Gibson's 'Bush Doctrine' Question Was Crap

[the48er]

First, let me be clear: If I ran the world, 20 million or so Repiglicans would be in prison with no chance of parole. Sarah Palin would absolutely be among those prisoners. I have for 40 years hated those profoundly evil motherfuckers with every fiber of my being.

HOWEVER ...

VIRTUALLY NO ONE talks about the "Bush Doctrine." For several very good reasons, virtually no one uses that phrase. Most of us have spent years screaming our proverbial lungs out against Bush's policy of preemptive war. That's what we've called it: "preemptive war." That is the locution Chuckles should have used.

I refuse to rejoice about catching Palin via a slightly off-kilter locution when she should instead be crucified and disemboweled (figuratively speaking, of course) via the simple, unvarnished truth -- stated so that every moderately sane American (a dwindling demographic, to be sure) can grasp it at once.

[BeyondGeography]

1. Sarah Palin is crap

Is this is the kind of thing that gets people to see that, so much the better.

[seabeyond]

2. of course i know preemptive strike, and i am on du all the time. i did not know bush doctrine

so i agree. i was thinking how i would answer. i would have without qualm asked, "what is bush doctrine?" instead of trying to bullshit and look stupid. when he said, i would have told him of course i know preemptive strike and here is how i feel.....

so i guess, even if it was bullshit, it told us something regardless.

[OneGrassRoot]

50. I think that's the bigger picture here...

Those who will be loyal to her because of partisanship won't admit it, but independents and other undecideds who may have been drawn to her previously because she is "real" (or has been crafted as appearing real), will likely be turned off.

This interview showed nothing genuine. It showed she was faking it...the whole time.

It's the overall image of the interview -- even just the first segment -- that created this "deer in the headlights" image and her being in way over her head.

[seabeyond]

54. exactly. her saying other vps havent met head of state, and just blatantly wrong. she had no clue

if it was true or not, just throws it out there. what kind of lying is that. all these things are beyond, more indicative of basic character. but one cant take the interview on face value. that is the feel i get from du'ers.

[Lugnut]

125. Charlie should've asked her to name them.

I would've loved to hear that answer.

[paparush]

114. Pemeditated, as in murder. Preemptive suggests a perceived threat.

[samuraiguppy]

133. I agree n/t

[nc4bo]

3. If she wants to hold 2nd highest office in the country (possibly the 1st) she needs to get a gotdamn

clue.

This is proof that her previous employment as moosehunter, hockeymom, average college student, fiscally irresponsible tenure as mayor of Wasilla and 2 short years as Gov of Alaska has NOT sufficiently prepared her to hold high office.



ETA: spellcheck a couple times. this post got me overexcited :S

[tekisui]

4. I knew what the B*sh Doctrine is. I think most

people who pay attention do. It was hie "legal" argument of pre-emption and it was a very big deal.

She should know. Senators know what it is. VP candidates damn sure should know.

[the48er]

19. So Did I ... After I Thought for a Second

So did lots of people ... after they thought for a second.

What that says to me -- very loudly and unmistakably -- is that in that instance Chuckles failed to do his job.

Any "journalist" who says "equine creature" when all he or she means is "horse" is no journalist at all.

[Solomon]

37. Are you people nuts! I knew about the Bush Doctrine but

I'm a well read lawyer and keep up with current events pretty well. I realize the question would have stumped a lot of people who are not paying attention, but Jeeeee-zuuuuuzzz. not somebody trying to be Vice-President. There's is simply no excuse whatsoever for her not to know what he was talking about. She's trying to be Vice president for chrissakes!

I mean, damn, get a handle. Have we sunk sooo low that we really expect aand want our leaders to be just as stupid as we are!

Jeeeez. I can't believe it.

[madmom]

65. that's why it worked for bush, they set the bar low!

[soulcore]

75. I agree.

I'm a 28 year old, self-employed, college dropout, and even I knew what the Bush Doctrine was.

Hell, looks like I'm more qualified to be VEEP than her, I balance my own checkbook!

[NotThisTime]

83. Couldn't agree with you more, she's not running for PTA, she's running for VICE PRESIDENT!

If she doesn't know the policy under which this government has been run for six years, she has no business running for VP, it's that simple. Not to mention her own war mongering. Or, that she can see Russia from Alaska, for the love of God, that gives you ZERO credibility in foreign policy.

What, the people on DU, or some of them have greater foreign policy knowledge than the person running for office? That's pretty sad.

[Cosmocat]

115. Absolutely !!!

I have to give Gibson credit, it was a question that required a definitive answer, but not on the first batch of flash cards her handlers have been quizing her on - and ANYONE who has been at the level a VP SHOULD BE AT should have know it.

[LooseWilly]

48. Unless the subject in question

is equestrianism.

In that case, a subject who can't work with the term 'equestrianism', or 'equine creature' is one who doesn't know what he/she is talking about on the subject.

In the arena of politics, Bush Doctrine really shouldn't be a hard concept to work with. In the area of policy, it should be a relative 'no brainer'.
I knew what it was, because I remember my jaw dropping when Bushies trotted it out to justify invading a country that meant NO imminent threat to us. (Iraq).
I'm pretty near Palin's age. A little younger in fact. If I knew, and she didn't... it pretty much means to me that she hasn't been paying attention. If she was mayor of "the second largest town in Alaska", as Rove sound bites would say it... when the Bushies used this explanation for invading an oil rich country... and her only response to Gibson is "I believe that George Bush was trying to defend Americans from Muslim extremists who were hell bent on..." ... I'm sorry- she's DUMB or she simply HASN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION.
I was driving a taxi, and I was able to keep up with the 'Bush DOctrine'. She was in politics, and she couldn't??? And you're going to suggest that she should be given a pass for this??
Why is ignorance ok in politicians?

I mean, I'm just saying. We don't think its ok for scientists to not know new theories... or for soldiers to not know about new weaponry.... why is political theory knowledge not expected of politicians that want to apply for a job in the big leagues?

[Arkansas Granny]

78. Most people who follow politics at all know what the Bush Doctrine is.

Most of them would also be able to tell you the main points of the Powell Doctrine and well as the Rumsfeld Doctrine. We aren't talking ancient history here, these are policies that have directly affected us under the Bush administration.

She flunked that one, big time.

[Blue_Roses]

53. I pay extremely close attention and feel very informed, but I too had to think a second

about the question. I've heard the terminology and I knew "preemptive war" but you don't hear the pundits saying, "Bush Doctrine". I know it sounds like I'm taking up for Palin's stupidity, but actually it's all the rest of us here at DU I'm taking up for. I've seen several posts that say, "anyone should know that is paying attention," or "if you follow the war you should know." but many here just live their everyday life, struggling and checking in to keep tabs on how things are going nationwide. I think those of us at DU are political junkies, so yeah, we probably should know, but we're still just your average Joe or Sue;)

As for Palin, she should have known, because as the public watches these interviews, it's not so much to see what they know as much as it is to learn. (I mean those interviews with people like Biden, Obama,etc) Palin's defensiveness was a turnoff in itself. Her whole demeanor screamed not qualified.

[closeupready]

117. I too knew what it was. There is NO EXCUSE for a VP candidate NOT to know that!@

None.

[CJCRANE]

5. Gibson described the Bush Doctrine

inaccurately as "anticipatory self-defense", that seems to me an unnecessarily euphemistic way of saying "pre-emptive war".

On edit: And of course I know what the Bush Doctrine is, and in fact am aware that the policy was drafted by Philip Zelikow, who coincidentally happens to be an associate of Condi Rice and Chairman of the 9/11 Commission.

[Motown_Johnny]

6. Wrong... it is a common term which anyone who has been paying attention is familiar with

a Governor not knowing that term is unforgivable. A Vice Presidential candidate not knowing that term is Twilight Zone material.

[Labors of Hercules]

20. yep.

:thumbsup:

[Kutjara]

7. The only time I've ever used the term "Bush Doctrine,"...

...it was in reference to Chimpy's preternatural ability to utterly fuck up everything he touches, without fail. His actions are so consistently and single-mindedly inept that they can't be the result of mere happenstance, and must therefore be part of some conscious plan. That plan is the "Bush Doctrine" in all its glory.

Starting wars of aggression and then prosecuting them with all the strategic flair of a drunk trying to remember the rules of Risk is just one part of the majesty that is Shrub.

By this standard, Gibson's question should have been, "So do you intend to continue the current Administration's policy of shitting on everything it touches?"

[road2000]

35. Average voter no. Candidate yes.

I can't say I've ever used the term without sarcasm. But it's simple enough. Maybe Sarah can plead youthful innocence?

Seriously, anybody with even a casual knowledge of politics should know what it is. I would have to include a governor and national candidate among them.

[AlinPA]

8. Anyone "with international and foreign policy experience" knows what it is. nt

[Honeycombe8]

9. Repigs are okay with stupid leaders. The rest of the country is not. (We see you)

Everyone in politics knows what the Bush Doctrine is. Sounds like you didn't. But then, you're not in politics, are you? You're not running to be the 2nd most important leader in the free world, are you?

Stupid is stupid. We expect our leaders to be aware of the various doctrines of the world leaders, esp. our own.

(BTW, we seeeeeeeee yooooooouuuuuuu. :hide: )

[the48er]

38. Laziness Does Not Become You

Look, IA500: Do your fucking homework before you libel people who don't deserve it. All it takes is a few quick clicks to find out in great detail just exactly who and what I am.

Do your homework.

You owe me an apology.

[MrModerate]

10. It was a bit of a gotcha . . .

I mean, who'd really expect the veep candidate to be up on the core justification for the Iraq war articulated a FULL 6 YEARS AGO!

In any case, it wasn't her ignorance of the terminology (which, as you point out, has disappeared like so many really stupid Bush ideas), but her recently-eletroshocked response, which indicates that she either is so overloaded with flash-card knowledge crammed down her throat over the past week that she can't process anything that doesn't include the code words they drilled into her, or that she's so shallow and inexperienced that she can't synthesize the knowledge dump in any meaningful way.

Or maybe both.

Crap question notwithstanding, can any sentient being seeing that interview maintain that she's qualified to be vice president without knowing they're lying through their teeth?

[yellowcanine]

26. Well the point is he could have asked the same question of Biden and Biden would have nailed it.

They are competing for the same job. Wasn't it the Republicans who coined the "soft bigotry of low expectations?"

[MrModerate]

134. That would be because Biden isn't an ignorant twit. n/t

[LooseWilly]

61. I don't know about got you

He originally asked "Do you agree witht he Bush Doctrine?"

She smirked, and answered "In what respect, Charlie?"

And, those camera angles that the Freepers seem to be up in arms about seemed to catch him seeming dumbstruck. 'Did she?... Could she possibly not know what the Bush Doctrine is?' He was obviously thinking. The shock was written across his face.

At that point, he asked "How do you interpret it?" She answered something like: "It's his world view."

When he finally explained it to her, she ignored the explanation, let alone the questions, and instead launched into a tirade about Bush "trying to protect Americans from Islamic extremists who're Hell Bent on..." blah blah blah.

She made it obvious she had no idea what the Bush Doctrine was. She also made it obvious that she's not a person who'll admit to gaps in her knowledge. Most of the people I've come across who won't even admit to gaps in knowledge, are also not particularly keen to learn anything when under pressure.

The notion that such a person should be second in line behind the oldest President in history, is mind boggling.

There is no pass for this. We'll see if she learns quickly... but she's had two weeks... and all I'm seeing is defensiveness about her previous unconcern... and name dropping/talking point regurgitation that seems like it's supposed to be 'good enough'.
Not. It's NOT good enough.
Hell, at this point I think I might be better qualified to be VP, and my only executive experience was managing a mail room with 4 employees.
At least I've been out of the country. Hell, I think I've technically dealt with a foreign head of state.

She should NOT be given a pass on this. This was no slip of the tongue. This was a clear indication of lack of preparation or insight.

[Cha]

112. It wasn't that she didn't know..it was the cover up!

Thanks for the run through, loose willy.

[MrModerate]

135. Aside from grossly inadequate experience, her character . . .

Disqualifies her for the job. She's a pissant pol, not stupid but still blockheaded, and with the ethics of a hyena.

[greendog]

11. It was a "T-Ball" question.

He was setting her up to look good.

She swung and missed.

[mamalone]

12. Actually, I did know what it was...

But even assuming you are correct and it's an obscure reference that most people don't use, Palin should be held o a higher standard. A much higher standard. She should be so familiar with these subjects that she has comfort discussing them from any which way. She is saying that she is qualified be POTUS, for heaven's sake!

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[crim son]

14. I can't agree.

I'm a lowly housewife who follows politics and I know what the Bush Doctrine is. Surely an expert on foreign policy like Ms. Palin should know as well. :sarcasm:

[stray cat]

15. The Bush doctrine is commonly used if someone follows politics

she should have known the phrase and its implications completely

[Ichingcarpenter]

16. It was too hard a question for trailer trash but not for someone a heartbeat away

It is a well known defined term

So I call bullshit on this post.

[yellowcanine]

17. Well then why didn't Sarah just say, "Fill me in, Charlie, I am not up on all the terminology, "

instead of trying to fudge it. Actually she should have known what the Bush doctrine is since she and McCain both say they supported the war. The basis for the war was the Bush doctrine.

[Virginia Dare]

22. Exactly, she was clearly in way over her head..

she appeared very ill at ease, was obviously just winging it, throw as many phrases out there as you can and make it seem like you know what you're talking about, as Charlie pointed out with his "blizzard of words" comment.

[yellowcanine]

39. Reminded me of Dan Quayle in 1988.

Didn't matter what the question was, he had one answer for foreign policy stuff and one answer for domestic policy stuff and he would launch into it on cue. Funny as hell, you could almost see the synapses firing as he pondered which answer to give and how to segue into it without being too obvious about it.

[Virginia Dare]

43. Her "I Didn't Blink" line fell flat too..

last night before I saw the interview, that was the banner on some of the news sites, so that was obviously the highlight that the RNC pushed out to the media. When I watched it live though, she was very unconvincing. The line lacked the swagger necessary to pull it off.

The GOP has got a serious identity problem with her now. I don't think you can sell her as both the sweet and sexy mommy and the ruthless pitbull that's going to shake everybody up. You've got to pick one or the other.

[yellowcanine]

51. Yes, anyone who has ever interviewed a job candidate had to "cringe" at that one.

A candidate who professes to have no trepidation about seeking a particular job is someone you want to pass over. The key is to know your weaknesses and have a plan for addressing them.
And anyone who doesn't say that the idea of being VP or President doesn't give them some pause is either incredibly ignorant, full of hubris, or just plain lying.

[secondwind]

18. personally, I would have wanted a question about Venezuela AND Russia,

you know, something more current..........to see if she really reads newspapers.

Does anyone here really believe that Bush reads newspapers?

[Tanuki]

34. Bush has said he DOESN'T read newspapers!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/143851_thomas15.html
<snip>
"By HELEN THOMAS
HEARST NEWSPAPERS

WASHINGTON -- President Bush recently gave an hour-long exclusive interview to Fox TV anchor Brit Hume, who tossed him a series of softball questions.

Among them, Bush was asked how he gets his news. Answer: He relies on briefings by chief of staff Andrew Card and national security affairs adviser Condoleezza Rice.

He walks into the Oval Office in the morning, Bush said, and asks Card: "What's in the newspapers worth worrying about? I glance at the headlines just to kind of (get) a flavor of what's moving," Bush said. "I rarely read the stories," he said.

Instead, the president continued, he gets "briefed by people who have probably read the news themselves." Rice, on the other hand, is getting the news "directly from the participants on the world stage."

Bush said this had long been his practice." <snip>

[Renew Deal]

21. I think "Bush Doctrine" questions are fair.

So are preemptive war questions. It's not a stretch for anyone paying attention and certainly anyone that should be running for VP.

[SmokingJacket]

23. Even if she didn't know what it was, she should have been able to finesse it

But she couldn't. She can't think on her feet.

I expect my leaders to be SMARTER than I am and to be able to parry whatever crazy thing gets launched at them.

(Clinton raised the bar on brains, I think.)

[stray cat]

24. Ed Koch just said on CNN that he did not know the Bush doctrine

but knew of the Bush statement. The Bush statement? He thought it was a gotcha question - I disagree

[Virginia Dare]

25. I think it showed her utter lack of intellectual ability..

and her incurous nature. Perhaps people are okay with another uber-idiot in the White House. I for one am not.

[AuntPatsy]

27. Not crap at all, considering what our country is facing concerning foriegn policy, my god, wake up

[Skwmom]

28. You should know it if your running to be a very close heartbeat away.

[DianeK]

29. i agree...

Would have been better to specifically ask about preemptive war since that is what seems to be what he was going after....or 'bush doctrine as it pertains to...' The question was much too broad

[Motown_Johnny]

32. NO!!!! He asked if she agreed.. there was no reason to narrow it down.

[DianeK]

don't really want to get personal here but

I am hardly a newbie as you put it, having been a member since 2003. Your profile reveals that you have been a member for just a tad over 2 months...so welcome aboard..maybe I can enlighten you that this board is for discussion and while we may not always agree our goals are the same

[the48er]

46. 'Newbie,' Huh? Get This Straight MTJ:

Since you seem to have deleted your post -- which I found extremely offensive -- I hereby delete my post in objection.

[Motown_Johnny]

56. Deleted the newbie part sorry. ...but you are still wrong...

The idea that any person in government does not understand the basic foundation of our foreign policy for the last 7 years is unthinkable.

The fact that a Vice Presidential candidate does not fully understand the term is unforgivable. The fact that she did not even recognize the term is fucking Twilight Zone material.



I don't understand how anyone can say a simple "do you agree with" question is not a fair one. It is open ended and allows her to shape her response any way she wants. It was a softball question


I also don't understand anyone who considers them self a progressive defending ignorance at this level.

I have a brain, maybe you should demand one from our "leaders".



Check the time I posted this thread.. just moments after she fucked up that answer


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7032986&mesg_id=7032986




Everyone with a brain knows what the Bush Doctrine is and her not knowing it is indefensible

[the48er]

64. Fair Enough: We Can Disagree Agreeably

I deleted my very pissed-off post, also.

I have zero interest in defending Sarah Palin for any reason, and that was not at all my point. My beef in the original post was almost entirely with Charlie Gibson than with Sarah Palin.

Gibson unnecessarily fucked up what should have been a very simple question. After I thought about it for a second, I, too, knew what the "Bush Doctine" is. But it took me a second because that's NOT the typical locution. A much more typical locution in this area is "preemptive war." Gibson unnecessarily muddied waters that were and should remain crystal clear.

[Motown_Johnny]

70. I deserved it.. no hard feelings here. I should know better than to post when angry

I'll just leave it there

[Bad Thoughts]

30. Bush Doctrine is more than preemptive war

It also includes using warfare to reshape the international environment (eg, spreading democracy via war).

[BumRushDaShow]

31. Doesn't matter whether the avg. Joe knows what it is...

As long as the media brands her response as a non-answer, it just reinforces her having an empty head and empty suit.

[spanone]

33. bullshit. she wants to be veep ? bullshit

[wiseoldman]

36. If she can't keep track of her Bush Doctrine Que Card ...

(she must have lost it).... how can we trust her to keep track of anything!

My God - give me a break - someone running for VP doesn't know what the Bush Doctrine is?

[stillcool]

40. I agree. Ignorance is nothing..

to be rejoiced. Especially when the person displaying the ignorance is a Vice Presidential candidate. This is not a High School test.

[wilt the stilt]

41. you all are leaving out the most

important part of the equation. she is dumb

[blogslut]

42. I disagree

The Bush Doctrine is very well known, especially among the repubs that sang its praises. Pre-emptive Strike is merely another definition for the Bush Doctrine. The Governor should have known what it was but she didn't and she looked foolish.

[dansolo]

137. Pre-emptive war is only one aspect of the Bush Doctrine

It would have been a poor question if he only asked her about pre-emptive war. The Bush Doctrine encompasses not only the means (pre-emptive war) but also the goals (global hegemony/spreading democracy, depending on who you are talking to). And the "Bush Doctrine" is a well established term, which any politician should be familiar with. Just because it's usage has declined recently, doesn't mean that it is obscure.

[yellowcanine]

44. "Soft Bigotry of Low Expectations". Biden or Obama would have nailed it.

And the Republicans would make a campaign commercial about it if they did not, you can be sure of that.

[Onlooker]

45. The OP seems to be showing his lack of knowledge

Anyone reasonably well read has heard of the Bush doctrime, and a candidate for any national office, even Senate or House, should certainly know what the term means.

[seabeyond]

47. sel delete

[burythehatchet]

49. You are wrong in just about everything you wrote. Where to begin?

Most importantly its NOT "preemptive war", its PREVENTIVE war. Almost the opposite.

[the48er]

60. Those Who Won't Do Their Homework Must STFU

And that includes me when I've failed to do my homework.

But I digress. While either word -- "preemptive" or "preventive" -- will do, a google search for the term I used ("preemptive war") turns up 256,000 results. Your term ("preventive war")gets 179,000. Why do you think that is, BTH?

[The Night Owl]

62. How many hits do you get when you search for the term "Bush Doctrine" at Google? I get 482,000.

[the48er]

76. That Looks About Right

And I'll say again -- as quite a few others have also said here -- I knew what "Bush Doctrine" was ONLY after I thought about it for a second. Google gives hundreds of thousands of results for each of the following: "Bush Doctrine," "preemptive war" and "preventive war." The question would have been much, much clearer had Gibson asked about "preemptive war." Virtually everyone would have known immediately -- with no reflection necessary -- what "preemptive war" meant.

In unnecessarily muddying the waters on that point, Gibson failed to do his job.

[burythehatchet]

67. Sorry, trying to help you overcome your ignorance is not part of my morning plan

cheers
:hi:

[The Night Owl]

52. You are either stunningly stupid or dishonest. {EOM}

[the48er]

55. What a Brilliant Argument You Make!

Unlike me, you are breathtakingly brilliant and scrupulously honest.

[The Night Owl]

58. Your post doesn't merit a serious response but I will say this...

Your claim that "virtually no one uses" the term "Bush Doctrine" is demonstrably false. Do not post again except to retract that false claim.

And, if you are who you say you are then post a "hello" on your blog.

[the48er]

71. Post Your Own Motherfucking Blog

The world cannot possibly survive another moment without your bestowal of the pearls of wisdom on which life itself.

Arrogant, much?

It's not a blog, Genius. It's two or three webpages posted in conjunction with this: a single-page debunking of the most persistent John McCain myths. I spent a month building that page (which I happen to think is rather good), then added a couple other pages pretty much as after thoughts.

The "hello" you so arrogantly demanded is at the bottom of that primary page.

[The Night Owl]

72. You didn't retract your demonstrably false claim. I'm waiting. {EOM}

[the48er]

82. Glad You're Waiting. Please Continue To Do So.

I'll submit to any- and everything you demand of me ASAP. I'm hard at work on my current submission right now. So please, please, please don't go anywhere or do anything else until you receive my acknowledgment of your majestic correctness.

In the meantime, God bless you, Your Cleanliness.

[Zynx]

57. Anyone who has paid any attention to the last 7 years is familiar with the Bush Doctrine.

This is not some arcane thing from the circles of Poli-Sci professors.

[JawJaw]

59. Pig Ignorant?

I don't even live in the States, but even I could have bluffed my way through that question better than Palin (although I do, of course read DU,so I guess I'm pretty well informed about US politics);)

If I was one of her constituents in Alaska I would be more than a little worried that a Republican State Governor could not provide a credible overview of the Bush doctrine, let alone somebody presuming to attain one of the highest offices in the land!

[Tutonic]

63. Gotta respectfully disagree. The Bush Doctrine like the Marshall Plan or

Manifest Doctrine is widely discussed among historians, diplomats and politicians. It has formed the basis of this nations actions over the last eight years. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the basic premise for this policy position, a neophyte politician seeking to understand why we invaded Iraq would have to know about the Bush Doctrine. Lacking this knowledge her response is irrational and frightening.

[the48er]

97. Good Point

I strongly agree that Manifest Destiny (I assume that's what you meant to say) is in some ways very comparable to the "Bush Doctrine."

I would add that Palin should be thoroughly -- and reflexively -- familiar with both.

But for the viewers' sake, Gibson should have asked about "preemptive war," and NOT about the Bush Doctrine. I am very, very confident that far more viewers would have immediately understood "preemptive war" than those who understood the unnecessarily abstract construction Gibson used.

[Tutonic]

122. Thanks Destiny, Doctrine, Tomatoes, I still have to disagree. He asked

a legitimate question. I don't think it necessary for him to dummy down questions about complex matters for the viewers. If the viewer does not understand what the Bush Doctrine encompasses, they probably should be watching Desperate Housewives or Jeopardy. Unfortunately, Palin's lack of comprehension merely served to remind G8, NATO, UN, WHO, MAP and other world organizations why the US is dollar is free falling. We have wandered off of the trail and are intent on going further into the woods.

[Geek_Girl]

66. Umm I expect the VP candidate to know ....

What their own party's sitting presidents policy/doctrine that lead this country into war. The common man I don't expect to know this. But IMHO she should have known what the Bush doctrine was or at least had the understanding that it was not a "world outlook".

[wiseoldman]

68. To be fair to Sara....

On her favorite news show, Bill O'Reilly, it is not referred to as the Bush Doctrine, it is referred to as "bomb-bomb-bomb Iran". Probably the Bush Doctrine not mentioned by her favorite author Ann Coulter either.... something about "ragheads" ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDpzU5E3WoQ

[JoePhilly]

69. He should have asked her to compare the Bush Doctrine to the Powell Doctrine

And indicate which approach is stronger.

Now that would have been funny.

[NYC Liberal]

73. WOW! So now we cannot even question her incompetence?

Yeah, ok. She is running for fucking Vice President of the US, not VP of Junior High. Yes she SHOULD know this and if she didn't, she should have asked and if she really didn't know, she could have bullshitted it and claimed she knew but just didn't know the "term" for it.

Anyway, yes her incompetence IS an issue!

[the48er]

80. You're Being Very, Very Dishonest

Holy shit, talk about a "straw man" attack.

I said nothing remotely like "we cannot even question her incompetence." Nothing remotely like that. Nor would I. Not in a million years.

My complaint was and is mainly with Charlie Gibson for unnecessarily muddying waters that were and should remain crystal clear.

If you won't take my word for it, how about considering the comments of numerous other people here who've indicated that the question didn't register with them immediately, either.

"Preemptive war" would have registered immediately with virtually everyone; that's how Gibson should have asked it.

[LooseWilly]

85. You have to be kidding

If you look at the clip, it's pretty obvious that Gibson was caught off guard by her not knowing the term.
I don't think it even crossed his mind, in advance, that she might NOT know the term.

She's a professional politician looking to get into the big leagues... and she doesn't even know the basic terminology. Are Stock Traders hired who don't know about the latest market theories? No.

This whole notion that she should've been approached like she was just some lady off the street being asked a question by a pollster is FUCKING RIDICULOUS. She's supposed to be the one with the MOST EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE on the whole ticket. At least half of DU knows the term... and anyone who was paying attention when Bush was trying to sell the Iraq war would recognize the term.
Why the hell should a reporter have to dumb down the questions he pitches at a VP candidate?

If she wants special consideration for her complete lack of experience or depth, I want to hear her EXPLICITLY ASK TO BE TREATED WITH KID GLOVES.

This is not a firggin high school civics class... this is the interview for the VP position.
I mean, I know the Republicans don't consider qualifications to be important for jobs in government, but are you kidding me??

[the48er]

87. I Agree With Everything You Said

Palin should have recognized the term -- and for precisely the reasons you articulate.

I particularly agree with this: "This whole notion that she should've been approached like she was just some lady off the street being asked a question by a pollster is FUCKING RIDICULOUS."

My question to you is, Whom do you think harbors such notions? I certainly don't.

But that does not alter the fact that only a tiny, tiny percentage of the populace routinely uses the expression "Bush Doctrine." And because that's the case, Gibson's extremely important question was far less effective than it should have been had he asked about "preemptive war," which would have registered with pretty much everyone immediately.

[uponit7771]

74. The governer of Alaska should know more than the average blogger.

[Bluenorthwest]

77. Just wrong

And this is Palin Protectionist fodder. She looked like what she is, under informed,inexperienced and not very quick on the comeback.
She was unfamiliar with a very common term, and not just the terminology, she had no idea what the Bush Doctrine was at all.
And the OP in addition to being way off base, is being rude to everyone who dares to not join in with his questionable reasoning. This is a discussion board. Try discussing instead of hurling invective at others.
Wrong and rude.

[the48er]

105. Please Clarify

If I was gratuitously rude to anyone I want to apologize to that person or persons ASAP. To whom, specifically, do I owe an apology -- and for what, exactly?

But please bear this in mind:

My OP was prompted by nothing more than my genuine outrage that Gibson said "Bush Doctrine" rather than "preemptive war." That's all. Is that so horrible? I truly believe that was a serious and consequential blunder on Gibson's part, since I think it confused more TV viewers than it enlightened. And given the gravity of that particular subject, I was outraged. Is that so awful?

One might think so. Almost as soon as my OP was up I was hit with some really nasty personal abuse (some of which has since been removed) from several different people. To those kinds of attacks I tend to respond harshly -- but to the best of my ability not inappropriately. That's what I did. Is that unreasonable?

I favor amiable discussion of the points raised here and on other political blogs. That's always my first choice. But when attacked personally, I'll fight back as forcefully but appropriately as I can.

In the case of this OP, if someone wanted to explain to me why I was wrong about Gibson, I'd have been entirely comfortable about anyone's telling me so and explaining why. That's what these blogs are supposed to be all about. That's one of the reasons I like some of them. I've learned a lot as a result of my participation, and from time to time I've changed my mind because of things I learned here and elsewhere. But before much of that could happen in this case, I was very attacked in some pretty nasty ways on multiple fronts.

But again, if at some point the fault in these matters really was mine, please call my attention to what, exactly, requires my apology or apologies. If you'll show me where I was wrong, I'd hope I'd have sufficient integrity to admit it and try to make amends.

[Colobo]

79. It was a great question.

[Jersey Devil]

81. Welcome to DU and enjoy your pizza

[PRETZEL]

84. I might disagree,

I didn't get the chance to watch the interview, but did read the transcript:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5782924&page=1

She knows what the Bush Doctrine is, they just want to run away from everything Bush until the election is over.

"You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig"

[wiseoldman]

86. she will be fine!

just another 8 weeks with the Q cards and she will be ready for VP..... or OMG... PRESIDENT!

[doc03]

88. I have a High School Diploma and I am a

Union worker in a steel mill and I know what the Bush Doctrine is maybe I should run as VP.

[Girlieman]

89. I could not disagree with you more.

Any candidate for national office should know what the Bush Doctrine is. I know, and if I know, then anybody who presumes to run for national office should know too. Otherwise, she just isn't involved enough in current events to fill the job.

Her ignorance should be headline news.

[the48er]

92. Yes, You *Could* Disagree with Me More

If for no other reason than that I think everything in the body (if not the subject line) of your post is true, reasonable, fair and accurate.

But for reasons that I have by now flogged to death in previous posts on this thread, I still maintain that Gibson should have done a much, much better job of asking Palin an extremely important question.

I for one would never lend legitimacy to what BushCo has done by calling it a "doctrine." I would, however, call BushCo's lunatic taste for preemptive war "criminal." But expecting Gibson to ask Palin about the "BushCo's Criminality" might not be terribly realistic.

[doc03]

90. Ok then if you say the Bush Doctrine question was crap.

What about when she said Russia made an unprovoked attack on Georgia. According to the Bush Doctrine the Russians were perfectly justified in attacking Georgia. The US had troops in Georgia training their troops and even if they hadn't attacked S. Ossetia first they posed an eminent threat to Russia and a preemptive strike was necessary. Now she thinks the US would be justified in attacking Russia because they attacked Georgia, Miss Piggy is even more dangerous than Dick Cheney.

[DeschutesRiver]

91. I don't think either Obama or Biden would be have this kind of intellectual difficulty

in answering this question about the Bush docgtrine. Or that Charlie would have had to use "the right words" to help out either of these guys.

It is a bad day when we have to ding a reporter when he asks a question that the candidate is too stupid to grasp, and we fuss around about how it should have been phrased. We are talking potential leader of the free world - otherwise you are putting another dumbass like Bush in power. This was NOT a hard question to field, unless a candidate has simply not paid a lick of attention to world affairs since 9/11.

It isn't good to lower the bar this much just to help two incompetents feel like they were right in running for high office. This is the big leagues. Mediocracy needs to be flushed down the toile.

[krkaufman]

93. Then you shouldn't be the VP, either. I knew what it is, and Palin never figured it out ...

... even after Gibson told her. Someone seeking the highest office in the land should have a clue about the more controversial issues facing the country, besides Roe v Wade.

[the48er]

94. You're Right. I *Shouldn't* Be VP. That's Kind of My Point.

I'm not a candidate for VP and I'm most assuredly not qualified to be one -- although I'm probably more qualified that Sarah Palin, since I believe in reason, honesty, compassion -- and doing my damn homework -- and she apparently does not.

What I am is a passably well-informed citizen who knows after a moment's reflection what the Bush Doctrine is. But I would never dignify or legitimize BushCo's criminal insanity by calling it a "doctrine." I've called it a lot of things, but never a "doctrine." For many reasons, Gibson should instead have asked about "preemptive war." One reason is so that millions of Americans even less qualified than I am to be VP would have known immediately -- with no reflection necessary -- what Gibson was talking about.

[krkaufman]

103. Excellent points. Though I expect that the citizens of whom you speak ...

... wouldn't understand the "preemptive" or "preventive" distinction, either. Gibson did point out "anticipatory self-defense", which describes the preemptive premise, and Palin still didn't grasp the controversial concept.

[the48er]

107. *Those* fine folks wouldn't have been watching in the first place

Actually, the citizens of whom I was speaking are not the total imbeciles who don't know and absolutely don't give a shit. There's not much we can do about them. I wish them well, I guess, but I can't take their baths for them.

The folks I am thinking about here are the middlebrows -- those who know a little and who care to some degree. I think Gibson let those folks down. And in doing so I think he let us all down, since it tends to be middlebrow folk (rather than wonks or imbeciles) who decide elections.

[grantcart]

95. the 'Bush Doctrine" was very well known among people conversant with foriegn policy

discussions because it threw away tradition and also turned away from the "Powell Doctrine" which had become the previous standard for committing troops to war.

Lots of people don't know what the Monroe Doctrine is either. That doesn't mean that well educated people shouldn't know what it is, particularly those involved in discussing committing the United States to war.

[The Night Owl]

96. By the way, I'm not comfortable with the language in the last sentence of your post...

...even though it is just figurative. We don't need that kind of talk here.

[the48er]

100. I'm Not Comfortable with the Breathtaking Arrogance of Several of Your Posts

Your posts on this thread have also been gratuitously combative. Is that how you get your jollies? By picking fights where none need exist? Do you get off on scooting right past amiable disputation in order to arrive at the making-enemies stage ASAP? Well be all means ... have a nice time.

[The Night Owl]

106. I'm just stating facts.

To claim that the term Bush Doctrine is used by virtually no one, you have to be stupid, dishonest, or a combination of both.

[the48er]

108. That's Not True. Your Messages Have Been Gratuitously Combative and Abusive

Here's what you just said to me -- in this context, directly to me:

"you have to be stupid, dishonest, or a combination of both."

If you do not perceive that statement to be gratuitously and offensively combative and abusive, then I leave the floor to you, since there's no point in my going any further with you.

[The Night Owl]

124. You're entitled to your opinion of me but it doesn't change the fact that you were...

...just plain wrong to claim that virtually no one uses the term Bush Doctrine.

[the48er]

130. I Have No Opinion of You One Way or the Other. How Could I? I Don't Know You.

But what I can say with absolute certainty is that your posts were gratuitously combative and abusive. That tends to make further discussion of any kind impossible.

For whatever it's worth, though, your quibble in this instance would seem to be over the phrase "virtually no one." All right, I'll readily concede that it's very likely that for tens of thousands of people, "Bush Doctrine" is common parlance. But why stop at tens of thousands -- I'll be generous. Just for the sake of argument, let's say that for fully 1 million Americans, the term "Bush Doctrine" is common, immediately understood parlance. That million people would be one-third of one percent of the general populace. In this or any comparable context, I believe it would be reasonable and accurate to call 1 million people "virtually no one." I do not believe at all, however, that 1 million Americans would, at any given moment, have a decent grasp of what the words "Bush Doctrine" actually mean. Based on a quarter-century of paying pretty close attention to polls concerning what Americans do and do not know about politics and the world in general, I'd bet very heavily that the actual number would be smaller.

[DefenseLawyer]

98. Time well spent.

Thanks for the effort. At least the time spent here was time you couldn't spend doing something productive to elect John McCain.

[mzmolly]

99. Most DU-ers knew what it was and we're not suggesting we be trusted

with the keys to the national security kingdom.

The press is giving her a pass.

[President_Obama]

101. she really fucked that one up good for you guys, didn't she?

face it, your boy picked an amateur.

[Orsino]

102. "Preemptive war" is probably one of the phrases Gibson agreed never to use. n/t

[BurtWorm]

104. Why didn't she say she didn't know what he meant by "Bush Doctrine"?

That would have demonstrated something actually positive about her character.

[truthisfreedom]

109. So what? Palin demonstrated an inability to handle the question, whether or not she knew the answer

Her "caribou in headlights" reaction shows she's not ready to meet Putin and face the tough questions.

[Born_A_Truman]

110. Yeah, nobody ever uses that phrase

Google results 1 - 10 of about 585,000 for "Bush doctrine". (0.15 seconds)

[the48er]

116. That Proves Nothing

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,630,000 for "head gasket". (0.20 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 797,000 for "cascading style sheet". (0.16 seconds)

What percentage of the general public do you figure would be able to pick a head gasket out of an assortment of tools and parts? How many would you guess would have any clue at all what a cascading style sheet is? Yet both are, in their ways, absolutely essential to our everyday world.

For a tiny, tiny, tiny percentage of the populace, "Bush Doctrine" is fine. Those folks use it a lot. That why you got so many results.

But for the overwhelming majority of American citizens, a question about "preemptive war" would be vastly more meaningful than a question about the "Bush Doctrine." You're not going to argue that, are you?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

121. A professional auto mechanic would know what a head gasket is

A professional politician, especially one who is curious at all about foreign affairs, would easily know what the Bush Doctrine is.

"...What percentage of the general public do you figure would be able to pick a head gasket out of an assortment of tools and parts? ..."

That's one of the major problems with Palin. She's just a normal member of the "general public". She's being marketed like the next door neighbor because that's what she is. Her appeal may be that she's "just like me", but the fact is that she's no intellectual, she's no expert, she's no professional. We need someone who has vision regarding world affairs and a very solid grasp of the issues, the way we'd like to have an auto mechanic who knows what a head gasket is. We need to elect experts in their field, not hockey moms. If she wants to be President of the United States and have enormous power and influence at her command, she should expect to be grilled at what she does like a Ph.D. candidate before his/her Ph.D. committee.

[the48er]

123. Amen

One the other hand, if the general public is to watch her defend her proverbial doctoral thesis (and we must), then the committee must be sufficiently wise and jargon-averse so as to enable us middlebrows to grasp what's going on. (Sorry for flogging your simile to death.)

I agree that "Bush Doctrine" should be fine for Palin, but I still maintain that "preemptive war" would've been much, much better for most viewers.

[Born_A_Truman]

128. The point being that the "average person" isn't qualified to be VP

I doubt you would have a clue about some terms I have to know in my particular profession either--but if I don't know them, I have no business running my company. The interview wasn't to find out what the general public knew, it was to see what Sarah Palin knew and it was obvious her handlers forgot that little 4x5 card when they prepped her.

[the48er]

132. I Agree To a Point

Especially with this:

"The interview wasn't to find out what the general public knew, it was to see what Sarah Palin knew and it was obvious her handlers forgot that little 4x5 card when they prepped her."

But actually, the interview's main purpose wasn't to test Palin's knowledge. That was obviously a major goal, but it wasn't the primary purpose. The main purpose was to inform the public -- to allow viewers to see for themselves whether or not they have grounds to conclude that she might be a good VP. And with that end in mind, Gibson's asking about "preemptive war" would have been much more meaningful to most viewers than was "Bush Doctrine."

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

111. A professional politician should know

It has been a basic part of the Bush agenda. Someone who is curious about the world around them should know. A professional politician would know this like the back of their hand, as it is part of their basic vocabulary, although it may not be part of ours. If Palin is at all curious about her own party's leaders, she would have read Bush's speeches in which he's talked about the Bush doctrine. The Bush Doctrine was first explained in Bush's commencement speech to the graduating class of the U.S. Military Academy on June 1, 2002 in West Point, New York. These are the kind of terms that a professional should know, if they want to compete at a high level of politics. If you google "Bush doctrine", you get hundreds of thousands of hits, including a Wikipedia article. I'm sure Barack Obama, Joe Biden, and John McCain would have been able to understand the question. This is why we need to elect intellectuals and those who are extremely well read into the office of President and not people who are "just like me" with whom we want to have a beer.

[RichGirl]

113. Absolutely NO ONE needs to know what the...

...Bush Doctrine is. Except those who could potentially be PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!!!

[Forkboy]

118. Nitpicking that only a political junkie could love.

[AzDar]

119. Huh. I know what the Bush Doctrine is.

Sarah is in waaaaayy over her head.

[Not a robought]

120. Outrage over a locution?

If you claim that no one knows what bush doctrine means (based on gut feeling I'm sure unless you can cite something) and an opportunity was missed to show the middlebrows where she plainly stands, then I claim that it doesn't matter. The point was made just as well by the optics. Charlie wasn't speaking in tongues. Perhaps he should have for her to really understand the question?

[Emit]

126. Wow, that's almost verbatim what Rush Limbaugh was spewing on about today

[Born_A_Truman]

129. Imagine that!

[dchill]

127. I believe the question was valid - anyone in politics...

especially national politics and running for VP, should know what the Bush Doctrine is. ESPECIALLY a Republican warmonger!

Gibson's question pretty much acted as a weed-eater. Sarah got whacked.

[MrsCorleone]

131. Keep in mind, she pronounced nuclear as nu-cu-lar

at least twice. That alone should disqualify her. She's a moron and the world needs to see that.

[dkofos]

136. Whatever it takes to bring the PUPPIE KILLER down.

[bushisanidiot]

138. She cannot be compared to the "AVERAGE AMERICAN" because she is running for vice president of the

United States!!

She is EXPECTED to know more about you and me about world events, especially political events.

She should be fucking ON TOP OF HER GAME if she is going to run for the SECOND HIGHEST POSITION IN THE COUNTRY!!

she has absolutely NO EXCUSE for not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is!!