Just one question - what the hell is "speaking in tongues"?

[Hawkeye-X]

Is this another word for gibberish?

Hawkeye-X

[enki23]

1. in a word, yes. it's another way of saying "gibberish"

[secondwind]

2. They speak in another "language", which really sounds like jibberish........

[Jazzgirl]

46. No. It really IS gibberish.

n/t

edited for spelling

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

69. Exactly like gibberish.

Oddly enough.

[tekisui]

3. It is a trance-like state that believers get into,

and believe the "holy spirit" is speaking through them. It comes our as chiskie blag sdiet asdflj....

Yeah, it's gibberish. And, people look and sound ridiculous doing it.

[TomInTib]

18. I've been around a good bit of it.

Freaked me out the first time I heard it.

Back in the 60s, we used to do some great acid on Sunday mornings and then go visit the Pentecostal church in the Piney Woods of deep East Texas. Now, that was an experience. Sometimes, they would let us play in the band (they always had these dinky amplified combos going on).

[shadowknows69]

114. I've tripped in some fucked up places

But I would never dream of walking into that nightmare. You're a braver traveller than I Tom.

[Frisbee]

54. But if the Holy spirit is so pro-American...

why wouldn't speak American? I mean if he REALLY wants to get his message about killing the Muslims and laying pipelines, wouldn't he do a better job of reaching his target audience by speaking the same language as they do?

[DesertFlower]

4. i've been told that it's

a gift. why is it a gift if no one can understand WTF you're saying?

[crankychatter]

61. The Assembly of God Denomination specifically proscribes "Speaking in Tongues" in the Assembly

...without an "interpretation." So in practice, when some old lady spews, some poor Deacon feels obliged to do some "thus saith the Lord," generic "interpretation," or "prophecy."

In order to compete with the non-denominational, modern "mega-churches," the Assembly of God has taken to naming their churches, "Christian Centers," etc. They may also have become more "liberal" in reference to the practice of "speaking in tongues," in the General Assembly.

I'm a Pentecostal Agnostic. I speak in tongues, but, I'm convinced that it's brain damage.

The United Pentecostals believe that you cannot have the Holy Spirit in you unless you speak in tongues... therefore, if you do not speak in tongues, you are going to hell.

Many of the stodgier, Dispensationalist, Baptist types, believe that "speaking in tongues," is "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." Which, in the New Testament, is described as the only "Unforgivable sin." Therefore, if you speak in tongues, you are going to hell.

The Protestant Book of Denominations is thicker than an unabridged dictionary... with a brief history and doctrinal synopsis of each of the many denominations.

I perused that book once... spoke with every evangelical organization imaginable and, in my opinion... ALL of them are convinced that ALL of the other ones, are going to hell.

The anti-Abortion/anti-Gay/pro-Gun show of unity they put on every four years is pure tripe. They hate each other only slightly less than they hate the rest of us.

fuck 'em

[DesertFlower]

77. thanks for the information. nt

[Samantha]

78. What exactly is a Pentecostal Agnostic?

I am not trying to be offensive, but simply political. Regarding your statement, "Many of the stodgier, Dispensationalist, Baptist types, believe that "speaking in tongues," is "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." Which, in the New Testament, is described as the only "Unforgivable sin." Therefore, if you speak in tongues, you are going to hell" -- please let me ask you a question. I was raised in Tennessee and I heard many Southern Baptist adults make statements to this effect.

So I ask you in all sincerity: If the Southern Baptists learn of Palin's religion, do you think they will still vote for the McCain ticket?

I personally think the Southern Baptists would be so appalled by Palin's religion, rather than vote for McCain, they would stay home.

Sam

[Hekate]

89. I think your question re the Southern Baptists is answered already: "Every four years...unity"...

As crankychatter said: "The anti-Abortion/anti-Gay/pro-Gun show of unity they put on every four years is pure tripe" meaning they get in line like good Republicans and vote the ticket.

Hekate

[crankychatter]

103. I'm not prejudiced RE Fundamentalism: I have contempt AFTER investigation

how they vote is anti-choice, anti-gay and regarding international policy, they favor strident bellicosity.

predictions? I don't have any.

pentecostal agnostic: one that "speaks in tongues" but it's probably "brain damage?"

it's a joke... I'm sure I need some new material

smile

[Hekate]

88. Well done, cranky. I actually learned something I didn't know...

(I didn't know there was a Protestant Book of Denominations. I'm a mythologist, so my knowledge of the many sects of Christianity is more incidental than in depth, though I make every effort to be accurate when I speak out.) And the way you put it made me smile.

Hekate

:hi:

[Joe Bacon]

104. Same with the Foursquare churches

When I first came out to California, my aunt made me go to Foursquare churches with her for a year. It was truly amazing to see how many people competed to make a fool of themselves with the "talking in tounges" crap. What was truly amazing was how the "translations" just happened to be the same kind of recycled Republican propaganda that ministers recycled week after week. They always attacked the same four people--Senator Kennedy, Maxine Waters, Dan Rather and Phil Donahue over and over again. And the Republican Party always had their stuffer in the weekly bulletin kissing Reagan's ass and saying he was God's man and Carter was so evil. Meanwhile there was the usual Ted Haggard type crap where the preachers were cheating on their wives, heck I remember when the so-called "Power Team" a bunch of "Christian Bodybuilders" came to testify and the head of their group was just so over the top in denouncing evil Democrats like Jerry Brown. The next week, the same ass who flaunted his body like a Chippendale dancer left his wife and kids for another man. The hypocrisy was just amazing, and they would repeatedly get away with it because Jesus forgives them. Truly turned me against Christianity and the first thing I did after I left my aunts home was vow to NEVER waste my time in a church again. It's better to sleep in my bed on a Sunday morning instead of sleeping in a pew hearing endless Republican propaganda.

[crankychatter]

105. my grandmother was an Amy Semple McPherson evangelical... white robes... streetcorners w/tambourines

While her second husband was beating the hell out of my father.

So, gratefully, I was raised in happy agnosticism... such was my fathers's reaction to that childhood trauma.

On the other hand... it gave me an open mind and perhaps, made me more vulnerable to evangelism

as stated... I'm not "prejudiced." I have contempt AFTER investigation.

[goodgd_yall]

5. Worse than gibberish---there's no recognizable words

Otherwise known as glossolalia

[baldguy]

6. Self-induced psychosis

[TomInTib]

7. It is when a worshipper feels the Holy Spirit within them and is moved to speak...

in, basically, utter gibberish.

Freaked me straight out, first time I witnessed that business.

[Honeycombe8]

8. Me, too, re your post. (and me, too, re your sig line!) nt

[TomInTib]

24. ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6966660&mesg_id=6966776

[Liberal Veteran]

19. Freaked me out as well the first time I saw it. I asked my mom if they were having a seizure.

And got a dirty look for my trouble.

[TomInTib]

28. Like when they all start praying out loud at the same time. nt

[Lithos]

9. It is properly called Glossolalia

And has a psychological/physiological basis. Basically it is a situation where the linguistic centers are controlled by the emotional centers and what comes out is more or less tonal noises of the emotional state. It is not really gibberish, but it is definitely not language and definitely not "inspired".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia for a start.

On Edit: Spelling.

[TooRaLoo]

91. I don't think most of them are in any kind of 'state'

I went to churches like this as a kid, and I was coached to do this. I said a bunch of gibberish all right, but just to fit in. It wasn't inspired by any emotion. I also noticed that all the adults had their own "style" - as in, they liked to use the same syllables, and the same strings of syllables, every Sunday. They sounded the same each time. They are making noise, that's all.

But there could be something to the "group hypnosis" theory. The hysteria does rub off on a lot of them. As a kid, it never seemed natural to me, and it never will. I still feel that it is a contrived practice, nothing spiritual.

[NoFederales]

117. Well, I guess anything can be legitimized, now. What do they speak in these

Babble-lons? Uber-Babyl? Shit Fire And Save Matches.

NoFederales

[Dollface]

10. It's utter bullshit.

[C_U_L8R]

11. It's a cult state of frenzy

One part nonsensical chanting, one part hyperventilation...
add a wallop of pseudo religious gobbledygook
and a whole lot of crowd madness
and you find yourself in a psychic "state" akin to doing whippets

Also it's a great album by the Talking Heads

[BuyingThyme]

12. It's when you burp, but it's really Jesus doing the burping.

[Liberal Veteran]

13. Meka leka hi meka hiene ho, meka leka hi meka johnny ho.

Coindon fi dea yarmesh brin covep.

[tosh]

53. Thanks for the memory!

:rofl:

Seriously though, my parents always referred to this "segment of society" as Holy Rollers and I was to avoid them.

I had smart parents - both Dems.

[thenam]

14. Don't forget "interpreting" tongues

After someone utters the gibberish, someone in the congregation is supposed to be able to interpret it. So in other words, one person invents some gibberish, and the next person gets to invent its meaning. Teamwork!

[Resuscitated Ethics]

15. savant-like parlor trick of religious frenzy

Involving the sudden fluent speaking of a language 'previously unknown' to the speaker.

wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia

If you believe you believe

The 'languages are supposed to be biblical in nature and understood by true believers as holy language.

http://www.speaking-in-tongues.net/

edited for further clarity-I am a slow wiki-er

[the Sundance Kid]

16. it's only real tongues if others can understand what you are saying

otherwise it's just babble

[gort]

17. I believe it goes something like this.....

Bwahhh-bluhhhh-waaaah....aaaaoooooogaaaaa....brrrrrrr!...Aaaarp!...giibbbboo g-gaaabu giibooo gabooo....nyuk nyuk nyuk

[npincus]

22. ROFL... you forgot "dibble dibble gloop"

:rofl:

[Liberal Veteran]

27. Here's a historic example of speaking in tongues.

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

[gort]

30. dibble gloop to you too

eom

[Sebastian Doyle]

20. They believe it to be a manifestation of the Holy Spirit.

It's based on Biblical teaching in the book of Acts....

Acts 2

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Now in the above example, these people were speaking known languages, just not the ones native to them. A lot of these fundagelicals speak (as you say) "gibberish" or an "unknown" language, which they claim is a Heavenly language that only God and those also "spirit-filled" would understand.

Now it's not my place to judge whether someone is filled with the Holy Spirit or not. But I'll say this much... the preachers on TV who I have seen suddenly break into "tongues" mode are every bit as real as a Diebold election result.

[The Night Owl]

21. A really creepy example of someone speaking in tongues...

Skip to 7:34...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fkn1BilNhmc&feature=related

[Parker CA]

55. The way that guy has mastered rolling his r's

would make him a great candidate for a Rrrruffles have rrrrridges commercial.

I've seen this before in person, and it's ridiculous. I was told it is a language only angels can understand and that it confuses the devil.

I'd love someone to find a tape of Palin partaking in this nonsense.

[XemaSab]

81. That man's eyes

are not pointing in the same direction. :o

[Liberal_in_LA]

84. What did we do before youtube existed?

[tanyev]

23. Matt Taibbi does a great job of describing it in his book The Great Derangement.

He went undercover for awhile at Hagee's church (brave man) and went on some weekend retreat where the climax was an intense session where everybody started speaking in tongues. He didn't want to call attention to himself for not speaking in tongues, so he recited some things he knew in Russian. Nobody questioned it.

[CrispyQ]

60. "...so he recited some things he knew in Russian. Nobody questioned it."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I've got that book on my desk but haven't started it yet. Thanks for the tidbit!

[tanyev]

64. It was really good.

Kind of nauseating/scary, but I gained a whole new level of admiration for Taibbi. I can't imagine doing all the stuff he did, just to get a story.

[Gabi Hayes]

71. he's had a very 'interesting' life. his book about the 2004 fiasco is also very good.

he goes after dems quite hard, too

the section "Wimblehack", on all the craven 'journalists' covering the election was my favorite

it's from a series he did in the NY Press:


http://www.nypress.com/17/40/news&columns/feature.cfm

[MikeNearMcChord]

25. Even the Bible calls it gibberish

If you speak in tongues you are supposed to have it translated or tell the congregation what you have said., otherwise it is false prophecy, and a waste of air. First Corinthians chapter 14 talks about it.

[Liberal Veteran]

29. Shit. We need to go to some of those churches and do some translation.

Speaker: "Egel nom diso mooeh no brome ast me donya! Betre teo poel dus tatana!"

Us: He said, "Republicans are a crime against nature! Voting republican is an affront to God!"

[trashcanistanista]

32. LOL!!! Post of the day!

[chatnoir]

63. LOL! Best. Idea. Ever.

[TwilightGardener]

26. I'm pushing for the media to show the rest of the country what Palin's church

is all about. Let's roll tape of these fools hopping up and down, flopping around on the floor, giggling, crying, and sounding like stereotyped Indians from old westerns.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

40. I'd give anything to see a video of Sarah Palin Holy Rollering across the floor

I wonder if her church however believes in allowing cameras inside, fearing that their souls might be captured.

[totodeinhere]

115. You are making a big mistake. If we concentrate to much on Palin's church then that will invite...

the Pukes to bring up Obama's former church and Rev. Wright, and we lose.

[Peacetrain]

31. Well did you ever hear of the tower of babble

there was only one language spoken, and they were building the tower to God...God then had them speaking in different languages so they could not understand each other to stop the tower..

its also the universal language of heaven ..


But mostly it is a mass hysteria..

[Liberal Veteran]

34. I've always thought the Tower of Babel was the lamest smoting ever!

[Peacetrain]

36. :) not a good one..yep that is where the word babble comes from

Tower of Babel..

[Liberal Veteran]

39. Boils or locusts or frogs (?wtf) would have been better.

Though not as open to explaining the diversity of languages.

[Peacetrain]

41. I'll take language differences over boils any day!

Not too fond of locusts either, and frogs, well the ones with two heads creep me out.. so with that

banana fanna bo fannah , me my mo fan uh.. banana

[Liberal Veteran]

47. Although if they had done the frogs that cause hallucinations (ala toad licking), then the story...

...would have still made sense. God smotes (smites? I never do understand how to conjugate that word) the people with psychedelic frogs and everyone starts babbling incoherently!

[Peacetrain]

52. As I understand it, from a yoda like seer..

The toads you speak of, ARE the offspring of said same plague frogs, who inadvertently crossed with the boil plague, and became warty little toads.

Now seeing that the babble incident preceded the frog and boil plague, I can only surmise, that the warty toad with psychedelic hides, time warped to the Tower of Babel,whereas the workers on that tower, looked and said "hmmmm, think i will try a toad for lunch" causing said same language diversity.


WORKS FOR ME! :rofl:

[Hekate]

94. So many irregular verbs, so little time. Smite, smote, smitten.

It irritates the heck out of me that newspapers have begun to regularize the irregular verbs. "Proven" has disappeared altogether in favor of "proved."

Hekate

[Sebastian Doyle]

85. Also where the name for the Babel fish came from

"The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix, formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear, you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language."

[shadowknows69]

116. Didn't exactly go a long way to bringing humanity together

[Kaylee]

33. I remember being invited to a church when I was in college.

Unfortunately, they didn't warn me that the church spoke it tongues. I had always assumed speaking in tongues was a bunch of gibberish, until I heard it. Freaked me the hell out. To this day, I believe what I heard was an actually language. I can't explain it, but there was a pattern and sequence to the words.

They would bring all the children up to the front of the church and pray over them, until I guess the "spirit" gave them the words. Getting kids to speak in tongues appeared to be whole purpose of the church. Needless to say, I never went back.

Not only did it freak me out, but this may sound silly, but I thought it was rude. I mean, I was invited to the church, and I couldn't even understand half the service. :evilgrin:

[Punkingal]

62. I was invited by a friend

And someone behind us was speaking, and it sounded like language to me, also. It was strange to hear, but it definitely had a pattern and cadence to it. I have no explanation for it, but it wasn't scary, just interesting in a kind of being at the zoo way.

[Jacobin]

35. It's what country white folks do instead of doing mescaline or lsd

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

37. It's bullshit on stilts. n/t

[DCBob]

38. According to the Bible it is the Holy Spirit speaking and praying to God.

I have never done it but I have attended churches where they were doing it and it is freaky but they do appear to be "moved". I don't criticize anyone's religion no matter how strange because you never know.

[Bluenorthwest]

57. Ummm....

Cite a verse. I suggest you consult the Bible if you really wish to understand what it says about this. What you say is not in there. Not at all. People at a Hannah Montana concert appear to be moved, shall we worship her too?

[DCBob]

98. Don't know the exact verse but that is what was taught in the church I attended.

It may be a further modern interpretation taken from events in the Bible. Not sure.

[coalition_unwilling]

67. Why would the Holy Spirit need

to "speak to God?" I thought the two were one and the same?

If the Holy Spirit did pray to God, it would create a feedback loop that would make Hendrix seem like Loggins & Messina! :)

[treestar]

75. And why would it be in an unintelligble language?

You'd think God would want the message to get across and use the local language!

[DCBob]

99. The way I understand it -- it is the Spirit within praying for the person.

The thought being that we as mere humans often don't know what to pray for.

[Qutzupalotl]

42. The sum total of Palin's foreign policy experience.

Glossolalia.

[PurityOfEssence]

43. Pure religion: rapturous, delusional noise

Ambient faith at its best; hell, at least it smacks of accuracy. It's the unrestrained flowing of uncomprehended impulses, somewhat like the brain's housecleaning release in a dream.

[kestrel91316]

44. Holy rollers. Yes, it's complete gibberish that they claim is

actually ancient languages gifted to them by God. And I think they make up translations, too.

[JVS]

45. No. Read this.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202%20;&version=47;

[RagAss]

48. it's another bullshit routine ,,,,,,,

[Liberal Dose]

49. I attended an Assembly of God church in Maine for a few years

Speaking in tongues is what happens when you are overcome with the Holy Spirit, or, for lack of better description, possessed by the Holy Spirit. You speak in tongues and someone else in the congregation is suddenly given the gift of interpretation, and they translate your "words of God" to everyone, including you.

I never had it happen to me for real, but I did fake it once. During a Friday evening service, while we were all swaying with our arms up, palms to God, I opened my eyes a little and peeked around the room. The thought popped into my head that this was all just so much bullshit.

I decided to fake speaking in tongues and immediately acted upon it. I just went all out and imitated so many others I'd seen and heard. I figured if this Holy Spirit possession thing was real I'd be busted when nobody received the gift of interpretation. I was imagining being chased down the road by an angry mob, all of them carrying torches or pitchforks. But when I stopped, someone actually fake interpreted my fake tongue speaking. I did feel guilty afterwards, when people were so happy for me.

Of course I never went back. In fact, I never went back to any church. Instead I spent a lot of years looking into all religions, and (just like most people I know) ended up drawing my own conclusions.

[TexasObserver]

74. Indeed. It is learned, practiced behavior, enhanced by self hypnosis.

[Liberal Dose]

96. That makes sense, and also explains how they can do it without laughing. eom

[LiberalFighter]

50. As other posters state... it is gibberish. They CLAIM...

that they are speaking in another language that is understandable by others. The problem is that no one understands what they are saying including themselves.

In Acts 2:

5 Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven living in Jerusalem.

6 And at this sound the crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in the native language of each.

7 Amazed and astonished, they asked, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans?

8 And how is it that we hear, each of us, in our own native language?



Here the crowd heard the speakers in their own language. It is difficult to determine if each speaker spoke in a different language or if everyone in the crowd heard the same speaker in their own language. This event is only "recorded" in the NT.

[BlooInBloo]

51. Just some stupid shit religious nuts believe in.

[Mz Pip]

56. Babbling in church

First you babble.

Then you faint.

Then Jesus comes and wakes you up.

Everyone cheers!

Yay!

[Odin2005]

58. It's a kind of hyper-emotional trance called "glossolalia" IIRC. n/t.

[Peregrine Took]

59. Sorry to disturb your religious prejudices but I've seen it in Catholic prayer

groups and its very awe inspiring.

The members of this small group were middle aged, educated, professional men and women. We would begin by saying the rosary then some additional prayers and then they would just lapse into this Aramaic sounding language.

The odd thing is what they were saying all sounded similar (Aramaic) but it was not in unison.
It was quiet, dignified and very prayerful - they just seemed like they were in a trance.

It would last for only a few minutes then seemed to end all at once. Then we would go on to some other "thanks and praise" type quiet prayers.

I can't emphasize enough that these were very wonderful, kind, holy and charitable people and not "weird-o's" at all.

[LostinVA]

70. Were they "charismatic" Catholics or Roman Catholics?

[Hekate]

95. Thank you for the info Pippin (may I call you Pippin?). My late aunt & uncle became Catholic Pente-

My late aunt & uncle became Catholic Pentecostals. They went to Spain to spread this form of worship, which I gather was frowned upon and possibly dangerous at the time, so clearly it meant a great deal to them. They were both fluent in Spanish already.

My parents were both raised in the Roman Catholic church, and both decided to leave early in their marriage. My mom's sister and her husband went into Catholic Pentecostalism after they were retired. Sadly, I was too inhibited to ask my aunt and uncle about their experiences while they were still alive. It sounds like they were looking for -- and found -- a type of spiritual renewal within their original tradition.

Hekate

[Trajan]

65. Glossolalia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia

-snip-

Linguistics of Pentecostal glossolalia

William J. Samarin, an eminent linguist from the University of Toronto, published a thorough assessment of Pentecostal glossolalia that became the classic work on its linguistic characteristics.<10> His assessment was based on a large sample of glossolalia recorded in public and private Christian meetings in Italy, Holland, Jamaica, Canada and the USA over the course of five years; his wide range included the Puerto Ricans of the Bronx, the snake-handlers of the Appalachians, and Russian Molakans in Los Angeles.

Samarin found that glossolalic speech does resemble human language in some respects. The speaker uses accent, rhythm, intonation and pauses to break up the speech into distinct units. Each unit is itself made up of syllables, the syllables being formed from consonants and vowels taken from a language known to the speaker.

----It is verbal behavior that consists of using a certain number of consonants and vowels\dots in a ----limited number of syllables that in turn are organized into larger units that are taken apart and ----rearranged pseudogrammatically\dots with variations in pitch, volume, speed and intensity.<11>

----Glossolalia consists of strings of syllables, made up of sounds taken from all those that the ----speaker knows, put together more or less haphazardly but emerging nevertheless as word-like and ----sentence-like units because of realistic, language-like rhythm and melody.<12>

That the sounds are taken from the set of sounds already known to the speaker is confirmed by others: Felicitas Goodman found that the speech of glossolalists reflected the patterns of speech of the speaker's native language.<13>

However the resemblance to human language is merely on the surface; glossolalia is "only a facade of language".<14> The syllable string does not form words. The stream of speech is not internally organised. Most importantly of all, there is no systematic relationship between units of speech and concepts. Any human language aims to communicate; glossolalia does not. Glossolalia is not "a specimen of human language because it is neither internally organized nor systematically related to the world man perceives".<15>

On the basis of his linguistic analysis, Samarin defined Pentecostal glossolalia as "meaningless but phonologically structured human utterance, believed by the speaker to be a real language but bearing no systematic resemblance to any natural language, living or dead".<16>

[greguganus]

66. I just love these anti-Christian posts. Wonder how long an anti-Muslim post would stay up?n/t

[Trajan]

68. Ah yes .....

Criticize any outlandish ritual behavior and you are 'anti-christian' ....

Sorry to break this to ya, but most of the Christian denominations do NOT condone the ritual of glossolalia .... and they far outnumber the Pentecostals .... So those christians are 'anti-christian' as well .... Fancy that ....

[greguganus]

107. Oh, I get it. As long as you're not attacking MOST Christian denominations, it's okay!

I'm glad you explained that to me. So as long as MOST Muslims don't get attacked, it's okay too, right?

[Trajan]

119. Fuck it ....

Fuck ALL religions ....

Happy ?

Sheeesh .....

Smashed any priceless Bamian statues lately ?

Burned any ancient libraries full of the world's accumulated knowledge lately ???

NOBODY attacks religion more completely than religion .... NOBODY .....

The whole kit and caboodle can fly off the fucking planet, as far as I am concerned ....

Offended ? ... good .....

[Bill McBlueState]

72. unsurprising

We're often asked to let all sorts of bizzare, irrational behavior just slide right on by, because some Christians happen to participate in it.

There's plenty of irrational bullshit to criticize in both Christianity and Islam. But since the Republican VP nominee goes to a church that does the speaking-in-tongues routine, it makes sense that people are going after that today.

[greguganus]

108. But it's not bizarre to those practicing it. So we can attack anything that we feel is bizarre.

How many people have to consider it bizarre before we can attack it?

[Bill McBlueState]

120. It's not a majority-rules kind of thing

Magical thinking should be ridiculed no matter how popular or unpopular it is.

[TexasObserver]

73. I just love those who lack any of the qualities Jesus stood for, but claim to follow him.

Turn the other cheek, if you find it offensive for others to reject the bizarre practices of some of the more cultish members of the religion.

If you think speaking in tongues is normal, that's something you should work on.

[greguganus]

109. Who's to say what's normal in someone's religion?

And as far as turning the other cheek, you should also "practice what you preach".

[TexasObserver]

123. I am.

And so does every other person in America.

If you think you're speaking in tongues, you're nuts.

[LeftyMom]

86. This isn't anti-Christian, because even most Christians know it's BS.

Which you'd know if you'd read the damn thread.

[greguganus]

110. There goes the use of the "MOST' word again.

How many is "most"? The Christians that practice it don't consider it BS.

Can I call out Jews for practicing Kaparot? It's when a live chicken is grabbed by the shoulders and rotated around the person's head 3 times and the person's sins are transferred to the chicken.

I just don't understand the reasoning behind attacking anyone's religion, not just Christianity.

[LeftyMom]

118. Religious motivation doesn't make stupidity less stupid or immune to criticism.

Of course you can criticize people for superstitious chicken abuse, or for believing that Jesus is going to vacuum them up to heaven a week from Tuesday, or any other blindingly stupid thing. Moreover, you ABSOLUTELY SHOULD do so, because we're not going to get anywhere as a society when stupid, cruel, wasteful or dangerous ideas and practices continue unchallenged.

[TwilightGardener]

90. "Anti-Christian"? This is one goofy sect with its one bizarre ritual.

I will ridicule the ridiculous--as a Christian myself.

[greguganus]

111. Will you ridicule the Jews for Kaparot? n/t

[crankychatter]

106. per C.S. Lewis & most Christian Scholars, the practice of glossalalia is NOT justifiable as doctrine

not even implied doctrine

yet alone, dogma

In NO WAY, is it's practice indicative or definitive of "true" Christianity

NO ONE IS ATTACKING "Christianity"

We have a potential VP that thinks babbling nonsense is Angels from Heaven speaking through her... and that the 13th chapter of Paul's Epistle to the Romans justifies the fucking politics of Mussolini.

If you don't find that alarming and worthy of discussion... ascribing anti-Christian sentiment to our concerns... I have to wonder what you're doing here

what motivates THAT particular piece of snark?

Are you saying we're pro-Muslim? and thereby un-American?

[greguganus]

112. No I just think attacking anyone's religion is stupid

and speaking in tongues is one of the Christian's gifts of the spirit.
Another one is interpreting the person speaking in tongues.

[mitchum]

76. Cracker gibberish

[Hawkeye-X]

79. Just for the record: I'm not a Christian - I'm an agnostic Jew.

[greguganus]

113. Ever rotate a chicken around your head? n/t

[TheDonkey]

80. I wouldn't "diss" speaking in tounges. It is odd to think about but is just a reaction to emotion

I know some people think of it in a more religious sense of God speaking through them but really it is just a reaction/expression of great emotion.

Not much different from crying, clapping, or screaming I do not think there is anything explicitly wrong for someone wanting to express himself in that way.

[XemaSab]

82. I was wondering today if it would be more effective to go around

campaigning for Obama or "campaigning" for McCain.

I'm sure if I asked people to pray in tongues for a McCain victory, the Lord would hear their prayers. :hide:

[Az]

83. Speaking in tongues is part of the charismatic staple of effects

It is a sociological effect caused by peer pressure and exposure to particular forms of behavior. Witnessing others held in high esteem partaking in certain practices will cause people to seek to let loose the same or similar practices in themselves. That is they wish to be part of the community or even honored by the community. Speaking in tongues manifests as a flow of sounds that may seem like language from a person given in an emotional state of reverie. In charismatic churches this is often done in mass with many in the service presenting such expressions of faith. The emotional experience of this can be quite overwhelming for the individual at the time because they may not be consciously aware of where the flow of dialog is coming from. Thus they emotionally believe it to be the Holy Ghost rising up within them when in fact it is merely their own subconscious babbling forth.

Other actions can often be witnessed in such churches and others. Holy rollers, shakers, quivering, feinting, being overcome with the holy spirit. All these are examples of peer pressure enabling people to feel extreme emotions within a social group where such things are common place or expected. Over time as members become practiced at getting the spirit it comes easier and easier. All without their seeming conscious bidding. Thus it can become an emotionally overwhelming and utterly convincing experience for them.

[Two Americas]

93. great description

Thanks. That was really well done.

[H2O Man]

97. Best answer possible.

[Obamican23]

87. Evangelicals and some protestants beleive

when they are touched by god they gain the ability to speak in other languages. It's taken from the biblical tale of the apostles; who received those abilities from jesus after he passed away. A little flame danced above their head and allowed them to speak other languages.


Now I don't consider it that crazy. If you beleive Jesus was the son of god in the first place its not much of a stretch to beleive in speaking in tongues.

People in glass houses should not throw rocks.

All religions are glass houses.

[Colobo]

92. It's what some excited religious people do during services.

[Douglas Carpenter]

100. BTW: Al Sharpton is a Pentecostal preacher

There are millions and millions of Pentecostals in American -both black and white. As with other church going Christians in American - about 70% - most (but but by no means all )white Pentecostals are Republicans - Most black Pentecostals -ALMOST ALL - about 90% - are Democrats.

It will NOT do ANY good to attack Sarah Palin or anyone else for that matter - on non-political religious beliefs.

ONLY IF RELIGIOUS BELIEFS BECOME POLITICAL BELIEFS - MIGHT THERE BE A LEGITIMATE AND STRATEGIC REASON FOR ATTACKING.

If for instance she holds, which I gather she does, that we are living in the "End of Times" and God requires her to advance America toward the Battle of Armageddon in an apocalyptic military confrontation in the Middle East- that should be one reason to suggest that she might NOT be trustworthy handling the nations nuclear launch codes.

I posted this in the lounge a couple of months back in regards to the subject of speaking in tongues.

I will repost it now:

I was "raised" in a Pentecostal church and yes ,I have in the past spoken in tongues

According to Pentecostal theology, after a person has been saved (found Jesus Christ as their personal savior) God offers to the believer the opportunity to be as they say, "Baptized in the Holy" Spirit. This is based on an interpretation in the New Testament from the Book of Acts Chapter 2.

Most Pentecostals believe that when they are Baptized in the Holy Spirit, this experience will be accompanied by the sign of speaking in tongues. Pentecostal believers hold that this is a special prayer language which might be an unknown foreign language or a language of angels.

Now what is actually happening? To be honest, I sincerely don't know.
But in general a person allows their mouth to spontaneously form words and syllables.

In some Pentecostal or Charismatic gatherings this takes the form of a kind of spontaneous singing in tongues. I must admit, even now that experience did appear to be somewhat mystical. On other occasions someone might feel moved to utter a message in tongues, followed by another who feels moved to deliver an interpretation of the message. Usually the messages were rather broad and generic appeals to turn to God and trust him completely.

Certainly in Pentecostal and Charismatic circles this is considered a kind of "right of passage" to be "baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues according to Acts 2:4." I should also add that some of the times this involves a very worked up state. Most of the times it does not.

It has been slightly less than thirty years since I have been a Pentecostal or even a Evangelical believers, but I can still at any time I want, still speak in tongues.

BTW: Al Sharpton is a Pentecostal Preacher. So Pentecostals are a more divers lot than many would imagine. No doubt most white Pentecostals are Republicans, and most latino and African-American Pentecostals are Democrats. Tongue-speaking Pentecostals or Charismatics are just as normal as any other community of religious people. The vast majority are absolutely sincere in their beliefs. They have the same mixture of nice and not-so-nice people, educated and intelligent and not so educated and intelligent people as any other group.

Note: Charismatics are members of mainstream non-Pentecostal Churches that also practice speaking in tongues and faith healing.

[The Night Owl]

102. Here is the deal...

I admire certain things Al Sharpton has done but I wouldn't want him as VP. I wouldn't want any religious fundamentalist as VP.

[TexasObserver]

101. "Speaking In Tongues" is supposed to be one of the "gifts" of the Holy Spirit

It's traced to the day called the day of Pentecost, which was the 50th day after Jesus was said to have resurrected. On that day, it is said his apostles were speaking in tongues, and that each man present in the crowd heard in his own native language.

The clear implication of the report found in the Bible is that "speaking in tongues" was actually a euphemism for "speaking in other languages." If people today were really speaking in tongues the way the apostles were alleged to have done, they would speak in actual languages, like German, Russian, French, Japanese, Chinese, etc. In fact, they do not do so. When they claim to speak in tongues, they each talk gibberish, a contrived personal set of repeating syllables that make no sense to anyone, including the one saying it.

But it has become a staple of the fringe elements of fundies in America. They claim the holy spirit is passing through them.

[kitkat65]

121. A really awesome album from the Talking Heads!

[Hepburn]

122. Yeah, basically....

....there are some bogus ministers on TV that do that at times. I watched some guy...Tilton (???)... putting on a show like this one day.

Weird, really, really WEIRD!!!