Why are people picking on Levi and Bristol?

[redqueen]

And about such petty bullshit, too.

Seriously... WTF?



And regarding him calling himself "trash"... IF he did, that's his right and it's much different than someone hatefully calling him the same thing.

I can call myself a bitch if I like... but if you use that term about me in a nasty way that is completely different and all of you damn well know it.


We all have a line between what we consider acceptable and what we don't... I guess this is mine.

Picking on teenagers for no reason other than they're related to people you don't like / support for office... shameful.

[NMDemDist2]

1. actually I think they're cute kids

too bad nobody told them about birth control so they could have some fun and not have to get married in high school

[Cronus Protagonist]

51. Yeah, they're both adorable

That's a plus for George McCain, but beauty seldom comes with brains...

[Lorien]

65. Sure, cute until you read Levi's MySpace page

He's a neo-con fascist who can vote.

[trueblue2007]

2. This has been debated AD NAUSEM. Redqueen = like you mean a Republican?

[redqueen]

10. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Totally.

:eyes:

[NYC_SKP]

27. OMG....you're the Red Queen!!!!

The famous Conservative crossdresser from, I don't know, Ohio?

:sarcasm:

[Whisp]

3. so agree with you. there is no need to go there

why some weak assed minds what to wallow in this is beyond me.
there is sooooooooo much to criticize and have fun with without including the kids.

it's disgusting beyond words.

[Dammit Ann]

4. Totally agree with you.

I feel terribly sorry for those kids.

[melody]

5. Why did she stick her children out as props?

Levi and Bristol are both essentially adults. Palin made the choice to draw them into the line of fire by trying to use them in her political fantasy.

[Whisp]

12. you can't mean that when Obama had his kids on stage

that it was fair game to go after them?

pleeeeeeeease.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

15. So you think it's A-OK to act like Rush Limbaugh because her mom made a choice?

So... punish the child for the sins of the mother... is that it?

[melody]

26. When you're fighting sociopaths, you have to hit back hard

Palin is an extremist. She would destroy the tiny shreds of a Republic we've got left. So now, she puts
her adult children in the line of fire, they're fair game. This is a political war.

[redqueen]

31. Enjoy being the flipside to Rush / his fans.

Pardon me if I don't join you.

[melody]

34. If that's what it takes to knock you people down

That is what it takes. My pacifist days are long behind me.

[cwydro]

78. That tactic will not win for us and hurts the ticket.

Are you just too lazy to look for a real issue?

Palin is a right wing anti-just about everything wacko. Surely yo can find something else to get worked up about.

[greguganus]

98. I just sent an email to admins to check the ignore function to see if it is working. n/t

[sniffa]

115. "you people"

:rofl:

[greguganus]

97. I thought you had RQ on ignore. n/t

[MyUncle]

94. All candidate kids go on stage, including ours. Always. It's a formula.

[dkf]

6. They are the poster kids for the evangelical crowd.

But I agree calling them "trash" isn't going to win any fans. I don't get this "trash" thing anyway. Its not a concept we use here in Hawaii.

[Virginia Dare]

7. Because people are angry and mean-spirited and they aren't perfect...n/t

[BeyondGeography]

32. Hey, I resemble that remark

(good one)

[redqueen]

36. Yeah, you're right I know... I just figured so soon after Palin got up there and played the bully...

I guess maybe I thought we wouldn't be so quick to do the same, given such a recent example of it.

Maybe some people liked it and think it's effective.

[Virginia Dare]

75. Few people are like The Christ and can turn the other cheek..

or maybe they can only do that for so long. You reap what you sow.

[redqueen]

80. Another excellent point...

I don't expect turning cheeks... that guy didn't come out swinging at us last night did he?

This isn't self defense... this is just getting picked on and then turning around and then picking on another person.

[Virginia Dare]

83. I guess you just don't feel the self righteous anger..

that some of the rest of us do. I agree, some of it has been way over the top, but as an imperfect person, I come here to vent too, so I guess I understand where they are coming from.

[redqueen]

84. I do... I just feel a need to direct it where it belongs. (nt)

[Virginia Dare]

86. Good on you for having excellent self-control....n/t

[TwilightGardener]

8. Where have people done this? I must have missed it.

[redqueen]

17. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6924146&mesg_id=6924146

[TwilightGardener]

19. OK, one thread does not a universal problem here make.

[redqueen]

22. PLEASE tell me where I said it's a universal problem.

:wtf:

:banghead:

[AspenRose]

9. I feel sorry for them. And for the baby too.

[melody]

13. I feel sorry for the non-adult children

They didn't have a choice.

[AspenRose]

23. Them too.

It's a circus.

[onenote]

42. does that apply to all children that are paraded on stage at conventions?

Because both parties do it and have for a long time.

[TwilightGardener]

68. When those kids are undergoing a very difficult personal issue, it's probably best

to NOT join the ticket to begin with, and attend to your own affairs. Especially when you also have a brand-new infant, as well as other children who need your time and attention, and your husband is NOT a stay at home parent--sounds like they don't quite have a handle on family life in Alaska, so how would she manage it with the VP or President slot? Michelle and Barack have gone to great lengths to ensure their daughters are attended to, are not exploited, and have normal lives--Michelle quit her job when the campaign started, and her mother watches the girls when she's away--and most of the time, Michelle is there every evening. Obama has even received criticism for taking crucial time off the campaign trail to spend time with his daughters. Families are a part of campaigns, and it's fair to judge how functional they are. I see dysfunction in the Palin family, but Miss Mooseburgers and "First Dude" refuse to let it curb their ambitions--that's my take.

[confused08]

92. did the adult children?

seems like its the parent's choice regardless of whether the child is a minor or not.... i think it is odd though that you seldom see McCain's kids even though you always see his wife... I know that one or two of his sons are/were in Iraq or Afghanistan so that explains some of it but doesnt he have a bunch more? I've seen Meghan but not since after the primaries (too bad... I think she is hot, even if she probably is an evil REPUgnant-can like her dad) but haven't seen the others... doesn't have an adopted daughter or something?

just like how you seldom see Jill Biden around... just think it is odd how much focus the media puts on the Obama and Palin families but not the other two

[greguganus]

99. Did you feel sorry for Obama's "non-adult children" too? n/t

[faithfulcitizen]

11. I haven't seen such posts. If so, they are few and far between. Hardly worthy of starting a whole

new thread about it.

[TwilightGardener]

14. Agreed--if you see a bad comment, then address the commenter, or alert it--

don't start a meme that we're ALL doing it. That's stupid.

[redqueen]

18. Oh please... I didn't say "I'M ASHAMED OF DU!" or any stupid shit like that.

Perspective helps.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

39. ...

:rofl:

[auntAgonist]

41. "...don't start a meme that we're ALL doing it. That's stupid "

Where did redqueen say that we were "ALL" doing it?

[redqueen]

43. I didn't... but to be fair, those kinds of threads have been around...

they bother me as much as anyone, with the poor wording and meme-ishness of the blanket accusation / observation.

[auntAgonist]

47. NO you didn't! I was quoting the poster I replied to ..

You did nothing wrong in asking your question in the original OP.

:)

troll accusations and generalizations are rampant in this thread. You are no troll :)

:hug:

aA

[TwilightGardener]

45. I dunno, I guess that unless there's an epidemic of inappropriate threads, it's

best to contain the damage to the ONE offensive thread instead of starting another to basically scold and start a flame war.

[redqueen]

49. Thanks for your advice.

I'll be sure to check with you before starting any more threads.

Jesus.

[greguganus]

101. Next time check with a moderator-in-training. n/t

[SidneyCarton]

20. I think we've talked this one to death.

I don't think Bristol's life is relevant either. But if it weren't for sex, drugs and the occasional scandal, all we'd talk about is policy.

:boring:

[redqueen]

24. I know we talked about Palin to death... and how her daughter's pregnancy reflects on her political

stances...

However... today it seems to have gone from pointing out that kind of stuff to just open season type attacks because of a fucking tattoo the kid has.


Seriously... this is bullshit.

[Virginia Dare]

76. So just ignore those posts and move on..

because pointing it out over and over again won't make it stop. I'm not done talking about her daughter's preganancy and how it reflects on her political stances, so suit yourself.

[redqueen]

81. This was an entire THREAD that set me off.

The OP was nothing but a picture of the couple's hands... and it showed his tattoo.

That has NOTHING to do with how that pregnancy relfects on Sarah's political stances. NOTHING.

[AlCzervik]

21. I feel bad for them and i'd hate to be judged by my parent's actions.

[depakid]

25. Levi didn't look like he wanted to be there

Like Aussie lefty, I kinda feel sorry for the guy.

That said- this is politics. Not a game for the squeemish.

[redqueen]

28. Apparently Dems have adopted Rush Limbaugh's tactics.

We've gone from criticizing Bristol Palin's pregnancy because it reflects on her mothers politics... to just open season type attacks.

Seems to me that we're moving from merely questionable behavior to official Rush Limbaugh behavior.

[TwilightGardener]

30. Well...he IS an 18 year old man. Old enough to vote and marry and die for his country

and father children. He's somebody's child, but I think he's now crossed the line into adulthood, even though he does seem immature. His parents aren't protecting him from scrutiny, they and the GOP put him front and center.

[redqueen]

33. Who cares? So relatives are open to attack cause they're related to a candidate?

Are you seriously saying that you think these attacks on relatives are ok?

Now if there's some "there" there, some actual reason to go after them, that's one thing... but a freaking tattoo? REALLY?!

[TwilightGardener]

38. Is he a relative? Or the just the dude who impregnated the Governor's daughter?

They didn't have the shotgun wedding yet. And snickering at a tattoo is pretty tame, IMO. I won't trash the guy, nor Bristol--they are just being manipulated and marketed for political gain. But a few snarky remarks aren't that bad.

[Peacetrain]

44. This is what I am not getting people are not more upset about

is the Palins and McCains for using those two kids. Having a child while you are still in high school can be a pretty traumatic event. Then having the ghoul squad trot you out does not help.

I don't care if you are male of female. Sometimes you put ambition on the back burner for a year or two. This did not happen to the family while she was running for the veep. All of these things happened before and she and McCain had the opportunity to pass for the sake of the kids. Any normal person would have.

But this is what the republican party has become. Power ghouls.

[melody]

59. If they are being used to prop up the candidate, yes

The GOP were unmerciful with Carter's family.

[redqueen]

63. So you didn't put me on ignore, then?

:rofl:

:hi:

[greguganus]

102. dupe. (unless I'm on ignore) n/t

[greguganus]

103. People that are self-centered HAVE to see if someone is talking about them. n/t

[melody]

37. DEMS???

Clearly you know a lot more about Ruwh than we do. ;)

[depakid]

40. Reality check

We've been bending over backwards to be reasonable and have been getting our asses kicked for 15 years.

Would you like to continue that pattern for 15 more?

[redqueen]

46. We're not getting our asses kicked cause we don't attack uninvolved people enough.

Or do you think that's what we need to do to win votes?

[depakid]

50. I just look at what works

Call me amoral.

[redqueen]

54. So then you DO think that it's the mocking of uninvolved people that wins votes.

Well... okay then... if that's what you think.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

[depakid]

55. If Americans had mocked fundies and their lot in the 1980's

We wouldn't be having this conversation.

[redqueen]

58. Fundies who were trying to inject their fundieness into politics? SURE!

Mocking people who aren't? Not so much.

Nuance, see.

[depakid]

66. I'm too old to do nuance

in this respect.

You either want to win, given the rules of the game- or you don't.

That's the bottom line.

[redqueen]

70. We all want to win...

the problem is nobody can agree on the rules.

My "rules" say attacking uninvolved persons for no good reason = rush-like and counterproductive.

Your "rules" are obviously different... cause apparently you believe that attacking uninvolved people for silly reasons = more votes.

Like I said... agree to disagree.

[depakid]

72. No, you don't

The rules are what they are- not what you and I might wish them to be.

[redqueen]

74. THERE ARE NO RULES. The GOP uses dirty tricks... should we do that too?

I cannot fucking believe you just sat there and told me that I don't want to win.

What the fuck...

[melody]

53. Damned straight n/t

[LanternWaste]

90. Post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

Post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

[depakid]

111. You do recognize that things happen in sequence?

and that the fallacy involves relying on the sequence alone?

[LanternWaste]

113. I slso recognize cause and effect

I slso recognize cause and effect. And I see no direct causal link in this instance, only mere supposition; therefore-- post hoc ergo prompter hoc

[depakid]

114. Really?

Perhaps you could explain?

[LanternWaste]

123. I do not see a precise and absolute causal effect

Yeah, really. :eyes:

I do not see a precise and absolute causal effect between the loss in the last two elections and civility towards an opponent.

If you have absolute and precise peer-reviewed evidence that directly points towards civility being the mitigating factor in the last two elections, then I'd be happy to go over it and re-evaluate my position on this. Otherwise, post-hoc...

[Virginia Dare]

77. Yep, they've dished out enough, they can take some.....n/t

[Balderdash]

89. "They" aren't taking it

you're abusing a kid who has no political affiliation other than she's the kid
of a player. Leave the damn kids alone. Trashing children is not going to win
votes for Obama.

[Virginia Dare]

93. I'm not abusing anybody...

so you can just stop your hypocritical nannying. I think you've made it your full time job around here.

[Balderdash]

107. Until you asswipes get off

the kids and start going after the politicians, damn straight
I'm making it a crusade. I've spent too many years fighting
the right and their nastiness to see my party devolve into fucking
freepers. There is NO way to make going after these kids right.
Hopefully someday some of you will experience a little Karma.
Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch, IMHO of course.

[Virginia Dare]

108. OH THE DRAMA!!!

[Balderdash]

109. I've tried talking to you a couple

of times now and see that it's a clear waste of time.
I lose my temper and you sink even further into whatever
that nasty place is that allows you to think it's ok to
use children and not even for politics but just to make
fun of them and then say it's for politics sake. I could
care less what pictures you post that are supposed to
represent me, they don't reflect on me, they reflect on
you.

[Virginia Dare]

110. No, you've tried lecturing me a few times..

and I challenge you to find a post where I've done anything you've accused me of. I've seen many of your posts telling people to stop talking about it, yet you continually talk about it.

[Vinca]

35. I'm afraid since the young parents-to-be have been put out front and center

as props to reinforce Palin's far right, no-abortion-for-any-reason stance, they're fair game.

[Balderdash]

48. Everyones families have been front and center...

Obama said to leave the families out of it. So far I haven't heard
Bristol say a freaking word about anything political.

[redqueen]

52. Thanks...

I give up.

[jonnyblitz]

56. k&r. I COMPLETELY agree. GD:P has been completely

CRINGE-worthy since Palin was picked as the VP! There has been plenty of VALID criticism over her politics but this going after her kids for IRRELEVANT crap is fucking FREEPER-ESQUE.

[redqueen]

73. We're on the exact same wavelength on this one!

:hi:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

57. You are such a bitch....

Just kidding! You know (I hope) I always look for your posts... I agree with you - except I have one thing to say - those kids should NOT get married just to save Mommies face.

[redqueen]

60. Yeah they shouldn't... but they will...

they don't have enough experience to know better... and truly it's in their immediate best interests to do so. The whole situation is just sad.

Not NEARLY as sad as all the teenagers who are living in POVERTY and who ALSO have to deal with having a child so early in life... but still. At least Palin is willing to force them to have those kids too! Cause we don't have enough teen moms!

:hi:

[ShortnFiery]

62. No worries, there will always be plenty of "well intentioned" people such as yourself who

will gently remind us to focus on more pertinent issues. ;)

[QueenOfCalifornia]

95. It's not even

a close call when it comes to making decisions for women and their bodies.

:hi:

[confused08]

61. I couldn't agree more

and honestly, that is why I think that there is a huge difference between making comments about Cindy McCain, Todd Palin, Michelle Obama, or Jill Biden and making comments about the McCain, Palin, Obama or Biden children. I think this is applicable even when some of those children (like in the case of McCain and Biden) are adults. There is arguably an exception to this since Beau Biden is an elected official but I don't see the relevancy of that fact to the election at hand so I think even he should be protected from scorn.

I agree with Obama that overall the families should be left out of it, but i think this is even more applicable to children than spouses.

[redqueen]

64. True... even more applicable to children... and even though they're teens...

I remember what I was like at that age. Mabye I was just a weirdo, but I remember feeling pretty emotionally vulnerable, still.

[cwydro]

67. Thank you redqueen.

Taking cheap shots at teenagers is low class; that is what is trashy.

[olkaz]

69. Levi is an adult. /tiniest violin

Oh the humanity!

[redqueen]

71. Sorry... like I said upthread... I thought after seeing Palin act like such a bully

that maybe DU's "bully squad" would take a short break at least. ;)

[Virginia Dare]

79. No, we've got the bully pulpit and we're using it....n/t

[redqueen]

82. Sarah's bully act is turning off independents and moderates. (nt)

[Virginia Dare]

85. So what? None of us here are running for V.P....n/t

[redqueen]

87. Um...DUH! Like I already said more than once - I'm SO fucking sorry for saying jack SHIT about that

meanspirited rush-limbaugh-like nasty fucking thread!

Jesus.

Forgive the fuck out of me for thinking we'd see Sarah acting that way and NOT want to do our own imitation of the sarcasm mockery and hate schtick.


So done with this thread.

[Virginia Dare]

91. C'mon we're all on the same side!..

it's just not all of us are on the same page.

[greguganus]

104. I'm glad you are done with this thread! Now I can take you off ignore!

:rofl:

[confused08]

88. I agree but

has there been any statistics out on it? I can't tell whether to laugh at the woman or fear her... there seems to be almost no post-Palin polls out there that arent either mobbed by our side or by the "freepers"... I think we should find a poll which checks the views of moderate mainstream america on the pick

[Occam Bandage]

96. Because they're petty, vile jackasses.

And I don't mean Bristol and Levi.

[madrchsod]

100. ?........ i feel sorry for them

the "mother" throws the kids to the wolves to save her sorry fucking ass.


i thought mothers protected their children but i guess that does`t apply to her....

[melody]

105. I've emailed this to RQ privately but am posting it here for everyone else

I really stepped over the line today with a few of you and I'd like to apologize. As I said to RQ via email, I've been awake now for 72 hours with only a couple of hours of sleep due to waiting with my long-time neighbor for word on her son who is missing in Iraq. I took care of Cliff when he was a child and have known him since the day he came home from the hospital.

None of that makes up for my being an ass. I still hold all the opinions I expressed. I merely wish I had expressed them in a more appropriate fashion. My apologies especially to RedQueen.

If you pray, I'd appreciate your keeping Cliff, Jenny and their family in your thoughts.

Thanks,

melody

[blue_onyx]

106. I agree they shouldn't be attacked

I do think referencing them when talking about Palin's positions on abortion and sex education is ok though. The fact that Palin's daughter was allowed to make the choice to have the child but Palin doesn't feel other women should be allowed to have that same choice is relevant to the election. Bristol and Levi shouldn't be attacked personally for their choices but unfortunately for them, Palin chose to run for VP even though her family was going through some issues.

[intaglio]

112. Perhaps one reason is because the GOP are using them

for the opposite reason - as cutesy, cuddly, "Oh let's all worship the ideal Republican family,"

Unfortunately for the kids the only effective response is to highlight what a nauseating mess Palin has made of bringing up her children. Levi made clear on his website that he did NOT want to marry and there is no evidence that Bristol wanted to marry Levi; indeed it would be good to know at what point that engagement ring made it's first appearance.

Similarly it is clear that Sarah Palin is a liar and the Prima Facie evidence of that is the removal of Bristol from school because of "Mono"; not because the Palins wanted to keep Bristol away from Levi or later because Bristol was pregnant but the hoary old excuse of Mono. Mono or Mononucleosis sometimes called Glandular Fever and the "Kissing Disease" has been used for years to cover for indiscretions.

The shame of this whole thing is that it means picking on the kids because the kids have been used.

[K8-EEE]

116. Because in his website he sounds like a total asshole.

And a self-described fucking redneck.

[nichomachus]

117. It's not petty bullshit

This is the bedrock of the GOP rhetoric since God knows when -- teenage abstinence, working mothers not supervising their kids, teen pregnancy, blah blah blah.

If Palin wants to make restrictive rules for our kids under the guide of family values, then we have a right to ask how that has worked out in her family

By their fruits you shall know them.

She's a fraud and a phony and Bristol and the First Redneck are Exhibit A.

[mzmolly]

118. I agree. Though I'm thankful I haven't seen much of this

kind of thing.

[crimsonblue]

119. You don't get to cherry pick the pimping of your children

When you exploit your Down's baby and your military son, then we get to exploit your preggers daughter and her hick boyfriend.

[mdavies013]

120. THIS IS A DISTRACTION...I THINK MANUFACTURED BY KARL ROVE

I do not see any mainstream democrats going after them. Obama said that these are personal issues within the family and urged supporters to back off. I think it is designed to rile the anti-abortion crowd. The McSame campaign is cashing in on this and trying to outlife themselves.

[kurth_]

121. Leave the kids out of it

Not their fault their mother is such a nasty woman.

[mokawanis]

122. I'm tired of the threads AND the complaints about them

I'm getting damn tired of both. People say what they want to say, and a handful of posts on DU making fun of Palin's kids isn't going to impact the election.