Helen Bannerman's "Sambo" was about an Indian boy...

[Stern21]

But then again, racists can't be expected to get anything right.

It was later publications that turned "Sambo" into the nomenclature of today.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Yes, "Little Black Sambo" is from India. nt

[Life Long Dem]

9. Wrong thread. Thank you.

[Catch22Dem]

2. Yes, and IIRC, it's not particularly racist...

But the illustrations were. Isn't that correct?

[Stern21]

3. IIRC, the first illutrations were of an Indian boy. n/t

[Hieronymus]

58. Yes, Bannerman lived for years in India, and wrote the book for her kids.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_black_sambo

[Stern21]

61. I hope folks take the time to go to your link. n/t

[Honeycombe8]

5. Well, the restaurant chain "Sambo's" had pic of Af. American foreign boy, I think.

By that I mean he had some sort of head gear and earrings or something to indicate he was from Africa or some other foreign country. I don't recall the image being offensive, but I was a little kid, and white.

[Stern21]

6. And therein lies the rub.

Marketing trumps truth a\gain.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

7. No, the restaurant had depictions of an Indian boy.

[Honeycombe8]

11. Hmmm. Then why did Af. American leaders get the rest. to drop the image?

Is it possible that the image changed over time?

I DO recall when the sign in my town changed, and I asked mom about it. She said that the black people thought the image and the name were offensive, so the rest. changed those things.

[LWolf]

62. I don't know how they relate, or the time sequence,

but my memory tells me that the version of the children's book, "Little Black Sambo" is where the racist connotation came from. I always thought the restaurant picked their name from the book, and I remember both black and indian images.

The book I remember from childhood portrayed a black, not an indian, child.

I remember it well. There was a snafu between a school transfer which put me back in kindergarten for the year, when I'd spent September - Christmas in first grade. To sooth my insulted feelings, my K teacher allowed me to sit on a stool and read to the rest of the Ks during "nap" time. What did I read? Often, it was "Little Black Sambo." I didn't think of it as racist at the time. I didn't know anything about racism, or that black people were targets. While there weren't many black people in my neighborhood, and I don't remember black kids at school, my grandparents had black friends and I played with their kids, so I never knew any different until the first time I heard someone use the "n" word, and my family had to educate me about racism.

I was pleased when Sambo was resurrected in recent years with a restored, and more respected image. I thought he was clever and brave, to turn the tigers into butter instead of get eaten.

I also loved the restaurant. Kids love pancakes, of course. But later, when I was in High School, we could hang out there with our friends all night long, and all we needed was a dime each. The 10 cent never-ending cup of coffee gave us a place to gather without parents.

[Honeycombe8]

13. I checked it out. Yes, the image changed. Used to be DARK boy, then lightenened skin later.

I can remember the big image up on the restaurant's sign. The boy definitely looked foreign, but he was also definitely very dark and gave the impression of being at least part Af. American. Hence, the derogatory use of the term "Sambo" for Af. Americans, I guess.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Those pictures are from after the protests started.

nice try though. Why anyone is defending the sambo bullshit is beyond me.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. I'm not defending anything.

There is the issue of the restaurant and a separate issue of the "Sambo" perjorative. For all I know, the owners of Sambo's could have been racist. However, I find it more likely that some knuckledraggers mistook the title of Helen Bannerman's book and conflated it with their own racist ideologies and imageries.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. Yes you did.

"No, the restaurant had depictions of an Indian boy." - which was your attempt to falsify the post you were responding to.

You were defending the restaurant by claiming, inaccurately, that their decorations were of indian boys not african boys. Had you stated an accurate timeline: 'they were african boys until protests forced them to redesign their decorations, then they were indian boys', I would have had no problem with your post.

Others here, as well as you, seem to be confused about how the term Sambo, the book Little Black Sambo, and Sambo's Restaurant, intentionally or not, are all part and parcel of the white supremacist culture that was our mainstream culture until the civil rights protests of the 50's and the much maligned and more general protest movements of the 60's and 70's overthrew that culture. What was unremarkable then is now unthinkable and outrageous - for now. But...

We are in a counter-revolution culture war right now. Sarah Palin is the figurehead du jour of the counter-revolution. Their side knows full what they are doing and what they are fighting for, our side isn't even sure that there is a war going on.

We need to get a freaking clue. Calling Obama 'Sambo' is vile and unacceptable. I seem to recall one of our presidential candidates getting into some serious unpleasant shit over the phrase 'himey-town', remember that?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. If the earlier designs were different, I'll stand corrected.

[Warren Stupidity]

45. Wiki

Sambo's is a restaurant, formerly an American restaurant chain, started in 1957 by Sam Battistone and Newell Bohnett. Though the name was taken from portions of the names of its founders, the chain soon found itself associated with The Story of Little Black Sambo. Battistone and Bohnett capitalized on the coincidence by decorating the walls of the restaurants with scenes from the book, including a dark-skinned boy and tigers. By the early 1970s, the illustrations depicted a light-skinned boy wearing a jeweled Indian-style turban with the tigers.

[Gormy Cuss]

39. That's not the graphic that was in use at the Sambo's in my area

The boy was much darker skinned.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stern21]

10. Exactly.

The original story has been "evolved" to suit the racists that exist today.

The Palins are continuing their racism byproxy and w need to vent on every chance we get.

[Stern21]

63. I have no recollection as to what the deleted message contained

but I will state that it had no racial overtones and agreed that it contained reference to Bannerman's writing.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. By 1927 the illustrations were of negroes.

Little Black Sambo, despite the fact that it was originally about a Tamil child, became a fixture in our rejuvinated white supremacist culture, part and parcel of the complete undoing of reconstruction and the requisite cultural justifications for our de jure and de facto apartheid system, established from the 1880's to the early 1900s, a period of time referred to by historians as 'the nadir'.

[Stern21]

16. It depends on which publications you picked.

In that year, there were many publications of Bannerman's story.

However, the "watermelon boy" illustrations took over in this continent. Which really sux as it shows the racist attitudes prevelant in this country in such a near history.

[RC]

12. A link to the story.

http://www.sterlingtimes.co.uk/sambo.htm

[JoshDem]

14. In my little golden book Sambo was black

This goes back to the 1950s but as I recall "Little Black Sambo" was indeed a black African boy who turned the tigers into butter.

[TexasObserver]

17. Tigers are found in INDIA, not Africa, so your understanding is wrong.

Quick. Where in Africa are tigers found other than in a zoo?


Fun Tiger Factoid: They're a lot bigger than LIONS, and will kick a lion's ass one on one.

[Stern21]

18. THANK YOU! n/t

[JoshDem]

19. True--but Sambo was as black as can be in the story as was his Mom

[TexasObserver]

20. Yes. INDIANS. Black.

Even seen McCain's adopted daughter?

Skin color among Indians varies. Some are very dark.

[verges]

27. Are you even aware

that the discussion is about a comment Palin allegedly made in a restaraunt the day Obama secured the nomination?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6952478

[TexasObserver]

28. Yes, of course I'm aware. This is a discussion about the actual STORY.

We can have more than one discussion born of this event. This particular conversation is about the original story of Sambo and the Tiger, particularly, the country and culture from which it came.

[baldguy]

38. Children don't read footnotes.

They look at pictures.

[TexasObserver]

43. You're arguing with yourself. No one has constructed your straw man.

No one has suggested that the story's origin is the story that most today associate with it.

Which part of that do you still not understand?!

Is there some way I can say "we're talking about the story's origin" that you will absorb and understand?

[baldguy]

50. I did read all the posts, thank you.

What you refuse to understand is that when 3-5 yr old children are being read a story, they couldn't care less about cultural context of the story's origin - that the author was born in England, but lived most of her life in India, that the story was taken by Americans who illustrated it using their own ignorance & prejudices, and that the pictures don't actually represent the characters in the story - nor could they fully understand it without a long, patient, well-informed explanation by their tutor.

They look at the pictures. That's why the pictures are important.

[Stern21]

55. Another thank you.

The OP is a damning on overt racism.

[BumRushDaShow]

51. Exactly.

Those who ignore how the power structure in the U.S. took stories from other countries and proceeded to incorporate their gutteral racist beliefs into them do themselves a disservice of not doing the research.

Barbara Bader, a book critic, summarized the events.

All American children did not see the same book, however. Though the authorized Stokes edition sold well and never went out of print, a host of other versions quickly began to appear from mass-market publishers, from reprint houses, from small, outlying firms unconstrained by the mutual courtesies of the major publishers. A few are straight knock-offs of the book that Bannerman made, without her name on the title page; the majority were reillustrated -- with gross, degrading caricatures that set Sambo down on the old plantation or, with equal distortiveness, deposited him in Darkest Africa. Libraries stocked the Stokes edition, and a few others selectively. But overall the bootleg Sambos were much cheaper, more widely distributed, and vastly more numerous.12

More at http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/picaninny/

This of course joins other stories, films, TV series (including animated) that were twisted around into racial superiority pieces including King Kong, Tarzan, and Kimba the White Lion to name a few.

[verges]

65. Then why is it in GDP?

[Stern21]

21. Oh, another one who looks at the pics rather than reads the story.

yawn.

[JoshDem]

23. Read it 50 nyears ago

My only memory is how black the boy and his Mom were in the pictures and certain facial features.

[Stern21]

26. English major here and will vent against word vs. picture.

The pics were the choice of the (corporate) company that published the book.

The intentions were most likely very different.

[verges]

25. That's not the point.

Perception is EVERYTHING. Children being read a story aren't told the footnote: "Tiger's are only in India and China." No, in fact to a child, one jungle is pretty much the same as another. The story was packaged as "Little BLACK Sambo." The original intent was lost somewhere along the way. But all that is irrelevant. What was Palin's intent? What did it mean to her? I don't think she thought Obama was a Tamil.

[TexasObserver]

29. You've missed the point. We're talking about the ORIGIN of the story.

You are having your own conversation, in which only you are participating, about the modern or recent impact of such a story upon children in America. No one else is addressing that because no one else in the thread is confused about the topic - the ORIGIN of the story.

[verges]

66. Then perhaps you'd

better explain to me what the ORIGINS of the story has to do with the Presidential race. Because this IS in General Discussions: Presidential.

[Terran]

46. Tigers being found only in India...

does change the fact that I, too, had a copy of "Little Black Sambo" when I was a kid, and it was set in Africa, and the illustrations were strongly tinged with racism. This is probably the version that virtually all Americans who read the story had.

[TexasObserver]

48. The ORIGIN of the story is the point.

Your misunderstanding regarding its origins, and its basis in your childhood are typical, but irrelevant to the issue of the story's origin.

[Terran]

69. No, the origin of the story is not the "point".

The story's original setting in India, as stated in the OP, is merely a statement of fact. The "point", as it appears to me, is that this fact somehow makes Palin's alleged statement non-racist. The REAL point, which you have pig-headedly AVOIDED about 15 times in this thread, is that the story as SHE no doubt understood it, is about a black child, not an Indian child, which, if she indeed made the statement, makes her a racist. And you seem strangely intent on diverting everyone away from that issue.

[sammytko]

35. My oldest brother was born in 1946 and my parents had those.

I remember reading them in the 60s when I was born. They were nice green leather cover, if I remember correctly. I don't know what happened to them.

[The Stranger]

22. Despite Bannerman's book, in the U.S., it is a racist caricature of African-Americans.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qSfGvptL_TY

[TexasObserver]

30. The OP stated as much in the original post.

He wrote:

But then again, racists can't be expected to get anything right.

It was later publications that turned "Sambo" into the nomenclature of today.


That seems to make clear that the OP is noting the origin of the story being at variance with what has become its more modern usage, which is clearly a very racist connotation. I don't think anyone has suggested that the story has not become thought of a racist story, mainly because racists for decades have used "Sambo" as a derogatory term for black boys and men.

It's important to distinguish between the story, and the heinous term derived from it, a term which is not inherently tied to the story, but merely a contrivance for racism for decades of racists.

[Stern21]

56. God, and yet another thank you.

It's surprising to me that I would need so many thank yous in such a post here on DU.

[verges]

67. Actually. it was pretty clear to me

that he was talking about Palin's racism. Y'know that Obama (Sambo) isn't Indian. And the fact that this is in GD:P bears this out. Now, if the original poster would like to clarify, I'm willing to listen.

[MuseRider]

31. I had that book as a child.

Golden Book?

I remember it as an Indian boy chased by a Bengal tiger (Bengal tigers are found in India, Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Western Burma, and possibly southeastern Tibet and Yunnan). Whatever became of it to change the meaning I don't know. Still, if it offends we are best off not using it. Respect for others. That should not be a problem but somehow it is.

[Tansy_Gold]

47. I had it too, the Little Golden Book version

I always felt sorry for the tigers. . . . .

As a small child I don't think I attached any racial significance to either the book or the child's name, but as an adult I certainly was aware that the name had become a pejorative.

[noel711]

32. And this info changes the derisive term...how?

A racial slur is a racial slur,

no matter how it is portrayed.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. It is an illustration of how totally clueless we are about what is going on.

We can't even agree that Palin calling Obama Sambo is vile racism. Instead we have to argue over was the book racist if its author was only referring to little black tamil-indian boys, regardless of the place that now awful book held in our pre-60's culture?

We wrap ourselves around a barbed wire fence of nuanced bullshit and lose sight of the actual issue.

[RC]

37. It is called knowledge or education.

That is the reason Liberals govern better than Conservatives.
We have a better grasp of reality because we expose ourselves to more view points. That is what is happening here.

[Gormy Cuss]

40. Yes, and with that knowledge the history of Bannerman' " Sambo" is irrelevant

to the usage of the term by a 21st century governor. Anything benign about the term "Sambo" was left behind long, long ago.

[RC]

54. Racism is based in ignorance and lack of respect.

So how can not knowing about this book and its history be good? It should cause people to think and that is usually a good thing.
The original story had nothing to do with racism. Ignorance and bigotry in this country changed that. We need to deal with that mind-set and "Little Black Sambo" story can be a start for some people to start questioning other more insidious racisms.

[Gormy Cuss]

60. The book is only part of the history.

To tell the history of the term Sambo as a slur requires more than just defending Bannerman's original story. 'Sambo' has a history independent of her story. Furthermore we aren't the only country where it's a derogatory term -- it's a slur in the UK too,though with a somewhat different target.

It's not a matter of whether knowing the history of the book is good --it's a matter of whether saying it started out as a benign children's story has any relevance to the purported use by a current politician, since politics is a profession where success is found in part by measured use of language. Macaca moments can derail careers.

[Stern21]

64. As in a certain name for a UK Jam

Which I will remain nameless for the moment.

[Morning Dew]

42. This incident is evidence . . .

Of Palin's support for Obama in the days before she was tapped for the VP slot.


Secessionist Sarah does nuance !

Here's the story:

In the tale, an Presidential candidate named Obama prevails over a group of hungry "tigers" ( MarxistLaborites, Welfare Queens, Illegal Aliens and Hummaseckshuals).

The candidate has to give his colorful new clothes (body), shoes (mind), and umbrella (soul) to four "tigers" so they will not eat him. Obama recovers the clothes when the jealous, conceited "tigers" chase each other around a tree until they are reduced to a pool of delicious TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH.

[RC]

36. Not necessarily. Like maybe when used in context it is not.

[Turbineguy]

44. I think I get it.

It's actually something like this: "So that clever young man in the story, you know, the one who turned the tiger into butter, beat the bitch!"

Only it isn't like that.

It's like the WC Fields skit where "a icicle" becomes "someone who listens in" because another word for icicle is "eavesdropper".

[Forkboy]

49. Ah, those dark skinned people all look alike anyways.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

52. The question is not what a word means, but what it means to the speaker

I STILL don't know exactly what the heck Macacca means, but I'm confident George Allen was looking for a synonym for "up-standing American."

A snarky racist who thinks she's cute and clever is exactly the sort of person who would use a cutesy term like "sambo."

And a red neck town in an all white area is exactly where such a person would say it.

I don't know if she said it, but it has a much greater ring of credibility than the McCain "C**t... Trollop" thing.

[CakeGrrl]

53. Whatever it's true origin, there's no excuse for the alleged context in which it was used

except as a snarky racist slur.

I challenge you to go up to any black person today, refer to them as "Sambo" and see what kind of response you receive.

[Stern21]

57. Completely agree.

But, Bannerman's story has been maligned by racists and I like to point out where it has.

[Stern21]

59. You are absolutely correct.

The original story is of an Indian triumphing over odds and the story's mythos has evolved into a strange bastardization that has nothing to do with Black people in the real world.

[mamalone]

68. That is my understanding as well...

My grandmother had the story book and I loved it as a child. In her copy of the book the child Sambo was most definitely Indian and not African. I distinctly remember because my aunt (her daughter) had served in India as a nurse during WWII, and reading the book together was a frequent springboard for conversations about Indian culture... and the fact that the people weren't actually "black" but rather brown.

Obviously when (and if) Palin used the term she meant it in a racist way. By now the term is almost exclusively racist, but when I was a child it was a simple sweet story about a brave smart little boy.

[chascarrillo]

70. So?