I think the community organizer bullshit is bait too.

[smartvoter]

The more we bring it up, outraged and rightfully so or not, the more Obama's bio is reduced to that single piece.

If they can make this about Palin as Mayor versus Obama as Organizer, McCain rises to the become the "real" candidate. Or at least, that's what they want to do.

We've already seen the polls. Palin didn't accomplish crap outside of the loony base. We should leave them stuck there, with no ability to grow their bullshit beyond those who are hungry enough to eat it.


edit: clarity

Wait. I guess I didn't spell this out right. I don't mean they shouldn't be held accountable for belittling community service. I meant that we shouldn't get caught up in the Palin vs. Obama argument they are trying to set up with, which allows them to repeatedly define him.

It was just an observation and I didn't complete the thought. Sorry to offend.

[Forkboy]

1. Over-analysization, thy name is DU.

[ClassWarrior]

2. So shift the debate. Ask what Rape-Publicans have against community service.

NGU.

[Zenmaster]

3. Your paranoid. It was a monumental fuck up

[smartvoter]

9. Perhaps , but it was a coordinated fuck up. It was a talking point that night.

It was in Giuliani's speech and their talking heads on the news channels. Was their target community organizers or Obama?

Just an observation. You can diagree and that's cool.

[4themind]

4. I see what you mean and I agree that

it shouldn't be the totality of what we talk about, but I think, at least last week, they left themselves open for a "quick jab" that Obama exploited by pointing to the potential of the "everyday" man, to be a community organizer and to make a difference in the face of governments that ignore them (like bush and McCain) So I think he used it to push a narrative that he'd been already propagating , everyday people, joining together and with Obama to fight "out of touch politicians". Beyond that everyone knows he's a U.S. senator right now, and that can't be ignored no matter how much either side brings up the "community" organizing thing IMO. However, I do believe that combating this charge shouldn't become a center piece of this campaign, but if McCain brings it up in a debate, Obama can use it to pivot right into an attack, rather than simply trying to down play the charge

[Honeycombe8]

5. It depends on how it's done. She should be called on the carpet for insulting the thousands

of community organizers in the country, who are "serving a cause greater than their own," and who work often for faith-based organizations.

It doesn't have to be tied closely w/Obama, or at all. Or Obama's background can be thrown in, for good measure.

But it should be addressed...not as a "qualification" for being President, necessarily. But for her deriding good common folk trying to do some good things for the country. That's what it's all about.

[Left Is Write]

8. The fact that she insulted those thousands of community organizers

should be pounded home again and again and again.

[smartvoter]

10. I agree. I guess I should have spelled that out.

What I meant to say and guess I didn't think before posting was that we shouldn't get caught up in their attempt to compare the bios. They've been working overtime to do it and so far it hasn't gotten them anywhere, so screw 'em.

As far as the larger issue? I agree with you 100%.

[Honeycombe8]

14. Oh, I see. Yes, I agree w/that. Not comparing bios as "qualifications." nt

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

6. Can't we fight on several fronts?

Can't we raise Obama's image and recite his accomplishments, while attacking McCain and Palin as well? I for one don't understand why we should not take advantage of any opening to criticize either of them, while still promoting Obama's tremendous academic and intellectual qualifications, the smartest guy by far in the race.

[MadMaddie]

7. I think it is just another juvenile strategy that they didn't think

through....no surprise there.

They now have churches who are outraged at the insinuation that helping one's fellow man is somehow meaningless.

They fucked up and Palin with her scrunched up nose displayed the Republicans true nature.....

It backfired, the interesting thing is that they haven't figured it out yet. They are slow like that.

[nini]

11. ARE WE SUPPOSED TO SAY NOTHING IN RESPONSE TO THEIR SHIT?

I think the problem with some people is they are so fucking paranoid that everything has to be a setup and we have to ignore it or play nice?

Seriously, WTF?????


She is insulting the core of what is good about this country and we ignore her? Fuck that.


He is handling it perfectly by mocking her in ignoring everything in his career between that and now.

[smartvoter]

18. No. What I was trying - poorly - to get across was that

They are trying to box Obama in to that portion and we shouldn't get caught up in the bio comparison.

That has nothing to do with the larger insult to organizers. This wasn't a single-person comment. It was a talking point and when reading some of the threads here comparing Obama and Palin it occurred to me that this is probably what they wanted to do. When I first heard it that night I thought it was a fuckup, then it was in her speech as well as Giuliani's and then everyone they interviewed drove it home. I didn't think of it at the time but it kind of hit me when I checked in her and saw all the Obama vs. Palin threads.

I am not afraid of a fight. In fact, I can show you links to Palin's Facebook wall where I spent the better part of yesterday countering the bullshit so people who stop by to check her out get the other side. Her minions are literally trying to get me banned. And I could give you ridiculous numbers of protest and other pics.

I am not trying to offend anybody and I'm not trying to say we don't stick up for organizers. Just that we don't get up in the #1 on our ticket vs. the #2 on theirs.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers.

[nini]

29. True, she is trying to pin that on him as if he's done nothing else

BUT the bigger point is she is smacking down anyone who doesn't have their's and tries to help fellow Americans. It's a not so shallow attack on all of us who either have been in need at one point, or they think are stupid for not being greedy shitheads like them. She definitely needs this thrown back at her sanctimonious feet at every opportunity as it is EXACTLY what is at the core of this election - they do not get it and do NOT CARE.

My excited response was a culmination of a lot of stuff I've seen here the last week or so, not necessarily just you - sorry.

I agree with you that she is trying to trivilalize his credentials - which coming from HER is especially ironic. He is fighting back perfectly. A bonus for us is that it's blown up in her face with some of those religious groups whose vote they have had in their back pocket for some time.

[WinkyDink]

12. How about if we discuss nothing?

[rufus dog]

13. Only if you don't frame it properely

For example, "right out of College in the 80's Obama was an active Community Organizer, at the same time Palin was competing in Beauty Pagents trying to find herself..."

Then you can go onto the rest of Obama's resume and you have effectively painted Obama as someone who was focused on helping others while Sarah was focused on herself.

[BlueIdaho]

15. I'm sorry

These fuckers aren't some secret race of supermen and superwomen - Karl Fucking Rove is NOT an evil fucking genius incapable of error - and we have got to find our spines. We are NOT constantly about to step into some elaborate and diabolical trap that will doom our future forever. All this hand wringing has to stop! If anything - the myth of the super republican throws us into a paralysis of analysis then we prepare to lose. Snap out of it.

Do you remember when every boxer was terrified of Mike Tyson? His myth entered the ring half an hour before he ever showed up. Many of his opponents were ready to be knocked out before the bell rang for the first round. Then - someone kicked Mike's fucking ass - knocked him out cold - and THAT was the end of Mike Tyson. Now he is nothing more than a punchline. Why? Because some brave soul refused to buy in to the myth of Mike Tyson and THEY KNEW HE COULD BE BEATEN.

Its time to Woman-UP and Man-UP. Lets go kick the shit out of these fuckers

edit typo

[JeffR]

19. I love this response.

You couldn't have said that better!

[smartvoter]

31. LOL.

I never said they were any such thing. And if you knew me at all you would not think me a hand-wringer afraid of a fight.

I simply saw the arguments emerging about Obama vs. Palin and thought that this could be why the belittling of community organizers was a talking point. Their talking heads were repeating it and it was in Giuliani's speech before it was in Palin's. I thought it was utterly idiotic at the time and they must be completely out of it but if you hop around the Net, and even here, you will see Obama vs. Palin comparisons everywhere. So it hit me that maybe that's what they wanted, and were willing to take the heat on it so they can drive home their message.

This isn't a matter of thinking the other side can't be beaten. Why even go places like this if that's what you think?

My comment had nothing to do with being afraid to fight. Just not being baited into letting them define the debate.

And it's my fault for making a quick observation without spelling it out. I could instantly see why it was taken the way it was when I looked back at my post. I had a thought and posted it without framing it.

[babythunder]

34. Great post!

and it cannot be said enough "Dems stop looking under the bed for Karl Rove boogeymonsters"

[BlueIdaho]

16. Dupe nt.

[justiceischeap]

17. It's pissed off Catholics.

And it's affect can be one of two things... make McShame Catholics stay home or drive more of them to Obama.

You know just because some folks scream "distraction" it's attracting the segment of the population whom it insulted. Do you think they're going to support a party who insulted and laughed at them on National television? I think not.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. Excellent Point

[Island Blue]

21. You're giving the McCain campaign waaaay to much credit.

They can't even Google for god's sake.

[kestrel91316]

22. Oh, so it's just another Rove distraction??

Sorry.

NO.

Why are you so opposed to hitting back and defending our position? Seriously.

[smartvoter]

23. I'm not. I just don't think we should let them make it about

Obama vs. Palin.

Defending community service is separate. I just didn't spell it out far enough. It's my own fault for making a casual observation and not finishing it off.

[Hansel]

24. It was a huge gaffe resulting from a misfire on playing the race card.

They are out of touch and bigoted and had no idea what a can of worms they were opening. You give them far too much credit.

I do believe that they are trying to goad Obama into running against her but she screwed up. Passing up this gaffe because it might be a trap would be throwing away a very big gift. She insulted a huge chunk of the population and she needs to feel that. This is her "bitter remarks" moment only worse because her insult was intentional. She hasn't got a clue about the world outside of her "small town" and she needs to have that crammed down her throat.

This is not about Obama, this is about a community of people that have been insulted by an outsider. She stepped in it big time and it is finally a way to counter the asinine "out of touch with small town voters" meme the media has been using against Obama. Who's out of touch now?

[smartvoter]

26. Look. I think they opened themselves up.

But it wasn't just her. It was in other speeches and all the interviews. I thought they were just idiots at the time but now everywhere I pop around the web I see Obama vs. Palin experience arguments and it hit me that this may have been the goal.

I just think they should be hit for attacking community service without us getting batited in to our #1 versus their #2.

It's not about hiding or not fighting. Just not being played.

And some here think I am overthinking it and maybe I am, but it's what hit me when I saw all these comparisons emerging.

No offense intended.

Peace.

[Hansel]

28. I agree that it was meant to be an Obama vs Palin experience trap.

I didn't watch the convention, but that's right, I did hear everyone was saying it.

No offense at all. In fact, I think we actually agree and maybe I should have read you original post a little closer. I thought you were saying that we shouldn't use this gaffe, but you were just warning about comparing their qualifications. I couldn't agree more.

You're right, let the community organizers go after them. No one on the Dems side should be comparing their qualifications at all. But we can't emphasize too much what an insult this was to community organizers. And I love this opportunity to let the media know that "small town" voters are not that only demographic that matters.

:hi:

[smartvoter]

33. No. With this many misunderstadings, it's pretty much the OP's fault. :-)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

25. "Dick Cheney has more experience than all of them. Look where that's gotten us."

That's gonna be my answer whenever this bullshit experience meme comes up.

[Mz Pip]

27. Small town mayor

versus the 23 year old Black kid.

That's what they are trying to do with this.

[maseman]

30. You frame it as McCain was making fun of community organizers

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. Apparently Thom Hartmann agrees. He stated that the Rovian tactic is to take a

strength and turn it into a weakness. He said that the Repukes will turn "community organizer" into "scary black man rounding up angry blacks for revenge on whitey."

You're right. Let's not dwell on that too much. The faith-based community is fired up and angry. Let them harp on the issue more. Obama is stick to the issues.

[DeadEyeDyck]

35. You are right though

Community organizer sounds like camp counselor. BO should not have let himself get suck into the comparison. No matter how important a role he had, the public sees it about as significant as a president of a home-owners association.

BO needs to know how to pick the fights and bring them to McCain.

And it makes him look small to fight Palin. BO should be fighting McCain.