Recommend this post if you're smart enough to understand this statement by Obama:

[Richardo]

I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people’s families are off limits, and people’s children are especially off limits. This shouldn’t be part of our politics, it has no relevance to governor Palin’s performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18. And how family deals with issues and teenage children that shouldn’t be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that is off limits.

The rest of you, continue with your various missions to undermine our candidate.

[Punkingal]

1. I get it.

EOM

[L. Coyote]

113. DITTO: "It’s The Corruption, Stupid" = Abramoff, McCain, Palin & the GOP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6870492

If you agree, don't let these threads sink!!
I cannot believe what is inking around here today.
Don't let the trolls win this one!!

[Why Syzygy]

2. Nice. But ..

are his supporters the ones reporting the stories? I think not. M$M is in the brew.

rec anyway

[Crooked Moon]

9. that's funny.

just yesterday there were those bragging about how they were responsible for the MSM picking it up.

so, is it the MSM driving the conversation here or vice-versa? seems to be a answer based on temporal convenience.

[Why Syzygy]

39. Maybe he was just saying,

don't judge it.

I wasn't driving anything. I've been checked out of the news cycle and into the real world of SIMS 2 for two days. If no one was talking about it, I would never know. Public figures and their families are my business, tyvm. Of, by and for and all that. I'd like to know who's sitting at their dining table.

No judgments.

[bjobotts]

88. It's McCain making a deal of it so Obama saying don't be like "them"

[bjobotts]

90. Sory, but it'slike saying"don't look at his scar" when the scar is right across his face

[bjobotts]

92. Not a judgment but how you gonna' not notice...the scar..when McCain mentions it

[pampango]

190. It would be odd to claim that the MSM is digging up dirt and airing it against repub candidates. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

3. I understand it perfectly well. He was saying,

I do not want this linked to my campaign.

That's all.

[tekisui]

5. IOW, I can't control what other people say or do with it.

I can control my campaign.

[Richardo]

6. It seems he is addressing "anyone who supports me"

if you go by his actual quote.

[cherokeeprogressive]

70. That's what I thought as well. I guess I'm not so schmart as to be able to parse as well as others

on DU.

[rebel with a cause]

89. My opinion is that the whole

That baby is not hers, it is her daughters threads unneccessary and uncalled for. There are so many relavant things we should have been discussing rather than stories like that. Personally, I don't think that was something we should even care about. If is was about her lying about an affair or something that she had done and it had already been disclosed by the MSM, then that would have been different. And the fact that this type of behavior could be then tied to Obama and blamed on him is downright wrong and on our heads. People were warning yesterday that this would happen but no one listened. :blush: for all of us.

[dchill]

12. Right - He HAS to say that.

We don't. I would like to get to the bottom of any negative story on Palin or McCain. It's called vetting. Somebody has to do it.

[mokawanis]

23. Exactly

Obama could not take any other position on the issue....but I can and will.

[dchill]

46. Well, there you go.

;)

[George II]

77. Right. After all, on another issue both bush and McCain claim to be worried about New Orleans, but..

...do they really give a shit about New Orleans or do they just "have" to show some concern?

[MUAD_DIB]

220. Edzackery. Go for the throat. No merrcy. No regrets.

We all know with certainty how the GOP plays the game.

Let's beat them at their own game and shove their play book down their fucking throats.

[mitchum]

50. I understand it in the same way

he is a very smart man

[blondeatlast]

83. Indeed. nt

[torbird]

120. He's not stupid

"I do not want this linked to my campaign"

Exactly. Obama doesn't want to engage with this sort of politics. But it's part of the game, like it or not. HE can't be associated with it. But his surrogates (ie, you and me) have to carry Palin's scandals to the MSM, explain why they're important, and keep the uproar going until a reporter gets off his brains and does his job.

This ain't church; it's politics. "Family values" conservatives are fair game, too.

[RaleighNCDUer]

207. From a different POV:

do you really want McCain to replace Palin with somebody who is actually qualified? There's still time for them to put in somebody the republicans can get behind.

[AlbertCat]

210. somebody who is actually qualified?

Who the fuck in the GOP would that be???? :eyes:

[RaleighNCDUer]

219. LOL. Good point. nt

[1corona4u]

217. Bingo.

[JohnnyLib2]

4. Well said!

Rec.

[smoogatz]

7. The subtext: damn, is this fun or what?

I'll bet the fundies are crapping their drawers!

[truthisfreedom]

8. "undermine our candidate"??? Ridiculous.

Obama has to take the high road.

We can dig as much dirt as is necessary. It doesn't reflect on him one iota. On the contrary... it gives him things to reject when the heat is on.

[Richardo]

30. Of course you can dig as much dirt as you're happy to wallow in...

...I get from Obama's quote that he would prefer his supporters not engage in discussions of family matters. So, if you DO, are you really a supporter?

[Moochy]

34. Richardo's Litmus Test

FAIL

[SemperEadem]

239. If you don't want to do it, then don't do it

however, there is still a first amendment in the constitution and neither you nor Obama are in the position to strip it from the rest of us because of what you don't want to do. Mind your own store--we'll mind ours.

Obama has to take this position--and you choose to take this position. Bully for the both of you. He should steer clear of it. However, the fact is Obama needs my vote in November; and that doesn't come at the cost of me giving up my right to choose to get at the truth behind this woman and her abysmal decision making processes who stands to be a heartbeat away from being the president of this country. I don't want 4 more years of BS from a candidate reeking of corruption and anything that will slam the breaks on that is fair game.

She chose to take a position that is hostile to choice and helping young, poor women... and the consequences of her taking that position has come back on her in a way that only karma can--and it's public for her. But she's the "monkey who climbed the pole"--things are being thrown at her--and those things come from the choices she's made up til now.

As my sig line says:

[wandathewitch]

231. I'm digging....

I'm digging into my mind, wondering why McCain selected her ? There has to be a reason...I wonder. Was he pressured by something ? I haven't heard anyone speak of that, but then, maybe it is foolish o me to think that he could have something going on that he didn't even want his party to know ? Go ahead...have fun with it,but we could mis the boat while doing so. Mrs. Moose

[vaberella]

10. I don't understand the language that is tabloid fodder.

So I'm good.

K*R
:kick:

[PATRICK]

11. Types of posts to avoid

You can ask yourself the simple question:

Is such and such a post that could be just as easily written by a troll to provoke distraction, dissension, division and DU discreditation? If it is the trolls will gather- or simply not need to.

Gossip stories need no help from DU but all too often MSM style sensationalism and leads rule the post counts. Palin has several substantial, harrowing scandals going on that don't need this kind of distraction at all. If it gloms on to her going down, let it be the GOP affair, even as a pretext for getting rid of her. Simply no need for DU to get involved in the first place.

Anyone learn anything from the primary postings between Hillary and Obama supporters? Anyone got any of their priorities on tight?

[FogerRox]

161. I thought the Obama tax break for 95% of working families would get way more play, but the Palin thi

thing took over.

I know there are those who dismiss such beliefs as happy talk. They claim that our insistence on something larger, something firmer and more honest in our public life is just a Trojan Horse for higher taxes and the abandonment of traditional values. And that's to be expected. Because if you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare the voters. If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from.

You make a big election about small things.

And you know what - it's worked before. Because it feeds into the cynicism we all have about government. When Washington doesn't work, all its promises seem empty. If your hopes have been dashed again and again, then it's best to stop hoping, and settle for what you already know.

Link to Baracks acceptance speech @ the DNC.

America, our work will not be easy. The challenges we face require tough choices, and Democrats as well as Republicans will need to cast off the worn-out ideas and politics of the past. For part of what has been lost these past eight years can't just be measured by lost wages or bigger trade deficits. What has also been lost is our sense of common purpose - our sense of higher purpose. And that's what we have to restore.

We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country. The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang-violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals. I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in the hospital and to live lives free of discrimination. Passions fly on immigration, but I don't know anyone who benefits when a mother is separated from her infant child or an employer undercuts American wages by hiring illegal workers. This too is part of America's promise - the promise of a democracy where we can find the strength and grace to bridge divides and unite in common effort.


Link to Baracks acceptance speech @ the DNC.

[liberalmuse]

13. He's got class.

The sad thing is, the righties won't show him the same respect. They make up lies and the most disgusting smears towards him and his family. Liberals just want to get to the truth, and I believe that was the aim here, not to slander and hurt. I was not for the babygate thing, but respected the rights of others to look into it. That's what is so sad. The right wing are such liars that they are lying (and they know they are lying) when they try to pin this on Obama. He takes the high road and still gets smeared, and they waddle in shit and get away with it.

Obama sure lives in a better, less cynical world than I do. That's why I want him to be President so badly.

On edit: I still believe this whole mess reflects poorly on McCain's decision making skills, or lack thereof. The man is not fit to be President and should not be allowed anywhere near the oval office.

[MUAD_DIB]

221. You get it.

We are at war with the right: the GOP.

They cheat, lie and steal. We all know this.


What has happened with babygate is that an entirely different story has been uncovered, and that story might have been kept secret until after the convention.


I'm glad that there are those that will light the field on fire to make the snakes come out of hiding.

[MarianJack]

14. Absitively!

I don't pick on KIDS!

As a father, that is just taboo!

[BearSquirrel2]

103. Nobodys picking on kids ...

Sarah Palin is NOT a kid. This is picking on how a women handles her kids. And if the suspicion is true, it tells me she's a sick twisted bitch. If it isn't true, it also tells me she's a sick twisted bitch for embarking on a 10 hour trip after labor began.

[MarianJack]

214. Some people here ARE boing after Bristol personally.

She is not the candidate, her mother is.

For McSame & Sarah Palin(comparison), I say nail their asses to the wall for all of the legit issues that they are HANDING us on a silver platter. Otherwise, leave the kid, meaning Bristol, alone. Just like our candidate requested.

[JuniperLea]

256. I've not seen one post that ragged on Bristol in any way whatsoever...

All I've seen have been ragging on her mother, who is fair game.

Can you point me to ONE post wherein Bristol has been bashed?

[loyalsister]

230. As a pro-choice non parent it's taboo

This is not simply going after Palin.

The decision was that of the kid and what to do in an instance of desperation.

If this is true, her parents were involved in a way that I would probably say is weird. But, I dare not judge. A teen pregnancy took place in my family and was not handled perfectly either. The disaster in relationships that followed has tortured the lives of our family.

We were not present to learn how sex ed was adressed in their family. This young woman is dealing with a situation that is as unpleasant as one can be for a young person. To deride it publicly simply out of hate for the GOP is cruel.

[tbyg52]

15. I'm criticizing the adults, not the poor kid.

And I'm mostly criticizing McCain, who obviously thinks the choice of a VP requires less thought and diligence than choosing what tie to wear.

[Motown_Johnny]

16. I agree, but abstinence only programs are a political issue and need to be shown to not work

[jonnyblitz]

25. is her teenage daughter the one promoting abstinence only? nt

[Why Syzygy]

33. Is her teenage daughter the result of promoting abstinence only?

Since the CHILDREN are the "test subjects", a discussion of the results have to include them.

[jonnyblitz]

43. ok, i see what you mean, I didn't at first. nt

[Douglas Carpenter]

17. ABSOLUTELY!!! There are PLENTY of REAL concerns about Sarah Palin!!

[DefenseLawyer]

18. I know whenever I hear Barack Obama speak

I know that he is actually speaking directly to me. We have a bond that the rest of you just don't understand.

[dchill]

20. OK, OK.

:rofl:

[rebel with a cause]

94. I don't know what bond you are speaking of?

But from my experiences of volunteering for his campaign in 2004, I know this type of thing is frowned upon. Obama's rule is no drama and he does not like being pulled into one. You can bet he is not pleased with this being done, and he would prefer that we discuss the real issues of palin. Her stand on women's issues, her being in favor of killing animals from airplanes and helicopters, her stance on the environment and that global warming is not man's doing, and that she wants Intelligent Design taught in our schools are all things that can be discussed and what this would mean to our future. How if she was VP and something happened to mccain, we would have her for president and she would take us back to the 1940s. Discuss why we do not want to give her the chance to be in the position to take us there and to other regions of backwardness that seems to be in her agenda. Some of us could discuss what it was like living in the 40s/50s/early 60s and why we do not want this generation and those following to have to endure what we did. God, even how the Global Warming thing could destroy all of us if she is elected. These are all more important that the gossip flounder that was being discussed here yesterday.

[DefenseLawyer]

101. They don't care what we talk about.

Really. I know it's tough to accept, but they don't.

[rebel with a cause]

107. The thing is that as long as it doesn't hurt Obama

I could care less what some of these people talk about. Some of them I recognize from my ignore list, and that ignore list was filled with anti-Obama people. Shocker right?

[wandathewitch]

235. You said if tor me......

I do wonder why McCain selected her, but better minds than mine will find out if it is needed. My mind is on what you are stating. We are old enough to know what can happen if we waste our efforts on Palin's hypocrasy....sometimes little is more. Mrs Moose

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. ABSOLUTELY!!! There are PLENTY of REAL concerns about Sarah Palin!!

[AZBlue]

21. Exactly! She's given us plenty to use against her, we don't need to waste time with this.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

22. Don't worry, tomorrow Rush will be all over the Palin thing. No? Don't think so? I wonder why. n/t

[terrya]

24. You'd have to be pretty dense not to grasp that. Recommended.

And I am DELIGHTED that our nominee has said hands off on this stuff.

Christ, that woman is a right wing troglodyte of the worst kind. We can attack her on those issues alone.

If she survives all this.

[IndianaGreen]

26. I am RED. I want to see Republican blood on my dagger.

Obama has said what he needs to say. The rest of us must continue to do what must be done to obliterate the McCain/Palin abomination.

[Richardo]

41. Godspeed, Conan

Don't forget your battle-ax.

[EstimatedProphet]

125. Do not drink with thine enemy.

Revenge is a dish that is best served cold.

Only fools fight in a burning house.

Your mother has a smooth forehead.

[NRaleighLiberal]

27. It is possible to raise the hypocrisy and incompetence without being specific.

One thing about Republicans these days - there is no shortage of material to work with. S

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Richardo]

31. Happy to be of service!

...and no, my being an asshole is completely separated from the campaign. :patriot:

[Moochy]

35. Obama gave him a waiver

You know, in that dream where the OP accepts the job as Public Relations Manager for Obama at DU.

[Richardo]

44. Read the quote again

If you can. Note the part where he addresses his supporters - not the press, not the campaign.

Obama does perfectly well calling you on your shit without my help.

[Moochy]

45. You are such a hero!

Where's my medals so i can pin one on you!

[Willo]

29. I support him and agree it is off limits.

This is an example of why people who had been badly hurt physically (shot, beat up, tortured), are not easily qualified to carry a weapon. The tendency for revenge against anyone (no matter who or how many get hurt) is all to real.

Too many posts and threads contain similar thinking

'they do it now we finally get our shot'
'this won't hurt anyone else BUT her'
'so what, who cares, they shouldn't have been in the way'

[liberalpress]

49. What is kind of funny,,,

... is that I remember 2004 when we got all red in the face and angry as hell when unsubstantiated attacks were levied at John Kerry. We talked about how horrible it was that people could spread lies, and those people must have no ethics at all.

Interesting how times change.

Ethics ain't what it used to be

[Willo]

56. Hopefully some will step back and view the whole forest.

Then they can get on those other stories that have more weight.

[liberalpress]

67. I sure hope so, but ...

[Willo]

69. yeah, I know...

[adamuu]

32. Note that this doesn't apply to Andrew Sullivan

He's not an Obama supporter... he's not an anyone supporter.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/

This is way, way out of our control. Okay? So just get yourself some popcorn.

[JenniferJuniper]

156. Actually, Andrew Sullivan has been an Obama supporter

for some time now.

[LeftishBrit]

179. He's been a Thatcher supporter too,

I'm glad he's supporting Obama, but I wouldn't support *him*.

[ProSense]

36. Are you smart enough to understand this:

this:

I plan to honor that request. It's easy, in the midst of a political campaign, to forget that the people involved are, after all, people. Some of them -- Sarah Palin, for instance -- place themselves under a media spotlight of their own free will. Others -- her daughter, for instance -- wind up there through no fault of their own. Imagine yourself in her position: there you are, seventeen years old, pregnant, unmarried. Maybe you understand what happened and why; and maybe your parents and friends do as well. But zillions of bloggers and reporters and pundits are about to make the most personal details of your life into a political issue, and they don't understand it at all. And yet, despite that, they are about to use you and your unborn child to score points on one another, without any regard whatsoever for you and your actual situation.

I want no part of this. None at all. To those of you who think otherwise: that's your right. But ask yourself how you felt when Republicans scored points using Chelsea Clinton, who didn't ask to be dragged into the spotlight either.

As far as I'm concerned, it's fair game to consider Sarah Palin's statements about her daughter's decision, and to compare them to her own views about abortion. That's a story about whether or not Sarah Palin sticks to her beliefs when they affect her own family, not about her daughter. But it is not fair game to use her daughter, or any of her kids, as pawns in a political argument. To my mind, this extends to using her daughter as evidence that abstinence-only education doesn't work: presumably, no one thinks that it works 100% of the time, and that's the only claim to which this one counterexample could possibly be relevant. (That's why God created large-scale studies.) Likewise, I think that arguing about whether Sarah Palin is a good mother is out of line: we have no idea at all what arrangements she and her husband have made for child care, how their relationship works, and so forth. Assuming that Sarah Palin would have to be her children's primary caregiver is just sexist.

If the past is any guide, some people will respond to this post by saying that the Republicans would not hesitate to use Democrats' teenage children to score political points. That may be. Three responses: first, so what? Just because they do it doesn't mean that we should. Second, any argument for going there would have to assume that this would, in fact, be a political winner, and thus that not using it would entail some sort of political sacrifice. I am not at all convinced that that is true. Most importantly, though, there are some lines I'm not willing to cross no matter what the other side does.

The GOP's hypocrisy on teen pregnancy, abstinence and sex education.

[JDPriestly]

163. Obama can say what he wants. Americans vote the story, not the issues or the character.

Republicans presented Palin's story as Mr. Smith goes to Washington. Now we find out that Mr. Smith/Ms. Palin's real story is overburdened mother of five hopes to go to Washington. Looks like before she tries to bring change to D.C., Palin needs to bring change to her family.

As I recall, the questions about the identify of the real mother of the Palins' youngest child arose from curiosity about how Sarah Palin plans to raise her special needs child and still serve as VP. That's a big load. The questions also arose from thoughts about whether McCain goofed (again) when he chose her as his vice presidential running mate.

And don't say the VP doesn't really have to do anything. She gets paid to do a job. Gore did a great job. Cheney has run the show for the past 7 1/2 years. The days of do-nothing VPS are over.

My best guess before all these scandals broke was that Palin planned to hire someone to take care of her special needs child during the day and rely on her husband and oldest daughter to substitute for her as mom. But now we learn that Palin's daughter will have her own child to take care of. So, does that mean the task of raising the youngest goes to the third oldest child? Do Palin's kids just raise themselves? (That would explain a lot.) Is her husband happy as stay-at-home-dad? Nothing wrong with that if it is his choice, but as a fundamentalist fishermen, is that really what he wants?

These concerns along with the story about Palin's water breaking and then her 8-hour flight to Alaska following the breaking of her water plus the fact that her youngest is not listed among the births publicly reported by the hospital in which Palin claims he was born . . . . Of course, people are asking questions. Questions about "truthiness." Questions about judgment.

Fundamentalists like Palin preach to the rest of the nation about how we should plan and raise our families and what career choices we should make. They depict liberals as giving their children far too much freedom. Remember the conservative who criticized the movie based on Sex and the City?

But, guess whose kid is pregnant? My liberally parented daughters did not make this mistake. They had detailed sex education at church in high school. They were prepared to make wise choices in their lives in this area and they did. Obviously, whatever information Palin's daughter was given, whatever she was taught, she decided to have a baby at 17.

All due respect to Obama, but although 19 is young to be a mother nowadays (it wasn't viewed as that young in 1960), there is a huge difference between bearing a child at 19 after you have at least finished high school and doing it at 17-18, before finishing high school. (I'm assuming that Palin's daughter has not yet received her diploma.)

Obama, as a voter, I want to know whether Palin is qualified to be the VP. Is she honest? Does she have good judgment? Will she be able to devote the time to her job that the job demands? Will she be distracted by all her personal problems?

There's a reason why we call it the First Family. The president's family becomes, in some small way, a part of our own. The president's family's business is our business.

[bowens43]

37. Your condesending tone negates anything you may have had to say

I suggest you stop being an ass. No one here other then the occasional freeper is undermining our candidate.

[Richardo]

47. Perhaps I should have said 'care enough' instead of 'smart enough'

But most of the baby-posters are in fact idiots.

[Damian the LHP]

167. Yeah, whatever you say.

By all means, continue doing the Freepers' job. They just love you for it.

Enjoy McCain's America.

[treestar]

38. Quit talking about this woman, Obama and everyone!

Talk about Joe Biden!

(I'm from Delaware, but the point is still valid!)

[high density]

40. Obama can feel however he wants

And you're free to act in any pompous and condescending manner as you did above. But the fact is that while these things "shouldn't be" a part of our politics, it is a part of our politics. And why is that? It's because of the GOP and its candidates like Sarah Palin that feel their values are above all others.

[Richardo]

42. That's the 14-year-old mentality I've come to expect

Thanks for not disappointing

[high density]

54. That's a great argument you've got going there.

[apocalypsehow]

57. Yes, and that argument has the added benefit of being both spot-on and true. n/t.

[high density]

58. Another blistering response

Man, you guys are really doing a great job at making me rethink my position. Does anybody want to respond to my comment, or would you rather just level personal attacks on me?

[Balderdash]

61. You won't even listen to what your candidate wants

why would you listen to anyone else. I'm starting to think that some of you
Obama "supporters" are anything but.

[apocalypsehow]

66. Sums up my thoughts, exactly.

:thumbsup:

[HousePainter]

76. Hey get in line !!

You're not thinking on your own again are you ?

Remember, this election is about him not us ......
or did he say that the other way around ?

I, for one, completely agree with you.

[AlbertCat]

212. I thought we were leaving teenagers out of it!

[sui generis]

240. I just love how WE're the ones who enforce the double standard

in their favor.

Don't talk about the kids. Talk about the incrongruency. This is like being a no-tolerance drug czar and having your family fucked up on coke and acid.

Quite frankly I think it's 14 year old mentality to ignore reality. Nobody is saying the daughter is a bad person. Obama IS WRONG on this if you take it at face value. Fortunately I believe he posturing for politics, which is politically adroit.

Facts are, nobody CAN make hay out of this, except for the people here who just love to argue about nothing and take recommendations that their position is unassailable.

Consider it assailed.

Having delivered my august opinion on this topic :P, I would like to add that either way it IS a non-issue. We need to be concerned with issues like jobs, healthcare, foreign policy, and mock the other side for their inability to step away from their useless focus on the four Gees (god, guns, gays and gas).

[rebel with a cause]

104. It is a part of our politics only if WE make it a part of it.

To me it is unimportant whether or not her fifth child is hers or not. Let the tabloid newspapers run with that, and trust me they will because we have people like Larry Flint who hate the right wing and will dig up any dirt they can. As for me, I would rather go after her on issues and her lack of experience. Trust me when I say the republicans can say what they want but Obama's education and experience stands head and shoulders against hers, and he is prepared to be president while she is not. But then compare her and Joe Biden's experience and then compare Barack and mccain's judgment in who they chose for VP. There are many things that we can discuss about mccain and palin without wallowing in the gutter with the GOPs.

[Jester Messiah]

182. Okay, let me take a swing at this.

Engaging in nasty decency-free politics, just because the other side does, legitimizes the tactic. Refusing to do so, citing simple common decency, highlights the fact that the opponent is being vile. This gives observers (voters, if you will) a choice between rooting for a hate-spewer, or rooting for someone who has some decency and some standards.

Besides that, what's the point in being a Democrat if you're just going to act like a Republican?

[wandathewitch]

238. OK...Now I can get back to my sewing...

I feel that I'm no longer alone here, and trying to get the kids to stop their antics on the playground. I hate to be like this, but it is so important for me to see DU people having more caring ( for not knowing what to use for a word)..I see from this post that I'm not alone in thinking the way I do, so I can get back to work. Mrs. Moose

[Zomby Woof]

48. All I care about...

...are her dangerously far-right positions, her petty vindictive pattern in governance (the firings, etc.), and her woefully thin resume.

[Yukari Yakumo]

51. Agreed...

Especially since there is so much better material to hammer her with.

[demgrrrll]

52. Total agreement here. This story is absolute Kryptonite.

[apocalypsehow]

53. K & R. n/t.

[TheKentuckian]

60. I'm glad he said it. That's how I want him to play it

but burying it for the family values clan is a bit of a joke to me.

The hypocrisy is infuriating and I don't see how that is not a real as well as an emotional issue. They take our pieces off the table and disrupt the entire country over this exact kind of stuff and get away with it. We wring our hands and wag our fingers in unison but are hands off with them. I have great difficulty having the audacity to tell anyone it should be off the table. It's far from my substantial real problems with Palin but if it works then use it and I'll repent later. Our country has done infinitely worse for lesser causes.

It's not a big focus of mine but how is this not fair game. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The Palin's getting bloodied is far better than what Governor Palin intends for MILLIONS OF GIRLS. MILLIONS!!! Not to mention us fellas as well.


Hammer away on all fronts and look for every possible chink. I think we are more or less fighting for our way of life. A teenager in Alaska getting her 15 minuets is not something I'm personally going to lose sleep over. She'll get a book deal and get to hit the talk show circuit, I've taken worse punches in life but am all against taking the hits that McCain/Palin have in store for America.

I assure you that I am for any venom, a kinder and more merciful person than either of the fascist running for the White House or the devils that are their masters but I'm not so sweet to object as a private citizen to their hypocrisy and it should be up for exploration. This is much of the basis of her appeal. If it gets stripped away, we're all better off. Palin is a hatchet wielder, she should be undermined. We don't want her on the board, now or later. Take her out now while she's weak, I sez.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

55. The Political postions of "Abstinence Only" and Faux Honesty are not off limits. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

59. Loud and clear, Senator.

K&R :kick:

[NancyG]

62. Done. I've copied the statement on another discussion group. nt

[Orsino]

63. The pregnancies, births and motherhood that Palin would force on other teenagers is fair game.

A minor being forced to raise a child, abortion and adoption being off-limits to a powerful political family, is a terrible thing. Sarah Palin would not allow abortion in America, so teen pregnancy must be highlighted in any serious effort to oppose her agenda of misery.

We need not attack her daughter; it ought to be enough to have sympathy for a girl apparently raised without sex education.

[RoadRage]

64. Political Brilliance..

Obama once again takes the uppper road, and looks very professional and admirable in the public eye. As opposed to John "I like to run ad campaigns comparing Obama to Paris & Brit" McCain.

Once again.. he looks good by keeping his "elite" head above the fray. And, he draws many of the independents who want someone who looks and acts presidential.

[BearSquirrel2]

105. He's the quarterback ...

He's the quarterback of the team. He's supposed to fly high and above the fray.

We're the grunts and the guys on the other side have no qualms about chop blocks. Sarah Palin's honesty is ABSOLUETLY a topic that is fair game. If it's honesty about her daughter, that is fair game herself. The daughter herself ... she's off limits.

So ... just hammer her on being reckless in her flight back to Alaska. Do you really want such a reckless person running our country? Let The Equirer take care of the maternity issue.

The women I have talked to about this were shocked by the behavior of Palin.

[Fox Mulder]

65. Well, the Republicans would do the same damn thing if it was the other way around.

[nichomachus]

68. If it were the other way around

the corporate media and the RNC would have hounded the candidate out of the race already.

[L. Coyote]

141. And you would then say what? "Back off" right.

[Fearless]

71. I bet it means whatever anyone thinks it means.

[underpants]

72. I completely agree great move by Obama

but get this story some air is about all it takes these days and that has been accomplished.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

73. We don't have to say boo about it anymore. The media is on the case.

This is a titillating, easy-to-follow, human interest story. I feel very bad for Bristol, she certainly doesn't deserve to be dragged through the mud, but this is the way our MSM is and Gov. Palin knew that when she chose to accept the VP spot.

[ProSense]

75. Yes, there are other related

issues

Anyone who believes that Obama's statement was intended to take all related discussion off the table is kidding themselves. In fact, his response was made necessary by the GOP's claim that he was fueling the other rumor.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. Sorry but she is a social conservative who shoves her family values at the rest of us

And if she wanted privacy for her family, she shouldn't have accepted the VP nom.

[Richardo]

80. Take it up with Barack.

:shrug:

[ProSense]

84. There is nothing to take up with Barack

He's the candidate. He said he hopes that people who support him will realize family members are off limits.

He didn't say Palin and her political views on pregnacy, etc. are off limits. He also didn't say that the possibility that McCain was unaware of this is off limits.

Regardless, the story and the legitimate implications of it are out there already.

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. Barack Obama is not my father or my boss.

:shrug:

[Johnboi70]

78. Agreed

If we get nasty, we will walk into a right-wing trap. We could easily get caught saying nasty and possibly specious stuff and end up being accused of being bigots. Remember the Republicans are playing a hide-the-bigot game of their own, they would like nothing better than to be able to accuse us of being "just as bad." If there is dirt to be found on Palin, the press or even the Obama campaign will find it. If there is a narrative to be made about McCain shooting from the hip, then Obama and Biden need to make it.

It's worth noting that Pat Buccannan complained on MSNBC that Dems needed to get as nasty as Republigarcs. He even asked why Guantanamo never came up. Civil rights for terrorists is not an argument I want to be a part of during this campaign... too easy for the 'pukes to spin. Same goes for Palin. The real story with here is that there's no "there" there.

[pansypoo53219]

79. i agree.

but, mcPOW is clearly insane/incompitant.

[jules1962]

81. understood Obama

I will not blog or make comments about a 17 year old girl. I wish that the repugs had treated Chelsea with more respect. I will leave this story to the tabloid rags.

[ThatsMyBarack]

82. Well said!

:patriot:

[marlakay]

86. i don't think he wants anything to do with it but you can

sure bet he is glad she is being taken down and by default mccain's judgement on who he choose.

[Duer 157099]

87. He's being consistent. Families and their values are none of his business

However, to Palin and McCain, family values *ARE* their business, which makes *THEIR* family values "OUR" business.

Get it?

[yellerpup]

91. He didn't get this far by being wrong.

We only represent him if we reflect his values. Obama is the leader of our party and we need leadership through this tricky situation. I will follow his lead. :dem:

[Festivito]

93. Sorry. I don't understand anything without a link.

Just the same, I only wish the best for each member of the Palin family, especially their children.

[carolinablue]

95. What kind of mother would do this

The reason I think this is relevant is that it shows what terrible judgement and how little grasp of national politics Sarah Pallin has. Did she think this would not come out??? She's not in Wasilla anymore. As a mother ( or a father), I cannot imagine making a decision that would affect my family the way this one is going to affect hers. The rumors about the baby were going on befor she was chosen, if she didn't know this would come to like, she is much too naive to be the VP!!

[Festivito]

109. Whoa! (I did find a link, although it's AP.) And, welcome.

This if for four of your 21 posts. Welcome to DU. When slow, be careful, the button has usually taken a hit and posted even though the confirmation is slow. I've been here for years.

A LINK TO A LINK OF OBAMA'S STATEMENT:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3899060

Yes, the facts, such as they are, did come out. BUT, it is not for us to hoist them and run all over. There is enough other stuff to keep us busy.

She is not necessarily the naive one here. She did not ask us not to speak about this. McCain lambasted it and so did Obama. She knew, she did it anyway.

My reasoning from another post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3899597&mesg_id=3900393

[carolinablue]

96. What kind of mother would do this

The reason I think this is relevant is that it shows what terrible judgement and how little grasp of national politics Sarah Pallin has. Did she think this would not come out??? She's not in Wasilla anymore. As a mother ( or a father), I cannot imagine making a decision that would affect my family the way this one is going to affect hers. The rumors about the baby were going on befor she was chosen, if she didn't know this would come to like, she is much too naive to be the VP!!

[carolinablue]

97. What kind of mother would do this

The reason I think this is relevant is that it shows what terrible judgement and how little grasp of national politics Sarah Pallin has. Did she think this would not come out??? She's not in Wasilla anymore. As a mother ( or a father), I cannot imagine making a decision that would affect my family the way this one is going to affect hers. The rumors about the baby were going on befor she was chosen, if she didn't know this would come to like, she is much too naive to be the VP!!

[carolinablue]

98. What kind of mother would do this

The reason I think this is relevant is that it shows what terrible judgement and how little grasp of national politics Sarah Pallin has. Did she think this would not come out??? She's not in Wasilla anymore. As a mother ( or a father), I cannot imagine making a decision that would affect my family the way this one is going to affect hers. The rumors about the baby were going on befor she was chosen, if she didn't know this would come to like, she is much too naive to be the VP!!

[drm604]

99. K&R

I guess Senator Obama is now a concern troll. :sarcasm:

[kwenu]

100. I understand it. Obama will take the high road and WE will trash the hypocritical idiots.

[Cha]

102. Yeah, they are off limits..

And that means his family, too.

[D23MIURG23]

106. Thanks.

All this baby blather is distasteful and possibly counterproductive.

[Waiting For Everyman]

108. It's Palin's own fault 100%

She could've cleared up any part of it months ago while the rumors were in Alaska before the "lower 48" even knew about it. And she still hasn't come clean on everything. She lies at her own risk.

And it's HER being criticized, not her kids. She isn't going to hide behind them, any more than McC can hide behind POWs anymore.

IMO the blogosphere did good on that one.

[savistocate]

175. please~~~~~~~~~daddy can't we pile on Palin.

No it is not the daughter-- it is the elephant in the room --with high heels on.

[emilyg]

110. k/r

[Lindsey]

111. Obama is a man iof incredible integrity....We the people can look at this

and remind our fellow citizens that the right wing religions wackos of the Republican party are the ones who believes that absitence os the eay to lower teenage pregnancy. This is proof positive that the lack of birth control and the lack of sex education is unbelieveably asinine.

[baldguy]

112. And I'm looking for a President, not a moral arbitrator.

Shit like the Palin Family Soap Opera represents the core of Republican hypocrisy. The sooner Obama realizes this the better off he'll be.

[defendandprotect]

114. Interesting how GOP stuff is off limits, but the Clinton blow job was the

material for a $70 million/? 6 month impeachment where NOTHING else was discussed but
that affair - blue dress, cigars, he told a lie under oath!

I think we have to decide this stuff as we go along ---

When the GOP has done such great harm to women over the last 8 years -- and more --
with cut backs in family planning money internationally and pressuring the United
Nations --- doing real harm to UN family planning programs -- I think this story
becomes a POSTER for GOP insanity on the issue of birth control and abortion!

[puebloknot]

115. I am smart enough. I understood what he said: Don't pick on the woman's daughter.

I did not read into that statement any "instruction" to ignore the acts of the mother, who could end up in the White House, in our worst nightmares. The hypocrisy of this woman in covering for her daughter, then declaring her satisfaction that she's done the right thing, is of concern to We the Voters because she supports extremist policies which she would like to impose on the rest of us and *our* daughters. It's the mother who is of concern, not the daughter. But it is inevitable that the public will want and need to know about the family of those who would be king/queen -- to use a phrase that is all too true now, unfortunately.

To the degree that Obama is willing to deal with truth, and not spin, to win the election, I'm his ardent supporter.

[steve2470]

116. k and r nt

[pollo poco]

117. k & r, agreed-'nuff said

[cwydro]

118. Yep.

Thanks. K and R.

We are lowering ourselves to go to that level. Just wrong.

[cliffordu]

119. k and freakin' R

[mirrera]

121. Sigh... that is why I think he needs to be our President!

Thanks!!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

122. I get it, too! I don't give a fuck about who's baby is what? This woman is unqualified!!

PERIOD!!!!

[Old Codger]

123. absolutely N/T

[SpankMe]

124. I'm smart enough to disagree.

I'm smart enough to understand the statement, Richardo. I'm also smart enough to disagree with it.

A. Gov. Palin would be the proverbial heartbeat away from the presidency. Therefore, ALL aspects of her life are in play - including how her child-rearing skills square up with her rhetoric and political philosophies on matters of sexuality and morality. The Republicans gave us no quarter when Clinton was exercising his personal moral failings - even though they had nothing to do with his ability to govern.

B. The Republicans field themselves as the party of moral values. Driven by excruciatingly conservative Christian activists, they push and try to legislate issues of teen sex, teen pregnancy and giving birth out of wedlock. Gov. Palin is one of these severe Christians. But...she is asking for a pass on this after failing to keep her own house in line with her moral beliefs as a parent. This is unacceptable given that she and her party criticize and vilify sexually active teens, pregnant teens and those who "coddle" them.

C. The Republicans would give us no such leeway on an issue of equivalently egregious hypocrisy.

I am truly shocked at the number of posts asking for restraint on this issue. This situation resides at the very core of Republican hypocrisy and must be a part of our (the opposition's) drumbeat.

[Richardo]

134. Certainly you can disagree -

But the candidate, who I'm sure you'll agree has defied all odds to date to even BE the candidate, prefers his supporters not to delve into the family issues.

I respect his wishes, and certainly defer to HIS expertise on how to run an effective campaign.

[chill_wind]

146. Good observations and welcome aboard DU. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

126. Yep!

[Bluenorthwest]

127. Hey then maybe...

Perhaps next time some bigot asks him about GLBT equality, he'll say 'other people's families are none of your business' instead of blathering on about his 'values' and how he agrees with them that my family should be discussed and voted on and used for wedges. Maybe.

[SammyWinstonJack]

193. !

:thumbsup:

[lumberjack_jeff]

128. Being born to an unwed mother is no reflection on a person.

Arguably, a teen unwed mother is a reflection on the fundy whackjob who parented her.

[Blondiegrrl]

129. I agree 100%. Besides, talk of the pregnancy is taking valuable time away from

Troopergate and Secessiongate. Now THERE'S something to talk about. :evilgrin:

[Politicalboi]

130. Well until the National Enquirer

Says it's so can we at least get a laugh out of this.....

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=19e4pj

I don't know if it's for real.

[Enthusiast]

172. It's a pump, not a semi-automatic. nt

[AnotherMother4Peace]

131. "I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want

respect!" And I also want to know all about this hypocritical family, and woman who would be one heartbeat away from being the president of my country.

[Richardo]

132. You get the gold medal of the day for referencing my favorite Fredo speech

:rofl:

[PeaceNikki]

133. K&R

:patriot:

[lisainmilo]

135. Obama is a class act!

:)

[SpankMe]

136. What do we do with the AIP story, then?

I request some guidance.

Obama also said he wouldn't - and nobody should - question anyone's patriotism and love of country (with reference to the USA, I assume).

Yet, we DU'ers are piling on Palin for having been a member of the Alaskan Independence Party - a party whose activities and platform infer a desire to secede and no longer be a part of the USA.

I'd call AIP membership unpatriotic since it desires separation from the United States.

Since Obama said questioning of one's patriotism is off the table, should I cease my attacks on the AIP ties?

Thank you for your opinion on this.

[medicswife]

143. Pass the Popcorn please

:popcorn:

Thans. That's good popcorn. Can I please have some more? :popcorn:

:dem:

[hay rick]

137. Obama's doing his job, we're doing ours

He can't touch family. We can. The Republicans call themselves the family values party. We can and should ridicule the Palin's trailer park family lifestyle. Her chaotic and dysfunctional family life is a poor recommendation for an otherwise inexperienced person who would be one heartbeat away from the most responsible and important job in the world. Shooting down this bimbo is a patriotic act! Not NICE? Love your country and get over it.

[Richardo]

139. Take it up with Barack. He asked 'his supporters' not to.

So what does that make you?


Oh yeah, nice 'trailer park' slam. Real classy.

[hay rick]

142. his supporter but

not his subordinate. Feel free to march in lock step.

I think "trailer park" is a fair description of a family in which 43 yo mom and 16 yo unwed daughter are pregnant in the same year.

[depakid]

153. I think I'll go with George Lakoff

and leave those who want to walk lock stop to whine and complain along with the far right.

Reproductive freedom is too important to be left to consultants or a campaign that are too afraid to offend the fundies by framing the issue using ammunition that's been handed to us on a silver platter.

[L. Coyote]

140. BARACK: "Back off' Which part of that didn't you get?

Why are you playing into the Rs?

[hay rick]

145. The Rs don't care about me

But maybe some "independents" are having second thoughts about this whole family values thing. Let's help them out.

Here's the part of "back off" that you don't get. WINK. WINK.

[Jester Messiah]

184. Absolutely untrue.

Barack's supporters reflect on him. The Hannity's and Limbaugh's of the world will observe your behavior, and then conclude (publicly) that you're implementing Barack's plan, and that his protestations are delivered with that "wink-wink" you speak of.

We're all in this together. What stains one stains us all.

[Bluenorthwest]

201. Then I will ask again...

Why is it when asked about my family Obama says he agrees with Palin and her ilk that we are lessor and not deserving of equality? Why is it that he does not say 'other people's families are not your business' to them?

What stains us all is the exclusion of some to please the dogma of others.

[Jester Messiah]

206. Hyperbole.

BO has never come out and said what you are accusing him of having said. I understand that he's not been an advocate nor defender of the GLBT cause, but neither has he come out against it (Gaffes with questionable "entertainers" not withstanding.)

[AlbertCat]

218. If you think...

...I'm gonna run around scared of what Limbaugh and Hannity say about me, you are nuts! They're gonna say something vile and stupid about Obama supporters anyway. Let'em blow hot air. Neither of them will address the issues of teen pregnancy, or the failure of "abstinence only" crapola.

[trickyguy]

138. I think I get it. Protection of families. Is it that hard to figure out?

:7

[pettypace]

144. It relates to Palin's performance in these two ways

1) 43 year old woman gives birth to a fifth child knowing there's a greater risk in birth defects at that age

2) Christian conservative cannot keep her own 17 year old daughter from becoming pregnant.

Speaks volumes to the lack of sound decision making on this candidate's part.

[Wetzelbill]

147. Somebody who advocates abstinence only who has a pregnant teen

is stepping right into a policy debate. Don't go after the child or the family, but make a policy point.

[aaronbees]

165. Yes, absolutely

It's the hypocrisy, people, and the fact Veep pickaroo Sarah Palin would help guide policy. Some here don't quite get the distinction you make. Sarah Palin's abstinence-only BS and anti-choice rhetoric are all fair game as policy issues now. Don't have to go after the kid or family to talk about that. Palin stepped right into a mess she made.

[Wetzelbill]

236. I think focusing on the kid, misses the point entirely

She's in a good enough life situation where she'll be fine, you know? But not only can't Sarah Palin stop her child from having sex, pretty much every person in the world can't either. That leads into a policy debate on abstinence only etc. If somebody points fingers at the kid and says: "Look she's pregnant blah blah blah" that makes Palin look like a victim. I'd just say something like, or if I was to write a column about it: "Congratulations to the Palin family etc...." and then make policy points about how abstinence only doesnt work or whatever. It's not about the child, it's about policy. And that hypocrisy points just how false the GOP premise on this policy is.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

148. Kids are off limits, certainly

However, the issue of her placing more importance on a stupid fucking speech than on her life and the life of her unborn fetus which she purportedly wanted to give birth to is fair game as I see it.

It demonstrates that her decision-making skills are clearly as reckless and poorly-considered as her running mate's.

[LittleClarkie]

149. For me it's her pro-life stance

If she can stick her nose in the business of other women, and point to the birth of her latest child as an example of her commitment to pro-life ideals, then I have a few questions.

It is not my business how she raises her children. It is not my business whether she decides to work or stay home with them.

However, she made the decision to have a special needs child, but would deny other women that choice, even though they might not have the same resources she does. And she must have those resources, or running for veep wouldn't even be an option.

I guess I don't want her children held up as some political standard by her when her situation is quite unique.

Does that make sense, or do I still sound like a sexist.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

152. It's the hypocrisy of her "pro-life" stance...

Like the majority of her colleagues, life isn't the issue at all. They're merely anti-choice.

[windoe]

150. I understand taking the high road is the right thing to do

but after seeing some of our best political leaders and candidates destroyed with personal attacks, it is sorely tempting to use these methods--because they worked so well against us!
I do believe in doing research because the facts will speak for themselves.

:) Obama and Biden are running one awesome campaign!!

[Withywindle]

151. People will do what they want, but I agree.

I'm starting to feel really, really bad for Bristol. It's hard enough being a teenage mom (especially with a mother like that - you KNOW she's gotta be hell to live with) without the public insults. Some of the stuff on DU is right over the top -- getting her boyfriend busted for statutory rape? Really? My GODS.

We all know Palin's a hypocrite, and we all know that, shock and surprise, not only does abstinence-only "education" not work, but sometimes teenagers rebel. (Sometimes they should. I almost want to applaud Bristol!)

I'm furious at Palin for putting her daughter through this - but just now that we know the information is out there, we don't need to contributing to the dogpile.

[Indi Guy]

154. K & R...

...'nuff said. Let's move on.

[democracy1st]

155. thanks man this sh.. was getting crazy

[ekwhite]

157. I'll agree with that, as long as Troopergate is still on the table

Her private life is off the table, including anything that may be happening to her daughter. Public corruption is definitely on the table in my book, though, as well as her relationship with the dominionists.

[DissedByBush]

158. My Obama respect meter just bumped a couple more notches n/t

[elzenmahn]

159. I would agree...

...keep the kids out of it. The last few days have provided a bumper crop of ammunition about Ms. Palin, her "character", and her "ethics", without needing to involve her family. Kudos to Barack for staying above-board on this issue (and in doing so, making the RepubliCANTS look like the bottom feeders they really are.)

Personally, I would be surprised if she stayed on the ticket. If she does - and knowing what an unqualified puppet she would be if she should, God forbid, assume the presidency - then I would suspect that the Repubs have something "special" planned for the next couple of months, think October surprise with an Middle-Eastern flavor and a hint of Russian thrown in for good measure.

But, IF the Dems continue their post-convention momentum pickup and we continue to bust hides for the next two months, it will all be irrelevant, whatever else the RepubliCANTS concoct.

[Spiffarino]

160. I agree.

Sarah's daughter is pregnant. It's a family issue. OTOH, Sarah outright lied in her first nationally-televised public speech.

THAT'S news you can use, my frenzzzzz...

[Zookeeper]

162. Posters on other websites are expressing determination...

to connect the questions about Sarah and Bristol Palin to the Obama campaign. I have seen this on the NYTimes, FR and Fox websites.

We need to tread very, very carefully and make sure our questions are about SARAH PALIN's judgement and qualifications and express nothing but sympathy for her daughter.

[jcla]

164. Obama and Biden can take McShame and Palin on the issues.

They don't have to question the families or smear them as Michelle and Barack were smeared (and are still being smeared) during the campaign. While I question her secessionist views (do we want a potential Jeff Davis a heart beat away), her anti-gay stance, her Roe v. Wade hate, her Dominionist views, her big oil fixation, her comments of Global warming et cetera her family life should be off limits... except when she abuses her office to get her ex-brother-in-law in trouble.

There is enough here to paint a vivid picture we do not need to smear her family...(question her loyalty perhaps...especially with AIP lurking in the background)

[Enthusiast]

173. Besides, if we smear Palin and her daughter

the Rovians will frame the argument to their advantage. We can't ignore the fact that their talking points will be repeated 100:1 over ours. They will say "Look at this beautiful healthy baby, a baby the Democrats would have killed before it took a breath."

We can't win folks, not until we regain a portion of the print and TV media.

[Name removed]

166. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

180. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

205. You are not Obama

And Obama is not my owner. Americans are the wrong folk to look to for knee jerk followers. He wants ME to be silent? Well first he needs to stand up for my family, without reservations, instead of pandering to Palin's ilk using my family as a political football. So let him step up and show how it is done.
As pitiful as it is to see Palin's kids hear this crap, I wonder if Obama has ever thought about the children in GLBT families- 7 kids in my extended family- when he talks about those families being inferior in the eyes of God almighty? Is it not hard for them to hear a man like Obama say that thier parents are lessor, sinfull, and deserving of a seperate and unequal set of laws? Do those kids cross his mind when he sharpens his agenda? I do wonder. Why are Palin's kids the only kids who count?
And another thing. There is no reason that these politicians have to drag the kids into the public eye. No reason but the ambition of the parents. They use those kids intentionally. It is a choice they make, to use the kids. Use the kids. Once the parents have taken that sick turn and made their children into calling cards and window dressing for an agenda, it is simply delusional for them to think they can control it.
If they want the kids to be off limits, don't place them in the spotlight, don't have them interviewed, don't give them a mic. Those choices are made by the parents alone. They- in this case both Palin and Obama- have placed their kids like poker chips on the most vicious table in town. They did this by choice, and with full understanding of the results.
The kids, once made into public figures by their parents, are what their parents made them-public figures. Don't want your kids used, don't use your kids. It is very simple. Want me to stand with you as you dictate? Then stand with me. Simple.
Use your kids and others will too. Disrepect my family, do not expect me to put on kid gloves for some Republican's family.

[PeaceNikki]

241. Aren't you just a friendly lil a ray of sunshine?

[Moochy]

242. Agree 100%

lol if it were not for Level 1....

[FedUpWithIt All]

168. Checking in....

:hi:

[catrose]

169. yep. Me too.

[Suji to Seoul]

170. While I enjoy watching family values hypocrites get their bullshit called

A child is off limits. Completely!

Unfortunately, Republicans attacked Ed Muskie's wife for her anti-depressant use, Chelsea Clinton and Hillary Clinton (when Bill was in power). Few seemed to object, and most on the right seemed to relish it.

If the Republicans want to interject family, they need to be able to take it too. They lowered the bar. People who try to raise it are looked at as weak in today's politics (look at Gore, Cleland and Kerry).

Smash these people with sledgehammers (figuratively).

[greyghost]

171. Amen, one should bring a gun to a gun fight. I'm not on Obama's

payroll, I'll fight them on their terms.

[Frumious B]

174. It wouldn't be an issue if not for Sarah Palin's advocacy of abstinence only sex ed.

IMHO the woman is basically using two of her children as political props to showcase her pro-birth (not "pro-life" just "pro-birth") cred.

[Shiver]

176. I'd Rec it if I could, but my post count appears to be too low...

Understood, family is off limits, and I would agree completely...

...except that's not the reality of politics, of the political mind. McCain and Palin are horrendously weak on the issues, so they're using the symbolism of their personal narratives to appeal to the voters. And if some of these false claims and contradictions are not addressed, then they are going to get away with it.

An article on http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/the-palin-choice-and-the_b_123012.html">The Huffington Post talks about this;

The Republican strength has been mostly symbolic. The McCain campaign is well aware of how Reagan and W won -- running on character: values, communication, (apparent) authenticity, trust, and identity -- not issues and policies. That is how campaigns work, and symbolism is central.

-snip-

Palin is the mom in the strict father family, upholding conservative values. Palin is tough: she shoots, skins, and eats caribou. She is disciplined: raising five kids with a major career. She lives her values: she has a Downs-syndrome baby that she refused to abort. She has the image of the ideal conservative mom: pretty, perky, feminine, Bible-toting, and fitting into the ideal conservative family. And she fits the stereotype of America as small-town America. It is Reagan's morning-in-America image. Where Obama thought of capturing the West, she is running for Sweetheart of the West.

-snip-

At the same time, Palin is masterful at the Republican game of taking the Democrats' language and reframing it -- putting conservative frames to progressive words: Reform, prosperity, peace. She is also masterful at using the progressive narratives: she's from the working class, working her way up from hockey mom and the PTA to mayor, governor, and VP candidate. Her husband is a union member. She can say to the conservative populists that she is one of them -- all the things that Obama and Biden have been saying. Bottom-up, not top-down.

Yes, the McCain-Palin ticket is weak on the major realities. But it is strong on the symbolic dimension of politics that Republicans are so good at marketing. Just arguing the realities, the issues, the hard truths should be enough in times this bad, but the political mind and its response to symbolism cannot be ignored. The initial Democratic response to Palin -- the response based on realities alone -- indicates that many Democrats have not learned the lessons of the Reagan and Bush years.

Ignoring certain things, basically, amounts to bringing laser-pointer to a lightsaber battle. All they have is character, and it needs to be shot down; when that has happened, then some actual discussion of serious issues can begin - which is exactly what they don't want.

What needs to be done, is to not go full-tabloid on these topics, but not let them die completely. A thin line must be tread, keeping these ideas alive but dissociating ourselves from them. Ideally, I think everyone would prefer to simply stick to the issues - I refuse to touch the baby thing, personally - but that's not how things work today. (And, I've been thinking lately, did McCain nominate this scandal-attracting woman just to get everyone's attention away from the issues?)

There's no need to talk about any of this directly; mention her views on abstinence-only, but don't bring up the pregnant daughter. Alaska Secession not for a lack of patriotism, but for the illegality of it and her 'Alaska First' ideals. Family is off-limits, I agree, but family values have always been a political issue...

Troopergate, her lack of experience, McCain's judgment, - those are all still on the table. And if the last few days are any indication, I'm willing to bet there is a lot more fun stuff that will be uncovered.


~Shiver, who wonders how much of that seemed kind of ramblish...

[frogcycle]

177. I'll reply just to keep it kicked.

[liberal N proud]

178. I understand it

The only thing that is of relevance here is the misguided "values" of Sarah Palin. She caused her daughter this trauma because she believes Abstinence Only education. That is fine except she plans on forcing that on everyone else's kids as well.

Now we can talk about her policies but can we leave her kid out of that conversation? I don't know if it will be entirely possible.

Her policies DO need to be made known.

[kayell]

181. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Palin's name went up there just to

create this kind of disturbance. "Look how anti-woman the dems really are", "Look how they attack families", "How horrible that a good woman had to step out of the race because of the evil dems attacks"

I fact, I'd lay money on this being the main reason for Palin's nomination. And of course it's a nice distraction and eliminates time needed to really dig up info on whoever will be their REAL nominee.

[Shiver]

186. Agreed

Not to mention it's also taking away attention that should be given to the actual candidates, policy, and issues. Not to give McNugget too much credit, because I honestly believe he thinks this might be a great choice, but this added side-effect could be entirely intentional.


~Shiver

[cabbage08]

183. K&R

[SmileyRose]

185. I'll second that.

[harmonicon]

187. how dare I disagree with someone that I'm going to vote for!!

Any more marching orders?

[davidpdx]

188. Yes and furthermore, people have to understand that things like

this can backfire. Certainly you don't want her to get sympathy from the ugly things being said about her. Although I was very curious about the whole thing, I prefer to keep my mouth shut on the subject and hit Palin on her stance on the issues.

[sampsonblk]

189. Obama is doing the right thing, unlike some here

He is a man worthy of our support.

[penndragon69]

191. so true..

Her family is her business.
But if she would LIE about this minor family mishap,
Can we trust her not to lie about WAR CRIMES and Corruption?

Don't trust this pile of MOOSE SHIT !

[AmyCamus]

192. We can beat them fair and square on the issues and their records.

It seems that DU has Rove/Swiftboat-envy, and wants to win dirty rather than win clean.
We can beat them by being better than they are.

[Marrah_G]

194. I never recommend postsn that start with "Recomend this post if

That's why we have polls!

But to answer your question, I do understand Obama's statement.

[EV_Ares]

195. You don't get it. DUers are not attacking her daughter which Obama is talking

about, nor Palin. DUers are talking about Palin's qualifications and honesty. Does she have the qualifications to be VP? Is she honest and does she have integrity? So far, thanks to DUers and other bloggers asking these questions, we are finding out the answers to those questions. Also, the MSM has to look into all of this mess because of the way she was picked and the bloggers. How does someone come out of nowhere and all of a sudden is our country's VP candidate? A very important question that needs to be answered.

[bitchkitty]

196. I get it.

But there are many posters who will try and read between the lines so they can continue smacking their lips over it.

[MuscleBear]

197. I get it but......

With the GOP shoving their 'moral agenda' down our throats for years now, I feel it is appropriate to bring up the topic.

Also, why hasn't anyone asked for Palin's medical records to be released?

Certainly that would clear up all of the rumors flying around the internets.

[EstimatedProphet]

198. Proud to be #240

[LynneSin]

199. This was never about the daughter....

...this is about a woman, someone who is a heartbeat away from being the president (well could be if those assholes win) wants to regulate me with what I do with my body, the birth control that I use and the sex education we give our children.

So I think I have the god given right to question what she has done. How can a woman who can't even teach her daughter abstinence-only be expected to tell the rest of the world that's what she needs to do.

Personally, if the woman was pro-choice I wouldn't give a fuck.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

200. I'm just hoping screen shots from yesterday, from here or KOS don't end up on

GOP campaign commercials.

:scared:

[sandyj999]

202. I totally agree. We have more important things to focus on. n/t

[mcgindydem]

203. This May Backfire

I think we all need to be careful in pursuing this issue. Remember she is pro-life and her daughter is having the child, thats going to garner her a lot of sympathy. It will also shield her, much like McStupidbutlucky has with being a POW. If she had aborted the child that would have been the ultimate smoking gun against her conservative values whereas now it will just serve to shield her from questions of whether or not her youngest is actually her daughters child. As previous posters have stated she has other issues that, to me, seem more viable than the fact that her 17 year old daughter is pregnant. I mean these are the same repugs that laughed off the bush twins underage drinking if I am not mistaken. Don't get me wrong I would love to smash McBrainless and the repugs but imho this would garner them more sympathy that scrutiny.

[sui generis]

204. don't agree

there is a difference between attacking someone's kid or family and attacking the bad behavior they engage in.

If you don't understand that then recommend this thread.

[Stump]

208. Good politics or not...

It's being a good human being...and that gets respect in my book.

[AlbertCat]

209. I understand it

It's of course off limits for him and his immediate staff, but not us. Because it's too good! And this kinda thing won't be off limits on talk radio.

Besides, it's like Larry Craig. No one cares when her daughter got pregnant or what she's doing with the baby....EXCEPT FOR THE COVER UP AND THE FACT SHE IS SO REPUG PRO-FAMILY... ANTI SEX EDUCATION. No one cares if Larry Craig is gay and likes his weenie sucked in men's public bathrooms, except he is anti- gay and Mr. Family Values.

It's the hypocrisy, stupid! That's the story, not the actual pregnancy.

[L. Coyote]

211. Error: You've already recommended that thread.

I knew that, but .....

[disndat]

213. Maybe, because

Obama's mother was also in her teens when she gave birth to Obama. On the other hand, Obama's mother wasn't running for VP on abstinence and moms should-stay-home ticket. Palin seems to be turning off more voters for the Repugs than the Iraq war. Palin has so many other negative issues as well. At any rate, she is keeping the Repugs busy trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.

[DinahMoeHum]

215. Concur. The issue is McCain's rationale and judgement

in picking Palin as VP candidate. Methinks the verdict is in: Piss Poor.

:evilfrown:

[rucky]

216. Agreed. But I hope this issue sheds some light on the need for real sex ed programs.

ABC is a good compromise.
and support for single moms.

[Apollo11]

228. ABC leads to pregnancy

It suggests that if you are being faithful to one partner (your boyfriend) then there is no need to use contraception.

[RiverStone]

222. Get it!

Kicked :)

[kestrel91316]

223. Palin is fair game, as is her vaunted "executive" management skill or lack thereof.

[Kweli4Real]

224. I get it and agree ...

But can you just imagine what the republican talking points would be if it was Obama's unmarried, but pregnant, 17 year old 15th cousin twice removed?:crazy:

[LSK]

225. see this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3900435&mesg_id=3900435

[jgraz]

226. I understand it perfectly (wink wink nudge nudge)

[Apollo11]

227. OK. But let's also defend ALL teenagers right to be informed about contraception.

Sarah Palin and many other so-called "family values" Republicans have a long track-record of trying to prevent teenagers getting access to accurate and objective information about sexual health issues in general and contraception in particular, notably by attacking the provision of sex education in schools.

[JohnnyK]

229. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge...

Barack would've done Monty Python proud.

We get it, Obama... full steam ahead!

[happygoluckytoyou]

232. sorry OBAMA... U R WRONG.... the entire FAMILY lives in the White House

[Imagevision]

233. So, make sure none of you Republicans bring up anything about my wife again for politacal reasons..

what part of that don't you understand?

[iamthebandfanman]

234. but, i thought our job

WAS to do the dirty work so his hands can stay clean ?

of course hes gonna say they are off-limits.. it looks good and well, id imagine hed like people to not try to go after anyone in his family...

unfortunately , we arent a part of his campaign...
we are people who hang out on a liberal forum.


in noway can i tell that anything that was said on here has hurt his campaign.


now, thats not to say people on DU have been fuckin rediculous lately... cause they have... and theyve gone overboard on stupid shit....
but you also hafta keep in mind there are lurkers and trolls on DU who fan the flames ... your average intelligence poster is not.

to suggest you either get with the program or your stupid tho, thats just as rediculous

[Kajsa]

237. Recommended yesterday, would R again

if I could.

How would we feel if the Rovian Repugs went after Malia and/or Sasha?
--or one of Biden's kids?

:grr:- that's how I would react.

Hi Ricardo! Great thread!

:hi: :)

[Richardo]

244. ..

:hi: THanks!

[BanTheGOP]

246. You miss the point...

By nature, most republicans are more interested in vetting their agenda against real working people than bringing up THEIR kids. Look at the stark differences between Jimmy / Amy Carter, compare it to Ronald / Ronnie Reagan, and of course Bill / Chelsea Clinton to George Dubya / Paris & Brittney...er, Jenna and Barbara. NO CONTEST.

It is in fact a byproduct of their own REPUBLICAN MINDSET that prevents them from being good parents. And THAT is why the republican party can not just be rebuked politically...it must be destroyed any way possible.

[BanTheGOP]

243. I respectfully disagree with you FULLY, and here's why...

Obama is an incredibly great man, probably the most prolific human being of the 21st Century. His ascension to presidency would be an INCREDIBLE shining light of humanity in a world destitute via republican policies and edicts.

But this is not just about Obama. You see, I want him to be president. But that is minor compared to my REAL agenda:

I WANT TO SEE THE COMPLETE, ABSOLUTE DESTRUCTION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

The republican party is NOT about political discourse. It is the mechanism which uses its feed, capitalism, which is money produced by hard working people but is transferred to the republican elitists to further demonize and subject the workers to harsher and harsher conditions. They are now at a point where you can't even VOTE them out of office as they have invalidated the democratic process. We all KNOW that.

In short, the republican party has evolved from a party of dangerous ideals, to an organization that surpasses the horrors and vilification that even the Third Reich provided. Instead of a few million poor souls killed in concentration camps, we have an insidious organization that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of millions worldwide, along with the probable destruction of the planet with its capitalistic greed.

I repeat: this is NOT politics, but is a war. NOTHING SHORT of its total incapacitation can be accepted!

NOTHING less than invalidating EVERY issue the republican party stands for, which in most cases is a destructive, insidious, hate crime against humanity. It is the PARTY that needs to be destroyed, and if we have to attack its officers and proponents in the process, we will do it...ANY WAY POSSIBLE.

That INCLUDES rebuking a woman whose daughter has essentially NEGATED ALL "LOGIC" that the republicans have put out...and that's why we must POUND POUND POUND this issue!

Obama may, in fact, he MUST remain above the fray...

But the fray MUST BE FOUGHT. And I'll be DAMNED if I'm kept out of the mix!!

[heliarc]

245. Exactly why she should stay away from our right to have

real science inform birth control and women's health issues instead of her nonsense imposed religious and/or moral standards.

[Catamount]

247. K&R--n/t

[femrap]

248. So can we discuss policy?

Teaching only abstinence in schools? Palin's view that raping women is OK and the victim must carry the child to term and then have the rapist in her life forever....just one big happy family?

Palin doesn't mind incest either....wants the victim to carry the developmentally-disabled child to term and then where does the $$$ come to care for this child?

IMHO, the daughter already had the baby 4 months ago. This is just a fake pregnancy that will end in a miscarriage. Just how stupid does Palin think we are????

It's fraud....and someone has been watching too much 'Desparate Housewives.'

BTW, 'Nice' got us NOWHERE in 2004 and 'Nice' will get you NOWHERE in 2008. Either FIGHT with all you've got or go home and get out of the way.

[janet118]

251. Here's the thing . . .

I think you may be right about the baby switcheroo, but unless someone can come up with real proof - not just some pretty convincing photos - anything we say can be discredited. Hell, sometimes even real proof is discredited.

I think the blogs were right to push this story in the beginning, but it is time to stop. It's out there and the media is already trying to shame anyone who tries to criticize Palin's parenting or use her daughter's alleged condition to say Palin's stands on sex education, contraception and abortion are neanderthal. Now is the time to focus on Palin's more issue-based problems.

If (when) her daughter has a miscarriage, you can bet it will be blamed on the unbearable stress of being in the media spotlight. The media will then try to direct the blame towards bloggers and the Obama campaign. The sympathic storyline will then be complete, with the poor young couple and the doting mother with the Down Syndrome baby as the heroes and the arrogant, evil, and mean-spirited Obama supporters, the villains.

I smell Rove. Be careful out there.

[femrap]

258. You sound as if you work for Rove....

so we're supposed to be nice and say nothing about her hypocrisy. It's just a repeat of '04. I'm sick and tired of tiptoeing around. The repugs own the Media....they'll spin it to their advantage no matter what we do.

I'd rather go down fighting than holding my tongue, smiling, and being nice.

Too bad BO doesn't have a woman who can fight for him....

[Erda]

249. Many Americans have forgotten. . .

what it was like before Roe vs. Wade became law. Women were shamed for becoming pregnant if they were unmarried. Many died having unsafe, illegal abortions. Town gossips had a field day with the "dirty little secrets" surrounding unwanted pregnancy.

If American women lose their freedom of choice and the state intrudes itself into these most private matters we will return to those days.

This public discussion of what should be a private matter is being played out in the Sarah Palin story. It would be good for American women to pay attention now because, if we lose our right to control our own bodies, what is happening to Bristol Palin will return as commonplace if pregnancy is once again stigmatized.

[balrabbius]

250. Shun the republicans.

The republicans are making our country look foolish.

The republicans don't exist.

Ignore them.

Shun them.

Turn your backs to them, and don't look back.

Family, friends, parents, whatever.

I'm asking that everyone shun the republicans. There are no republicans.

[Patriot Abroad]

252. No relevance to Palin's performance as a governor or potential as VP . . .

Which we should be able to find enough fault with to discredit her without even having to get all nasty and personal - I mean, we are talking about one of the least experienced, possibly least qualified people ever for the position.

Dammit, if I'd known the bar was so low I would have sent John-Boy my resume!

[Beregond2]

253. What else could he say?

I WANT him to stay above this sort of thing. For those of us who have nothing to lose, and for whom the result of this election is literally a matter of life and death, nothing is off limits, nor should it be.

I am delighted that this board is full of people for whom politics is some kind of intellectual game that can't possibly effect their lives in any meaningful way. I hope someday to join your ranks. But as of now, I'm willing to use absolutely anything to bring down the Repigs.

As for it "undermining" our candidate; what planet have you been living on for the past thirty years? Here's a buck; go buy a clue.

[saracat]

254. I respect this statement from Obama. As the son of an unwed teenager himself, he understands the pai...

this is causing this family and the daughter in particular. This young woman did not have any say in being thrust into the spotlight and her "personal" life is not anyone's business. If one cannot attack the mother's record without involving this child they are not good campaigners. Period.
It was wrong when the RW trashed Chelsea and it was wrong when Amy Carter was made fun of. It was wrong when the media stalked the Bush girls when they were teens and this is very wrong. Bravo to Obama for having the class to attempt to stop this and the intelligence to realize that this also can cause major blow back. GOBama!

[JuniperLea]

255. Mon Sep-01-08 12:54 PM

Well, there's your time stamp... you'll have to pardon anyone's snark should you post something about poli-kids post this timestamp:)

Just sayin'.

[mvd]

257. I do understand

It's a good idea to not get involved and stay above the fray. Personal stories tend to play with the media better on their own. Sad, but true. If McCain attacks Obama's family, however, things should change in Obama's stance.

Obama can't control the blogs and message boards, though. There's no reason why there can't be payback for the RW blogs.