Who is the hell is defenders of wildlife action fund? Are they brain dead?

[Skwmom]

Or a Rove group? Or have they hired a Republican ad group?

This ad makes Palin look tough. The hidden message is she will go after the terrorists and they won't know what's coming. The ONLY people this appeals to is people who already support Obama.

On edit: There are TONS of hunters in OH and PA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQobIUE1zTU&eurl=http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith

On edit: There are many SWING non hunters who will see this ad and think it backs up Sarah is tough enough to take on those Washington politicians and terrorists. And if you can't understand that, I don't know what to say.

When elections are close and you are fighting for EVERY vote shouldn't the following be a cardinal rule in making attack ads:

Don't make an ad that may be viewed by some voters as favorable to the person the ad is targeting (that is, Sarah is one tough person, isn't a squeamish woman and will do whatever it takes to clean up Washington and defeat the terrorists). Just saying the 527s might want to think about it.


Can't we run TRUTH ads that won't garner them votes from anyone. Like exposing her for the corrupt politician she is.

[myrna minx]

1. The other people this will appeal to, are people with ethics and common decency. n/t

[Skwmom]

3. Newsflash: If they have ethics and common decency they are already voting

for Obama.

[myrna minx]

7. Newsflash: Most hunters do not find shooting animals from helicopters as ethical.

It's as ethical like fishing with dynamite or "hunting" an animal who's in a cage. This will disgust hunters.

[Skwmom]

15. An animal in a cage? How are these animals caged?

[myrna minx]

23. My example is that not allowing or providing an animal to flee and escape

is unethical to hunters, like areal hunting, "shooting fish an a barrel" or "hunting" caged animals.

[Born_A_Truman]

54. Shooting wolves in the snow from a plane

is not much different than shooting fish in a barrel. Real hunters don't do that.

[anigbrowl]

85. It's a comparison, not a description. Read it more carefully next time.

[LostinVA]

107. People I know who hunt think it's disgusting and sick

I don't approve of hunting, but all of the hunters in my family are (strangely, to me) big animal people.

[myrna minx]

119. I'm an animal loving vegetarian, who has never hunted a day in her life,

but living in MInnesota and growing up in Wisconsin, I know hunters, and this goes against everything true hunters (not the Dick Cheney kind) believe in. The OP, as I've read though out this thread, doesn't know a thing about the people they are fretting about. Hunters, women, moms etc.

[LostinVA]

151. Exactly (on your entire post!_

[polichick]

2. Wow - think again.

[Skwmom]

5. No I don't need to think again. This ad will HELP Palin. With all of the

LIES that woman has sold, and packaging herself as a phony reformer this is what you want to attack? Are people clueless?

[polichick]

13. There are ads coming from many groups - this is one. Thinking people...

...are not impressed with cruelty.

[Skwmom]

25. If they're a thinking person, do you think they're going to vote for McSame to begin with?

[polichick]

31. A lot of people are completely unaware of these things about Palin - so far.

[Skwmom]

42. There are SO MANY OTHER THINGS about Palin that

the voters aren't aware of that would do a heck of a better job destroying that insane ticket.

[polichick]

56. The ads add up - this one is important because it says a lot about her character...

...and lack of empathy/compassion ~ which is a trait of sociopaths.

[anigbrowl]

89. Fine. Make your own ad and show everyone else how it's done.

This is an issue for some people and the ad is directed at those people. Not every had has to meet your personal stamp of approval.

[CatsDogsBabies]

43. Does this ad make you like Palin more?

[Skwmom]

57. No. But I already DON'T like her and am not voting for that ticket.

[Virginia Dare]

120. You are not who they are targeting..

they are playing to the undecided people who don't know much about her except she's a "hockey mom".

[tsuki]

59. Yes, you do. B&W is simplistic thinking. Most hunters of my

acquaintance do not approve of aerial or caged hunts. Several object to nuisance licensing.

They do not like Palin.

[truebrit71]

71. "Are people clueless?" No, apparently it's just you...

:eyes:

[Skwmom]

93. Oh no. The American people aren't clueless. That's why we've had

8 years of Bush and an election that is much closer than it should be

American people clueless. Perish the thought.

[truebrit71]

96. Defenders of Wildlife is NOT a 527....

Clueless much? :eyes:

[soulcore]

110. It's called "fair chase"...

And all of the hunters I know here in Texas practice it.

Hunter's aren't stupid, they know they have an advantage, hence leaving the animal NO WAY AT ALL to escape isn't considered sport.

Use your head, this makes her look like the whack-job she really is.

[CTyankee]

143. It's pretty brutal. And unsportsmanlike. It also screams that she probably not a very

good shot in the woods if she has to resort to this.

that last frame of the dead, bleeding wolf slung from the wing of her bi-plane is horrifying. Then the message about the "bounty" just makes her look over the top.

Hunters hunt in season to thin the herd in order to prevent starvation of the animals being hunted. Now I don't hunt myself and never would but that is a far cry from what this ad tells us.

You have a point about her phony reformer act, but I notice that claim is getting LOTS of media attention the last couple of days. Not saying we shouldn't keep up the pressure on her for that claim, but this is just shocking enough to jolt some people who might be considering voting for her.

[President_Obama]

4. are you kidding? hiring people to shoot defenseless animals makes her appear tough?

you must think George Bush is the toughest SOB around, huh?

[Skwmom]

10. No I don't but George Bush got tons of voters who bought into it.

[blogslut]

6. Disagree

It makes her look cruel and heartless and full of blood lust.

[bobd0]

21. She already has the advantage of the rifle. If she's so tough why does she need the airplane?

If she's so tough why isn't she on the ground hunting instead of in the air taking pot shots like some sick arcade game?

I don't hunt but I know a lot of hunters. The hunters I know have respect for their prey as well as rules and common decency regarding the hunt. This isn't hunting. This is slaughter by cowards who are incapable of genuine hunting.

I HOPE THEIR FUCKING PLANES CRASH AND THEY ALL DIE AND WIND UP AS WOLF FEED.

[blogslut]

77. Do you really want that last line to be on teh Interwebs forever?

I would edit that if I were you.

[bobd0]

134. Yes I do want that last line on the "Interwebs" forever.

You're not me and I won't edit it.

[Dawgs]

8. Uh, hunters don't like this kind of hunting.

Or did you already know that.

It's time to quit being weak.

[bdamomma]

9. it shows her as having no compassion for wildlife and advocates

this sort of action on innocent animals total cruelty towards those animals.

[Shine]

11. Are you frickin' kidding me??

Hellooooooo........there are plenty of Republicans who actually CARE about the enviroment, you know.

I think this ad is VERY effective in getting the truth out there about her scary environmental record.

I didn't make the terrorist connection at all, quite frankly.

Yes, it makes her look tough....but in a horrible, wasteful and dare I say it, "disrespectful" way. :D

[Skwmom]

70. The environmental focus should not be on lets save wolves or

polar bears. That's how the right has framed the debate on environmental issues and they've painted the left as a bunch of loony treehuggers.

The environmental issues have to be framed on a much grander scale - as in let's save the planet and stop global warming, and drill baby drill won't cut it.

[Shine]

94. It's all part of the same grand scale because it's all connected.

Palin's treatment of wolves and polar bears is directly related to the Repug's exploitative view of the earth's resources, too.

It's about exploitation, pure and simple.

[Skwmom]

121. But focusing on one animal or a couple of animals has NEVER been a winner

for the environmentalists or the Democratic Party.

You are so right, but that argument has NEVER prevailed.

[sasha031]

12. Defenders of Wildlife is wonderful organization

that actually cares and loves wildlife. If you think this make psycho bitch look tough, seeing beautiful animals suffer the pains of hell for the fun of it:puke:

I love this group and contribute regularly to it.

[Skwmom]

17. Again, people who care and love wildlife will ALREADY be voting for Obama.

Those aren't the voters you need.

[seabeyond]

30. you dont listen do you. hunters.... do not like this practice as a whole.

all hunters. republican hunters, dem hunters, libertarian hunters and independent hunters. as a whole, as a group, hunters dislike it as much if not more cause it taints a sport they like

[sasha031]

32. how about the rupug's that watch Oprah

that freak if they break a nail. I wish Oprah would run this.

[Virginia Dare]

123. Did you see the rapture ready group discussion that was posted here the other day?

these crazy fundies were actually discussing how they were preparing their animals for the eventuality that they get raptured and their pets don't. Trust me, there are a lot of right wing animal lovers out there. They will be disgusted by this ad. Whether they will believe it or not is a different story.

[Shine]

18. Yes, we've been supporters of them for years, too.

:thumbsup: I'm esp proud to be a supporter of them today, after seeing their ad!

[hisownpetard]

28. I just sent them a large (for me) donation. This woman does not play fair, to put it

mildly.

How cruel and uncaring, even for a hunter.

[tsuki]

14. Not all hunters think alike. I was at a party last night where 80% of

the males hunt during the season. They were talking negatively about aerial hunting and bounties. They like Sara Palin even less than they like McSame and Obama. They are voting Ron Paul. (Which I encourage.)

[seabeyond]

16. bullshit. i have repugs and hunters in family. they are unanimously opposed to this behavior

it leaves a tainted view of hunting, something they enjoy and preceive totally different and are pissed at people that resort to this, or sneer at cheneys caged hunting, ridicule those that hunt sending out wild animals in fenced area.

there are things hunters oppose with fellow hunters more so than us non hunters.

it ruins their sport

[Shine]

26. Yes, this was my exact point, too.

there is no "honor" in this type of hunting, in their minds.

[seabeyond]

37. the majority of hunters take pride in a "code of honor" in hunting whether we agree or

believe as non hunters, does not matter. the hunter takes a pride and skill in what they do, .... and this to them is shameful. put head down in shame. fell ashamed.

the feel strongly on this. ones i know

[Shine]

45. Yup. The ad was very effective.

it'll piss people off and shock them, too.

[slinkerwink]

19. Wow. You don't know how big the animal-lover vote is.

Congress gets tens of thousands of e-mails from voters in almost every district in the country about animal welfare.

[Skwmom]

38. And are these animal lovers big supporters of Bush/McSame?

Some how they just don't strike me as the type.

[Virginia Dare]

118. Yes, there are some of those in the rescue organization that I work for..

believe it or not.

[cliffordu]

20. Really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

[Skwmom]

79. Am I certain that this ad will be viewed by some swing voters as

favorable to Palin b/c it reinforces her tough image? Yes.

Am I certain that ads can be run that have a MUCH stronger likelihood of not helping Palin/McCain to garner ANY votes. YES. And that is the point of my post.

[BronxBoy]

145. Actually

as everyone is trying to point out to you, she is more apt to be seen as weak. Probably the type of persons who would shoot birds on the groung

[LostinVA]

108. No, they don't

:eyes:

[cbc5g]

22. You're very wrong on this

[Skwmom]

34. It reinforces the image that Palin won't take time to read the terrorists their rights,

she'll do whatever it takes to track them down. We are going to have to agree to disagree BUT I hope there are some 527 groups out there that put out some hard hitting ads exposing them for the frauds they are.

[blondeatlast]

41. Sis, the Olympics are over and they don't have a allusory stretch competition. Epic Fail. nt

[faithfulcitizen]

63. LOL!

:spray:

[Skwmom]

100. Well have you noted a big portion of this political process is ILLUSIONARY

and plenty of people are buying it.

The McCain/Palin ticket is a reform scam. People want someone to clean up Washington and they want change. If the illusion they have created is allowed to stand, they win.

[LostinVA]

109. Theya re NOT a 527 -- they are a well known, respected animal activist group

I shouldn't be surprised that you posted something like this, but I am. Have you given yourself whiplash yet? SPIN SPIN SPIN

[blondeatlast]

24. Hunters don't approve of this kind of hunting and it will also grab lots of independent women.

But I see you woke up on the wrong side of the bed yet again.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

155. ...especially women who feel "they can relate to her"

Nurturing mom types don't typically advocate such butchery.

[demokatgurrl]

27. A Rove group? Now that's funny

I have supported Defenders of Wildlife for several years. They are not a Rove group.

[GreenEyedLefty]

29. A wolf is a terrorist? Hmmmkay...

I can see this ad having an impact on the "furbaby" crowd.

[Skwmom]

35. It reinforces the TOUGH image they are trying to create.

[seabeyond]

39. no it doesnt. it reinforces a disgust with this woman...... from hunters. n/t

[DCal]

51. Shooting wolves from a helicopter is not TOUGH.

[Shine]

53. Nope, it only makes her appear wreckless and dishonorable.....

hunters have a creed of "honor" when it comes to hunting their prey.

[blondeatlast]

64. A cowardly, sadistic way of killing a beautiful animal? Do they sell that stuff over the counter? W.

[MN Treehugger]

33. She doesn't look tough - she looks like a cruel asshole without a whit of compassion

My brother is a taxidermist and a large chunk of my family are avid hunters. They DO NOT think this practice is ethical or sportsmanlike, trust me on that. And my sister is conservative to the core.

[BeyondGeography]

36. It's a great ad, better than just about all the rest

People will watch it because it's got action and is extreme. It will cut through the clutter like a chainsaw.

[CitizenPatriot]

40. I am nauseated by hunting

BUT I used to know a lot of hunters in the midwest and they all took "pride" in hunting in FAIR ways; i.e., with a bow or in some manner which was "fair" to the animal.

I think what this ad is trying to say, and we can focus on, is what kind of person uses such ruthless advantage over a defenseless animal? also, the fact that the animal is exhausted and left to die a brutal death is NOT what most hunters will be heard advocating. Much like anything else, their egos and pride are wrapped up in being the "sportsperson" who used "skill" to kill, not who used unfair advantage and cruelty.

Most hunters KNOW that you don't let an animal suffer a long, agonizing death -- and they will criticize those who aren't a "good shot" for letting the animal suffer.

Again, I am very sickened by the entire thing, but if you focus on their value system, this practice of aerial hunting is obviously coward's play.

[faithfulcitizen]

44. YOU ARE SIMPLY WRONG. Do you know hunters personally? My hunter friends

in Indiana love their dogs, and eat their kill. I know people might find it hard to believe, but they also consider themselves "environmentalists" too. They hunt deer and turkey for food and to help control the populations. They are farmers and don't enjoy watching animals suffer. They cannot relate to this.

[demokatgurrl]

46. In fact, last election there was a group of hunters

"Hunters Against Bush", or something like that- "Sportsmen Against Bush"? They were opposed to Bush because his disastrous environmental policies threatened the places they wanted for hunting.
I wish they'd resurface now.

[Skwmom]

47. Let me see - how did that election end up? Oh yeah, Bush got another 4 years.

[OwnedByFerrets]

122. He got 4 more years because he stole Ohio....he didnt win it.

[Skwmom]

50. Well there are NON Hunters who will look at this and say, that Sarah is one tough broad.

[faithfulcitizen]

58. How do you know? Have you met one yet? I don't think you're likely to.

[amborin]

67. whenever i see a cartoonish pic of palin wielding a machine gun, i think it resonates

with huge swaths of working class voters

[Skwmom]

74. Ya think that might be why the right has put tons of those pictures out there?

Nah, it couldn't be.

[faithfulcitizen]

113. I tend to agree with you there. But, this ad is something entirely different.

[truebrit71]

73. "one tough broad" by allowing the slaughter of Wolves and Bears from helicopters?

Wow.. you have some twisted sense of reality...

[Skwmom]

90. And you don't understand that there is a portion of the American Public that think this way.

That's not what I think but I don't just assume that EVERYONE thinks like me.

[truebrit71]

101. There's also a portion of the American that won't EVER vote for a black man...

...so what's your point?

The ignorant, knuckle-draggers were ALWAYS going to vote for that blood-thirsty bitch...this ad is about informing those independents out there about what kind of cold-blood killer Caribou Barbie really is....

[Raineyb]

135. Tough?

How tough is it to fly over an animal and shoot it from an airplane. It's cowardly and bullying. Wolves do not equate to terrorists.

Regards

[WinkyDink]

48. We don't kill deer from airplanes in PA.

P.S. I'm anti-hunting.

[vanderBeth]

49. She looks tough? Some undecided woman who they are trying to get with the "mom" vote

will see pictures of Palin and dead wolves.

[faithfulcitizen]

60. not to mention that pic of her with her caribou kill with 5 year old daughter.

[blondeatlast]

87. EXACTLY. That's exactly what I thought about. nt

[faithfulcitizen]

52. And another... their original (longer) video changed the minds of 2 of my extreme RW family.

They have never voted for a dem in their life. I think they are both racist. But THIS is what did it for them. Go figure.

[Bread and Circus]

55. Actually, I think it might be a turn off to women. It's a gamble though because it does make her...

look like a bloodthirsty killer and that might play well as the tough CIC.

[Skwmom]

66. Exactly. Why run an ad that will help her with SOME voters.

The 527 ads should be the type that WILL only lose votes for the incompetent McNutzs

[Skwmom]

61. Added to my original post:

There are many SWING non hunters who will see this ad and think it backs up Sarah is tough enough to take on those Washington politicians and terrorists. And if you can't understand that, I don't know what to say.

When elections are close and you are fighting for EVERY vote shouldn't the following be a cardinal rule in making attack ads:

Don't make an ad that may be viewed by some voters as favorable to the person the ad is targeting (that is, Sarah is one tough person, isn't a squeamish woman and will do whatever it takes to clean up Washington and defeat the terrorists). Just saying the 527s might want to think about it.

Can't we run TRUTH ads that won't garner them votes from anyone. Like exposing her for the corrupt politician she is.

[lukasahero]

127. "And if you can't understand that..."

You are virtually alone in your opinion on this thread - why do you think the majority of the responders here are stupid and you alone are all-knowing?

Maybe you should be working in the field of political advertising?

In the meantime, feel free to voice your opinion but try to refrain from implying those who disagree with you are stupid.

[RichGirl]

62. Toughness is looking your enemy in the eye.

Show me one action film where the hero shoots his enemy in the back and the audience cheers! Sitting snug and cozy in your helicopter while the wolf has no defense at all...is immense weakness and cruelty. You would have to be a simple-minded moron to see that as toughness and she already has that vote.

According to the statistics, fear of terrorism is not on top of the list of concerns. Very few people will make the connection of wolf=Osama bin laden. This ad will effect mothers, independents, animal lovers, anyone with a brain and an ounce of decency.

[amborin]

65. i donate

to defenders of wildlife

have not seen what you're talking about

but, i do see some ad (is it at the top of du occasionally?)

it's kind of a cartoon ad, showing palin weilding a big machine gun

this imagery will resonate with so many working class

WHERE ARE OUR COUNTER PUNCH ADS?

[PVnRT]

68. What ad are you watching?

What possible connection could be made between this and terrorists in anyone but an already diseased right-winger's mind?

Most hunter's I've known would think that the people hunting from the air are fucking sissies who aren't real hunters.

[truebrit71]

69. Quite possibly the DUMBEST OP in recent memory...

...before opening up your mouth and slamming your foot at top-speed into it why not use your Google-Fu skills on the internets and do a little research...

Defenders of Wildlife are a superb organisation that have done a brilliant job squaring off against the anti-environmentalists currently running DC...

If you knew even the SLIGHTEST bit about the organisation you would know what a complete idiot you just showed yourself to be...

They deserve our respect and our help...

[Skwmom]

72. Call me stupid if you want. Just because it's a great organization doesn't mean

it does a great job of creating political attack ads.

Oh that's right, the left has been winning on the environmental issues for years. Silly me.

[truebrit71]

80. Stop proving beyond a doubt that you know nothing about which you speak...

...they have been HIGHLY effective over the years, and if you knew ANYTHING about them you would already know this...

There are many of us that hold this particular issue near and dear to our hearts and are highly appreciative of the efforts by Defenders and their like-minded partners to see that the senseless and unjustifiable slaughter of these and other animals does not go unprotested.

Defenders just recently was able through the legal action brought forth by EarthJustice.org to put a halt to the hunting of Gray Wolves in the Rockies after the bush cronies delisted them from the endangered species list...

But yeah, they know nothing about attack ads...:eyes: Whatever...

[Skwmom]

88. Highly effective? Oh do tell. Is that why we've had Republican presidents

the last 16 out of 24 years and the Dems just won back Congress in 06.

We are not talking about legal action here. We are talking about winning an election.

[truebrit71]

92. Defenders of Wildlife is not a 527...do you not understand that?

Their sole purpose is to educate people about environmental issues and get them motivated to help out.

Their job is NOT to be an attack dog for one party or another...

Do you get it now?

[Skwmom]

103. Then maybe they should not run political ads that could end up

helping to elect the very people whose policies they oppose?

If it's just a way to raise funds, well, there is a little something called an election to win.

[BronxBoy]

146. Obviously not

since she's been told it 20 times already

[codjh9]

115. HUH? The main purpose of the Defenders of Wildlife is not to win a presidential election.

Other major environmental groups DO try to influence voters, but not DoW. They've got enough to contend with regarding what they DO do.

[Skwmom]

144. HUH? Aren't they running a political ad? Isn't that what I'm commenting on?

[blondeatlast]

99. You are stupid and hysterical. Oops you only gave me permission to call you stupid.

My bad.

[redqueen]

75. I'm starting to notice a pattern...

[LostinVA]

112. I've been noticing it for months

But, I think many posters didn't see it because it was mainly directed at Hillary Hysteria.

[greendog]

76. Not hunters. Aerial exterminators.

The practice is barbaric and doesn't have anything to do with hunting.

The people who think this is cool aren't going to vote for us anyway.

[SteppingStone]

81. Exactly! Most Alaskans don't like this barbaric practice either.

They voted against it twice but Sarah rammed it through with big money backing.

[TwilightGardener]

78. What? That's a really weird association. You have an overheated imagination.

Most people would just see what's there--an animal desperately running for its life in the snow, exhausted and nowhere to hide, and then it's gunned down. I really, really can't see a natural leap to terrorists, and if someone does make that connection, they sure as hell ain't voting for Obama in any case.

[Skwmom]

82. It's the tough image they are trying to sell. Why in the heck do you think they have put out

so many pictures of her with guns and hunting?

[iamthebandfanman]

86. why arent you asking them this instead of DU ?

they have a big robust website after all...

ever think of visiting and contacting someone with the group or was ur plan just to come on DU and bitch and moan ?

[TwilightGardener]

97. There's a difference between the cutesy "I'm a tough girl" act that

people seem to get a kick out of, and a policy that a Governor approves of that is demonstrably and gut-wrenchingly cruel. People like the pictures of her with a gun, they like that image, it's Annie Oakley frontier stuff--but I don't think many people are going to find this ad appealing. I live in a rural area of a red state, and while some of the folks I'm surrounded by would not mind the ad, the suburban folks probably aren't going to see her in the same positive light.

[Virginia Dare]

116. Absolutely, they are playing to the suburban soccer mom here..

the ones who think they can "identify" with the Barracuda. This is a side of her they haven't seen.

[TwilightGardener]

124. Right--and most of America lives in places where wolves are admired, not despised, as

in maybe parts of Montana and WY, where ranchers may be up close and personal with them and don't like them. There's a sense that they're already at a disadvantage because of habitat loss--it's hard to see anyone watching this slaughter and thinking, "Yeah!! Go Sarah! Get those wolves!" I just think many people would feel sad and disgusted.

[Raineyb]

136. Aerial "hunting" is not hunting it's slaughter

How showing people how disgusting this practice is hurts Obama is beyond me. I think the ad is spot on. Good on them!

Regards

[iamthebandfanman]

83. maybe you are a rove group

cause itd have as much validity as your suggestions...


theyve been around since 2001 as a political action group for wildlife since there was none.

[Ioo]

84. I think this ad makes her look like a cold-blooded evil person, and I like it!

RUN THE CRAP OUT OF THIS AD

[budkin]

91. Excuse me but this isn't hunting.

FAIL.

[Neecy]

95. good god....

I'm getting bone-tired with the endless hand-wringing that goes on in here....I don't like this ad, this one will DESTROY Obama....oh please someone think of the hunters! Even though most hunters would be repulsed by this tactic....whaaaaaaaaa.

Get a grip. Every damn ad isn't the end of the world.

[Liberalynn]

98. Metaphors are a complex thing

Do you think people who could have their vote swayed to McSame for any reason even have the intelligence to understand the concept of metaphors at all especially one as obscure as the one you are suggesting?

[McCamy Taylor]

102. This ad makes her look mean. Real hunters do not use planes.

Also, hunters tend to identify with wolves and bears---predators. Lots of middle class people do, too. The lone wolf or rugged individual mythos of America. The thought of some rich guy or gal shooting one of us down from a plane for sport really hits a nerve.

Go to a mall. Look at the T-shirts people wear. Check out the wolf and bear T-shirts. Esp. in the American west.

Palin has two big weaknesses. One is her screwball religion. The other is that she is mean . I do not think that Karl Rove has ever done a woman in politics before. He does not understand that Americans will not tolerate coldness, harshness, vindictiveness or meanness is a woman in power.

It is too late for Palin. It was too late the moment they let her deliver her sarcastic, mean spirited speech at the RNC. The public will watch her as a celebrity, but they will never tolerate her in a position of authority. She will remind them too much of the wicked step mother.

All the Dems have to do at this point is keep stressing

1) wacked out evangelical

2) mean

[Skwmom]

111. I didn't understand that ONLY hunters are going to see this political ad.

Silly me, I thought that undecided voters would be viewing it.

Guess what mean cuts both ways. And some people don't exactly think mean is a dis-qualifier.

Don't you think you left out a major weakness:

That she is a corrupt liar. Now, no one can really support a corrupt liar. Unlike some that will say yeah she is mean but heck you got to be mean to stand up to corrupt politicians, clean up Washington and take on those terrorists.

Plus, I think it's going to be hard to make mean stick, because Ms. Moosehead, or whatever she was, is extremely good at turning on the charm. Didn't you hear, even her adversaries in Alaska are saying she's got a great charm/likability factor going for her. Plus, they'll just argue that she's acting that way b/c as a woman, everyone knows you have to be tough to win in politics. And let's not forgot the old....to wimpy Democrats, heck any female that would fight back would appear mean.

I just don't see the mean line of attack as a winner b/c it can be used to paint the left as weak and her as tough.

Crazy end of times nut and corrupt liar. That's the ticket and it's the truth.

[bornskeptic]

140. I think the voters who would be encouraged to support Palin by this

would probably consist primarily of deranged serial killers.Hopefully Deranged Serial Killers for McCain won't be a decisive factor in November.

[xchrom]

104. are the DU-CLUELESS awards coming up? nt

[TwilightGardener]

105. So..a hundred-some responses, anyone agree with you yet?

[Skwmom]

114. Well since I was one of the few that didn't jump on the Bush propaganda bandwagon after 9/11 and

saw through the utter manipulation the moment it began, just b/c many disagree with me doesn't mean I'm wrong.

[TwilightGardener]

117. I didn't either. I always saw the Chimp for what he was, even with the "bullhorn" moment.

But you really are overthinking this one. It doesn't show Palin with a gun, looking all frontiery and feisty, it just shows the savage and cruel effect of her policy. It won't turn people away from Obama, because it's not an ad by or for Obama. But it may turn off some McCain-leaning Dems, swing voters and animal-loving GOPers, and there won't be many people who are going to suddenly be attracted to her because of this.

[Virginia Dare]

126. But you approve of letting Sarah Palin continue to spew her propaganda?

that she is mainstream enough to be Vice President? This ad clearly lends facts against that.

[Skwmom]

129. Heck no. She should be exposed for the corrupt, lying, end of times lunatic

that she is.

[Virginia Dare]

132. Only a lunatic would support this type of activity..

if you think we will lose lunatic voters over this ad, so be it, as you say they weren't voting Obama anyway.

[LostinVA]

106. They are a GREAT organization, and certainly not a "Rove Group"

Good grief.

[Doremus]

125. If you think advocating a cowardly sport like aerial hunting shows strength

I'm going to have to look up the definition again.

Ball-less wonders partake in aerial hunting. Scruple-less mama's boys who as kids pulled wings off flies and blew frogs up with firecracks and as adults would probably crap their pants in fright if they had to hunt a wild animal on foot.

Yet you say people who support this are STRONG?

Sorry, but that's the most bizarre thing I've heard in awhile.

The ad is effective. Ethical sports hunters, hell, anyone with a pet at home, will be shocked and repulsed by the Killa from Wasilla. Good.

[Skwmom]

128. On reflection:

Maybe this ad in target markets will end up being a net positive. Here's hoping for the best.

[Eyes_wide_ open]

139. in that case

let me apologize for the angry tone of my reply downthread. It gets very frustrating here on DU sometimes when so many are attacking others on our side that are doing what they can to help the cause.

We all leap to conclusions sometimes, but I'm happy to find someone that is willing to rethink their position and admit maybe someone else does have a point.

[ClarkUSA]

130. Defenders of Wildlife is a great conservation group that's opposed aerial wolf shooting for years

I belong to it and have contributed to the defense fund. They have also been part of lawsuits demanding the endangered
listing of polar bears and any number of valuable conservation efforts. Their logo is a howling wolf amid towering conifers
with a full moon background.

[flvegan]

131. I glued my head to my shoulder, now I have two owies

[AZBlue]

133. FIRST OF ALL, Defenders of Wildlife is no Republican ad group!

Why don't you look into yourself before posting such an inane OP? They are staunch supporters of wildlife and animal rights and are extremely opposed to Sarah Palin's candidacy. As a matter of fact, they've opposed her since she became governor and it's through them that I knew of her brutal nature long before McCain chose her as his VP candidate. They've long acted as an opponent of her barbaric policies.

Secondly, you don't understand hunting very well if you think that this appeals to hunters. The vast majority of hunters live by the rule of shooting to kill on the first shot so the animal dies immediately and doesn't suffer. And, hunters in general make fun of those who use helicopters to do their hunting. That practice is looked down upon even in the hunting population.

Lastly, your premise that there's some magical ad somewhere that will not appeal to anyone is absurd. There's always an opposing viewpoint and always someone who will simply look at the negative ad as a lie and a smear. The goal is to reach the majority of viewers - as this ad certainly will.

I'm most disturbed by your thinking what is presented in this ad makes her look tough on terrorism. I honestly have to say that where your mind goes is a very dark place maybe you should look at that.

But again, next time do a little research before posting such a ridiculous statement as the one above.

[Forkboy]

137. "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool....

...than to open it and remove all doubt."

[Eyes_wide_ open]

138. Who the hell are you? Are YOU brain dead?

Rove group? Republican ad group? hmm ... have reading comprehension problems much? Before we do any really drastic research like, oh I don't, maybe checking our their website or anything why don't we try just looking at their name. Defenders of Wildlife ... what kind of group could that be? What might they represent? Duh! Good grief you sound like the McCain campaign after the Lipstick on a pig comment.

Defenders of Wildlife is a wonderful organization of which I am a proud member. Surprisingly enough, despite their name :eyes: they are animal rights activists, with no party affiliation. And yes, contrary to what you may believe, there ARE Repubs and Indies that join their cause as well as Democrats. And ALL of them are appalled by the aerial shooting of wolves.

While I have my own reservations about this ad (it actually hurt me to watch it, brought me to tears) I find myself having to dispute every claim you make about because they are so blatantly wrong! Tough? Are you kidding? Cowardly acts such as this are as weak as they come. My guess would be that you don't actually know any hunters, if I'm wrong about that I suggest you talk to them about this and you'll see their attitude isn't quite what you think. Real hunters are disgusted by this practice, the last thing they consider it is hunting.

It's also obvious you know absolutely nothing about swing voters. Most of them are nature friendly, and no, they aren't ALREADY voting for Obama ... they are just NOW starting to pay attention and haven't made up their minds yet. They know less about Palin than they do Obama, and they certainly don't know that she participates in this, and it could be the thing that sways them.

And it takes a very twisted logic that would equate defenseless animals being shot in the snow with terrorists ... sorry, epic fail

I think you need to get out more, really.

[GrizzlyMan]

141. Animal lovers outnumber hunters 1000 to 1

Never understimate the power of tugging at their emotions. My only wish is that Palin supported clubbling baby seals.

[icanthelpit]

142. The very fact that this debate is occuring means it was a BAD ad

But it was not Obama. Remember, 527's have an agenda of their own. Obama isn't responsible for the good 527's nor the bad ones. You just hope that the people that run them are thinking of the big picture.

[LostinVA]

153. This IS no debate, just taking theOP to task -- and DOF isn't a 327

As has been said many times in this thread.

The ad is powerful and effective. It caused a colleague (who had never heard of them before the ad) to donate $100 to them, and to email the ad to several McCain-leaning friends.

[Two Americas]

147. not sure

The ad will resonate strongly with those who already have a context for this. But it could backfire tactically, yes. I am not sure that this ad makes the issue clear to people, except those who already understand it.

Here are some of the things that the average person could get from the ad, at the risk of being attacked as though I were promoting these interpretations - the images of the carcass of the dead animal and especially the wounded animal have a strong emotional impact on us, but both of those are possible in any sort of hunting scenario. Is sport hunting or trophy hunting from airplanes being subsidized or encouraged? The ad could be describing some sort of "wildlife management" effort in the minds of some viewers. What is Palin's direct involvement? What is the context for all of this? I realize that people should know all of this background, but what should be and what is are two different things.

I appreciate your attempt to separate out tactics from ideals, but that is obviously not being well received here. I wish people would focus more on results, as the right wingers do, and less on being right. Being right is the consolation prize in politics, and it is frustrating and discouraging that so many people are willing to accept it yet again.

I think that many tactics we use do backfire, that this could, and that discussing the relative effectiveness of tactics is constructive and valuable. If we are unwilling to do that we cripple the cause and are placing being right about the cause above effectively advancing the cause - we settle for feelings rather than going for results. Unfortunately, too many believe that getting everyone to feel the same way we do, if that is even possible, is what gets results, despite all evidence to the contrary.

[wiseoldman]

148. Began hunting when I was 10 years old....

All my friends are hunters and more importantly sportsmen and sportswomen. Everyone here in northwest Montana hunts, and I have never met a hunter and sportsman who thinks shooting wildlife from an airplane or helicopter is sport. What absolutly boggles my mind is that Palin would instigate an aerial hunt in spring/early summer when the moms are having and nursing their pups.

The ad from defenders of wildlife is AWESOME.... Thank you Defenders of Wildlife for taking this to the public....

I have been sending out the link and info below to all my friends for several days. Everyone, republican and democrat alike. find her aerial assault on wolves disgusting.


==========================================================================================
I am one of the fortunate ones. I was not among the fourteen wolf puppies which were illegally shot and killed in their den as part of Gov. Palin’s aerial wolf kill this summer in Alaska. Someone please tell me what kind of woman launches a big aerial hunt at a time when our mothers are nursing their newborn? Is that something that a responsibly hunter, or a responsible mother would do?

http://www.adn.com/wildlife/story/491012.html

[ClarkUSA]

149. THANK YOU - some people forget that most hunters are conservationists, too

That story is so sad.

[DefenseLawyer]

150. If you want to conflate rich guys hunting from a plane

with fighting terrorism, I'm pretty sure no ad is going to sway you away from McCain/Palin.

[crazy_vanilla]

152. it should be known

I don't care. It's disgusting and it should be known. This ad will NOT win votes for ImPalin'

[GoddessOfGuinness]

154. No. It makes her look like a puppy killer.

This heinous practice has resulted in 14 wolf puppies being killed.