This is what baffles me - Obama on Olberman and McCain "lying"...

[HardWorkingDem]

Last night Keith Olberman point blank asked Barack why so many people dance around the word "lying" when it comes to McCain/Palin. He was asking what is the fear in the word "lying."

And what did Obama do? He nuanced it and never used the phrase and went on about spin et cetera.

We went through this in both 2000 and 2004. No one will use the word "lying." Obama's opponents are not just lying, they are fucking blatantly lying and someone in the Obama campaign needs to call on it.

And someone just can't "nuance" the word.

[marylanddem]

1. I didn't hear the interview

But they need to start showing some freaking anger - I don't care if Obama is black or not - he has to show some emotion

[SeaLyons]

2. he sure as hell does...

he cannot continue to smile or laugh and just have faith in the american people. He has got to toughen up. Get mad.

[SeaLyons]

3. he sure as hell does...

he cannot continue to smile or laugh and just have faith in the american people. He has got to toughen up. Get mad.

[HardWorkingDem]

6. He looked really tired.....

The other thing that struck me was how tired he looked. Not that I'm blaming him for that. The guy is probably running on fumes most of the time.

But I'd love to have seen him just say the word "liar." I think maybe if he had then the media would have focused on that and then looked a bit closer at what the McCain people are saying and then discover they are lies.

[Levgreee]

4. there is no point in him getting that sort of quote out. It is better just to give the information

and have people connect the easy dots on their own.

Unfortunately that's how politics is.

[TwilightGardener]

5. Most politicians don't use the term "lying" or call each other liars.

It screams of losing and desperation, a la Bob Dole snapping, "Stop lying about my record!" That's why he doesn't do it--once you take it down to that level, you're rhetorically scraping bottom. You can say they're not being honest about this or that, or that they're being misleading, but I wouldn't go there with the "L" word very often.

[HardWorkingDem]

11. And that is why he needs to use it...

I agree the word is not used often and nor should it. However, I think he needs to state the obvious for a couple of reasons. One is that the McCain campaign is lying. Also, I imagine if he were to call McCain/Palin liars it would cause the media to focus on their lies and find out Obama is right. Also, it would be a burr under McCain's rear end and hopefully start to bring that famous temper out into the open.

[AndyA]

7. A spokesperson for the Obama camp called it a lie yesterday.

There was a thread about it here at DU, you might try searching for it.

Here it is:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6985625&mesg_id=6985625

[HardWorkingDem]

12. A "spokesperson" or surrogate does not even come close...

to having the impact of Obama doing it himself. Like I stated, in the Olberman interview, Olberman asked him a straight forward question and he danced around it.

[AndyA]

14. I agree with what you're saying.

Obama and Biden both need to put their foot down and say lying is politics as usual, and change cannot come about when candidates lie to the American people in their ads.

Obama is not the forceful personality I would have hoped for regarding this.

But still, it's better than just ignoring it. At least it was mentioned for the record.

[dennis4868]

8. But just like in 2000 and 2004...

we don't want to turn off some voters :sarcasm:

[gateley]

9. He used it in his new TV spot, though -- and it was perfect because

it was quoting The Nation and not having to say it himself.

I don't think we want our Presidential nom to come out and use that word. It's inflammatory and we can just hear the other side using it against us.

[GeorgeGist]

10. The answer is obvious ...

lying is a tactic of the willful ignorance strategy.

[Johonny]

13. I think the nature of the question pretty much answers it

KO asked the question in a way and then repeated the theme in the show exactly so Obama didn't have to say yes without the viewer pretty much know McCain and Palin our liars. Basically it sounds better for the press to call someone a liar than it does to come from a politician.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

15. Once people just start calling each other liars, the conversation usually degrades pretty fast

You're a liar! No, you are! You're a bigger one! No, you're a bigger one!

I think it is more acceptable to say "lying" the action because then you are not labelling the actual person, but one can still draw the same conclusion - Lies and the Lying Liars who Tell Them as Franken says.

I think it is ok for surrogates to use the word, but usually couched with "they" are lying.

"That is untrue" "That is patently false" gets the meaning across without becoming totally inflammatory

Others:

distorting
fabrication
made-up out of whole cloth
a fantasy
gross distortion of reality
not in the fact-based world

I think if a candidate is lying and says "I saved the American taxpayers from funding the Bridge to Nowhere"

and the opponent says "Well, actually, you kept the money and didn't save taxpayers a dime" we would all get the picture without the term being tossed.

If you say "Liar! you kept the money and didn't save taxpayers a dime" most voters would get caught up with the insult and miss the fact.

Rarely used for a reason.

[VolcanoJen]

18. EXACTLY

See my post below, for another take on this. :-)

You're a smart one, Phoebe!

[VolcanoJen]

16. But see, McCain and his goons are trying to pick a fight.

Obama knows this. He knows they're trying, purposefully, to goad him into calling them liars. They're ready and armed for the moment he does this, and I imagine they're surprised he hasn't gone there yet. This has been the way of practicing Republican presidential politics since the days of Nixon, and the "pick a fight" practice was honed and perfected by the Atwater/Rove types that are currently running the McCain/Palin campaign.

Obama needs to not fight back, he needs to pick his own fight. I thought he took a strong step in the right direction last night by telling Palin to stop mocking the Constitution, which is essentially and at its core an attack on her patriotism. He needs to put a stick in their eye and make them come running after him. He knows the way this game is played, and trust me, the GOP is a little more than concerned that he's not acting like your typical Democratic presidential candidate.

That's likely because he doesn't have morons like Susan Estrich and Bob Shrum running his campaign.

[Overseas]

17. We refrain because Dems usually source our critiques.

The Republicans out and out lie. Like the Earmark Champ pretending she isn't one.

But if we accused them of lying, we'd have the facts all lined up to show the truth.

If they accused us of lying, they would fake the evidence to back it up. Two days later, we'd uncover the facts behind the faked evidence but the false accusation of lying would be out there already.

That's what Republicans do now. Tell lies for effect at the rallies and on TV, through the generous speech-clip sound bytes the Republican controlled TV news gives them. When the lies are corrected a day later, that's buried in earnest articles in newspapers.

So maybe it is okay that the word is off limits. We'd be earnest in using it, they'd just slam it around all over the place. That would also be their strategy of taking away its punch. If we opened the door, they'd send a flood of lying accusations through to weaken the impact of the accusation.

[ElboRuum]

19. Has 'Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire' ever gotten anything done for you personally?

It hasn't for me.

Just sayin'.

[budkin]

20. This has always infuriated me... a lie is a lie.

Why do Politicians dance around it?

[The Stranger]

21. If Obama loses, you can look to this exchange as to why.

He is becoming like the rest of the Democrats all of the sudden -- fearful, indecisive, unable to say what everybody on the mother fucking planet knows, and wants -- is begging -- someone in power to say.