Why are there so many here who want us to leave Palin alone?

[liberal N proud]

She is applying for a job for which we are the employer. We are talking about the person who has the possibility of becoming our President. Scrutiny is in order.

Tell me one job you can apply for and never have to go to an interview or never have to ask questions?

This person was basically unknown to all of America a little more than a week ago, now she is the poster girl for the GOP. But they will fall for anything in unison. Nothing will ever change that idiotic phenomenon.

The media was asking questions. Was being the operative word until McCain's handlers accused them of being sexist. The media lay down like a whipped dog. So she get a free pass?

In less than a week enough has been dug up on this person to derail most candidates. The McCain campaign just ignores this, the media can't talk about it and she isn't talking. In fact the media has started towing the line and proclaiming her a star with the audience.

So what are we to do? Let this much less than qualified person assume a crucial role in American politics?

We could sit here all day and post positive threads about Obama and Biden while the media and the GOP do the same with McCain and his new bride. Nothing would ever get said to counter those glowing lies they will provide to define Palin.

One of the things people here are good at and have done for the 4 years that I have been a member is dig up the truth. Time and time again, the members of this site have exposed the things that the media would not talk about. That should not stop now, not ever.

So who are these detractors who post on nearly every thread that we shouldn't focus on Palin's many issues?

Scrutiny is in order and necessary to insure we don't have another bu$h.

Rant off:rant:

[FreakinDJ]

1. "This War is God given and God Approved"

Palin's words in her speech needs to be exploited to it's fullest extent

[Clear Blue Sky]

28. Don't leave her alone, but

most of our energy should be directed toward the guy on the top of the ticket.

[POAS]

45. Pointing out the weaknesses

of Palin IS pointing out the bad judgment of McCain.

Believe it of not there are those on the far religious right that would pray for a McCain health issue so Palin would step in to run the country.

[Paladin]

62. The Guy At The Top Of The Ticket Has Lost Control Of His Campaign

Little Ms. Mooseburger has highjacked the Republican side for the time being. Certainly, Obama and (to a lesser degree) Biden need to stay above the fray and treat Palin with respect. But ignoring her at this point, and letting her get away with the bullshit she's spewing, is just foolhardy---she's a truly dangerous force to be reckoned with.

[Froward69]

89. We are DU

yes we should focus on BOTH of them... it is our duty to undermine the gop any way possible. as we can see mcSame as bush is stepping aside like she will be the one on the top of the ballot. yet will not answer any real questions. we need to keep the pressure on at all times. on both of them. Obama is above this sort of thing, we are in the trenches. I have no problem doing the dirty work for Obama/Biden.
:evilgrin:

[totodeinhere]

122. But Obama has also asked his supporters to refrain from these tactics.

And that is good enough for me. I will respect his wishes and stick to criticizing Palin on the issues and leave the other stuff alone.

And speaking from a strictly political point of view, it might be wise to lay off from the personal attacks. The pukes are going to try to elicit sympathy for Palin, so we should strive to avoid giving them this talking point.

[Froward69]

127. true

I am sticking with her "held on her leash" in not talking to reporters. her new jet (she can't use), queen of earmarks.
truth...
that stuff.

[Waiting For Everyman]

137. "there's no crying in baseball"

Lots of voters will only see grocery store tabloids, and no news.

[breadandwine]

139. Read this for info and links on Palin's choice of a hospital for Trig Palin ---

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6968231

Humor aside, all that info there is sourced with links. Palin's choice of which hospital and the details ABOUT that choice are all info we're not supposed to see. And if anyone is still confused, read post 22 there near the top of the thread, which summarizes. But remember, Palin's personal life is very personal and PRIVATE and we're not supposed to know...... We're all supposed to shut up.......

[moriah]

2. Attack Palin on her record.

There's so much there that I've made up about 5 different bumper stickers already.

I'm seriously considering buying two domains: VotesSpeakLouderThanWords.com and VetoesSpeakLouderThanWords.com and selling stickers like in my siggy here.

But I don't know if anyone would buy them.

[L. Coyote]

69. Stare at the 17-year-old navel. You are getting sleepy, .....

Indeed. The focus is what matters!

I thought we needed only one bumper sticker: "Dec. 12, 2000 - $1.42"

After Palin, I think we need another: "InSane for McSame"

That one for all the hypnotized true believers who are blind and beyond redemption this cycle.
And, if Palin is not brought into true focus FAST, there will be a lot more McNuts.

[wickerwoman]

138. Her supporters don't care about her record...

they'd have to read it and it has a lot of big words and not many pictures. Besides, kindly Reverand Soandso said she's got their best interests at heart so it must be true.

The Republican base votes for the bright, shiny object that they're told to vote for. The only way to neutralize her impact on the campaign is to expose her for the mean hypocrite that she is in such an obvious way that even the dimmest of them can't defend her to their neighbors any more.

We've spent eight years trying to argue with the neo-cons on the issues. We should face the fact that being right and trusting the voters to understand that we are right isn't getting us anywhere.

[rug]

3. Did your last employer ask about your daughter's pregnancy?

[FreakinDJ]

4. If you apply to be an expert on the matter - he better ask

that or he is a corrupt POS

[rug]

8. Did he ask if your Down syndrome baby is yours?

If he did he's a POS.

[WinkyDink]

17. Do you think the Republicans would NOT be asking this of Edwards right now?

[rug]

23. Of course they would. When did you become a Republican?

You don't have to become a scumbag to beat a scumbag.

[WinkyDink]

132. I was merely pointing out the lack of principle of the opposition. They do tempt one to rub their

noses in the same dirt.

[FreakinDJ]

22. OK Rug - I'll play

Yes some things should be "off limits" as they have already proven to be a disaster for the Democrats in waiting.

Others like "Given your 17 yr old daughter is pregnant, most likely never going to attend college because of it, are you sure the Abstinence Only Education policies of the past Bush Administration are the best for America's young people?

[rug]

27. Actually, I'd like to see some ads on teen parents who aren't children of wealthy Republicans.

The reality of teen pregnancy is a lot more devastaing than the blather on Brisol and whoever the fuck her boyfriend is.

[FreakinDJ]

36. I'm sure there is some Well Documented Evidence to support

the problems of Teen-pregnancy too

Juvenal Criminality of the children,
Incidence of Child Abuse,
Single Parent Families,

All very credible US Health and Human Services numbers too.

Unlike the Sarah's baby rumor some questions (we already know the answer to) have very well documented proof to back up our conclusions

[Honeycombe8]

37. People would ask behind the scenes if you presented a baby, but people saw that you were not

pregnant.

That's the issue, I believe.

Is she honest or dishonest? That's a valid question. But I wouldn't go there about the baby unless there were proof positive that she WASN'T pregnant during the last trimester.

[liberal N proud]

10. They are the ones that paraded that out on stage

[rug]

14. Four days after the giddy fetusfest began.

[liberal N proud]

52. But they made a big issue about CHOICE

Saying it was Bristol's "choice" The same people will if given the chance take the "choice" away from all other American women.

That makes it relevant.

[WinkyDink]

15. If I were going to write company policy about pregnancy terminations, the boss had better.

[rug]

18. And you'd spend the rest of your tenure in court.

[BlueJazz]

29. My last employer didn't cut funds that would have helped...

...Teenage Pregnant Mothers.
Palin did. :) :)

[rug]

42. Her daughter doesn't need those funds, now does she?

Maybe the focus should be on the cut programs instead.

[BlueJazz]

50. You're right..I can't argue with what you say....but I think this "Palin Bashing"...

...will subside in a few days and we'll get back to the Main Enemy...McCain/Republicans.

[Honeycombe8]

34. I'll play, too. Feminist woman here. Is MY job as important as the leader of the free world?

MMMMM.....nope, I don't think so.

Am I running for election, submitting myself to a vetting process and asking millions of people to vote for me? Mmmmmmmm....that's a nope, too.

Am I asking the citizens of our country to risk everything they have, and everything they will ever have, on ME, should I become the President? Mmmmmm.....no, I don't think so.

The people of the country decide what's important in their leaders. The leaders don't decide. Anyone who signs up to run for election for one of the most powerful and influential jobs in the world understands that, and understands that s/he may have to answer a few more questions than, say, a waitress.

Capiche? Sure you do.

[rug]

47. That's true. And the stupider the quesions the better she looks.

[Honeycombe8]

68. "Stupid" is in the eyes of the beholder. Valid to ask questions about possible dishonesty. nt

[The Stranger]

43. If I were to determine teen pregnancy policy for my employer, you bet your fucking ass he did.

[rug]

48. What?

[The Stranger]

51. I took your analogy and turned it around.

In your analogy:

Palin is the prospective employee.
The American people are the prospective employer.

You asked whether a typical employer would ask a typical employee about his/her teenage child being pregnant.

But the false premise in your question is that this is a typical employee and a typical employer. Usually, an employer doesn't ask about his/her employee's teenage child's being pregnant because the scope of the employment has nothing to do with it. The employee does something else entirely for the employer.

But that is clearly not the case here, and that is why your question and its premise are eviscerated.

The fact is that this "employee" will determine national policy with regard to the very question being asked. This "employee" will determine how pregnant teens -- like her own -- are going to be treated.

So you bet your fucking ass that a question like that is going to be asked, would be asked, and should be asked.

[adamuu]

56. There are plenty of interview questions that are not "personal". Such as

After you said 'Thanks But No Thanks' to the infamous bridge to nowhere, what did you do with the money the federal government had already contributed to the cause?

This is a very professional question, and is of interest to the people
Its not a personal or family question.

[kestrel91316]

86. I haven't concerned myself with pregnancies since Day 2 (I will admit

to indulging in a little gossipmongering for cheap thrills at the beginning) but now I am all about her very dangerous religious views and probable racism. And I still get called out for it and called stupid.

She will be one fragile old hearbeat away from the presidency, so we'd better look just as close at her as we do at McSame.

[babythunder]

87. Not at my job

but I'm pretty sure if I applied for a job at Family Values Research Council my unwed teen daughter's pregnancy would probably be an issue.

[DailyGrind51]

99. I didn't know I had a daughter, and you say she is pregnant?

Holy crap, that is a lot to deal with, I think I will have to take my medication and lay down for awhile to deal with this information.

[Retrograde]

136. Does that job require a security clearance?

As a former hiring manager (now happily retired), I had to know what were legal questions to ask and what weren't. Questions about marital status, children, and pregnancies are right out. Questions about education, ability to perform the job in question, and job-related experience are allowable.

However, people applying for jobs that require security clearances get subjected to a lot of scrutiny, and the higher the clearance, the more personal details the clearing agent goes into. The rationale is that they want to find any secrets that could be used to blackmail you or influence your decisions. Anything's fair game.

I think asking whether her daughter's pregnancy alters her views on sex education is a valid question, especially since she made a show of the poor kids.

[laststeamtrain]

5. Short answer: 'Cause they're 'Reagan Democrat' weenies. n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

6. because they are afraid of their own shadows, and have the spine

of your typical congresscritter.
One hint of weakness, and the GOP pounces. Yet, each time we stand up to them, we succeed. WHY IS THAT LESSON SO HARD TO LEARN, or REMEMBER?

[Honeycombe8]

7. Who said to leave Palin alone? Name some names. nt

[liberal N proud]

24. It is a trend I have been noticing in thread the last two days

It would take a few hours to dig up each thread and I quite frankly am not up to it today.

My point is there are people here wanting to go soft on Palin. Just observations and asking the questions.

Some of it can be found right in this thread

[moriah]

63. I don't want to be soft on her, I want to expose her record.

She cut funding for a service that counseled pregnant women and assisted with adoption placement.

She refused to help expand two shelters -- one for pregnant teens, another for the homeless.

She cut funding for energy research at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks.

She cut an amazing number of programs for seniors.

She refused to fund countless educational programs, from chalkboards, desks, and fire alarms to computer labs and libraries.

She refused to help fund and expand three drug rehabilitation centers in 2008 alone.

She refused to fund the WIC program.

She refused to fund programs to prevent kids from dropping out of school.

She cut funding for Special Olympics Alaska -- great way to advocate for kids with special needs, isn't it?

It is literally impossible to count how many public safety issues she neglected in her attempts to cut "wasteful spending" -- fire and police departments, overflowing sewers, ambulances and hospitals.

But $25,000,000 was just fine to spend on the planning and design of a sports arena for the University of Alaska at Anchorage -- that's not even counting the cost to build the thing!

[Honeycombe8]

71. I see. Gotcha. It's more about WHAT is being asked, looks like (in this thread).

I say...leave the children alone, unless there is PROOF of dishonesty on Palin's part. Otherwise, everything's on the table, as they say.

[Vinca]

9. Attack Palin on everything. If she survives unscathed,

there is a very good chance they will win. They are actively and obviously courting the "dumb people" vote and if they can get them out because Sara likes mooseburgers, they will probably win. The Republicans have created their own "celebrity." Our country is at stake here and I'm not only willing to step on toes, I'll hit 'em with a mallet.

[GumboYaYa]

11. "Leave her alone" is too strong, but certainly don't focus on her.

The Republicans want us to focus on her experience or lack thereof. They will then try to equate her with Obama and the whole election devolves into a war of the biting sound bytes. The Repubs are good at that and they stand a chance in that fight.

Let the media vet Palin, but we as a party need to go straight at John McCain. We need to focus on their top guy and the fact that he has no ideas. Don't let the election become a war of the cults of personality. We need to stay laser focused on the issues. IT IS THE ECONOMY STUPID!!!!!

[WinkyDink]

12. As if BIDEN will get no scrutiny, remarks, sarcasm, and mockery from THEM! I say: CUT the BEE-YOTCH!

She's a hate-filled, lying, conceited (let's NOT pretend otherwise!), smug, vicious, greedy, corrupt (jet-plane kick-backs, anyone?), bellicose, hypocritical, IGNORANT ( "Under God" and the Founding Fathers), TREASONOUS (AIP), sarcastic, POSSIBLE VICE-PRESIDENT!!

[Life Long Dem]

13. Your playing into Rove's hands. by doing so.

[JoshDem]

19. I agree LLD

If there is nothing important there, what gets all the publicity is the mom of five defending herself against the "radical left blogs" such as Daily Kos and DU.

Focus should be on issues.

[WinkyDink]

20. Who is Sambo?

[liberal N proud]

53. Are we not capable of focusing on both her and Gramps?

[Life Long Dem]

58. Are you?

[liberal N proud]

64. Posts from the last 48 hours

14 - Related directly to McCain
53 - Related directly to Palin
6 - responding to polls
41 - On a myriad of other issues.

This AM was a little heave on Palin but, Yeah, I can focus on many things at once. I do it all the time at work managing many projects.

[Marsala]

124. Rove is probably banging his head on a table

at the stupidity of the McCain campaign. He did not like the pick of Palin, I guarantee it. If McCain loses, Rove will be the first to call the campaign on its utter incompetence, though possibly only behind closed doors.

[Vinnie From Indy]

16. Palin is a RED HERRING

She was chosen precisely to be a target of attacks. It's why she is the VP candidate.

Thankfully, the Obama campaign and many Dems/Liberals are not taking the bait. They remain focused on marrying Bush to McCain and talking about issues that will sway the undecideds. In short, every minute Palin is discussed by Liberals and the media is one LESS minute that the historic disaster of the GOP's last eight years is discussed. Discussing Sarah Palin is EXACTLY what Karl Rove wants you and the rest of the country to do.

[grannylib]

21. I think anything but the kid's pregnancy is fair game in her presence

and face to face. Let the press and the public and other candidates ask her tough questions on everything, particularly the issues. And yes, grill the hell outta her on her religion and her pastor and her six colleges and all that shit.
BUT...in speeches, soundbites, etc...IGNORE HER if she's not present (and hey, even if she is...they ignored Kucinich, and look how far he got). Go after McLame like flies on shit. But IGNORE HER. She doesn't deserve the office she's seeking, she's grossly unqualified, and the best way to marginalize her is to IGNORE HER. If asked about her when she's not present, a non-committal answer, given with a wry smile, is all that's needed.
IGNORE HER. Make her exactly what she deserves to be - NOTHING.

[Guava Jelly]

25. The media seem to be doing their jobs for a change

So we should keep our eyes on the prize.
Besides, I have come to the conclusion that to the uninformed it makes us sound petty and angry. It turns them off

[KittyWampus]

26. because it's turned into an obsession. DU is filled with hypocrites who slam Americans

for always being distracted by the latest shiny object.

Palin was MEANT as a distraction. She's a hunk of red meat to the Culture War crowd.

You and the rest of the DU'ers who are unable to pull yourselves away from talking about her non-stop are suffocating every other topic.

McCain is who we have to beat. MCCAIN.

Obama, Biden, Hillary. They are all ignoring Palin.

All YOU do is feed her bullshit energy.

Your a dog salivating at Rove's bell.

[WinkyDink]

32. Here's what ya do: START A THREAD ON THE TOPIC OF YOUR CHOICE.

Stop whining.

[BlueJazz]

41. Good Post....cryingshame.

:)

[apocalypsehow]

111. Excellent post, and spot-on. n/t.

[TexasObserver]

30. Following every possible Palin story is a good project for us.

The real vetting takes place in the blogosphere.

Those who oppose our efforts come in a variety of scolds, but all share one thing in common: THEY'RE WRONG about this.

[apocalypsehow]

112. Yeah, you're just a regular internet Woodward & Bernstein, ain't yah?

:eyes:

[symbolman]

31. RIGHT ON

I Keep telling the naysayers that we can SLAM BOTH Palin, and uh..ummm.. you know.. that other guy..uh.. Mc.. McBOMB Bomb! Yeah, that's the ticket! :)

HAMMER them CONSTANTLY, Every Detail, cross reference.. my site Takebackthemedia.com on one occasion alone (and with DU'rs SLAMMING CNN) Forced CNN to put BACK over 750 words they'd CENSORED from a Hans Blix pre-"war" Report..

WE DO force them to DO their jobs, either by making them look TOO Pathetic, or by letting the lazy asses use OUR Research. They can no longer afford, and could NEVER afford what this site once Offered, a HUGE Research Lad, Think Tank, etc.

Be PROUD Du'rs you Make a Hell of a difference, sometimes in ways you don't even know.

Don't STOP NOW, it's just Getting GOOD :)

Good Post, THANKS, getting sick of doing what Rove wants, and being led by Liberals who "think" they've got the guy "figured out", when here and there, they clearly DON'T. (and I only say that I may know the guy a little better than most, I spent a Year researching the Plame affair, AND Rove's History, made a sort of Film about it, called "Rove's War")

[L0oniX]

94. You should fix your website "data base error"

[spotbird]

33. The Republicans want to refocus the attention back

to McCain.

[jonnyblitz]

35. NO, many of us said leave her children alone, attack her

whacky right wing political reviews. For example, who cares if her daughter's 17 year old bf has a tattoo of her name on his ring finger. Many were obsessing and freaking out over THAT sort of thing like a bunch of prissy fundie freepers.

[liberal N proud]

39. I would agree with you about leaving the kids alone

And I don't give a crap if all of them have tattoos. That is their pain gone.

What is relevant about the Bristol thing is how they paraded her out and proclaimed it was HER choice to have the baby. Great, good for her and the baby.

BUT, if she ever manages to reach the office of President or VP for that matter. she wants to take that choice away from the rest of American women. That is a debate they started.

[babythunder]

88. People were suggesting that we not

even look into whether this woman has racist attitudes and if she had an extra-martial affair

[Douglas Carpenter]

38. I think there is a legitimate strategic question and I am not sure of the answer

On one hand there is the reality that an un-vetted, dangerously unqualified and profoundly ignorant person who is a fringe right-wing extremist - way to the right of Dick Cheney or George W, Bush - now has the potential to end up as Commander and Chief of the world's only super power and the leader of the free world. Besides the sure danger of this to America and the whole world, this certainly should cast doubt, not only on the ticket itself but the judgment and claimed patriotism of the man who made one of the most unpatriotic and recklessly irresponsible but calculated domestic political decisions in American history and was callously willing to endanger his own country and the whole world for a cynical political gimmick.

On the other hand there are those who feel, and perhaps they have a point, that this distracts from concentrating on the head of the ticket, John McCain - the candidate that most people will either vote for or against.

[liberal N proud]

44. And normally that would be OK but McCain is not healthy

He has a history of skin cancer and his age is working against him. We need to make sure that the person who is backing him up is qualified to do the job. Because, God forbid, if McCain does manage to become President, we can be sure that his VP will become President.

[Douglas Carpenter]

54. I certainly agree with you point

And strategically speaking IF the reality of who Palin is and what she stands for can truly come to light - and IF the reality of just how reckless John McCain was in choosing her can truly come to light - this would be a HUGE blow against them and even has the potential to completely sink his candidacy.

On the other hand, IF this does NOT come to light in such away that the de-politicized majority learns about it - there is a danger of further reinvigorating the culture war and playing into their hands and appearing as the the out-of-touch elitist that they love to attack. There is no doubt but what the McCain campaign is trying to play the old Republican politics of cultural warfare against the out-of-touch elitist.

[liberal N proud]

55. Agreed

While we are attacking the many issues with Palin we also need to continue to help the Obama campaign push the issues.

It's the economy stupid.

[roseBudd]

40. We should focus on 3 issues, abstinence only sex ed, foreign policy, ties to Radical Seccession

movement, & Alaska's welfare status as being supported by the lower 48

[OHdem10]

46. Obama is running against McCain not Palin. The Democrats

have assisted her by keeping her in the news. The main thing I have
said is Avoid personal attacks especially against kids. Her record, etc
is fair game.

Begala says "go after the organ player not the monkey."
McCain not Palin.

[Lars39]

49. Did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6961100

[stillcool]

57. I can't figure it out..

We get an unknown VP pick, dropped on us like a bomb, and we are supposed to accept the image? I love how people talk about sticking to the issues. Lying, cheating and stealing seem like 'issues' to me. While searching for this persons stated policy positions I tend to get tangled up in a morass of the Harper Valley PTA.

[Life Long Dem]

59. And why are there so many who don't care about going overboard?

[Wapsie B]

This is the second most powerful position in government.

She needs to be run through the grist mill on everything. My god, before a player is drafted in the NFL they're run through a myriad of tests, physical and psychological. The job of Vice President of the United States should require no less. Hell, if you work in a hamburger stand there's an interview process.

[pampango]

60. I, for one, don't want anybody to leave Palin alone (though she is running for vice-president

not president). Her political experience and rw views should be criticized long and loud.

I only take issue with the posts that judge her performance as wife and mother or deal with who is the mother or father of whom or what her children have done.

If independent voters ever develop any sympathy for her due to "personal attacks" or simply don't care that much because they vote based on the presidential candidate not the VP, we will probably blame the MSM for overplaying our focus on Palin and ignoring McCain's many weaknesses.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

61. Some posters would like to see McSame/Palin win. nt

[bigwillq]

65. It all depends on what we attack her for.

I feel that her record, her ideology and what she may do if she becomes VP are all fair game.
Her not talking to the press is also fair but somehow I feel the GOPuke will turn that against the media, and against us.

I don't think all these personal issues, i.e. her daughter's pregnancy and how many colleges she went to, is very important or prevalent.

[slackmaster]

66. We certainly should not leave her alone, but we should get away from the silly tabloid gossip

Focus on real issues like her documented positions on the environment, energy, education, and her total lack of record on foreign policy.

[TexasObserver]

70. Why don't you let us worry about which issues we think are important?

And you can worry about those you think are important.

Start a topic you think is "worthy" of your time, and leave us to our own discussions, please. It's annoying having scolds. Do you really think the world needs you to nanny it?

[slackmaster]

72. Because I am concerned about the image gossip-mongering conveys about our party

It's not just about you.

[TexasObserver]

74. CONcerned is right. Give it a rest.

We're going to discuss these matters. If you choose to label it gossip, well that's you, again, isn't it? Posters like you constantly try to whistle the board and make it conform to your image of what is appropriate. Take a hike.

[slackmaster]

75. Have fun making a complete fool of yourself

:hi:

[TexasObserver]

76. And there's the concession speech.

Please hurry off to admonish posters of what is and is not productive. As I'm sure you're aware, there are many here who won't know what to post about if you don't tell them.

[slackmaster]

77. If you don't like what I write, feel free to respond, ignore, or alert

I intend to continue calling bullshit when I see it.

[TexasObserver]

78. I thought you said you were leaving.

[slackmaster]

80. Where did I say I was leaving?

Don't tell me you're just making stuff up now.

[Paladin]

104. Slack, Your Constant Harping On The Treatment Of Palin Is Getting Dangerously Close...

...to shilling on her behalf.

Palin is a genuinely dangerous political force, and she's already demonstrated that she intends to use the lowest tactics possible in this campaign. There's a steady drumbeat here at DU, the same tiresome "We're Democrats, We Play Fair And Dare Not Descend To The Level Of The Republicans" wimp-out philosophy that has cost us elections in the past. Certainly Obama and Biden are playing it smart by treating Palin with respect---but the rest of us shouldn't be bound by such constraints. The stakes are too high this time around.....

[totodeinhere]

109. Not only is Obama treating Palin with respect, he is asking his supporters to do that same.

That's good enough for me. I will follow Obama's advice and I will stick to criticizing her on the issues, and I will refrain form the sleaze.

[slackmaster]

141. I agree that Palin is dangerous

We need to fight her by using things that she has actually said and done. Things that can be proved.

There's a steady drumbeat here at DU, the same tiresome "We're Democrats, We Play Fair And Dare Not Descend To The Level Of The Republicans" wimp-out philosophy that has cost us elections in the past.

My friend, this tabloid gossip nonsense is BELOW the level of the Republicans. It just makes us look bad.

[L0oniX]

95. I say that if she kicks her dog we should pounce on it.

:evilgrin:

[YvonneCa]

100. Absolutely. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

67. Here is an odd point...

On this thread, those who are saying the children are off limits are the only ones talking about, and in fact naming specifically, the children involved. They are targeting the kids not those who go after Palin. The one poster here most 'upset' is the first in the thread to use a child's name. So, gee, who's doing the using?

[alwysdrunk]

73. Because you are happily falling for the trap

"Smearing" a poor little working mother trying to do what's right for her country.

^That's what they will say when people harp on unprovable stories (like the sambo one which is obvious horeshit) instead of talking about McCain's policies which are almost eaxctly the same as Bush's. It really is unbelievable to me how people are gleefully doing just what the GOP wants. I really hope this is a DU thing and doesn't spread much further.

[YvonneCa]

101. And it was successful in 2004. Not this time. n/t

[ProgressiveEconomist]

79. Because she's a distraction, designed to draw Democrats away from the McCain=Dubya theme

of a winning campaign that Obama mapped out and has followed even from before the Republicans had settled on a particular clone of Dubya on policy issues.

IMO Palin is "bait" tossed out by the Rove students who've taken over McCain's campaign. Democrats who swallow the bait attack Palin on "experience", "qualifications", "ideology"--and all the other non-policy "issues" the Rs are pushing--simply empower the Rs to derail Obama's issues-based campaign.

Whenever Democrats point a finger at Palin on something other than a policy issue, there may be three fingers pointing back at Obama for Rs to exploit.

In particular, IMO, whenever Democrats attack Palin on "experience", they invite no-win comparisons of Palin's experience with Obama's. As soon as Democrats start playing that game, they have lost it, no matter how surreal the Rs' arguments for Palin, and no matter how sound Democrats' arguments for Obama.

But if Democrats insist that Mccain-Bush policy positions on taxes, energy, healthcare, foreclosures, education, job training, etc. be compaired FAIRLY with Obama's, with all republican lies fact-checked and exposed, Democrats will with the White House in November.

[YvonneCa]

102. I agree. n/t

[misterconcept]

81. Why are Democrats Afraid to Speak the Truth?

The Democratic campaign enjoyed a spectacular and spirited convention climaxed by a phenomenal speech by Senator Obama. The McCain campaign followed with a phenom of its own with the addition of Governor Sarah Palin to the ticket. Prior to that spontaneous decision, John McCain was experiencing difficulty attracting an audience. In fact, with the prearranged agenda including Bush and Cheney, they would likely had difficulty filling the convention hall. This situation was remedied by the creation of the John McCain traveling burlesque show. Hopefully, the same people who support Sarah Palin are those who supported Sanjaya right up until it was time to declare him an American Idol. While the Republican propaganda machine is frantically fabricating a history for Palin, scrambling like canaries in a cage startled by the appearance of a cat, Barack Obama himself appears tired, bored, deflated, and even defeated. It's time for the Democratic Party to employ a novel strategy in the political arena. It's time to tell the truth.

It is a foregone conclusion that multi-national corporate interests own the federal government lock, stock, and barrel, with Big Oil as the majority shareholder. George Bush is a president with no leverage over these entities in fact; he invited them to the party. When Bush proclaims, "we must protect American interests abroad," it is these corporate interests to which he refers. The lobbyists who represent these interests have written any and all legislation passed within the last eight years. The Republican hierarchy has embedded within it, individuals in key positions who steer all government policies to favor these groups. If John McCain and the Republican Party remain in power, this situation will not change. Furthermore, if some tragedy were to befall McCain, Palin has left no doubt in anyone's mind that she is completely capable of reading the commands issued by these individuals. While the McCain/Palin Campaign portrays itself as the reform ticket, these same multi-nationals are pouring money into the effort directly and through 527 provisions to insure its success. This phenomenon can be compared to the scenario in which a drug kingpin who has already bought-off key players in law enforcement and the judiciary, finances the campaign of the 'law and order' candidate who is secretly also on his payroll.

This reality is understood throughout the world (except among the religious right which is, by the way, neither) so much so that the European Union was formed in large part to insulate governments on that continent from this same corruption. Any and all candidates running for political office in democracies throughout Europe who have ties to our corrupt administration are handily voted down. The impact of this unified agreement has resulted in a blockade of many American products to a consumer base of nearly half a billion and the subsequent loss of countless American jobs. The distrust of American enterprise has facilitated a rapid increase in the demand for Russian oil and natural gas causing the current tension between the oil friendly Bush Administration and the neo-capitalist Russian government. It is no wonder that the Republican Party will never support successful programs for public education. It is to its advantage for its core electorate to remain oblivious to its true priorities and their consequences. Anyone interested in the future of these great United States must focus on the interview in which Dick Cheney openly admitted that the Republican Party, "will say what we need to, to get elected," and then pursue, with reckless indifference, the policies agreed to prior to the campaign.

Barack Obama must reinvigorate his campaign by simply implementing the truth. In plain terminology, Obama must educate the American people in how it works, how it got this way, and how it can be fixed. He must loudly proclaim that this Republican Administration has not only undermined the Democratic process through trickery and fraud, but has nullified the legislative process by expanding the powers of the presidency which has led to the paralysis of Congress. America is not only crying for change but is also starving for truth. Somebody has to go first.

[knixphan]

82. K&R

[Forkboy]

83. We Democrats have become an extremely timid and easily spooked party.

We see shadows behind every corner (usually in the shape of Karl Rove). We fear backlash for standing up for the most basic of things.

We're scared of Republicans.

[babythunder]

90. ^^ Couldn't agree more

Karl Rove has become the boogey monster and is usually cited as the reason why we shouldn't pursue a particular line of questioning. "Oh no Karl Rove might find out and use it against us" man if I were him I would just laugh my ass of at some Democrats.

[nam78_two]

118. Exactly-thanks

"We fear backlash for standing up for the most basic of things."
It starts with "Don't attack her about her kids etc." (which I totally understand and get behind) but from there it goes on to Palin should not be attacked at all -McCain is the main one etc. What??

I think that is utter nonsense-she is the popular one on that ticket and on important things like her environmental record (which is just mind-blowingly awful) she should be attacked repeatedly...Independents need to be reminded over and over again that she is an anti-choice, anti-environmental, newb who is running whose "experience" from what I can tell consists largely of PTA meetings.

[Forkboy]

119. Our side struggles mightily with the concept of framing the debate.

We constantly back down and accept the way they frame things, putting us behind the 8 ball before we even get started. We fight with one hand tied behind our backs, and 9 times out of 10 we hand them the rope.

"They break our legs and we say 'thank you' when they offer us crutches."

[Number23]

129. I think you may be right

We're scared of Republicans.

As an indie, it looks strange to me that the Republicans will go off the side of a cliff, climb back on it and then go off it again to win an election. They have no substance or a positive record to run on, but they win by sheer brute force. They see the win in sights and God help anyone who gets in their way. But the Democratic party officials and reps seem absolutely REPULSED by the idea of playing politics. I can't say that I blame them, but it will be hard to win anything if you see yourself as above the very processes that have been put in place (even by a corrupt media and ill-informed populace) to win elections.

Even though the OP SPECIFICALLY made this reference:

So who are these detractors who post on nearly every thread that we shouldn't focus on Palin's many issues?

there are still some mentioning gossip and other insignificant points ie her pregnant teenage daughter and this alleged affair. No one is saying go after these "issues". No one is saying go after the gossip. I think every poster who says this stuff is off the table is 100% correct. But this idea that Democrats can't go and go HARD after Palin on her too numerous to count bizarre, un-American and 18th century ideals makes no sense at all.

[kestrel91316]

84. You mean the PC Police?

The ones who give us Democrats a reputation as NANNIES?

I dunno. I don't get it. Vichy collaborators come to mind.

[YvonneCa]

103. Not about politically correct...about politically SAVVY. n/t

[bridgit]

85. Palin is Rove's *watch the birdie*, he had Cheney engaging Kerry leaving bush...

to float & bobble his way in there on the flotsam & jetsam. It's the same trick, same pony, same shit, different day. Time to get busier than stare at whatever Karl Rove wants you to be looking at.

[YvonneCa]

105. DING! DING! DING! ...

...Winner! :patriot:

[lynne]

91. It's more about not being distracted from our objectives by bright, shiny objects -

- than attempting to protect Palin.

[YvonneCa]

106. No more babies in the 2008 Democratic Party...

...2004 grew us up, big time!

[AlinPA]

92. I don't want us to leave her alone, but maybe we could check other threads and reply instead of

starting so many new ones so often. I've done it too, but there are a lot of very similar threads now. Sorry everyone.

[backscatter712]

93. We're not going to leave her alone.

She's shown she can fling poo with the big boys. Time to see if she can take what she dishes out...

This is war. We're not talking about elementary school student council here. We're talking about President and Vice President of the United States.

The fate of our country rests on who gets elected, and that means we have to be willing to absolutely anything to win, or we lose our country.

I don't care if I get called for hitting below the belt. If hitting below the belt is what it takes to win, I'll do it.

[chill_wind]

96. Rove wanted Romney. If I see one more "Rove Is Watching" lament, my head's going to explode.

Rove is now merely the (most likely, very resentful) mop-up detail for a very big mess.


The GOP is deeply divided. Seize that reality and get slicing and dicing. Now is the time. NOW.

60 days people!

[treestar]

97. We don't like mud and are uncomfortable with wallowing in it

The repukes just love it.

There is a tension between being better than they are and not doing things their nasty way and fearing that their way wins, having been burned in 2004.

Then there is also the fascination with the possibility that something is going to come out there is really going to blow McGramps chances sky high, and Quaylin looks like she might produce it.

[flamingdem]

98. Enough on Palin. DU did a good job but now we need to refocus on McBush and Election fraud

Election and voter fraud links here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6929299&mesg_id=6929299

[DailyGrind51]

107. I say, trash the bitch and her little dog too!

When you wrestle with swine, you have to get into the mud with them!:evilgrin:

[totodeinhere]

110. Using the "B" word to describe any woman is unacceptable, even if it's member of the GOP.

During the primary season posters at DU could not get away with calling Hillary a "b...," and rightly so. And the same should apply now. Sexism is wrong regardless of who the victim is.

[babythunder]

120. Does that mean

the word asshole, jackass, dunce, is also off the table? Is this a double standard or what speaking as a woman I think many of you here want to give Palin a pass because she's a woman. If this was say Rudy Giuliani you wouldn't blink twice at a post deriding his messed up personal life.

[totodeinhere]

121. This has nothing to do with giving Palin a pass. Using sexist language is always wrong, period.

[babythunder]

126. So is asshole sexist?

and I guess bastard is also off-limits

[apocalypsehow]

128. You're not really fooling anybody, you know it?

Nice try, though. :hi:

[DailyGrind51]

125. Did I actually say "Palin"? Maybe I was talking about a dog?

The word "bitch" is an accepted word for a female dog, according to the American Kennel Club.

http://www.akc.org/reg/leaseabitch.cfm :sarcasm:

[greguganus]

131. Let's ask the judges...

DU rules say:

Special note with regard to the word "bitch": The word "bitch" has been the source of a great deal of controversy on this website, because some of our members consider it to be a bigoted slur against all women, while others do not consider it bigoted. For a while we actively deleted posts which included this word, in an effort to keep the peace. This effort helped to keep discussions on track, but it resulted in many deleted posts that were otherwise perfectly fine as well as many confused people. Futhermore, the moderators themselves were ambivalent about removing the word. For this reason, we no longer automatically remove the word "bitch." However, we strongly urge members to voluntarily avoid using the word if they wish to keep their own discussions from going off-topic,

and we reserve the right to take disciplinary action if we think someone is deliberately using the word in an effort to disrupt or cause trouble.

They weren't trying to cause trouble using the word bitch, so it looks like the judges approve.

[Triana]

108. CLUE...

...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6963638&mesg_id=6963638

[Snarkoleptic]

113. The stakes are way too high for us to pussy-foot around here.

The gloves are off!

[YvonneCa]

114. Take off the gloves...

...but fight SMART. Don't fall for their crap like in 2000 and 2004.

[Snarkoleptic]

115. Agreed...

Here's what KVH said on the subject...


The Sarah Palin Smokescreen
posted by Katrina vanden Heuvel on 09/04/2008 @ 11:58am

"Here's the deal: Palin is the latest G.O.P. distraction," Bob Herbert wrote in a New York Times op-ed on Tuesday. "She's meant to shift attention away from the real issue of this campaign--the awful state of the nation after eight years of Republican rule. The Republicans are brilliant at distractions."

Herbert's right on target. Barack Obama honed in on that point in Denver too, "If you don't have any fresh ideas, then you use stale tactics to scare the voters. If you don't have a record to run on, then you paint your opponent as someone people should run from. You make a big election about small things."

On cue, Sarah Palin attempted to paint an absurd caricature of Obama in her speech at the Republican Convention last night: "What does he actually seek to accomplish, after he's done turning back the waters and healing the planet? The answer is to make government bigger ... take more of your money ... give you more orders from Washington ... and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world."

More than anything, this election should be about the big issues of our time--ending a disastrous war, restoring America's reputation in the world and building an economy that works for more than just the very rich. The challenge for Democrats is to frame these issues in a way that connects with traditional American and progressive values, exposes Republican callousness and extremism, and in doing so trumps the GOP's political marketing which cynically and cleverly plays on symbolism. As George Lakoff wrote, "Just arguing the realities, the issues, the hard truths should be enough in times this bad, but the political mind and its response to symbolism cannot be ignored..... Democrats, in addition, need to call an extremist an extremist: to shine a light on the shared anti-democratic ideology of McCain and Palin, the same ideology shared by Bush and Cheney. They share values antithetical to our democracy."
The complete piece is at: http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut/354368

[yurbud]

116. there aren't. They are concern trolls

[dailykoff]

117. Apparently this is the latest MSM talking point.

Beware, beware O nosy Dems!!! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!!!

:crazy:

[David Zephyr]

123. She wants to be on the big stage and hide. She deserves all the scrutiny and then some.

I agree.

[ClarkUSA]

130. Because the McCain campaign offers points for prizes to trolls who comment on Dem blogs?

:shrug:

[Barack_America]

133. Because McCain's lack of an economic policy is more important?

And 48% of Americans list the economy as their #1 concern.

:shrug:

[judasdisney]

134. Glad the media has stopped talking about the impending Great Depression

[CitizenPatriot]

135. it is a mistake to try to appease the right

they are going to accuse us of things - they always do.

the smart thing to do is use that knowledge against them.

attack first.

yes, obama wants us to focus on issues, but why can't we do both? He has to do the presidential thing and I admire that. I, on the other hand, am a regular joe voter and I deserve the truth about her. If she's going to lie and hide, which she has from the beginning, I guess I have to work harder to investigate her as JOURNALISTS normally do.

It isn't our fault the media has been sucker punched again and may prove themselves to be the complicit party to the downfall of our democracy.

I'm not going to sit here while my country is being attacked by extremists. They attack us for investigating her because they want us to cower like the media. No dice.

You know that flag story they drummed up? that's the kind of shit they do when they have nothing else to blame on us. I'd rather at least get something out of it -- they've put us in that position of having nothing left to lose, because they are going to accuse us anyway.

I find it fascinating that they cry foul re her baby investigation and it turns out the person who wrote the HuffPo piece is actually voting for Mccain...so the right attacked themselves.

They can whine all they want -- I'm not adjusting my behavior to suit them. That's CRAZY. This isn't a matter of public perception of her victimization. No one is buying that except the extremists. I'm in a red state and even here, everyone thinks she's a joke and they aren't voting or they're voting indie this year.

I'm not suggesting we have this bagged -- no, not at all. But I am saying that people really aren't as stupid as the right wishes they were. They get it to some extent.

So long as it isn't untrue, what is the problem? Give them something real to bitch about:-)

cheers.

[amborin]

140. leave her alone or dems lose...she's pure rove and dems are falling for it