hunting for fun.

Sorry if it offends you, but I stand by my opinion- killing a living thing for fun is bizarre.

[seabeyond]

21. as i said, you dont get it. i dont either. but i am not so narrow minded as to assume

because i do not get it there is no other way of preceiving it. of course you will stand by your position. i have no doubt

[Colobo]

26. Everything has another way of being perceived. That's actually dangerous

in many cases. Ask a murderer, a dictator, or a child molestor- they all have perspectives and reasons. Don't even think I'm even suggesting your son should be compared with these types of people- God bless him and your whole family. I just disagree with you on this issue, and I hope you understand why.

[seabeyond]

28. i dont take it personally. i also dont think you are consistent in your argument

[cboy4]

20. Oh please, there's a difference between shooting a bird

and gunning down a goddam moose.

So no, I don't think your son is sick in the head for killing a bird for food.

If he upgrades to a moose, however, I'd look into psychiatric care.

Anyone who can take the life of a huge animal like a moose is dangerous, IMO.

[Colobo]

22. I'm with you. I would kill an animal for food, but not for "fun", and less a huge animal.

[seabeyond]

27. why? what makes a huge animal more special than a bird. these arguments

never made sense to me. iti s like those that say rape is murder. but we can murder if the female is raped or incest. if it is murder than it isnt ok ever

if there is a problem killing a deer than there is an equal problem killing a bird or fishing for fish, for that matter.

[Colobo]

30. Personally, killing animals for fun is wrong. Killing animals to eat them is good.

[seabeyond]

23. i had someone give us venison they shot. the meat was good, especially jerkied.

why is it different eating a cow than eating a deer?

and on edit: why is it different killing a bird from a deer? that makes no sense.

i dont kill. that means not only can i not kill the deer or bird i cant kill bugs and spiders and end up breaking windows trying to swat flies. at least i am consistent

[cliffordu]

29. There is a phenomenon about critters referred to as

"Charismatic Megafauna"

Baby seals, kittens, puppies, basically anything too cute to eat...

Some critters have it,

some don't. It is in the eye of the beholder.



An elk, by the way, can provide all the meat a family needs for most of a winter. That is significant in Alaska, even in the big towns.

[seabeyond]

35. Some critters have it, some don't. that made me giggle.

[cliffordu]

49. Yeah, you never see protests for saving the Catfish, for instance.....

[seabeyond]

54. why isnt everyone flipping out about fishing. oh cause they do it.

i cant kill a fish either. i eat them though. at least i can see my contradiction in that and admit it

[Colobo]

55. I personally don't like the idea of recreational fishing either.

I've gone fishing with my father, and hated to see the fish gasping for air for about a minute or so. It gave me a sick feeling. Of course, I like to eat fish. I just think the only reasons to kill another animal is to eat it or for self defense. I don't see how watching an animal die is fun.

[seabeyond]

57. why are you thinking they enjoy watching the animal die. from what i hear

part of the "honor, integrity" in hunting to make it a clean and fast death and if you dont accomplish that it is part of the failure or some such thing.

[Colobo]

65. Even if they didn't enjoy the death of the animal, why kill it if you are not going to eat it?

Look, I went to Spain last year and had the "pleasure" of visiting Ronda, the birthplace of Bullfighting. They are extremely proud of it, and they talk to you about the honor of the bullfighter, the courage of the bull, the respect they have for it, etc.

Still, the bull is raised in total darkness for its first two years. The first time it sees the light is when he's released to fight the bullfighter. They stick "banderillas" on its neck before the fight to kill some of the nerves there and prevent the bull of being able to move his head side to side. The spectacle is one of the bloodiest, most brutal things I've had the bad luck to witness.

Why am I telling you this? Because they "love" these bulls. They have an honor code that goes with the "sport", and all the rhetoric that makes bullfighting look as an honorable tradition. They even eat the bull's meat in the end on some occassions, which in a way would justify the killing, but it doesn't because the main purpose of it is not to actually eat it, but to see a man torture an animal and finally killing it when it has bled so much that it can't run anymore.

There's something wrong with that, I personally think, and there's something wrong in killing an animal just for fun or amusement.

Maybe I'm crazy, I don't know...

[chatnoir]

89. You are far from crazy

Still, the bull is raised in total darkness for its first two years. The first time it sees the light is when he's released to fight the bullfighter. They stick "banderillas" on its neck before the fight to kill some of the nerves there and prevent the bull of being able to move his head side to side.

I've always found it bloodthirsty and barbaric even without knowing these sick details. Now, I'll never unlearn that bit. :(

Bloodlust disguised as 'tradition' and 'culture'.... I think it's profane. :-(

[cliffordu]

69. Exactly right - the compact is that the animal does not suffer needlessly.

When I was growing up I was taught that it was best to use one shot to take an animal.

If you couldn't make a clean kill with one shot, you should not shoot.

I've seen men shoot recklessly and wound an animal and then go have to search for a wounded deer in the fucking brush...that is cruel and stupid and runs the risk of ruining the meat, which is the purpose of hunting, after all.

[cboy4]

39. Listen, the next thing you're going to ask me is what's wrong

with killing an elephant.

My point is there's something wrong with a person's brain if they can actually pull the trigger of a gun and shoot a mooose and other large game.

I don't believe normal people can force themselves to do so, unless they enjoy killing.

It's frightening.

[seabeyond]

45. now you state there is something wrong with their brain. i think i will leave you with that

and not take it any further. we live in a world with an inability to even try to understand the other. or not even that, but allow we may just simply be different. instead something is wrong in their brain

[cboy4]

56. Sorry. When it comes to killing, I accept very few reasons

as justification.

Sorry you take it personal.

[seabeyond]

58. do you kill a fly. do you give the same thought to a bug. does the life have to evolve to a level

before you feel the outrage to killing or taking life.

i dont see how you can say that some killing, no conscience is required whereas other killing, well, something is wrong with the brain

it is not a consistent argument

[cboy4]

66. How is it you cannot see the difference? Are you just mad

that I suggested your son is a lunatic if he keeps up the killing, or do you honestly not comprehend the difference between an insect and a majestic animal?

And note, I'm not suggesting your son is a lunatic........... unless he loves killing.


:puke:

[Colobo]

68. Bugs can bite you and bring infections.

If I'm eating and a fly is trying to step into my food, I'm gonna kill it. I have to- it's not going away if I don't.

That's different from waking up one morning and saying: "Today I want to shoot bears. It'll be fun." Why in the world would I want to go and kill a bear? Is there a NEED to take away its life?

[cboy4]

73. Perfect.

:applause:

[cliffordu]

53. You DO understand that you wouldn't be here, literally, if people before you

Hadn't been willing to kill a moose with long sharp sticks, right??

[Blarch]

99. Did they do it for fun ?

Jeeeesh, The ignorance is getting deep.

[cliffordu]

105. Where was the 'for fun' clause inserted into the conversation??

And someone who writes the drivel you do might not want to refer to others as ignorant.

[Blarch]

106. Ummm.

If you bothered to read the threads you are posting in...you would notice the words FOR FUN in capitals in the OP.

Jeeeesh...WTF is going on ? Am I talking to Ted Nugent ?

[cliffordu]

107. I responded to

# 12, 20, 39 with the comment you tried to shit on,

Still no mention of pure sport hunting there, - If you get off your lazy ass and look through the rest of my comments on the matter, you might see that I don't like sport hunting either.

But you're too busy with the masturbatory self righteous name calling to do that.


Try to keep up.


The Ted Nugent thing was nice. Shallow, but nice.

[pipoman]

115. I take it you are a vegan?

If so fine, I can buy your argument as consistent. If OTOH you eat meat (as 99.9% of the population does) then you should probably just STFU.

[cliffordu]

16. Actually.....

I'd kill a man for clubbing a baby seal or a pet.

I HAVE killed my dinner and although I cannot say it was any fun at all, it was better than being hungry.

I don't currently hunt, cause I don't need to, but if I WAS hungry, I would.


It sure as shit wouldn't be a photo op, though.

[cboy4]

25. Again, I don't have a problem with people killing their dinnner.

Especially if they need to eat.

But to just go out and slaughter large game like moose ... that's where I draw the line.

[cliffordu]

31. Yep - I don't like killing for sport at all.

If you're going to do that, use a sharp stick so your prey can have some fun, too.

[seabeyond]

33. there wasnt a distinction from hunting and what palin promotes, mass slaughter

without conscience. i do wonder about that. and i dont respect that

but in the op or you post there is no clarification

[Blarch]

108. right on, agreed.

[Blarch]

97. I second that.

Anybody that shoots animals for fun is a sick mother fucker.

[verges]

111. Anyone who

advocates for an animal to be removed from the endangered or at-risk lists to accommodate big oil is very sick.

[seabeyond]

13. you are right, you dont understand it. i dont understand it. but my son could

probably explain it to you a lot better. he and his father go hunting. it is a good thing in many respects. it does have its value. i dont value it, but i can appreciate that another does. i guess that is what accepting and embracing diversity is about. understanding we are all not the same but uniquely different and appreciating the differences.

[Colobo]

18. Check post 17.

[MrScorpio]

14. There's responsible hunting and irresponsible hunting

Palin clearly sides with irresponsible... i.e, hunting from copters and over hunting a species.

BTW, I never have and never will hunt.

But, as far as total disdain for even responsible hunting practices, I don't see it.

It's still a fact of life in the wilderness.

People hunt. Always have and hopefully with proper stewardship and supervision, can if they choose.

Palin, should be faulted for being a bad example to her children. She is not a responsible hunter.

[kwolf68]

24. If hunting was proper population control

Hunters would take the sickest, oldest, and weakest. Trouble is...a diseased deer looks like shit on your wall.

Hunters want to most often take the best...thus removing strong alleles from the gene pool.

The lobstermen in Maine have finally figured this out and throw back 'stud lobsters' (the bucks, the trophies if you will), because they want those 'big bad Lobsters' to go get a bunch of female lobsters pregnant so we can have awesome lobsters to eat.

I don't know how the population genetics works with lobsters, but they typically throw back pregnant females as well.

[cliffordu]

Unless there's a need to trim the herd on a large scale, pregnant females are

NEVER taken. It just ain't right.

Under the hunting regs of some places it might be legal, but it just isn't moral.

[kwolf68]

52. No shit.

But females SHOULD BE taken and SHOULD be taken in equitable numbers as males. Hunters, being the 'brilliant Biologists' should know exactly when a Doe will or won't be pregnant and hunting seasons should be modified to allow for a greater 'harvest' of females so that numbers are in direct proportion to males. THAT WOULD eventually solve the population as best as possible short of removing humans and returning natural predation, but it would also mean less bucks on someone's wall and I've never seen a Doe mounted.

And that's the entire agenda of the hunting community and state wildlife 'management' agencies, to increase hunting opportunities.

[Quixote1818]

19. And how the hell is shooting a Moose a fucking challenge???

It's a big lumbering, gentle animal. I don't get hunting for pleasure at all though I do understand hunting to control animal populations since we have killed off all the predators.

[sandnsea]

34. They're actually pretty limber

when running down a hill. They're also one of the most dangerous of the horned animals. Never get near a moose.

[seabeyond]

37. aaaaah, i havent seen you for a while. i love that picture.

it is one of my favorites

[sandnsea]

62. Did you see this pic?

It was in a thread earlier. I can't decide which one I like better. Isn't this just adorable. I just love how Joe just has his pretzel out there without a second thought. I just love this picture.

[seabeyond]

64. ya.... i like them together. loved the picture of him holding the baby....

i am a sucker for lovin

[cliffordu]

42. Moose kill more people every year than bears do.

No shit. When they rut the males are 1200 pounds of 8 foot tall psychosis.

[sandnsea]

32. I've gone out while my husband hunted

Walking outdoors, looking for sign, nothing to do but be quiet and relax, nothing else to worry about. Luckily we've never seen an animal when I've been with him, I really wouldn't want to be there when anything was shot. But I get the enjoyment of the process, and the pride in hitting your target and bringing home a winter of meat. It's no different from someone who raises cattle because he enjoys getting outdoors with them.

[kwolf68]

36. It is different

Hunting IS different than raising livestock. Sorry I dont think it's the same.

[sandnsea]

60. It's not different

What's different about Sarah Palin is she has no respect for animal habitat. She is so fucking stupid that she doesn't understand that the animals she loves to hunt and fish are going to disappear if she doesn't protect the environment. That's the problem with far too many hunters. Once the habitat is gone, and they're over-hunted, then you get into canned hunts and game farms and that's when it gets sick. But when the game is plentiful, going out to get your annual elk is no different than going out and slaughtering a cow.

[seabeyond]

61. when i was young my dad raised chicken for us to eat. i was about 3, ran around the house

about the time he was wringing a chickens neck. horrified me. i wasnt a very good farm girl. just did rub off on me. didnt talk to my father for a long time after that from what i was told.

he didnt "enjoy" watching them die.

[sandnsea]

71. We raised some things

Rabbits for a while, I had to help skin them. Then cleaning fish and cutting up chickens. Raised some calves at one point. I guess I always knew they were going to be meat so I always looked at them that way. I suppose I could shoot something if I had to, just glad I never had to. But I figure if you eat the final meat product, no matter what kind of meat it is, then you really don't have any room to complaint about the process it takes to get that meat.

[seabeyond]

75. that is how i see it. i wont be doing any of that, lol... they tried to make me clean fish

didnt sit well, lol but i can see my own contradiction in that. i am willing to eat it, just not courages enough to kill it to eat it.

[sandnsea]

81. Not even a fish?

I'd rather clean a fish than cut up a chicken. Have you never cut up even a whole grocery store chicken? A fish isn't much different than that.

[seabeyond]

101. nope

there was some meat recently i can think what it was and i was having to do soemthing with it. too much handling and preparing told hubby, not gonna do this again. oh.... it was shrimp. raw shrimp. i was having to pull off shell and tail. generally i buy raw shrimp that is already shelled. i could hardly do it. by the ended i was a mess

[Colobo]

72. My grandma did the same thing with chickens. We ate them right away.

That's the point. Killing animals to eat is good. Killing animals for FUN is bad.

[seabeyond]

77. i agree with you that killing for the pleasure of killing says something. but

i do not believe a lot of hunters feel that way. i dont know and hang out with hunters and cant really give an educated guess on the percentage. that is one of the many reasons i did not mind my husband taking son out and teaching him. one of several reasons that was good for son. my husband is very responsible and respectful of the whole thing

anyway

off to bed

good chattin

[seabeyond]

41. or goes fishing. my hubby, with the water and casting and thought

actually i dont think it is thought, just peace, lol. but he loves fishing. he throws his back. but he loves pitting his skills.

[BlooInBloo]

38. Because they're fucking hunters. Sheesh.

I don't do it, and think it's stupid personally, but then I also think cranium is stupid, and lots of people play that game-for-dumbshits.

But the idea that hunters are by nature like "the Argentine Junta" is just more bourgeois bullshit.

Just call hunters nazis and be done with it. Sheesh.

[cboy4]

46. You're being totally hard on hunters by calling them nazis.

Sick fucks is much more fair.

[BlooInBloo]

51. hahahaha!

:P

[Colobo]

47. Bourgeois? LOL!

[seabeyond]

48. no... something is just wrong in their brain.

not per me, from a poster above. really rolling eyes

[marew]

40. I agree completely.

I find it revolting that she enjoys killing animals, from planes even. That is very unusual for a woman. Something not quite right there. There is something emotionally wrong with that woman. I also do not understand her leaving a baby at home to run around the country with McCain when she has a baby who needs special help. I really get a sense that she is a bit narcissistic. It is all about her and everyone else in her life is a means to a goal, as long as they are useful to her. Playing up the baby in her speeches while leaving him at home, for one thing, bothers me. Strange family values. Yes, I wouldn't say that if she were a man but she's not, she' a mother and being a mother is different, especially when there is a baby in the family. I had to go back to work when my son was 4 months old but I chose a job that would let me come home mid afternoon so I'd pick him up after a nap. She has a son who is going into the army because his grade point was too low to do what he really wanted to do, play sports at some school(my father was Army career so I hold military service in high esteem. I'd just not like it to be chosen because of failures in other areas.) And she has possibly a pregnant and married 16 year old daughter. Has she never sat down with her kids and taught them what they need to do to succeed? Very strange "family values" in addition to her getting her jollies killing wildlife. Something is missing in this picture.

[Life Long Dem]

43. Forget the moose. We're not voting for the moose.

I wonder if McSame chose her because he's a dirty old man?

[marew]

50. It isn't the moose, though I care about the moose.

It is about a woman who enjoys a bloodsport, who has very little compassion, even killing wildlife from planes. That is very, very unusual for a woman.

[kwolf68]

59. And it will be downplayed

These soccer moms she is pandering to would not be overly impressed with her hunting prowess, such that it takes any prowess to shoot and unarmed unsuspecting victim.

Any mention of guns and hunting will be done under the 'fair chase' viewpoint and will be used to show Palin as a 'tough women'...as if shooting a fucking moose qualifies one for the office of VP.

[Life Long Dem]

83. Are you familar with the area she is from?

She wears fishing lure earrings. The lifestyle you bash, she lives.

[Skittles]

44. why would anyone shoot ANYTHING for fun

they'll never admit they enjoy killing though - it's always NOBLE what they do because they just will not admit it

[rabbits4love]

63. "It's comin' right at us!"

im with you, unless something is endangering you or someones elses life... i dont see the point either.

ive met countless 'wild' animals capable of learning and understanding.

deers love to be rubbed and to get a nice pet now and again if youre ever around one that used to people...

i have several pet rabbits, which people hunt, that are house broken... can learn tricks... follow me around like a dog..and even come lay on me or around me whenever im laying down.

how someone can kill anything capable of thought, understanding, and the ability to learn when its done nothing to you and is no threat to you is beyond me...

i only wish the meat that was gotten at the supermarket was gauranteed to be humanely done... after seeing videos of what some of the chicken handlers do to the poor things before they are taken to be put down drove me away from any fast food chicken place.
its one thing to quickly and painlessly take somethings life for the sake of food ... and another to let something slowly take its life away for absolutely no purpose.

i was once watching the outdoors channel and watching this husband, wife, and child out hunting... they were hunting deer...
a doe came up over a ridge and the husband instructed the child to pull the trigger...
'i cant daddy' he said.
next thing you know, ole dads got his hand on his sons hand and pullin the trigger for him.

im sorry, stuff like that is sickening. why anybody would make their family member shoot and kill something when they verbally say they dont want to is beyond me.

[moriah]

90. As an Arkie with a family who loves hunting...

Here are my opinions on the subject.

1) If you are going to hunt, learn the skill first with your chosen weapon to ensure that it is a CLEAN kill. Aka, no shooting Bambi in the leg or gut and then chasing after your kill leaving it to bleed to death instead of aiming for a place that kills it instantaneously or as close to it as you can.

2) If you are going to hunt, use all of the animal you can. No "field-dressing" of meat -- you don't just cut a small steak out of Bambi and then leave the rest to rot. Preserve all the meat you can, tan the hide (I know a lot of people who barter with hunters for hides because they make drums with them), antlers make better handles for knives or material for people to make jewelery with than they do trophies up on your wall.

3) If your kid doesn't want to hunt, don't make them. The first time a child hunts and kills an animal is hard enough even if they want to. If they don't want to make the shot, even if the deer is right at a perfect place and even if they said they wanted to hunt, don't force it. I agree with what you said about that guy on the outdoors channel.

4) Even if you plan to eat all of the meat and use all of the hides, don't kill more than you actually need to. One deer can fill up a freezer, two can fill up a deep freeze, any more than that and the meat is more likely to go bad or get freezer-burned before it is eaten. Respect the Game and Fish Commission's rules about limits and doe/buck seasonal issues -- they are there for a reason. Don't be indiscriminate.

I personally think a "clean kill" of an animal where the animal's gifts are not wasted is ethical.

I've known people who have had pet turkeys. Yes, they can be quite intelligent birds. Am I going to say that it's wrong to eat a turkey on Thanksgiving? If the turkey was treated well during its life, was killed humanely, and was not wasted, then no, I don't think it's wrong. Cows, even though we have domesticated a great deal of their personality and intelligence out of them, can still be friendly - I've had cows and calves. I've also had goats -- although the goats were not being raised for food but rather for milk. And I've also had chickens -- which may seem to be dumb animals, but it's pretty amazing how quickly a flock of chickens learn that when I came out of the house first thing in the morning to head over to the outhouse, if they got in my path I would instead go get their corn first. They are all common food stock.

If a person eats meat, they at some point learn that the meat that is on their plate is there because an animal died for them. Even though I do not eat much meat, I cannot say that another living thing dying so I can live is an absolute evil. What I can say is that it is necessary to have respect and thankfulness for the fact that a living thing was killed for you. That respect is shown by preventing the animal from undergoing unnecessary suffering in their dying, and by not wasting their sacrifice.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

67. To get elected Miss Mooseburger, of course

If people eat the animals they kill, I have no issue with it. That's the way indigenous people have lived for centuries. Shooting trophies is disgusting if you're living outside the 1890s.

[AkFemDem]

70. I enjoy hunting and fishing

the "for fun" part is hard to say, because it implies sport is the only benefit. In reality Alaskans eat more wild game than any other state. We eat it because it's healthier than what is on store shelves. No antibiotics or growth hormones, just good free range meat and fish. We eat it because it tastes better than beef. We eat it because it is cheaper. Most people who hunt or fish do enjoy it though, also for the opportunity to be in the outdoors, to challenge your body in difficult terrain, and for the thrill of the chase.

[sandnsea]

82. It's not a complicated concept

I don't particularly like hunting or fishing, but I certainly understand it. Having lived in Montana, I also understand the cheapness and quality of the game over the grocery store too. I guess people think there's some kind of glee in seeing something die, which isn't the point at all. Oh well I guess.

[gulliver]

76. What if it was for politics?

Suppose she didn't even enjoy it, but she did it cynically to get a few votes. Does she really enjoy hunting or did she just kill an animal as a way of begging people to like her?

[AtomicKitten]

86. I have never understood that demographic.

In fact, I am horrified by it all.

[cali]

87. Before I moved to northern vermont, many years ago

I had the same sentiments. I no longer do. I know too many people who hunt. And the vast majority of them aren't scary at all. Furthermore, most of them are very concerned with wildlife habitat and the environment. That said, my problem with moose hunting is that shooting a moose is like shooting a barn wall. They don't fear humans the way deer do.

[AtomicKitten]

88. I have always felt man is encroaching on the habitat of too many creatures

and hunting them down seems so horrible, to me. I can see a different perspective (as you have shared) on this, but my sensitivity to animal issues is excruciating sometimes.

Wedge issues are always so difficult to negotiate. I loved Obama's preemptive strike in his acceptance speech:

America, our work will not be easy. The challenges we face require tough choices. And Democrats, as well as Republicans, will need to cast off the worn-out ideas and politics of the past, for part of what has been lost these past eight years can't just be measured by lost wages or bigger trade deficits. What has also been lost is our sense of common purpose, and that's what we have to restore.

We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country.

(APPLAUSE)

The -- the reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than they are for those plagued by gang violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals.

(APPLAUSE)

I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in a hospital and to live lives free of discrimination.

(APPLAUSE)

You know, passions may fly on immigration, but I don't know anyone who benefits when a mother is separated from her infant child or an employer undercuts American wages by hiring illegal workers.

But this, too, is part of America's promise, the promise of a democracy where we can find the strength and grace to bridge divides and unite in common effort.

[cali]

91. not where I live. It's very sparsely populated. Not much change

over the last century as far as population growth goes, so up here, it's definitely not about people encroaching on wildlife habitat. And Obama was right about the different realities in different places. I would never ever want to shoot an animal. On the other hand, I have 23 chickens that will be going to be slaughtered in a couple of weeks. They've had a truly good 4 months of life- free range, lots of leftover scones and other goodies. I feel better about eating them than I do eating chicken from a supermarket.

[AtomicKitten]

110. I'm about 95% vegetarian now, going for the title.

This matters to me:

They've had a truly good 4 months of life- free range, lots of leftover scones and other goodies.

I am appalled by factory farming. I accidentally clicked on a link once that played for just a nanosecond (until I could click the red X) a horrific scene. It changed my life.

We have a lot of work to do rehabilitating America.

[Discerning]

94. I know, it's sick

People who don't care about animals often don't care about people.

[cali]

95. What's sick? All hunting? Hunting simply for the thrill of killing

is repellant to me, but hunting and the culture around hunting, is complex. So what's sick? Am I sick because I raise chickens for food? Do you eat meat?

[Nine]

100. You're entitled to your opinion, but this issue is not a winner, politically.

I've never hunted but I have no problem with it. Lots of people enjoy hunting, and would not appreciate criticisms of Palin on this point. Why do you think presidential candidates always have to do photo op hunts when they're running? More people are for it than against it, apparently.

[grandpappy]

103. NRA

That's the only reason she's doing the photo shoot. I guess she's trying to get as good as Dick Chaney. Palin has gained the support of the good ole redneck boys with those pictures.

I have no problem with people being opposed to hunting, that is your right. But many of the anti-hunting people put human values and emotions towards animals.

If your born in the environment where hunting is accepted your odds of hunting are greater than being a non-hunter. I hunt and fish.

Do I belong to the NRA, HELL NO! Do I believe in their philosophy, HELL NO. But I do live in Pennsylvania. Will Palin change my vote to her just because she hunts, HHHHHHEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO!

But she will bring back those ultra right wing gun nuts that wouldn't vote for "O" under any circumstances.

[krabigirl]

104. I have no idea, but if someone needs the meat to survive, I can understand.

But killing for sport and trophies only? That makes me sick.

[jody]

109. I agree and anyone who would eat meat raised and slaughtered under

conditions reported in “Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness” is in the same category.

See Cruelty to Animals: Mechanized Madness

[chitty]

116. I don't understand hunting as a whole.

I do know there are times when animals can overpopulate an area and die of starvation, like deer in some states, and hunting them maybe justified, but to just go on a trip and kill a moose.

I don't get it.

Oh well, moose lovers watch this video.............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNy9jTeolUk

[pipoman]

117. It is usually urbanites

who object to hunting, proclaiming the high ground of forever destroying habitat to build their subdivisions and their McDonalds. Most states sell hunting licenses which are determined by game populations. Populations are controlled through hunting. Safe populations = healthy wildlife populations. The license fees are used to protect habitat, develop new habitat areas, re-introduce native species, develop recreational areas, etc. etc. An example here in my state, wild turkeys long gone from this state were re-introduced on public grounds here around 20 years ago using funds entirely from hunting license sales. Now there are literally thousands of birds over the entire state. With the increased turkey populations came dramatically increased numbers of bobcats near extinct here 20 years ago. The coyote mange problem which was accelerated by malnutrition and over population 20 years ago is nearly gone. If you have never seen a coyote with mange so bad it has no hair, trying to survive sub freezing weather you are lucky. It is haunting and heart wrenching. Waterfowl are another example of hunters contributing to repair massive habitat loss and rebuilding of populations. If it were not for hunting license fees sandhill cranes, wood ducks, canvas backs, and many other species would likely be extinct. Last year I spent over $100 on hunting licenses, nearly all went to wildlife management, I bought my federal duck stamp and didn't duck hunt one day all goes to waterfowl restoration projects...how much did you contribute to wildlife management? If you are like most anti-hunting, meat eating hypocrites you contributed nothing except your hamburger wrapper out the car window. And I'll ask you the same question I asked another proud Floridian in this post, how many gators have been killed to provide your living space? After all Tampa's natural state is swampland, eh?

[Straight Shooter]

118. This picture? Yahoo noted it was a caribou. Another DU'er said it was lactating.

I think we can all draw our own conclusions based on our personal perspectives about killing an animal at this stage of its life.