The danger: The Left's complete misunderstanding of "Church Culture"

[theboss]

Palin was brought onto the ticket for two reasons - one far more important than the other.

1. Fix McCain's problems with the Religious Right.
2. Try to convince extraordinarily angry Hillary voters to cast a protest vote.

I'm not sure how many bitter-enders there really are for Hillary (I'm convinced that most of the PUMA crowd are Republican operatives). And I'm not sure how many of those would vote for a woman who would outlaw abortion in all circumstances. So, the impact will be negligible, I hope.

However, she was viewed enthusiastically by the Religious Right. And they are not going to let her go.

The Left's problem with the Religious Right has always been a fundemental misunderstanding of "Church Culture." I grew up in a church that probably wouldn't be classified as Fundamentalist, but was certainly Bible-based, conservative, and made up of the kind of people that Palin appeals to. I will call them "Church People" for short.

Church People do not care about your sin or your failings, as long as you seek redemption. There seems to be this belief that because her daugther had sex or her husband had a DUI, that church people will say "Tsk tsk" and walk away. The exact opposite is going to happen. Her support is going to skyrocket among the Religious Right after this.

Churches in this country are cauldrons are moral failings. Divorces, affairs, drinking problems, drug problems, violence problems. All of these are sitting in pews every Sunday. And everyone knows who suffers from what. And all that really matters to the typical member is that you keep coming back. Some Independent Baptist may get hung up on Church Discipline, but they are a small group and even they almost always try to find a way to keep you in the Church.

You may see a hypocrisy here considering the ugly attacks on Clinton, Kennedy, Edwards, etc. But the difference is the "in the church/out of the church" question. And, you know, some partisan nastiness.

Out of the calvacade of dirt coming out of Alaska right now, the state trooper issue really strikes me as the one with the most legs and least risk for the Dems. I'm not even sure the secessionist group will have that much impact.

Anything baby/daughter related is a very very dangerous thing to talk about.

[elocs]

1. A great failing of Democrats is that we think everyone should believe as we do

and when they don't or don't follow what we view as our impeccable logic we are totally befuddled by the whole thing and simply write them off as idiots.

[TheKentuckian]

5. They are idiots but writing them off is foolish

they must therefore be defeated and brought down.

[elocs]

23. Right, because they do not appreciate that we know what is best for them,

and for everybody else for that matter. I can't wait until Liberals rule the world--it will be heaven on earth and God help anyone who disagrees with us.

[GarbagemanLB]

2. Considering how motivated our own base is, this election will come down to Independents and moderate

s, and thankfully McCain just shot himself in the foot with this pick in that regard.

[theboss]

3. Possibly

We are still an old-fashioned country in a lot of ways and we are getting dangerously close to "piling on the poor little woman" territory.

[Drunken Irishman]

4. Exactly.

It isn't about the Republican or Democratic bases, it's about the moderate and independent voters. There is a reason Obama leads by nearly 10 points in every poll and it's because McCain has an issue grabbing those voters who aren't Democrat or Republican.

Remember, the GOP base was solidly behind Dole in 1996, but it didn't help them one lick because Clinton won his base and the middle.

[theboss]

7. The time it takes to shore up the base matters

Dole had to do a lot of ass-kissing with the fundies and resign from the Senate and make a one-pledge promise to everyone already thinking about the Bush boys in 2000. And he had to bring in Kemp for the supply-siders. It took him forever to get his soldiers behind him. And by then, it was too late.

[Drunken Irishman]

15. One could say the same about McCain and Palin.

We have two months until the election, that doesn't give McCain a ton of time to rally the base without turning off the middle.

McCain is already down 8 or so points nationally. He'll probably cut into that lead with his convention, but it won't be enough to gain the lead, or tie it up.

[phleshdef]

6. I agree whole heartedly...

I was raised in a charismatic church. I don't ascribe to that belief so much now. I'm more of a Unitarian at this point.

But I "GET" the evangelical culture and, at least if the Internet is any indication, I get the feeling that a lot of people who haven't been "on the inside" don't get how deeply entrenched the church is when you are talking about the communities that embrace them (and there are a LOT of them in this country).

Its the same reason a lot of the people who were attacking Rev. Wright are totally clueless about the inner-city, urban, African American culture and the kind of message that people of that origin want to hear in their church and just how common that type of "preaching" is in churches of that nature. Its a misunderstanding of perception for sure.

[theboss]

9. The parallel to black churches and Wright is a great one

I kept asking the people here who were all fired up about Wright this question:

"What do you think happens in black churches?" and no one had a real issue.

Too many activists on the Left think they know what goes on inside churches and they don't.

It's no mystery that the most successful Democratic politician since the 60s understood "Church Culture" inside and out. Because - and here is the real catch - Church culture is much closer to be the dominant American culture than almost anything else.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

8. The majority of this country does not follow end-times rapture doctrine. Video of her at DU link

I think the possibility of her getting next to the nukes with a desire to bring upon end times is a relevant and important subject for the general public to see.

Here's a link to a DU thread on her beliefs with link to video at Huffington Post of Sarah speaking in June 2008.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6882521

[EstimatedProphet]

10. I don't think I agree with everything you said

I do agree that the baby thing should be left alone. But, the AIP ties will completely destroy her as a candidate. How can you possibly have a vice president - next in line for president - who can't get a security clearance? The fundies will hang onto her, but no one else will, because to do so is to publically claim that you are anti-American.

[demo dutch]

11. They would never have voted Obama, but this election will be decided by Indies and I

fail to see how Indies will line up behind McCain/Palin

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. Libs use two foundations, Cons use five. Read this PDF. It's important to understand all 5.

Libs use two foundations, Cons use five. Read this PDF. It's important to understand all five.

Five moral foundations and liberals and conservatives: video: http://www.newyorker.com/online/video/conference/2007/haidt PDF: http://faculty.virginia.edu/haidtlab/articles/haidt.graham.2007.when-morality-opposes-justice.pdf

[Overseas]

13. The Left does not "completely misunderstand" church culture! Ridiculous!

We know that because Dubya repented and was born again, he was able to mislead a whole bunch of fundamentalists. Clearly, they liked that sinner.

We know fundamentalists pretend to welcome all sinners but are very hypocritical in that. Just a pretense. Only welcome sinners who have repented to their version of God.

We know those bottom lines. But when we're criticizing that hypocrisy, we're not trying to convince the Wahabi Christians (aka Christian Taliban). We're reminding moderates and independents that these fundamentalists are often lying hypocrites. That they are extremists who seek to impose social controls they themselves violate quite regularly.

We're reminding moderates and independents that as much as the fundies talk up their abstinence programs, they do not work. Even with committed parents like the Palins.

We're reminding moderates and independents that Sarah wanted Creationism taught in Science class, and issuing a warning.

We understand fundamentalist Christian culture. We also know fundies are a fringe group. Palin is part of the extremist fringes.

[Bluenorthwest]

14. I was raised in fully Fundy chruches

So I know our church called your type backsliders! And I also understand church life, and I'm way on the left. You went to some luke warm, watered down church that probably is not even Full Gospel...sure you understand it. Keep telling yourself that. Fundy is as Fundy does, and if you were not in a Fundy church, you don't know Fundy.

[NRaleighLiberal]

16. There is another, even scarier element of the Church culture, as I heard discussed by Bill Moyers -

It is that many of them actually believe that they have been already chosen for "salvation", and that no matter what they do in life, it is not possible for them to be removed from that chosen status.

I view organized religion as a very, very successful business first and foremost, with the church leadership preying on the vulnerable parishoners, most of whom like being told what to do (easier than thinking for themselves). They really scare me, on the whole.

[theboss]

18. That's Calvinism

Calvinism is its own branch on the Protestant tree.

[Az]

17. Its not what the candidate does necessarily its what they preach

And if she is pushing hard line Christian rhetoric then they will forgive nearly anything. As long as she continues to push the faith.

[FrenchieCat]

19. I am a church person, just not an extremist.

Fortunately for us, Failin' Palin is an extremist; while most church goers are not.

You are underestimating the Church Culture.

[LittleClarkie]

21. I'm glad to say that a majority of people at my church are Dems.

I was so pleased to discover that in 2004.

[LittleClarkie]

20. My church is bible based. What Christian church ISN'T bible based?

A church doesn't have to be conservative to be a bible-based church.

I've had people ask if my church was a bible-believing church. And by that they meant THEIR conservative interpretation.

So that one bugs me too.

My teeth continue to itch.

[slackmaster]

22. I'm glad a few people have found this gem of a post

:hi:

[libertypirate]

24. Your not bright

Tie her to John's neck and let her sink him.

A person goes into premature labor.

Do they
A. Get on an airplane for 7 hours?
B. Find the nearest hospital?

She is a problem.....

Oh and stop playing fear this, I don't fear people who believe in fairy tales; I pity the fools!

[NashVegas]

25. Palin Has More Appeal To Independent Men (or Did) Than She Would to Any Woman Who'd Vote for Clinton

My Republican female friends are more pissed off about Palin than my Dem friends. They're not any dumber than Hil supporters who told Dems to go screw themselves at the thought of Sebelius as VP nom.

[onenote]

26. I think Obama and his team get it. I think a lot of blogosphere types (and DUers) don't

nt

[baldguy]

27. The words "religious" and "conservative" do not mean "insane".

[Demeter]

28. In These Trying Times, They Do

Maybe not in 1970, maybe not even in 1985, but today, the subsets are identical.