I feel sorry for Bristol Palin.

[Skinner]

You can't choose your parents. If Bristol Palin weren't the daughter of the presumptive nominee for vice president of the United States, none of us would have ever heard of her. She would have been just another unplanned teen pregnancy -- which is unfortunate, but certainly not fodder for 24-hour cable news or political online chat.

In my previous professional life I was a political campaign researcher -- in other words, I was the guy who dug around in courthouses and libraries collecting information about our opponents. It would be nice if we lived in a political culture in which that type of work was unnecessary, but we do not. The sad truth is that people claim to hate negative political attacks, but then vote based on the negative information provided to them. Our campaigns are a sort-of "negative attack arms race," in which neither candidate can afford to unilaterally disarm.

Sometimes, it can be ugly work. But (believe it or not) there actually are standards. One important rule is that families are off limits -- especially children. But there are exceptions. The most important exception is that if the opposing candidate chooses to use a family member to advance their campaign (beyond simply having that person appear in photo-ops and campaign events) then that family member is fair game. The classic example from recent history is when Bill Clinton campaigned for president in 1992 and promised to give his wife a prominent role in his administration. That gave the Republicans an opening to attack Hillary Clinton. After all, if she was going to act as a sort-of co-president, didn't the voters have a right to know what sort of co-president she was going to be?

Bristol Palin is not going to have any high-level job in a McCain administration, even in the unlikely event that McCain actually wins in November. By any standard, she should be off-limits.

If only it were that easy.

Unfortunately for Bristol Palin, the country faces an unusual set of circumstances which makes it unlikely that she would be completely spared from the harsh media spotlight. I'm not saying it's right. But I am saying it is almost inevitable.

I blame John McCain. And I blame Bristol Palin's parents.

By now it has become obvious that the McCain campaign made a hasty choice for their vice presidential candidate, and did not fully vet Bristol Palin's mother, Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska. I would hope that in this day and age, the fact that any candidate might have a pregnant teenager would not disqualify that person from higher office. But sadly, it is still seen as something that is relevant to one's fitness to serve, and is virtually guaranteed to start a media feeding frenzy. If the McCain campaign did know about Bristol Palin's pregnancy -- a big if -- then they should have been better prepared to deal with the issue when it came up. They should have had a plan.

And yes, I blame her parents. It has been said -- and rightly so -- that Governor Palin would not have had to field questions about the appropriateness of running for higher office with a newborn baby if she were a man. (To be clear, I am referring to the birth of the Governor's son.) I think that is probably true. But I am not so sure that a male candidate would have been spared questions about a pregnant teenage child. Particularly if that male candidate were a conservative Christian advocate of so-called "family values."

Before I continue, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I am a work-at-home father. My wife is the primary breadwinner for our family, and works outside the home during the week. That makes me the primary caregiver for our two children. I understand that discussion of anyone's family choices can easily be interpreted as sexist, and I also understand that family choices are usually irrelevant to one's fitness to serve in public office. But I do feel that my personal experience as a work-at-home father and primary caregiver for my children does at least give me the ability to say what I would do if I were in the same situation as Todd and Sarah Palin find themselves. If I were offered an opportunity to serve as a vice presidential candidate when my teenage child (son or daughter) was facing an unplanned pregnancy, I hope that I would decline. Facing an unplanned teen pregnancy is difficult enough. It seems cruel to make your child do so under the intense scrutiny of a presidential campaign.

But who knows? Perhaps Governor Palin thoroughly discussed the issue with her daughter before she accepted the vice presidential position, and her daughter understood what was likely to happen, and her daughter insisted that her mother take it. Maybe Bristol Palin is a strong, self-confident young woman who can thrive in a situation like this. For her sake, I hope that she is.

I think if Governor Palin were not such a complete unknown, then her daughter's pregnancy would not have been such a big deal. But I think because John McCain plucked her out of almost complete obscurity, and because she did not possess a well-known record of achievement, the media -- and voters -- are grasping at anything right now to fill in the blanks.

So, I wish all the best to Bristol Palin. I hope that she gets all the support she needs during this difficult time. And I hope that she can regain her privacy sometime soon. I am a little embarrassed and ashamed that I have been following all the details of the Palin family as they trickle out into the media, so I am not completely blameless here either.

But I want you to know that I am rooting for you, Bristol Palin, and I hope everything turns out okay for you. (Even if I am not rooting for your mother to become the next vice president.)

[book_worm]

1. you're right. Bristol's pregnancy (as Obama said) is not an issue what needs to be focused on

is her competence and experience to be VP. Her ethical conduct in office. And McCain's judgement in making such a selection--one heartbeat away.

[TwilightZone]

2. Agreed. I've said the same thing a few times in the past couple days.

No one deserves to be used as a political prop by her own mother.

[Marie2]

133. What are the consequences of that statement?

How is Bristol being used as a prop?

Can a woman not run for national office if she has minor kids?

Or just if the kids aren't pregnant or something?

I keep pointing out this double standard. I don't like it. How are her children used as a "prop" any more than any man's? They exist; they are there; they appear on camera while she accepts. Is that using them as a prop? Are women supposed to be childless, or hide their kids, or wait until they are grown before they dare to run? Can only men appear on stage with their children?

President and presidential candidates of all stripes appear at rallies and acceptances and so forth without being accused of using their kids as "props." Why can't Sarah Palin have her family introduced without being accused of this b.s.?

[Karenina]

157. As of today Bristol and Levi are the toast of the tabloids in EUROPE!

PREGNANT 17 yr old to DECIDE U.S. ELECTION?

[ayak9]

158. Who said Bristol is pregnant?

This doesn't really pass the smell test. McCain's campaign leaked the news of this "pregnancy" to dispel the rumors that Bristol was Trig's mother. The baby bump looks very much like post-partem uterine thickening. I'll believe this pregnancy when I see the actual baby. Miscarriage? The story of Sarah "Daisy Duke" Palin's 22 hour labor has more holes in it than the arctic ice cap.

[Karenina]

161. Her MOTHER, to be precise. Where have YOU been?

:shrug: SARAH PALIN announced to the WORLD that her daughter, Bristol, is pregnant. As a result, the young woman's privacy has been utterly and irretrievably violated BY HER MOTHER as she is the topic of the day in tabloids AROUND THE GLOBE. Such a betrayal... :puke:

[Minimus]

3. Awesome post - as usual.

[ogneopasno]

4. Nicely put.

So true.

[Montauk6]

5. This is probably the most BRILLIANT summation of negative campaigning!

"Our campaigns are a sort-of "negative attack arms race," in which neither candidate can afford to unilaterally disarm."

That's our election system in a nutshell; everybody claims to hate negativity in politics but it's precisely that dirt that (unfortunately) keeps people riveted and all too often determine not only the outcomes but the choices we get.

[Median Democrat]

6. Absolutely Agree, McCain's Kneejerk Decisionmaking Helped Caused This Fiasco

If like most other VP candidates, McCain had leaked the consideration of Palin as a trial balloon AND her daughter's pregnancy, then this would largely be regarded as old news. However, due to the hasty nature of the decision, and a desire to kill the buzz following Obama's speech, McCain surprised everyone and Palin herself in choosing her as his VP.

McCain had six months to choose. Palin's daughter's pregnancy could have been rendered a non-issue. Instead, all of the baggage is now going to come out all at once.

You mentioned that perhaps Palin thoroughly discussed the issue with Bristol. However, the timeline of McCain's decision suggests that Palin herself did not have a lot of time to consider the nomination, since she was offered the nomination on Thursday, and was not considered to be on the shortlist before then.

Just like Bill Clinton's brother Roger Clinton, and Carter's siblings, these issues would have come out. However, a little bit of deliberation on McCain's part could have siginificantly reduced the fallout.

[Marie2]

134. A non-issue?

Palin's daughter's pregnancy could have been rendered a non-issue? What does that mean?

She should have had an abortion she (I guess) didn't want in order to improve the chances of her mother's election?

?????

Is that what you are advocating?

[FedUpWithIt All]

7. Spot on...

Thank you.

[PeaceNikki]

8. Classy

:thumbsup:

And agreed. I was a teenage mother, too. I was 17 when I found out I was pregnant, 18 when I delivered. I mistakenly married the father and ended up in a 10 year abusive, drug-riddled, alcoholic marriage.

It has been very very hard.

I wish Bristol and her baby the best.

[Celebration]

9. Sarah Palin's judgment

Since she has not been that much of a public figure, we look at decisions she has made to see if she has good judgment.

Some of those decisions involve things like flying for 12 hours after her water broke in a high risk pregnancy. Without that backdrop, Bristol probably would have escaped much attention.

Blame the mother. I feel sorry for Bristol, too. I bet they are not close. Sarah seems like a narcissist. That is the real issue-- Sarah and her relationship to her family really speaks to her character and her judgment. It just isn't a pretty picture. Poor Bristol--imagine having a mom like that.

[Virginia Dare]

10. I feel sorry for any 16 or 17 year old girl who experiences an unplanned pregnancy..

for the record I don't think it took much digging around for this story. From the moment her mother put her in front of those cameras her current and/or previous pregancy was quite apparent.

The story was already making the rounds in Alaska, it then made it's way through the Internet, as these stories will when a relatively unknown has just been thrust into the public eye.

Assuming her mother knew what her situation was, I think it's rather irresponsible of her to put her daughter in this situation, I think it shows blind ambition and arrogance on her part. Especially if she is going to blame her daughter's exposure on a bunch of anonymous people who were just repeating rumors that were already out there.

[tblue37]

Sarah's insistence on "abstinence only" sex ed and her opposition to

contraception also make discussion of Bristol's situation inevitable.

I do feel sorry for the girl. I hope her life isn't ruined by all this nonsense.

[depakid]

51. They not only make it inevitable, they make her a poster child

The mom is basically a single issue candidate- a nutter chosen to further the fundamenalists' extrememist beiefs.

[verges]

115. BINGO!

That's why I honestly feel it's a legit issue. I'm sure she's a nice kid. And SHE really hasn't been attacked. As near as I know, only facts have been stated (except for the bizaare Sarah's the mom Peyton Place type stuff.) The facts undrline Sarah's hypocrisy. Chelsea was treated much worse; and she was only 13.

[Duer 157099]

11. You know who I feel sorry for?

The teenage girl who finds herself pregnant in a fundie family where abortion is not an option, but who ALSO does not have health insurance and family and money and resources to deal with such a situation.

I don't feel sorry for Bristol Palin.

[PeaceNikki]

16. That's the cool thing. Compassion is a limitless resource.

It's possible to have it for people like Bristol as well as people without money.

[Duer 157099]

26. You're right, of course

and I realized that was the weakness in my argument as soon as I posted it.

OK, I feel less sorry for Bristol than those other girls. If I had to choose which one to personally assist, I know where my actions (not just emotions) would go.

[PeaceNikki]

28. I get that.

:)

[ProSense]

12. That is the sad fact,

Palin brought this upon her daughter, and that goes directly to her judgment and McCain's.

[TheKentuckian]

21. I don't think even the most active in bring this data to light

mean any harm to Bristol and aren't talking about her as an individual. She is being used as almost a hypothetical example of how destructive, stupid, and out of touch Governor Palin's dogma is.

I feel bad for the unborn child being born into a nut house and being set up for another generation of assuming adulthood too fast. I feel bad for Bristol for being given make believe options for the real world and being forced into obligations she cannot be prepared for.

I'm sorry for Bristol but my worries are for the millions of Bristols Sarah Palin wants to create with long on intention but short on reality policies that will affect millions.
If Palin had her way poor Bristol never even knew what a condom or birth control was and inevitably was sent to a gunfight with a butterknife.

[Overseas]

68. "She's a Great Mom" was used as one of Sarah's big qualifications. And She's a Fundie,

certainly is one of them. Darling sport hunter of animals, friend of fundamentalists.

So I'm among those who are angry at the precious fundamentalists who are granted extra points for being squeaky clean Mommies and Daddies, but then expect immunity from criticism regarding said purist family values, even the mere mention of glaring examples of their failings.

We can certainly lighten up on those more intimate family values. Certainly, we Democrats are far less apt to crudely bash in the style of the current Republican leaders. They slam Democrats with untrue slime. When we highlight actual, but ugly facts, those statements are grouped together with the RNC's many unfounded, off-the-wall smears.

But sure, we can tread lightly on family matters. There are many grander American values to pursue with regard to the Palin candidacy: ethical indictments, loyalty oaths, scientific literacy, sedition, etc.

[whatchamacallit]

13. How 'bout that, reality and compassion in the same post

Well said:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[berni_mccoy]

14. Well Said! K&R. Bookmarked!

[Ganja Ninja]

15. I couldn't agree more about her parents.

What kind of family puts their pregnant unwed teenage daughter in the national limelight like this? It has to be humiliating.

[EstimatedProphet]

17. What makes this issue relevant, and how we should address it

It doesn't matter one whit whether Brittany Palin is pregnant. She's another pregnant teenager in a country where teen pregnancy has become epidemic, as we are all told by Oprah. No, what matters is that Sarah Palin has the nerve to campaign on a platform that teen pregnancy is immoral, teens should just practice abstinence, birth control for teens is evil, and every other rightwing nutcase idea which saddles huge numbers of unprepared young women with a pregnancy they won't be able to handle emotionally or fiscally every year.

We shouldn't approach this issue as "Nyah nyah, look who has a pregnant unmarried teenage daughter!". We should approach it (if we do at all) as "Gov. Palin publically stands for all the moral pretenses of the Christian Right, but at the same time ignores them when they have a personal impact. This makes her a hypocrite. What other things can we expect she will try to legislate for Americans, while making sure that the rules she supports for Americans will never apply to her?"

[juneauwhat]

160. Mom is the real issue.

 Misfeasance occurs when a public official fails to fulfill
the responsibilities of the office. Malfeasance occurres when
one violates the duties of the office. Most of the people
bogging and chatting about the new Republican Vice President
candidate’s family situation are missing the true relevance of
the issue.  Everyone seems to bring her own agenda to the
meeting and discuss it in terms of “family values” or a
child’s “right to privacy,” or to simply bring an
anti-establishment ax and begin swinging away.  The problem I
am finding in my frustration with what is being posted on the
net is that we all seem to be lacking two very important bits
of data that are highly relevant to whether we should want to
support this Republican ticket.  What are Levi Johnston and
Bristol Palin’s birthdays.

To understand the importance of these dates, you must
understand Alaska’s statutory rape laws that, from the senior
Ms. Palin’s political profile, I must assume she supports (at
least in so far as how they affect others).  Much seems to be
made of the fact that Bristol is 17; we should want to know
how old she was last April.  If Bristol and Levi had sex at
any time when she was 16 and he was 18, which is quite
probable under the facts, he is a rapist under Alaska law and
she, if she chooses not to testify against him, is also a
criminal and should be incarcerated.  Not only that, but every
time they were intimate is a separate count and he is likely
facing life in prison.  How they feel about one another,
whether they plan to get married, mom’s attitude about the
situation… none of this matters.  And if mom is covering up
these facts or ignoring them she is guilty of malfeasance or,
at the least, of misfeasance with respect to her duties as the
state’s highest administrative official elected and charged
with the responsibility of enforcing Alaska laws.

Men are sitting their lives away in Alaskan jails and prisons
under these laws.  Women have left the state to avoid having
to choose between being imprisoned or testifying against men
they love under these laws.  Will we say to them: “sorry, it’s
so sad your mother is not a high ranking Republican,” or
“Please, the poor girl needs to be left alone this time.”? 
Republicans passed these laws in Alaska, we at least need to
know if they are only applying them to others.  We need to
know if Republican legislated morality is suddenly irrelevant
if it would make a felon of their Vice Presidential
Candidate’s future son-in-law.  He does suddenly want to get
married and not raise money for an abortion, doesn’t he?

[AuntPatsy]

18. As do you I blame her parents and I for one hope this whole fiasco does not have lasting

effects to her future...her mother knowing how the republicans work in throwing out scandals knew very well what would happen to her family...I get the feeling which makes me feel even more sorry for the young lady is that her mother is not trully a mother at all, her carreer comes first, selfish beyond belief and I also felt the same about mccain back in 2000, how dare he hug the man who was responsible for allowing his own children to be attacked as the gop attacked his family back in 2000, that bunch has no scruples and or morals, I feel for the children but can you imagine what those children will be like when they grow to adulthood?? Its all very sad...

[beac]

85. I think Bridget McCain and Bristol Palin need to form a

support group.

Those two have both been sacrificed on the altar of unbounded parental ambition.

[ClayZ]

19. K and R

[mtnsnake]

20. So you think Bill's comments about Hillary during his campaign are relevant to Bristol Palin?

Other than sticking a little dig into the Clintons, I don't understand how the comments Bill made about Hillary during his campaign had anything to do with the Palin/Bristol situation of today. Bill was making the point back then that he didn't expect Hillary to sit at home baking cookies for him. As it turns out, he did just fine, and so did she. Republicans didn't attack Hillary because of what Bill said about giving her a role. They attacked her because strong, intelligent women are a threat to them.

[Skinner]

23. The primaries are over.

Give it a rest.

Please.

[mtnsnake]

34. Thats just precious, Skinner

"The primaries are over".

No kidding.

FYI, I've been nothing but supportive of Obama since the primaries ended, and I didn't diss Obama in any significant way DURING the primaries.

It's you who took the unnecessary swipe at Bill to make your point, not me, so if you want me to "give it a rest", then just go ahead and give me one yourself. You've got the power.

[Danger Mouse]

104. I think he had a point.

[Bleacher Creature]

22. But Skinner, I thought we were supposed to be a "hateful leftist blog"?

;)

[Balderdash]

44. We were a hateful leftest blog

all damn weekend. And now we're going to blame everyone but ourselves for our part in trashing this kid and going after Sarah Palins family. First with the absolute bullshit about Amniotic fluids leaking and maybe Trig isn't Sarahs baby and on and on. For the love of what we supposedly believe in take some damn responsibility.

[Bluenorthwest]

64. You know, I got to say...

In my book, on DU 'we' is folk with donor stars. Where is yours? Is that it there, hidden behind your agenda?

[spoony]

66. That poster's been here five years longer than you.

Not that it matters, since right is right and they are right.

[juajen]

76. I've been a DUer for over five years, and during that time I've been

unable to donate. This site does not require you to donate to be an active member, and I am sick and tired of this being used to denigrate a poster, no matter when they joined. If you're confused about this issue, just ask Skinner.

[Tansy_Gold]

92. Like others here, I only have a star because someone else

donated in my name.

I've been here since 2001, originally under another screen name, and I learned very quickly not to judge on the basis of star or no star but on the content of the post.


Tansy Gold, again thanking the anonymous friend who gave me my star.

[Number23]

99. In my book....

In my book, on DU 'we' is folk with donor stars. Where is yours?

"We" is Du'ers that aren't @ssholes who make references to people's post count or donor status.

So um, where does that leave you??? Besides being the winner for Most Unnecessarily Hateful Post?

[Jester Messiah]

126. Watch it there, moneybags.

I am sans star and have been arguing against bringing Palin's family into this cesspool of an election. It's an uphill battle, and I'm glad to see that Skinner has added his voice to the calls for restraint. If it's wrong to target Michelle Obama (and it is) then it's wrong to target Bristol Palin. That's all there is to it.

[emilyg]

130. Silly.

Not everyone can afford a donation right now.

[nichomachus]

24. Exactly

And this says it all:

I think if Governor Palin were not such a complete unknown, then her daughter's pregnancy would not have been such a big deal.

That's exactly the point. The media -- and the public -- hate the unknown. So, when faced with the quandary of "who is Palin," they start turning over rocks. And then, you never know what they'll find.

At least the other possibilities have been vetted in public. Love them or hate them, we pretty much know all about Mitt, Rudy, or even Sloppy Joe. The argument would have turned on their policies and their record, simply because we know all the other crap about them already.

I'm pretty sure if Palin had been on the scene for a while, had been through a primary campaign, had a record in the Congress, whatever, most people would have steered away from the family issue, especially since Bristol isn't a public figure herself like Mary Cheney.

The problem is that when someone like Palin is trying to make restrictive rules for you and your family -- based on "family values" -- then it's only right to take a look at her family and ask how that's working out for her. It's a valid question. It's like when politicians want to cut funds for public schools and you find out their kids go to private schools. If you're trying to shove something down my throat and are telling me it's good for me, I want to know if you've swallowed it yourself and if it's worked. Apparently, in this case it hasn't.

I feel sorry for Bristol too. She's got enough going on without all this crap. But it was her mother who shoved her into the intense spotlight, knowing this was lurking in the background -- assuming she did. I can't imagine the egomania that's involved in short-changing your newborn and exposing your daughter to ridicule to take a job for which you aren't the least bit qualified. How can that pea-brain even consider that she is presidential material?

As I said in an earlier post, I'm more qualified to be CEO of General Motors than Palin is to be the president. If I were offered the CEO's job, I would turn it down in a heartbeat. If I had family issues that would be impacted, it wouldn't even take that long.

I also feel sorry for the alleged father. He sounds like a bit of a jerk, but no different than hundreds of thousands of other guys his age. He screwed up and this will seriously impact his life for at least the next 18 years. But he and his family didn't deserve to be exposed on the national stage.

[SayitAintSo]

25. Skinner you're a class act - well put n/t

[SidneyCarton]

27. Thank you for sanity and decency.

[Prefer]

29. I mentioned taking up a collection for her and her new family

she does deserve *something* special in compensation for being thrust into a place that no one should be forced into.

[rucognizant]

146. NO WAY!

PAYOLA? Collecting and donating money to SELECTED PEOPLE, is the Repig way. MONEY is NOT compensation for lack of love, nurture, caring, maternal guidance, common sense!
Sara Palin is indicted on several counts.
1. broken-watergate: no way to put lipstick on this pig of ruthless ambition & poor judgment. ( she attended an ENERGY conference in Texas!)
2. quite logical to speculate if Bristol was the real Mom, she was holding the baby Trig and looked Absolutely miserable last Fri.,
and they tried to hid her behind McCaine! (official alaska site "scrubbed" of recent photos of Sara.; timely,?
pregnant pix of sara finally surfaced online.
3. then Mom throws Bristol under the bus and announces nationally that she is pregnant, out of wedlock. Even if Bristol agreed to it
( was coerced), she is burdened with a manically pushy Mom, still dependant, in a fix, The entire thing was shamefull on the part
of P & VP candidates, and who will cart that baby around when Bristol marries her guy and probably has little to do with her
family in the future. Her Mother in law is voting for Obama, her future sister in law & she are best friends........SHe's outta
there!
I had to get married at just 18, He was an incipient alchoholic,and gay as well....................and we divorced 16 years later.
I have made quite a batch of lemonade several times....but at 69, I am suffering the unfullfilled potential, economic hardship resulting from not having been a part of a productive partnership, accruing more than a single female is able to. ( especially an artist.)
My beloved Uncle stepped in and was emotionally, pragmatically, supportive, in the face of my parents humiliation & shame.
That's why I TRUST Joe Biden, he was one of my Uncle's cronies, and my Uncle would NOT have associated with him if he had low moral standards!

[emlev]

30. The damage to Bristol Palin's life will be even more unforgiveable if...

her mother really was chosen with full intention of having her fail and her name be removed from the ticket (see this post for details on that theory).

Did the NeoCons select Palin as someone they wanted to ruin, in the process of achieving particular ends in regard to VP selection? (It seems they felt they "had to" choose a woman, but if Palin is removed from the ticket, will their next choice be female?)

I fully expect that we'll hear in the next few days that Bristol Palin has decided to name her unborn child "Hillary."

[JimDandy]

49. Some states have election rules

that prohibit removal or addition of names on the ballot. I don't know if this applies to federal tickets, but if so the names of the Prez and VP for each party better be SOLID when the ballots go to print, because they are elected as ONE item. Anyone know the rules on this?

[LibDemAlways]

31. Bristol Palin is an irresponsible teen (one of many) with a

jerk of a boyfriend who proclaims himself a redneck and says he doesn't want kids. (When you put yourself out there with MySpace/Facebook you have to accept the potential consequences.)

Palin must have known all this going in and yet she wasn't bright enough to tell McCain, "Thanks, but no thanks. I have an infant son with Down Syndrome who requires his parents' attention. My teenage daughter is pregnant. I'm under investigation for an ethics violation. I just think I have too much on my plate right now."

I blame McCain for not vetting her properly, and I blame Palin for just sheer stupidity to think she could pull this off. What a pair of losers. And I am sorry her daughter was caught in the cross-hairs - something that was totally unnecessary and illustrates not only a complete lack of judgment on Palin's part but also gross insensitivity as a parent.

[Marie2]

135. It bothers me

that you seem to be saying that a mother whose unmarried teenager is pregnant should not be considered for political office.

I do not agree with that premise. I don't understand the logic of it. It seems to me to be very inconsistent with any type of feminism or basic human fairness.

If both of my teen daughters were pregnant, and I wanted to run for governor, or whatever, I'd damn well run and I'd take it to anyone who suggests I should stay home and be quiet.

Same if my teen son knocked someone up. I guess that should just disqualify me. BS.

[rucognizant]

147. It isn't about the pregnant teen........

It's about the Character of the Mother. If feminism means a dehumanized bulldozer rolling over everything in it's path..........
DO WE REALLY WANT THAT PERSON IN OFFICE?
The thing that was so great about the Dem Conf. this year was the strong love nurturing, supportive values. From the MEN as well!
If a MAN running for office were this cruel to his pregnant daughter, we would be critical of him for his ruthless character as well.

[LibDemAlways]

159. No, that's not my point at all. What I'm saying is that

a person needs to look at the totality of their circumstances and make decisions based not only on what's best for them personally, but what's in the best interest of their family. Fact is Sarah Palin has a special needs infant, a pregnant teen, and more than one ethics issue.

I would hope that any responsible person would make decisions to run or not run for political office, especially one as important as the Vice Presidency, by weighing the immediate needs of their family against their political ambition. In the case of high office, a politician's family is very much under scrutiny. Is it fair to subject her pregnant teen to that? She apparently thinks so.

I don't think feminism means a woman should do whatever the hell she wants. I think every person needs to strike a responsible balance between career and family, and that the needs of the family should always be taken into consideration when making career choices.

[Triana]

32. K & R - excellent post, Skinner

What irks me is that Sarah Palin runs on the "family values" business, is against abortion, birth control, and is for "abstinence only" and zero sex ed.

Now, besides being grossly hypocritical (family values?) her chosen ideology obviously does not work and her own daughter is the poster-child for that fact at the moment. It's both annoying - and sad - though as you say is no fault of her daughter's and no reason not to wish Bristol Palin the very best in her situation.

There is a tie-in with this situation in regards to policy - the policy of choice for women. Palin is severely anti-choice. That her teenage daughter is illegitimately pregnant (and likely forbidden to get an abortion even if she wanted one, did not have the education or permission to use any birth control and is being forced to marry the father) ties directly into that. Again, she is the unwilling poster-child for why those policies do not work. A forced marriage to the father of a child conceived outside of marriage rarely lasts.

It's sad - for Bristol and of course I too, wish her the very best though knowing how these things typically turn out, haven't much hope for her happiness, regardless how much she innocently deserves it.

It's annoying because it ties directly into McCain's and Palin's anti-choice and anti-woman ideologies and policies and into their very hypocrisy regarding "family values"

BUT - as you say, the child - Bristol should be off limits and not be plastered all over TV screens and newspapers. What SHOULD be plastered there are headlines questioning of the POLICIES and IDEOLOGIES McCain and Palin support and believe are viable, if they really work (obviously not), if they make sense, and if they are even moral given all the lives permanantly affected by unplanned pregnancies.

I agree that Bristol shouldn't be talked about or publicized herself. What SHOULD be the subject of this national conversation is not Bristol herself, but instead - how her situation and many others like hers tie into POLICY regarding women, women's rights, and a woman's control, education, and choice about her own body and life and how and why the "family values" supposedly adhered to by the religious right who have co-opted the Republican Party - do NOT value families, ultimately.

Or, at least that's my .02

I feel sorry for Bristol and of course I wish her the best.

[sandnsea]

33. Bristol Palin had no choice in the matter whatsoever

I feel sorry for her too, but knowing young people her age, I actually don't think the talk bothers her. Young people really don't attach much stigma to teen pregnancy anymore.

The issue is really the mother and her abstinence only education platform, and the fact that Bristol had absolutely no choice. She has a legal right to an abortion, but didn't get to make that choice because of her mother's values. Part of the Democratic platform, and women's issues, is defending girls like Bristol. She doesn't want defending, I understand that, but these are the issues. Her pregnancy doesn't matter a bit. And knowing how rural America actually responds to teen pregnancy, which is with pretty much a yawn, I can see why Palin didn't think it would be any big deal at all in accepting the VP nomination.

[rucognizant]

148. Disqualification right there!

"And knowing how rural America actually responds to teen pregnancy, which is with pretty much a yawn,"
The majority of Americans at this point are NOT rural America, why turn back the clock and allow that outdated mind set to run the country now?
Thomas Jeferson said, if over 50% of the population is no londger rural farmers, then the republic won't work.He was right wasn't he?
But many rural farmers are no longer the critical thinking, independants they used to be.......laws to the advantage of the factory farnms have left them impotent.

[ehrnst]

150. She's in a parental notification state. That limits her choices.

Which means that while she could get prenatal care, and give birth without her parents' knowledge, if she wanted an abortion (much less risky for her health), her parents would have to be notified, by law.

For a 17 year old to defy someone as powerful as her parents would have been unrealistic.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

35. Thank you for your thoughtful post, from a working stay at home Mom. That said, Bristol should not

be the focus but Palin's policies concerning Abstinence Only programs (amongst other reproductive issues). Her case is a solid example that shows that Abstinence Only does not work. Meanwhile, she has championed it, possibly placing other teenagers in the same position as her own daughter. It is a case of Palin exercising very poor judgment obviously formed by extremest religious views.

Another case of personal poor judgment was when leaving Texas for Alaska to deliver her high risk child in a high risk pregnancy(she is 44) after her water broke hours earlier. She placed both their lives in danger. These actions were so against common sense that her actions fueled the speculation that Trig was actually Bristol's child. I feel this decision is "fair game".

Palin is also being touted as an UberMom. Governor and Mother of five. Yet, unlike you and myself, it doesn't appear that their is a parental figure available for the children at home. Both Palin and her husband work. This is apparently by choice and not need. Who has been caring for her children in the last 18 months?

Abstinence Only probably has nothing to do with it but IMHO a lack of Attention that led to Bristol's pregnancy. It seems many young pregnant girls get pregnant and keep the child to have someone of their own to love and give love to them. When I have seen photos of her holding her baby brother Trig, that need is palpable.

This is once again a question of JUDGMENT. Not Bristol's but a lack of good parenting.

And yes, Palin must have known the scrutiny that she and her family would face once the truth came out about Bristol, and never should have accepted the nomination in the first place, even If Bristol had agreed. It will be difficult enough for a teenager to have a baby and to be married at such a tender age (and think about the difficult future for her husband to be), but to be placed under the microscope for the world to watch, will have to be excruciating.

I personally believe that Palin only has her own ambition in mind, and her family be damned.

[bleever]

36. Very nicely said.

The bright side is that after November, Bristol will return to Alaska, with her family, to resume life outside of the spotlight.

[Stop Cornyn]

37. This issue reflects ONLY on McCain's dilligence in vetting and choosing him runningmate.

[SarahB]

38. Recommended.

I have a lot of respect for you and for this site. Sometimes, some of it's members really turn me off with their behavior. It's interesting to see how personal experiences have an effect on one's perspective. For me, I got pregnant at 19 (a dreaded, evil teenage mom- although my fertility somehow never negated my brain or my drive to succeed). I was once a stay-at-home mom. I also have 4 bio kids (one a 16 year old girl, although I don't rely on Jesus and abstinence-only in teaching of sexual health) plus one stepkid. As of now, I work outside the home with an income a wee bit higher than my husband (who teaches and was a stay-at-home dad all Summer, now back to work). When I see over and over the judgmental bullshit about a family's personal choices, it makes me sick. Who is anyone to tell me (or you or Sarah Palin for that matter) what is right for our family?

People should stick with the legitimate criticisms of this woman and her qualifications. Leave her family out of it.

[Marie2]

136. Finally a kindred spirit!

I just can't believe some of the stuff I am reading!!

[SarahB]

149. Welcome to DU.

While I despise the idea of what Palin stands for: cutting funding for teens moms and promoting abstinence as the only method of sex ed, I do feel sorry for her daughter having to get dragged into this and the narrow few on this site who can't understand the concept that women can be successful and have a family.

[rufus dog]

39. Using a McCain/Bush gut feel - I just don't see a good outcome

Regardless of what happens with the election. She and her minor boyfriend have been thrust into the National spotlight; they had no choice in the matter and will likely be resentful. The Palin parents seem to be narcissistic and will be resentful that daughter and future son-in-law couldn't control themselves and "rained on the Palin's parade". The boyfriend's parents had no choice in this issue and will likely be resentful toward Sarah and Todd.

All to be played out under the bright lights.

This could get really bad and everyone should remember that Sarah and Todd were the only ones given a choice.

[EndElectoral]

40. Yes, unfortunately the policies of indifference of McSame/Palin have made this girl the poster child

of abstinence, lack of contraception, and teen pregnancy.

I am offended that the right has chosen a candidate that would put Bristol at the forefront at the lack of their responsible action toward educating our young people about the perils of unprotected sex.

It is not pretty that she is put through this, BUT it is an integral part of candidates McSame/Palin's policies toward federal expenditures and teen pregnancy. Their policy is one of pretending the problem does not exist ir hoping that the onslaught of hormonal imbalances in the teenagers can simply be solved via prayer and wishful hoping.

I am sorry for Bristol because her lack of education is the CONSEQUENCE of their actions.

[Prophet 451]

41. Agreed

Poor girl probably doesn't even agree with her batshit insane mother.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

42. I hope that you & the mods enforce "Bristol Palin should be off-limits" on DU.

Obama has explicitly and emphatically asked for it, in language that makes it fairly clear that he really means it and is not just asking for the look of the thing.

Also, it's clearly the right thing to do.

Unfortunately, Bristol Palin has attracted more negative attention here on DU than just about anything else about her mother.

[woo me with science]

102. Seconded. nt

[emilyg]

131. Third.

[elocs]

105. I'll second that too. Let's take the advice of Obama. Stop the family feeding frenzy.

There is so much to be critical of Palin outside of her family. I'm sorry that so many believe that in order to win we must out Republican the Republicans and in doing so we become the worst of the worst. We're better and smarter than that.

[mzmolly]

43. I had no idea you were at one time, a political researcher.

Fascinating. And, bravo to you for helping to break down gender barriers by being a stay at home Dad. :toast:

To the matter of Bristol Palin, you raised excellent points.
1) Perhaps the child was fully supportive of her Mother taking the VP slot?
2) Most importantly, Democrats don't run for office under the umbrella of "family values."

If Chelsea Clinton had gotten pregnant at 17, do you suppose James Dobsons reply would have been:

"Being a Christian does not mean you're perfect. Nor does it mean your children are perfect. But it does mean there is forgiveness and restoration when we confess our imperfections to the Lord. I've been the beneficiary of that forgiveness and restoration in my own life countless times, as I'm sure the Palins have.

"The media are already trying to spin this as evidence Gov. Palin < (insert name Hillary Clinton) is a 'hypocrite,' but all it really means is that she and her family are human. They are in my prayers and those of millions of Americans."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/dobson-on-brist.html

That's much like what Dobson had to say about Bill Clinton's "human" adventures in the Oval Office, correct?

[demobabe]

45. I am infuriated

Clearly, Bristol should be left alone. But this is the problem: Bristol HAS been left alone. Not by us, but by her parents who put their own careers and greed ahead of their family.

Do you realize Todd Palin works the North Slope (yeah, that's at the VERY TOP of Alaska, nowhere near Wasilla) one week on, one week off. Sarah's office is in Juneau. So please tell me, who is taking care of these children - all five of them - a majority of the time being that neither parent is even in the same city as the kids?

There is a lot of haste here, and a lot of finger pointing to Sarah and Todd Palin (McCain too, of course). Is it any wonder Bristol got pregnant, has been seen partying, and drinking? You mention you're a stay at home dad, which means YOU take care of the kids. Who is taking care of the Palin clan? Where is the support, the backbone, the role models for these children?

Where are the supposed Christian values? Does it say in the Bible to abandon your family to pursue the will of your ego? Last time I checked, it said quite the opposite.

Then there is the complete lack of judgment on both McCain and Palin thinking running Sarah would be in the best interests of her family, exposing Bristol to national scrutiny. That was GOING to happen. No way around it, when your values are Abstinence only, anti Birth Control, and anti Sex Ed. It was clear Bristol would be seen as a failure of Sarah Palin's own platform, a clear indication that Abstinence only doesn't work. Bristol was sacrificed for the cause by both her own mother and John McCain.

How more cruel does life get? At some point, Bristol will understand that not only was Mom not around, but that she (Bristol) was used by her mother and sacrificed in that ultimate greed quest.

Let me leave you with this: why do teenage girls often get pregnant? They feel nobody loves them and if they have a baby, then they'll have someone there that loves them unconditionally. It's true.

Did Bristol Palin act out because her mother wasn't around? We'll probably never know, but it is quite possible.

The thing that burns me the most is the hypocrisy and the spin and the attention to everything in that family except what really matters the most: the family itself.

[backscatter712]

46. Yeah, I agree.

Obama stated, rightly, that family members are off limits.

Unfortunately, the media has no respect for such admonitions.

Bristol's gonna get the Brittney Spears/Paris Hilton treatment from the media - things will be very rough for her.

[yellowdogintexas]

47. Thank you for this most thoughtful post. I do agree with it absolutely

I can't say that I could ever read every single thing that passes through this board but I do have to say that for the most part I am seeing criticism directed precisely where it belongs: towards Sarah Palin and John McCain for all the reasons you stated more eloquently than I ever could.

That poor daughter just got caught up in the vortex. I could never bring myself to put her down or be critical of her, but her circumstance does open her mom up for immense criticism.

I do fault her mother's judgement at many levels

[LittleClarkie]

48. A few thoughts...

I've been conflicted about Palin since the announcement of her candidacy for VP, and had trouble articulating why. The three things that were introduced to me right away on the radio were that she believed in God, and that she was both pro-life and pro-gun.

I floundered on Friday trying to articulate my feelings. I felt like crying and I didn't know why. (Maybe it was the thought of the arguments I'd end up having with the conservative Christians at work.)

I've decided a couple of things since then, and I think I know what was bothering me now.

First, the declaration from the conservative morning radio host that she was excited about Palin's candidacy because Palin "believes in God" makes my teeth itch. I'm pretty sure the radio host thinks Palin believes in God because Palin believes as she does, and that's her proof. Generally, I feel like some look at me as a second-hand Christian because I am both relatively liberal and a Democrat.

Second, I just want Palin to keep her nose out of the reproductive business of other women, and I wish she'd stop using herself as an example of pro-life ideals when not everyone has the same resources she did when faced with the birth of a special needs child.

It's not that she chooses to work or even run for the vice presidency after the birth of her child. That's not what bothered me. I apologize if I left that impression on Friday, that I expected her to stay home like a good little mommie. I didn't mean to present a double standard. My opinion wouldn't change if Palin was a man, and using the birth of the same child as an example of his commitment to pro-life issues. The circumstances would be the same, and the inappropriate use of the pregnancy to prove a political point would still be there. It would still be obvious that the family has more resources than the average family to cope. And it's not fair in that case to act as if you are better than someone else who might be forced to make a different decision based on their circumstances.

I do wish the best for Bristol as well, and I generally disapprove as you do of going after the children of the candidates unless they've been out campaigning as Chealsea had been. And I don't really mean to drag Trig into this mess either, poor little four month old guy that he is.

I'll climb off my soap box now. Sorry if this is a bit of a tangent from what you were trying to get across, Skinner. Just trying to figure things out for myself.

[FatDave]

50. If Bristol Palin weren't the daughter of a nutjob fundie...

...she would have been on the pill and wouldn't now be pregnant.

[PeaceNikki]

56. Be real. Not every teenager who gets pregnant is the daughter of a "nutjob fundie"

[FatDave]

78. You're right.

So please add an "odds are much better that" into my other reply.

[PeaceNikki]

79. OK... that I can buy.

I'm a bit sensitive because I was a teenage mother and it was NO fault of my parents who are the finest people to ever grace this planet.

[RetroLounge]

127. I know your parents

They are obviously nut job fundies...

:sarcasm:

:hide:

RL

[Marie2]

137. No.

All sorts of teen girls get pregnant by all sorts of teen boys and they are not all from nutjob fundie families.

[KoKo]

52. Thanks for sharing, Skinner...and you bring up an important point.

You and your wife made a choice that one of you would be the "stay at home" parent to take care of your two little boys. You are able to work from home and your wife needs to go outside to do her job.

The problem many of us have is with Palin's choice to have her baby with Down's Syndrome while she as in office. Whether it was her choice or the baby was a surprise. She and her husband had a photo op talking about how proud they were of that decision. That the Religious Right seems (from news reports) to have forced John McCain to put Palin on the ticket means that her "choice" was a big issue with them along with macho qualifications of her hunting, fishing, oil industry worker and snowmobile champion racing husband. The religious right didn't look beyond the "superficial" to see that these were parents who were not really supporting the "family values" that are touted by the right wing...but were two very selfish people who merely have children to have them while each goes about fulfilling their own personal ambitions.

The choice you and your wife made was that one of you would be the primary caregiver. I don't see that the Palin's have made that choice. Neither of the Palins seem to feel that one of them needs to be at home with five kids (one of them a newborn with special needs.) The husband, from all reports is away most of the time pursuing his own ambitions and the mother was mayor and now governor with enormous responsibilities even thought Alaska is small in population. Where has there been any sacrifice there which one would assume you would see when a partnership chooses, or unplanned brings children into the world?

Their lifestyle and their children are part of why the Religious Right was so thrilled to have Sarah Palin on the ticket. So, their choices are now part of the campaign coverage, as they should be. Neither Clintons, Carters or the Bushs used their children as an issue to promote the issue of abortion to appeal to a particular wing of the Democratic party. The Palins unfortunately seem to be using their kids as "Trophies" or "Tools" to express their religious views.

If I had given birth to a "Special Needs" baby and months later found out my 17 year old daughter was pregnant I would have resigned from the Governership realizing my children needed me and if my husband couldn't or wasn't willing to fill in to take care of the baby and the impending new addition to the family. I would be proud to tell the people of Alaska that my family came first...because I brought them into this world and had responsiblities to them, over responsibilities to the State of Alaska.

There are many women out there who feel as I do. Shocked that she would parade her family around especially that little "special needs" baby Trig like something from "Sound of Music." Baby Trig in the arms of the oldest daughter with a towel to conceal her pregnancy? Baby Trig exposed to loud music, lights and who knows what kind of infection from those thousands of people?

What kind of "Family Values" does the Palin family bring to the ticket? What kind of people are the Religious Right that they would applaud parents who see their children as a tool to be used for their own ambition? Parents who don't seem to get that serious parenting requires time and yes "sacrifice." it isn't something you can do part time and not have some serious family issues going on somewhere along the line.

Thank you for sharing your experience and views.

[JuniperLea]

53. Shame on Sarah Palin for putting her daughter in this position... eom

[anigbrowl]

54. I'm not worried for her, for 3 reasons:

1. Nobody is attacking her character. So she got pregnant - an impractical life choice, but people understnad it happens and it's an easy mistake to make. If anything, they're criticizing her Mom for dragging the young lady into the national spotlight.

2. It was no great secret in her home territory of Alaska, by all accounts. So not much will have changed 'on the ground'. Folks in Alaska are not going to care about the fact that she's been in the national spotlight; by virtue of being the governor's daughter, she's already about as well-known in AK as one can be.

3. I'm pretty darn sure the whole Palin family will be back in Alaska next week, and it won't be solely because of this pregnancy issue but because Sarah Palin is the political equivalent of a live hand grenade in so many, many ways. So, nobody will blame youn Bristol for messing up her chances.

Besides which, even if Palin somehow stays on the ticket I still expect Obama to win in November.

[Tansy_Gold]

55. It is not our obligation to protect Bristol Palin.

That was and is her parents' job.

An acquaintance of mine (NOT a friend) who is a staunch libertarian believes each of us is solely responsible for our own fate. He is opposed to public funding of ANYTHING, including roads, schools, emergency services, anything EXCEPT the military. His oldest daughter recently presented him with his first grandchild and I dared, in the company of mutual friends and acquaintances and in the context of a relevant conversation, to ask him if that newborn baby was also responsible for its own fate. After a few moments of bluster, this Ron-Paul-supporting wingnut sputtered, "Well, well, no no of course not! It's his parents' job to. . . ." and he couldn't finish.

By Sarah Palin's own ideology, either her daughter is on her own or it is Sarah and Todd's responsibility to protect and support and nuture and guide and encourage her. It is not OUR FAULT and it is not OUR DUTY to protect her.

SARAH and TODD were and are the ones who should be thinking of Bristol, and Track and Willow and Trig and the one whose name escapes me at the moment. SARAH and TODD and JOHN MCCAIN trotted those kids out there for photo ops and used them as evidence of SARAH'S fitness to lead this country.

In some divorce cases, the children are used as pawns, and oftena parent will relinquish custody or fork over extra support or sacrifice in other ways RATHER THAN SUBJECT THE CHILDREN TO A NASTY COURT BATTLE. This has happened in my own family (brother) and in my extended family (BF, SIL). SARAH and TODD PALIN always had the choice to put their family first, to protect their daughter's reputation (even though *I* personally don't think teen-age sexual activity has anything to do with "values" or "reputation" or any other such bullshit). SARAH and TODD and their friend JOHN MCCAIN put their campaign and their candidacy ahead of their families. That was their free choice.

They need to walk their own walk. So far, I've seen a helluva lot more evident that they ain't than that they is.


Tansy Gold, sexually active at 15 in the early '60s and smart enough even then not to end up in Bristol's situation

[Donald Ian Rankin]

77. It is our obligation not to attack her.

And while we're not obliged to defend her against those who do, it's praiseworthy to do so.

[apocalypsehow]

82. It is your "obligation" to be a decent human being. If you can't manage that, I understand. n/t.

[Marie2]

139. Shortsighted comment

You may have used birth control and not gotten pregnant, but there are those of us, even adults (I am one) who have used birth control and gotten pregnant anyway.

Happens all the time.

I hate it when pregnancy is "blamed" on people. Especially minors.

I think this country has a LONG way to go.

[MaryEllen9399]

57. I feel sorry for her

because she is going to have that tool for her kid's father.

[LynneSin]

58. WHEN THE HELL DID SKINNER HAVE A SECOND KID

:crazy:

I knew of the first one

[RoadRage]

62. About 9 months after his wife had the baby??

:) I have no idea.. just feeling like being a smartass today.

[SmokingJacket]

59. Skinner, you're a class act.

Thanks.

[Born_A_Truman]

60. I blame Sarah Palin!

Actually, according to Ms Palin herself, she told her husband and family they were going on an anniversary trip, right? Then she had Bristol holding the baby, covering her own pregnancy. Planned? I think so. Sad.

I can't imagine why she would choose to put her daughter through the national media coverage of this.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

61. I do too, and think perhaps this thread should be deleted (see link)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3906026&mesg_id=3906026

[GoneOffShore]

63. This is the kind of post that makes me glad I'm a DU'er.

Well said Skinner! Would that more people would read this, take it in and actually think about some of the things that they write here.

Your thoughtfulness puts to shame many of the posts here about Miss Palin's situation and how it can be turned to political cannon fodder.

My personal belief is that some of those posters are "agent provocateurs"

Thank you.

Sam

[redqueen]

65. Very well put...

thanks for this.

[Kitty Herder]

67. I think her mother was incredibly selfish and cruel to put this kind of national spotlight on her.

Sarah Palin had to know that this would come out in the campaign and that everyone in the nation would know about her daughter's pregnancy. That wasn't fair. She put her personal ambition above her daughter.

And there is no way to avoid this becoming an issue in the campaign. The Palins are fundies who don't believe in birth control or sex education (beyond abstinence only ed.). Whether it's fair to the daughter or not, people will talk about this. It's an indicator of the success of those particular practices--no birth control and no sex ed.

I wish Bristol Palin well, and she has my deepest sympathy. But I think her mother is a bitch to put her through this.

Here's something else I wonder. Would it be so important for her to go through with this shotgun wedding if her mother weren't running for V.P.? That is incredibly unfair to these teens.

(edited for typo, as usual)

[NM Independent]

69. Not only that, but...

She also, IMHO, was likely forced to keep it (or never considered having a choice in the matter). Her parents are anti-choice, so this crap about "we're proud of her choice" is absolutely ridiculous, WHAT choice.

Speaking of choice...How much choice does anybody believe that young Levi has about marrying? Zilch. That's not a shotgun wedding, that's knocking up the gun crazy Gov's daughter and knowing damn well that you're only option is to get married...or else (and God only knows WHAT else).

This whole thing stinks, and is a good reason for ME not to vote for them (as if I would anyhow). However, there are DOZENS of other reasons to loathe this woman (Polar Bears, Wolves, big oil, trooper gate, PART-time mayor?, ANWR, bridge to nowhere, having a special needs child (and yes that would be an issue if it were a man too), traveling ??? hours to give birth, abstinence only education, banning (or asking about it) books at the library, AIP, lack of experience (especially international), and on and on and on and on and ON AND ON AND ON....)

[Kitty Herder]

73. Agreed. nt

[terrya]

70. I feel sorry for her, also. Thanks for expressing these sentiments.

[Bluenorthwest]

71. I agree that McMommy is to blame

I have no tolerance for people who use their kids as calling cards in business or politics. None. These are deeply held feelings on my part, based on being in a business where that sort of thing is done. I did not like Obama doing that interview with his kids, and I noted that in fact, he did not like it either. Obama was right, and I hope he sticks to it, that that should not happen again. Kids are not chattel. It is possible for the children to be private while the parent is an world figure, if that is the choice made by the parents. Or they can go the Brad and Angelina/Todd and Sarah route and make use of those kids.
Once the parents have made the kids into public figures, it is delusional to think they will be 'off limits' in any real way. It is also hypocritical to make them the focus and then complain when they are indeed focused upon.

The Palins and Funny Uncle Johnny did this to those kids. What the blogs and rags and wankers in the street say is all upon those three scoundrels.

But I also laugh hysterically to myself at the very notion that some can indulge in dreams of privacy and choice in family matters in all situations, while it is generally acceptable to treat GLBT families as specimens to be public ally dissected, discussed, and perhaps even voted against. It must be great to have standing that allows you to feel upset if your family is spoken about. My family is a political football every cycle. We are not off limits, we are the ball in play. And we are not running for anything.

And bear in mind, ye defenders of small children, that GLBT families both have children and are someone's children. Our kids-7 in my extended family all with gay parents- our kids are never off limits to the politicos and pundits. They are not even thought of as people host roundtables discussing if their families are even real families. They know we are like outlaws. The kids know this.
So yeah. Off limits. A sweet dream. A straights only dream, but a sweet one.

[childslibrarian]

88. Wow that is an awesome post.

As a teacher, I want to say, I admire you and your family.

[trickyguy]

114. I understand what it's like to be a football in play. As a gay man who

was the football in my family I totally understand.

Turning children into footballs is a crime.

:evilfrown:

[Arctic Dave]

72. Thank you Skinner for thoughtful words.

May we all be humble enough to follow your lead.

[Wheezy]

74. sadly

But who knows? Perhaps Governor Palin thoroughly discussed the issue with her daughter before she accepted the vice presidential position, and her daughter understood what was likely to happen, and her daughter insisted that her mother take it. Maybe Bristol Palin is a strong, self-confident young woman who can thrive in a situation like this. For her sake, I hope that she is.

It sounds like Bristol was blind-sided by the news. :(

Hang in there, Bristol! Sorry about your stupid parents.

[NorCalDem]

75. It's McCain and the GOP that should apologize to her.

What did they expect by entering Sarah Palin into the High School popularity contest, er... I mean Vice Presidential campaign. Republicans go out and shed light on EVERY dark little secret OUR politicians have, did they not expect the same of McCain and HIS VP?!?

I won't apologize at all, Fuck the Palin's, you reap what you sow.

Edited to add: You think the Republican's will apologize to Obama's daughters for calling their father a "terrorist Muslim" (when he goes to CHURCH and everything)?!? I highly doubt it, so I'm not apologizing to Palin's daughters.

[Captiosus]

80. I agree to a point, but

she, and the republicans, did open the door for this scrutiny because they used her child rearing and her youngest with Down's Syndrome as political tools to get support for her. Her youngest wasn't just used as a photo op - they actively emphasized his Downs Syndrome to gain support. She, herself, used her son as political capital by talking about how he joined the Army.

Last night on Larry King, a spokesman for the McCain campaign actually stated her PTA experience as proof of leadership.

While yes, we should all take the high ground and leave the family out of the campaign, choosing instead to blast Palin on her issues and qualifications (which is absurdly easy to do), the repubs shouldn't be shocked, at all, that people question Bristol's pregnancy when the repubs themselves make it a point to use Palin's PERSONAL, motherly experience as a talking point for her political ability.

[wryter2000]

81. I do, too

This is so not fair to her.

Candidate's spouses are usually accomplices, but kids don't have any say in the matter.

[Norrin Radd]

83. I feel sorry for Willow,

now that she has the secret service guarding her virtue. How can she get pregnant through unmarried sex and carry the baby to birth, now, to prove her devotion to her church?

[Frisbee]

84. I agree completely, but...

can only imagine what the right wing talking heads would be saying were the situation reversed and it was one of Obama's or Biden's children we were talking about. Still, it would be nice to not sink to there depths.

[Zuiderelle]

86. I like this post.

:thumbsup:

[childslibrarian]

87. You forget an important point

They sold her as a "hockey Mom" who was behind "family values", had a disabled son and didn't abort (I heard people praising her about that). If those are your qualifications, then your family and the functioning thereof, is fair game.
I agree, as a mother, that to do this to Bristol was cruel. Also, it really doesn't matter if she talked to her dear daughter about it. There is NO way a 17 year old could possibly know what that meant to her life....

[AZ Criminal JD]

91. You attempted a character assassination against the kid

And then you stand back and say what went on was cruel. Can you be more hypocritical?

[childslibrarian]

96. Read my post again

There is no way a 17 year old could have understood what her mother was doing when she ran for president. How could she possibly know? She's 17. But the adults knew, and they let it happen anyway.

[abomb]

89. pro life

the Republican Party used Bristol as an poster child for pro life.:yoikes:

[TexasObserver]

90. "I blame John McCain. And I blame Bristol Palin's parents."

Good comment, and I agree.

This Palin nomination reeks of McCain's unstable way of doing things. He had six months to decide. SIX MONTHS. And this is what he did.

He didn't vet. He FELT.

[BlueEyedSon]

93. I don't . She should have learned her lesson from her first pregnancy!

[KatyaR]

94. Hear, hear.

I feel very sorry for her. To see her standing there on a stage behind her mother, holding her baby brother, she looks so very uncomfortable. And from what I understand, her mother has pulled her out of school to travel with her and the baby on the campaign, so she's going to be standing in front of the public on a daily basis.

My issues are mainly with Ms. Palin's "qualifications." However, more than anything, I feel sorry for a woman who doesn't think that she needs to be at home to take care of an infant with health issues and a very young, pregnant teenage daughter.

On edit: I'll make a bet that that young lady will end up being beatified as a saint of the right and end up as the poster child for conservatives everywhere. Too bad her name's not Mary.

[Arkana]

95. Absolutely. I would think Bristol would resent her mother and John McCain

for putting her in this position.

But it is not her fault her mother is batshit crazy, and it is not her choice to be thrust into the national spotlight.

[Kahuna]

97. I feel sorry for her too. There's a sadness to her expression. It

makes me want to cry for her and bless out her mother for exposing her like this.

[democrank]

98. Thank you, Skinner.

Bristol Palin and her innocent unborn child should be off limits. Period.

Three of my siblings became pregnant as teenagers, one at 14, one at 15 and one at 16. My sisters and their babies suffered terribly as a result of the town`s cruel gossip mongers. It was awful. How deeply unfair it would have been of me to compound my sisters` difficulties because of issues I had with my mother`s neglect and lack of guidance.

Leave Bristol Palin and her unborn baby alone. They both have a very difficult road ahead and I wish them all the best.

[emmadoggy]

100. Excellent post, Skinner.

I totally agree. To me, the caveat is that Sarah Palin is a strong proponent of abstinence-only education, and strongly anti-choice (in addition to the whole "family values" meme). To me, those are the stances that, unfortunately, make Bristol Palin's situation relevant to Sarah's nomination.

I feel intensely sorry for her, as well, that her mother has chosen to put her in this glaring spotlight. Like you said, if I were in Sarah Palin's position of being offered the VP slot when I had a teen daughter going through an unplanned pregnancy, NOT TO MENTION an infant with special needs, and two other children at home - I feel quite certain that I would decline. She is young, inexperienced, and would have been smart to wait until her children are older and she had more seasoning under her belt. She has time. But this woman appears to be highly ambitious (not to mention, clueless).

I wish Bristol the best, and hope she can get through this without too much damage.

Thanks for the level-headed and reasoned post, Skinner. :thumbsup:

[IsItJustMe]

101. Hear!!! Hear!!! Just because some Republicans sink to the lowest levels of humanity does not mean

we have to. Great thoughfull post.

THANK YOU

[blogslut]

103. I try not to judge other people's parenting skills

I'm not always successful in my efforts to avoid nosing into the privates lives of other moms and dads, but I try.

However, if I were a person advising the McSame/Palin campaign, I would have pushed for full disclosure, up front. I would have made Palin's daughter's pregnancy part of her story. I would have told them to be loud and proud instead of putting this poor young woman through some horrid tribulation of public confession and shame.

I don't know the decisions made in the Palin home when it came to the subject of Bristol's impending motherhood. Maybe she was fully on board. Maybe her opinion was never considered. Whatever decisions were made, the result is that America knows far more about one teenage girl's sex life than should be allowed. If they had been open in the beginning, people would have accepted it and moved on. Instead, the campaign treated it as something to hide until they were forced to tell the truth.

[olkaz]

106. I feel bad for unwed pregnant teens WITHOUT the massive advantage of a GOVERNOR for a mom!

Jesus christ, tiniest violin, right here.

Seriously, I'll not be losing a wink of sleep over this.

[Festivito]

107. I begin to think it is far worse.

They chose Palin in order to curtail the effect of DNC poll numbers. So they could quip that the numbers are not as high as they would have hoped. (Especially after this non-stop soap opera. Makes no matter how high the number truly are.)

They could dump her later, they could keep her. It does not matter to them.

That poor kid going to be thrown like a kid who fell out her rollercoaster seat just over the first hill.

[mahina]

108. Me too!

Poor thing. She should be able to go through this stuff without the national spotlight. I am proud of Sen. Obama for his decency and kindness.

[Cisco]

109. Statutory rape?

Since Palin's daughter is 17 and the father is 18, wouldn't this be a case of statutory rape?

[horseshoecrab]

116. No statutory rape

Alaska - like many states - has the law set up so that the difference in years enters in. They're usually called by a name something like "Romeo and Juliet clauses." I think that Alaska is at least 3 years age difference before the possibility of statutory rape enters in.

examples:
A 17 year old girl and an 18 year old boy would not be subject to a statutory rape situation. A 15 year old girl and a 20 year old young man would be statutory rape.


horseshoecrab

[Douglas Carpenter]

110. Thank you. I also think it is relevant that Palin slashed funding for teen mothers

Palin Slashed Funding for Teen Moms

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html?hpid=artslot


Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin wrote in her line-item veto changes by hand in this copy of a 2008 spending bill obtained by The Washington Post.

By Paul Kane
ST. PAUL -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee who revealed Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, earlier this year used her line-item veto to slash funding for a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live.

After the legislature passed a spending bill in April, Palin went through the measure reducing and eliminating funds for programs she opposed. Inking her initials on the legislation -- "SP" -- Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million. Covenant House is a mix of programs and shelters for troubled youths, including Passage House, which is a transitional home for teenage mothers.

According to Passage House's web site, its purpose is to provide "young mothers a place to live with their babies for up to eighteen months while they gain the necessary skills and resources to change their lives" and help teen moms "become productive, successful, independent adults who create and provide a stable environment for themselves and their families."

snip: "Earlier today the Associated Press reported that Sen. John McCain (Ariz.), the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, opposed funding to prevent teen pregnancies, a position that Palin also took as governor. "The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support," she wrote in a 2006 questionnaire distributed among gubernatorial candidates.

Reporters asked McCain in November 2007 whether he supported grants for sex education in the United States, whether such programs should include directions for using contraceptives and whether he supports President Bush's policy of promoting abstinence.

"Ahhh, I think I support the president's policy," McCain said."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html?hpid=artslot

.

[rasputin1952]

111. I hope the child is a strong young 'un, no disease, no problems...

the same thing I hope for for every child.

I would hazard to guess that this child will be brought up in a family of some means, and health care, food and warmth will accompany the love the child receives...and I hope that Palin and McCain realize there are others out there they have condemned in past for precisely what has manifested itself in their family.

Maybe, just maybe, they can learn something from this...optimism is not a game, it is a hard, often unheralded aspect of life. If they learn anything about how people have to deal w/things when they have nothing, perhaps my optimism will finally be paid for.

[horseshoecrab]

112. Beautifully said Skinner

I'd like to think ... No, I am sure ... that you'd be smart and kind enough to sit this election out for the sake of a daughter.

If only the Palins had half the tenderness for their child that you've displayed in your post ...

horseshoecrab

[trickyguy]

113. It's the Mommy Dearest story with Sarah and Bristol in the starring roles.

[dpbrown]

117. I expect a "miscarriage" soon

Because I think the real story is that Sarah pretended to have a baby to cover up Bristol's last pregnancy.

[Major Hogwash]

118. How would you like to be known . . .

as the guy that knocked up the Governor's daughter - and now everybody knows it.

And that fact, all by its lonesome, may cause McCain to lose in the fall.

[femrap]

119. I bet Bristol wishes she had other parents....

her actions seem rebellious or maybe she's trying to get attention. I feel sorry for her too.....I feel sorry for all young women who are pregnant at age 17.

I still think that Bristol already had her baby and this one is fake which will be ending in miscarriage. Sarah 'Barracuda' Palin is a redneck and I've lots of experience with their lies and antics.

[truebluecollar]

120. JUNO IN JUNEAU

Sorry. I couldn't stop myself. Yes, as a matter of fact, I am a dick. Sorry.

[Steelworker In OH]

121. I hope

Bristol Palin turns Democrat when shes turns 18...that would really burn her mom's hypocratic ass.

[tavalon]

122. Exactly!

You nailed it! I'm not saying anything about Bristol, I feel very badly for her. I'm saying that Sarah Palin and John McCain should never have decided to thrust her into this awful spotlight during this difficult time. I think Sarah's ambition outstrips her parental responsibilities and that McCain's campaign did a shitty job vetting (did they vet her at all?).

It's not about her daughter's judgement, it's about her mother's and Senator McCain's.

Honestly, if this "scandal" were all we had on this woman, I would be less inclined to allow this to see the light of day. But, this woman has no business on the national stage, a heartbeat away from the Presidency and while all the wonky details of why this is a disaster are immenantly interesting to me and thee, to the average voter, a sex scandal is the only thing that plays. Horrible but true.

[InvisibleTouch]

123. It's not her fault that her mother is a certifiable wackjob...

...and it's unfortunate that she's been caught in the crossfire like this. However, I don't think it's wrong (I would even say, it's our duty) to point out how Bristol's situation highlights her mother's hypocrisy. This is what happens when you don't give kids the education they need (i.e. birth control) to avoid getting into this situation to begin with, not to mention denying them a choice if they do find themselves there. It's ironic in a really sick way, too, that the rethugs are falling all over themselves to excuse the family as being "only human," "hate the sin but love the sinner," etc. etc., nearly exalting both mother and daughter into some kind of nobility for "choosing life" despite it all, when John Edwards was virtually crucified for being "only human." If there's negative fallout for Bristol in it all, well, I'm sorry, but her mother put her in that situation, in more ways than one.

[Liberal_in_LA]

124. National Inquirer saying Bristol stood up for herself...fought off shotgun wedding: article here

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/sarah_palin_at_war_with_her_daughter_over_pregnancy_wedding/celebrity/65370

Palin planned for the wedding to take place right after the Republican National Convention and then she was going to announce the pregnancy.

But Bristol, 17, refused to go along with the plan and that sparked a mother-daughter showdown over the failed coverup.

[Spiffarino]

128. Oh crap. The Enquirer is on it?

The Enquirer is something low-information voters read, and low-information voters are the Republican sweet spot.

Sarah Palin is toast.

[emilyg]

132. Seems lately they've been more accurate

than the NYT.

[Spiffarino]

153. Odd, isn't it?

But then, the newspaper industry is rapidly disappearing thanks to the internet. Journalism is taking a back seat to survival.

[tavalon]

125. You know,

being an administrator of one of the most popular Democratic message boards and being a wise soul are not necessarily inclusive. We are so damn lucky.

I'm confused though, I thought you had only one child. Clearly, you have two. You would know, after all. But as one of your groupies, I think I should have been notified (kidding).

[DeepModem Mom]

129. Skinner, you are a great guy with a good heart --

I've been convinced of that not only by this post, but by many other posts in the past. Your little ones are very lucky to have you as their Dad.

[davidpdx]

138. That's good background information for people on the vetting process

Your children are lucky they are able to spend so much time with their father, that is a very unusual situation.

I also agree with you that this situation is the fault of McCain, his campaign and of Gov. Palin and her husband. Palin should have been passed over for the selection or should have declined the chance to be a VP nominee given some of their family issues.

[the Sundance Kid]

140. you have to ask yourself if Sarah Palin really loves her child more than herself.

she didn't even tell Bristol what they were going to be doing in Ohio.
then she had to cover herself with a blanket.

It's cruel and unusual.

[emilyg]

141. K/R

[TexasObserver]

142. Me too. She's 17, pregnant, unmarried, a SINNER to her support group.

The pressure on her to have the child, to keep it, and to get married must be overwhelming. I'm sure she's grown up in her mother's shadow. Sarah Palin seems like the kind of mother who hogs the spotlight and overshadows her own kids, particularly the girls, who never quite measure up to mom in mom's mind.

[Liberal Dose]

143. Palin could've easily stopped people from mentioning Bristol's name at all, without revealing the

pregnancy of her teenage daughter. All Sarah Palin had to do was make her own medical records public.

[1Hippiechick]

144. "I blame John McCain. And I blame Bristol Palin's parents" Absolutely. It's about JUDGMENT and.

many ppl on can't seem to separate the two. The focus is not on Bristol's being pregnant (unless it is a fakes pregnancy as some suggest) What IS the issue is Sarah Palin's CHOICE to throw her daughter under the bus because of her OWN BLIND AMBITION. That speaks VOLUMES about her CHARACTER AND JUDGMENT, and that IS a consideration in her role as VP and also exposes her as a HYPOCRITE touting "family values."

Ppl here criticize posters for "...not doing what Obama said - the family is off limits...." (loosely translated). What else COULD he say? He HAS to say that! Yes, the children ARE being left out of it - I don't hear anyone on here criticizing Bristol for GETTING pregnant - that is not the story! It's about LIES, COVER UP, AMBITION OF PALIN & MCCAIN - ALL CHARACTER TRAITS WHICH NEED TO BE EXPOSED.

Lest ANYone forget, there is a YouTube clip of McCain plainly stating that his earlier run for the presidency was NOT about patritiosm - it was about AMBITION, pure and simple.

Nothing wrong with Ambition - but his campaign slogan is "Country First"? Don't make me laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYXEQvP0ibg

[Eurobabe]

145. Screw the family, it's all about THEM

Typical Republican values. Family is smoke and mirrors.

[cwydro]

151. Thanks for this post.

I hope this stops some of the more disgusting threads that have been popping up lately, threads that do not reflect well on DU.

The great majority of DUers, I believe, want to concentrate on the issues.

I wish this could be stuck at the top of GDP.

[FourScore]

152. Wow, Skinner. Thank you for saying this. I completely agree.

Good luck, Bristol!

[Tarc]

154. I still kinda like how the whole "Trigg can't be my daughter's secret daughter, because...

The fact that she's knocked up now proves she wasn't knocked up then.

Republican family values at its finest.

[raccoon]

155. Great post. Rec'd. It shows that you think things out thoroughly and don't jump

to conclusions.

THis makes me sound like a real old fogie, but young people like you give me hope.

[graywarrior]

156. Excellent posting, Skinner.

[happygoluckytoyou]

162. sad for BRISTOL.... but family is FAIR GAME.... THEY HAVE THE EAR OF THE PRES... they reflect values