I'm just gonna say it: We still live in a racist culture.

[cali]

It's just myopic or worse to pretend that we don't. If Obama were white I believe he would be 10 points ahead. And yeah, I believe that America is more racist than sexist as a whole. A white woman was on a presidential ticket nearly a quarter of a century ago. Until Obama no person of color had ever been on a major ticket.

Racism is by far the biggest obstacle to Obama winning. And though I think he has an excellent chance of winning, denial of the extent to which this is a racist culture is avoiding the obvious.

[BklynChick]

1. obviously. who's pretending we don't.

[Solomon]

41. Are you kidding, with all the racism deniers around here. For months

the media has been asking why doesn't he have a bigger lead, as though there is some other reason.

I even heard a pundit say, "well, you know about 30% of people aren't going to vote for him because of race, so that means race has nothing to do with it." WTF!?

Apparently, the only racist people in America today are black people. And to top it all off, white people can say racist things but still not be racist.

[BlooInBloo]

44. +1

[okieinpain]

75. +2

[the_real_38]

78. Obama was leading in the polls a week ago ...

... and now he's losing after the GOP convention. This didn't happen because of racism - if that were the case, he wouldn't have had the lead in the first place.

Obama made a big mistake not selecting Hillary Clinton as VP. Getting elected president is about building voting coalitions. JFK and LBJ weren't best buds by a long shot, but Kennedy knew he needed Johnson to win crucial states. And Obama needed Clinton's supporters and her appeal to the middle. Obama-Clinton couldn't have lost. BO was arrogant to think that he could win any way that he chose, and didn't make the crucial compromise. Now, he's never been able to build a big lead, and he's opened the door to the Palin selection by McCain, which has worked better than the right could have ever dreamed.

Obama is having problems meeting his fund-raising targets after dropping out of public financing. So he's having to spend time raising money that could go to campaigning. He moved toward the center/right on FISA, abortion, and faith-based initiatives a week after being nominated, which alienated many in his base. His trip to Berlin was seen by many voters as arrogant - he was behaving as though he had already won. He hadn't, and he hasn't.

Sorry, but BO has made some serious mistakes in his campaign. As a result, he's lost his lead. He doesn't have time to engage in whining and crying about racism (and besides, black racism against whites is a bigger problem in this country), he needs to get out there, regain the initiative, and turn this thing around.

[AspenRose]

42. Check out post #18 for starters

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6998727

[babylonsister]

2. Agreed, but I also think it's gotten a lot better. The youth give me hope,

because race is not an issue for many of them. It's their damned parents! :hide:

[Bubbha Jo]

24. As long as people are still alive that grew up before

the civil rights movements and were taught they were superior because of their white skin, they'll be a lot of racism. As they die off, things will improve.

It was a whole different world before the civil rights, peace, and women's rights movements in the 60s/70s. People always have a tendency to crave how things were in their youth, no matter how old.

Most 50 and up will probably vote McCain for that very reason (though my 70s mom is wavering against him! Yea!). The key to getting Obama elected is to get the younger adult voters out to the polls!

[okieinpain]

76. yes young people do deal with race a lot better. so I guess it's

key in getting them to vote.

[Curtland1015]

3. We live on a racist PLANET. But try not to worry too much.

While there are racists everywhere, most of them are concentrated (no offense to my southern DU friends!) in red states that weren't going for Dems no matter who was running.

[Colobo]

4. We do, but we will prevail.

[nini]

5. yes.... and it's obvious

but it's getting some dents put in it.

[qwlauren35]

54. Cracks in the Ceiling, actually!

Oprah is testimony - black women often get to the top before black men, because a lot of white people are more frightened of letting a black man get that far.

That's part of why this is so phenomenal.

It's also part of the reason Obama doesn't do the "angry" thing, and smiles, and takes photo ops.

[flamingdem]

6. THIS is why we must get out there and do face to face contact to get votes as well as

phone banking. We need to encourage people who have been trained to be at best - unsure about voting for a candidate of color.

[TwilightGardener]

7. The fact that the same people who were supposedly disturbed by

Obama's lack of experience and his newness to the national scene have now embraced Palin, a woman who is a relative unknown, to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency after less than two weeks, shows the difference between black and white. Obama has faced every test, every question he could possibly encounter on the campaign trail, and has an open-book life and career, and he's older than other Presidents have been, and yet he's still "new and scary"--that's 100% skin color.

[nam78_two]

63. Bingo

Some of these people are so fucking transparent :eyes:.

[Frances]

8. But racism does not explain it all

Americans chose the first Bush over Dukakis, W over Gore and Kerry. It's a demonatization of the "other" thing on many levels. It's an appeal to the basest of emotions: to fear and lack of self-confidence. It's a stick with the bully and he won't attack you. It's an anti-Geek, anti-intellectual, anti-rational, anti-elite thing. It's a return to the Age of Faith and Superstition and loyalty to the lord of the manor who will torture anyone who questions him.

[Sensitivity]

9. Give the Rethugs some credit: They made transformative move and delivered effective propaganda

We were on top but did not destroy them when we could -- at our convention we almost destroyed ourselves.

[EstimatedProphet]

10. Yeah, we do, and we fool ourselves into thinking we don't

One thing that always cracks me up is when I hear white people talking about how things are equal now. That's like asking frat boys about whether sexism still exists - it may not be the best group to give an unbiased opinion.

[Boz]

11. That has been the tough part in discussing Michigan

Plain and simple it has been hard not to say we lose Michigan because of the racist this year.

Our power the democrats power bases are in the urban cities in Michigan, the Repugs rural.

The one fact that will lose us Michigan, Michigan has been squeezed the most on job losses.

Cities will vote for Obama strongly across the board, many races, creeds and colors.

Rural Michigan whites wont because they think one thing, if you make a black man president he will only help more black people get jobs.

Thats it, will they admit it publicly will they say it openly in polls, almost without exclusion, absolutely not.

They ll say its this or that as their reason, but ultimately its racism at the heart and that rural white base will neutralize the strong power bases of the cities.

[wvbygod]

27. That's it? No evidence, data or facts to back it up?

Where, at least, is it written in stone that the rural white base are the racists and bigots
while everyone else are not?

[Boz]

31. Obviously its a generalization, but stereotypes are based in reality.

And you have raised an even more important fact.

People have made the web god and truth. If it doesnt have a citation it doesnt exist in the real world, good luck with that.

[Romulox]

53. Not based on fact though; John Kerry won Michigan by only **3 points** in 2004.

In other words, Obama is about as popular in Michigan as Kerry was. You see racism in this because you want to. :hi:

[Romulox]

56. LOL on using "stereotypes are based in reality" to decry racism, btw!

The irony is delicious.

[OneGrassRoot]

32. I don't think region in general has anything to do with it any more...

it's rather pervasive.

And there are all forms of racism and bigotry...it goes many ways.

But, I think what is obviously at play in this particular election is white-black racism.


Edited 'cause I can't spell today.

[Romulox]

52. That's dumb; Michigan has the WORST economy in the nation, and Obama has not focused on it.

Obama = free trader; John McCain = free trader.

Kerry (also free trader) only won Michigan by 3 points in 2004. Was Michigan's lukewarm support for Kerry also "racist"? :eyes:

[Courtesy Flush]

12. Is anyone denying this?

To me, this election appears to be an easy slam-dunk choice. I know that there will always be people who will vote for Republicans no matter what, but for Obama to not have a huge lead, especially after Palin's introduction, can hardly be explained by factors other than race.

I really worry about this country.

[wvbygod]

30. Is anyone proving it?

In science, including Political Science, it takes data or evidence to prove something
as factual. Lack of denial is not evidence.

[bdamomma]

13. sure, that is a given fact.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

20. what a steaming pile of shit. take it back to freeperville.

When 10% of Ohio DEM primary voters admit that race is a factor, when numerous voters in Appalachia say they won't vote for a black man, that's fucking strong evidence that racism is alive and playing an active role.

And what crap that whites are voting for Obama because of guilt. Go back under the slimy bridge where you belong

[AspenRose]

23. They can't help themselves

They can fly under the radar until racism is brought up....and then they out themselves.

It's what they do; it's who they are. They can't help it.

[OneGrassRoot]

26. I don't get it...

First, Cali, I COMPLETELY agree with you.

I'm confronting people every single day about this. They cloak their racism in all the fundie right-wing BS we've seen for the last year rather than say, "I don't like him because he's BLACK!"

What I don't get is, the vast majority of these people are OVERT racists. At least, they always WERE. I grew up around it and have been immersed in it my entire life.

These are the "call a spade a spade" people, it's "librul pussies who are always politically correct."

Yet suddenly, they're being all PC and not saying EXACTLY what they want to say.

AND, it's a double whammy for them and they've gotta be bustin' at the seams: not only is he BLACK, but he has a "muslim/terrorist's name" !!!

Holy shit, a racist/bigot's wet dream. They have spent so much energy tearing him down for every reason OTHER than the issues, yet they won't come out and say it.

I respond to emails daily, have face-to-face encounters (with people on the verge of threatening me physically), on local messageboards filled with wingnuts.

But they never answer. I become invisible as soon as I ask why they're being all politically correct when we both know it's about race. They back down and walk away, telling me I'm going to hell.

The simmering hatred based on racism is especially dangerous right now, in my opinion, and needs to be brought out into the open, not swept under the carpet. Very dangerous, IMHO.

[wvbygod]

37. numerous voters in Appalachia

Here we go again. I believe there was one person interviewed during the primary
by an Obama interview team that said something to that effect.

If you are letting that one person speak for numerous voters in Appalachia, then you
may want to chase the bigots out of your mirror too.

[AspenRose]

48. *sigh* We've gone over this before

Don't you think that if one person was willing to admit that on TV, that there are many more who feel the same way but aren't willing to admit it in front of millions of people?

It's tacky and insincere to use projection to accuse people of being racist because they happen to have real-life encounters with these people every day.

NO ONE is accusing YOU of being a racist just because you happen to live in Appalachia. And TFAR didn't even MENTION being in Appalachia; YOU did.

[TwilightGardener]

22. Yeah, OK. The rural counties that Obama lost to Hillary 20-80 in states

like PA and WV were due to the fact that they loved Obama but just didn't feel enough "white guilt" to vote for him. Whatever.

[BlooInBloo]

45. I hope you enjoy your stay!

[renie408]

55. Thank you for so brilliantly illustrating the OP's point. You have deftly portrayed the racism and

ignorance rampant in this country.

I imagine you have some sheets to wash, don't let us keep you from it.

[Egnever]

14. Of course we do

Hell the first thing many of my black friends said to me when i first started talking to them about obama was "we cant vote for him he will just get shot". Thats pretty indicative of a high level of racism still being out there.

The sweet thing is I think we are going to overcome it. If we do overcome it Obama will advance race relations 20 years in 4 IMHO. It will be the greatest thing for this melting pot of a country that will have happened in my lifetime.

Its still a huge force out there but I think we got lucky with an extrodinary candidate who also happens to be black. So extraordinary in fact that he may just be able to get over that hump.

Fierce urgency of now indeed. The conditions are just right to be able to pull this off right now and if we miss the opportunity I am not sure we will be able to pull it off again for another 20 years.If we do though I think by the end of his term the glass ceiling will be pretty much shattered.

[seabeyond]

15. well, duh. and sexist. and it has escalated upward the last decade instead

of progressively getting better 60's thru the 90's.

[Enrique]

17. yes but progress is happening

a great example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6998156

[PBS Poll-435]

18. Boo Fucking Hoo

And you are wrong. The biggest obstacle to Obama winning isn't "racism."

It is the reluctance of the people currently in charge to give up power.

[AspenRose]

25. Um, ok

:freak:

[PBS Poll-435]

28. Huh?

:wtf:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Let me guess, you must be white. nt

[AspenRose]

33. Exactly

You get it

(Tim Wise ought to be required reading for whites before posting on race issues @ DU)

[PBS Poll-435]

35. None of your god damned business

I just refuse to write off this election in this manner.

We could still win, right?

[AspenRose]

40. Re-read the OP please

She's not writing anything off. She's being REALISTIC.

"And though I think he has an excellent chance of winning, denial of the extent to which this is a racist culture is avoiding the obvious."

It's not the only factor, but it is a major one, and to ignore it is dangerous folly.

[renie408]

47. I think we WILL win...but not by pretending that racism isn't a very LARGE issue in this election. n

[renie408]

46. You're white, aren't you? n/t

[ismnotwasm]

19. Yup

We sure do. One of the problems with racism and sexism, is that it's so "normal" it goes unrecognized and so is accepted. When bullshit gets called on it, there is a whole slew of people who scream "PC police" or some such nonsense.

[protect our future]

21. I totally agree. n/t

[mtnsnake]

34. You are 100%

right.

IMO, it's the biggest, maybe the only, obstacle to securing this election, and I agree with you that Obama would be 10 points ahead at this point in time if he were white. I think he's one of only a handful of once-in-a-lifetime candidates, but racism is alive and well.

Unfortunately, I've already had several instances of people surprising the hell out of me by telling me they were afraid of seeing a black person become President. Most of these were elderly people who told me this, especially elderly women who were the most concerned. They would almost whisper it to me as they said it. The reason I was so surprised was because these people seemed to be such sweet, sincere people before they expressed their reservations about Obama.

[fed_up_mother]

36. The "Muslim" charge greatly exacerbates any latent racism

If he had grown up in a christian church, I think he'd be farther ahead.

Throw in his pastor's statements, and whitey is afraid of Obama. (I'm white, I can say that!)

[backscatter712]

49. The Muslim charge is a cover for closet racism.

A lot of the people who fling that sort of shit don't really believe Obama's a Muslim.

They just do it because they don't want to openly call Obama a n****r.

[fed_up_mother]

51. I KNOW people who have adopted

African American babies and don't have a racist bone in their bodies when it comes to black folks.

They hate muslims, however. They're all radical. The Koran teaches them to want to destroy us. Blah, blah, blah. Obama might not be a muslim, but he's not going to get tough with them. blah, blah, blah.

I think there's more of that going on than you may realize.

[OneGrassRoot]

59. Damn Straight. That's it right there! n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

62. I agree with you that the hatred of muslims is there...

absolutely. Racists are racists are racists.

But they know -- I firmly believe they know -- he was raised Christian. The muslim thing is a distraction. I mean emails were flying fast and furious from the same people contradicting themselves: one would say he's a muslim, the next would say he's a radical black Christian.

Bottom line, the most damning element in this is the racism.

[BeyondGeography]

38. Being a Democrat in the USA is by far the biggest obstacle

We lose all the time (7 of the last 10 elections), good white men with superior qualifications and better plans for America going down to a half-assed candidates like George W. Bush. Just a hunch, but as many people who are voting against Obama because of his race are coming out to vote because of it. Let's not fall into this trap.

[brentspeak]

39. Sure, racism is a factor (not the only one, though).

But Obama's supporters during the primary insisted that racism would not prevent him from winning a presidential election. The confidence in that earlier belief seems to be crumbling a bit.

[AuntPatsy]

43. I never doubted it for a second, america's dark secret is no longer so secret...

[Raffi Ella]

50. When Hillary said this y'all called HER a racist but now?

You and other Obama supporter's say it with abandon and indeed agree that he has a problem...it's a "reality" -

How ironic.

I'm gettin' really sick of the whining and hand wringing over this. Hillary is out doing what she can so will Bill and so is Rendell and other's - HILLARY supporter's- and yet here you sit WAHhhhhhh America is racist!!!! as if it's some new revelation. OF COURSE America is racist but he won the nomination! Obviously we can get the vote out and overcome it, right?? I mean that's what you said during the primaries. Something to the effect of "we can't let racism stop us from progress" or more often " YES WE CAN!!!!"


I, a Hillary supporter who believed all along that this would be a MAJOR worry in the general, am working my ass off to get out the vote for Obama in the very red Good Ol' Boy State of GA. - I hope you first string fervent Obama supporter's are doing all YOU can to help us out here in these states where Obama is having a trouble "connecting" as the msm so delicately puts it.


I'm sorry for my angry reaction to this thread. I just don't wanna hear this crap - Get off your ass and get out the vote. That's all we can do at this point.

[SeaLyons]

57. Bravo!!! n/t

[abbiehoff]

61. I didn't see any whining.

Racism is surely a factor, but I think the biggest problem is the probability of the election being stolen.

In a fair election, Obama wins.

I know people who will not vote for a black man, but I get the impression that they will stay home rather than vote for McSame.

[AspenRose]

66. Question

How do you know folks here aren't getting out the vote? Do you know them all personally?

I don't see any purpose or point in your post except to rant ("Catharsis?") and rehash the primary. And that's your prerogative, I guess.
:shrug: We are all Obama supporters now, remember?

[paulk]

67. yes

:thumbsup:

[Shakespeare]

68. Hillary was using that fact as a reason NOT to have Obama as the nominee.

HUGE difference, and utterly exploits racism to use it as a reason NOT to have Obama. And she was rightly hammered for doing so.

Fucking pathetic.

[SeaLyons]

73. No, you're wrong,,,

Hillary and Bill knew that Obama was going to have great difficulty in winning this election due to racism, and their effort to bring this fact forward was NOT exploiting racism. It was a FACT.

[Shakespeare]

74. No, I'm not wrong.

And yes, they most certainly exploited it. It doesn't make either of them racists, just opportunists. I utterly ADORED the Clintons up until then. I few them from a much more.....cynical perspective now.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

77. Calling someone a bitch while defending someone else from being called a racist makes my head hurt.

:shrug:

[elkston]

71. The problem is, what can he do? He is born black. He cannot change that.

Its not fair that this should be against him when he is doing everything else right.

[Romulox]

58. If racism is the excuse this time, what explains 2004, 2000, 1980, 1984, 1968, 1972, 1952, 1956????

[qwlauren35]

60. If we could see faces...

it's highly likely that the people who keep saying "take the gloves off" are white and not thinking in terms of the prevalent racism in America,

but the people who are nodding at Obama's strategy understand how quickly the race card will get played if Obama even LOOKS angry. Concerned, puzzled... but not angry.

A black man has to go outside of the box to win an election in a "white world". The traditional tactics just won't work.

That's why he keeps saying it's up to "you"... we African-Americans have to convince our brethren to VOTE! And not to be pessimistic. The other racial and ethnic groups have the harder task of persuading THEIR people to vote for OBAMA, A BLACK MAN, because his message is on point, his ideas have merit, and he is likely to bring positive change. And AGAINST McCain, even though he's NOT black, because his message is a lie, his ideas are old, and he won't bring the changes we need.

Obama keeps saying that "we" have to talk to family, friends, neighbors, co-workers. And WE have to understand that WE may have more clout with our family, friends, neighbors and co-workers than HE does.

Obama gets it... hopefully we will eventually.

[OneGrassRoot]

64. I agree with you...

it would be suicide for him to engage it during the election. That's why it's our job, as citizens.

My two cents. :)

[abbiehoff]

65. Common perception is that a black man has to be 100% better

... or maybe it's 200% better than a white man, to be taken seriously.

Fortunately for us, Obama is at least 1000% (or perhaps infinitely) better than his opponent.

[krkaufman]

70. Another way of looking at it.... we were drunk on racism for hundreds of years ...

... and, presuming the 1960s civil rights act was the end of the binge, it's still going to take quite a while for the racist hangover to subside.