Should the Obama camp confront the culture wars once and for all?

[mzmolly]

How do we as Democrats confront the fact that some people vote based upon who they relate to in a religious sense? I feel like we need to do more than try to win over some religious voters? I'd also like to confront this issue, head on, without being offensive. For example, I think if we point out that many people voted for Bush because they could relate to his spiritual beliefs "he talked the right talk" that's perhaps a good start?

Possible talking points:

"People voted for the last President because they could relate to his spiritual positions, where did that get us?"

"We're not voting for clergy, we're electing a President."

"The founding fathers knew what they were doing when they noted the importance of a separation of Church and State. Worship where you wish, but vote based upon who is better prepared to lead the Country in the right direction."

Ideas?

[BOSSHOG]

1. "Without being Offensive"

that's where I fail.

Actually you dumbass holy roller pukes are so fucking dumb that you let some yahoo fake cowboy convince you that he's a christian. If ya had any shame in your DNA ya'd never vote again and if ya want to live in a theocracy you'd have left our country a long time ago. But your selfishness and your love of YOUR constitutional liberties ain't gonna let that happen huh?

Maybe a little harsh??

[mzmolly]

2. LOL

:rofl:

I laughed till I snorted!

Harsh? Nah!

[BOSSHOG]

5. Hi Mzmolly

They do all they can to look out for THEIR constitutional liberties while plotting to use the constitution as a weapon against law abiding tax paying citizens they hate because of their "beliefs." Fucking monsters, one and all.

For any lurkers out this AM:

THE CONSTITUTION IS A SHIELD NOT A WEAPON.

[mzmolly]

7. Hi Bosshog!

:hi:

Agreed!

[Nikki Stone1]

3. Uh, yeah. A little harsh. :)

How are ya, BossHog?

[BOSSHOG]

4. Hello My Friend

Doing great now that I've checked the hurricane tracking map and found out that Ike ain't gonna be anally probing us. Spent the last few days cleaning up the limbs and crap that Gustav scattered about. I think a trip to the quarter is in order pretty soon. Hope you are well Nikki!!

[Nikki Stone1]

6. I am SO glad that Ike is bypassing you!

Gotta feel sorry for Cuba though. Good Lord! That poor country: two major hurricanes in two weeks.

Glad to hear that the cleanup is going well. The quarter.......Have to have some cafe and beignets for me. :)

I am well. :hi:

[blondeatlast]

8. Speaking as a Christian who dares to question just about everything...

You have to realize that a lot of these zealots don't question anything. They are not only ignorant, but deadly fearful. I've known more than a few of them and they are damn near unreachable.

"Well, I can't vote for A because he's for abortion."
R: But he supports our contimued presence in Iraq; where thousands of our fathers, brothers, sons, mothers, sisters, and daughters have been killed along with countless children. Isn't getting them out pro-LIFE?
"Well, I can't vote for A because he's pro-abortion."

That isn't a joke--I've had a nearly word-for-word conversation like that with one of them in 2004.

From a humanitarian standpoint, I love the idea--but for practical political purposes, they are never going to vote the way we will. They are uneducated, easily led--and literally scared to death of things like "getting the gay," that Democrats sacrifice babies, and that we are here to bring about the Apocolypse. I'm NOT exaggerating the mindset much at all, either.

So to put it simply--no; not in an election year, at least. We need to concentrate on the middle; I know it pisses off a lot of Democrats, but the biggest voting bloc is there. That's where precious resources need to go.

So far, I think the Obama/Biden campaign has done a great job of it, too.

[Chan790]

9. Oh how I know this.

They used to get righteously pissed off when I'd say "Jesus would support the anti-death penalty candidate, A, 100% of the time."

"But but but A is pro-choice."

"right..."

"Jesus wouldn't support the baby-killer!"

"Um...yeah. Jesus spoke against war, oppression, poverty, murder, pride, avarice,...no abortion in that list. I guess the unborn just weren't a priority."

[mzmolly]

10. My fear is that they win a few in the middle

with their religious rhetoric? Some Catholics for example vote primarily based on the abortion issue.

Thanks for your insightful post Blondeatlast :hi:

[blondeatlast]

12. Catholics are definitely reachable (I'm sorta half one; dad was and never was excommunicated)

They abhor the death penalty and are unhappy with the war and tend to be more working and middle class, so economic issues are big with them.

I know a lot of Mormons who are very unhappy with the Bush administration (really, really unhappy) and again, they don't like the DP or the war--and with large families, are tending to get hit by economic woes. I think they can be won over as well; Utah is trending to the left lately. SLC has a very popular Dem mayor and he's a rising Dem star.

[Raffi Ella]

11. Definitely!

This is a secular Nation!

Yes, religious people have a voice in government but anything outside the mainstream ie Gods plan for the middle east, the rapture, jews being punished for not being saved, abortion being outlawed - Look I think Christianity as an institution is a dangerous organization when used for political purposes and we have come to find out that that is EXACTLY what is happening.

When we have Bush/McCain pandering to the Falwell crowd and the rest of the nation feeling terrorized by that voting block to the point WE can't even TALK about the issues lest we stir them up then WE, as a nation, HAVE A PROBLEM.

Separation of Church and State needs to be discussed in depth and defined altogether! RELIGIOUS beliefs have no place in the law of the land. Otherwise the American Government is no different than the Taliban of Afghanistan.