Hepburn
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:20 PM
Original message |
I am hearing that Obama and Biden voted FOR the Bridge to Nowhere... |
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...does anyone have the facts on this? I am not satisfied that I have a definite answer. If you have any links, I would appreciate them. An Obama supporter asked me about this...and I am stumped.
TIA....:hi:
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Kurt_and_Hunter
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message |
1. They did, though of course as part of an immense omnibus spending bill |
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Edited on Sun Sep-14-08 01:22 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
There is seldom a speciffic vote on something like that. It's bundled up in the whole national highway funding bill.
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Hepburn
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
2. Thanks....I thought that is what I found... |
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...but not sure because of how complex the info was on this bill.
:hi:
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AzNick
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Mon Sep-15-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
36. And that is not the issue ... |
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The issue is that Palin said she voted against it while she did not.
Well-spent pork can be useful, especially for such states as... Alaska or... Arizona, where the I10 between Phoenix and Tucson has to be one of the most dangerous piece of Highway in the country.
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Canuckistanian
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Mon Sep-15-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
37. That's what I don't understand |
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Palin is a Governor. She doesn't HAVE a vote where Congressional bills are concerned.
Since when does she have control over what Stevens asks for?
This whole "I turned down the Bridge to Nowhere" thing is bullshit.
She didn't have a say in it.
Am I wrong?
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Ramius
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Tue Sep-16-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #37 |
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In 2006, Palin ran for governor on a "build-the-bridge" platform, attacking "spinmeisters" for insulting local residents by calling them "nowhere" and urging speed "while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist." About two years after the introduction of the bridge proposals, a month after the bridge received sharp criticism from John McCain, and nine months into Palin's term as governor, Palin "canceled" the Gravina Bridge, blaming Congress for not providing enough funding. Alaska will not return any of the $442 million to the federal government and is spending a portion of the funding, $25 million, on a Gravina Island road to the place where the bridge would have gone, expressly so that none of the money will have to be returned. Palin continues to support funding Don Young's Way, estimated as more than twice as expensive as the Gravina Bridge would have been.
In addition it might be interesting to know that Palin was Chairperson of Steven's reelection campaign and she gathered up $27 million in subsidies from Washington, $15 million of it for a railroad from her town to the ski resort hometown of Senator Ted Stevens, now under indictment for failing to report gifts.
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Canuckistanian
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Tue Sep-16-08 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
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You seem to be quite knowledgeable on Alaska politics.
That'll come in handy around here.
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rufus dog
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Tue Sep-16-08 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
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that thing is still not two lanes! I haven't been on that stretch since the early 90's
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AzNick
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Tue Sep-16-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
41. Yes, still the same disgrace of a road |
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With cracks, and all.
Regularly people have accidents. Sometimes even truckers.
Even the I10 from LA to Phoenix is in better shape than this.
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marshall
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Sun Sep-14-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
16. Anyone know how McCain voted? |
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Is there some website where one can look it up?
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msallied
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message |
3. They didn't vote FOR the bridge. They voted for the spending bill. |
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Which itself was laden with pork, as we know. That's the unfortunate trick about being a Senator. If they'd not voted for it, some very important items on it would have been voted down.
Of course, that there is one argument in favor of a line-item veto for the President, even if it was eventually ruled unconstitutional (for good reason). It would be nice if Congress could simply STOP with the earmarking and pork business altogether. THAT'S where true change is going to come from, and sadly, the President can't really do a whole lot about that.
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shraby
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
5. Line-item veto is putting too much power |
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in the hands of one person. It's also unconstitutional because only congress has the purse strings.
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JBoris
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. Amen. Dem or repub, I don't want that power in anyone's hands. nt |
msallied
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
11. Ummm, that's why I said "for good reason." |
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I'm just saying, it would be nice if there was a way to strike the BS from a spending bill before it was signed, but the only option that they've come up with is bad.
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karynnj
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
28. The variation that Kerry proposed in 2004 was inmteresting |
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It required the Senate and House to have to pass the set of all the lines eliminated. This is interesting as it gives the power back tho the Congress If the President eliminated things too many people support, it will fail. It also is public, so if the President used it to punish opponents or areas of the country, it would backfire. I'm sure I don't have all the details right or even all the details period It was interesting as it does counter the "log rolling" where Senators vote for each other's pork.
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littlebit
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
msallied
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
13. Wow, did you read what I wrote? |
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It would appear you didn't. You're thinking like a Republican.
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littlebit
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
14. No I am thinking like most people |
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who don't have time for long drawn out bullshit answers. The fact is they both voted for it. It is that simple.
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msallied
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
19. If they voted "for" the bridge, then the bridge would have been its own separate bill. |
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And THEN we could accurately say whether or not Obama/Biden voted FOR the bridge.
The truth is, they didn't. They voted for the vital parts of a gigantic omnibus spending bill. They can't just decide to vote for parts of it. Either you vote for the whole bill with the pork attached, or you vote nay and scrap away all of the vitally-needed expenditures with it.
If you don't have time for intelligent answers, you're in the wrong party.
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merh
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Sun Sep-14-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
15. Didn't that spending bill contain provisions for the troops/veterans? |
Sugarcoated
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
21. I thought that was the case . . . |
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Edited on Sun Sep-14-08 03:20 PM by Sugarcoated
Google time . . .
On Edit - clicked on the link below, and from what I can make of it, it's mainly an infrastructure bill.
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vaberella
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
22. That's what I thought too...I can't remember though myself. Which would explain the support. n/t |
merh
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
23. they wrapped the earmarks in with important funding |
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I can't recall if it was veterans or health care or what, but it wasn't just the earmarks for the damn state of palin next to russia.
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Sugarcoated
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Sun Sep-14-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
29. Someone posted a link below |
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Edited on Sun Sep-14-08 04:18 PM by Sugarcoated
It's a massive bill and I did a quick skim, but I didn't see any military/war/veteran expenditures in it. It's actually a link to a link. I'll post the actual web page link on edit. I could've missed something in it, take a look: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/109/bills/h_r_3058/
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merh
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Sun Sep-14-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
33. it was the healthcare bill |
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Edited on Sun Sep-14-08 05:10 PM by merh
A bill to amend the Public Health Service Act to consolidate and reauthorize health professions and minority and disadvantaged health professions and disadvantaged health education programs, and for other purposes.
and veterans
An original bill making appropriations for the Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development, and for sundry independent agencies, commissions, corporations, and offices for the fiscal year ending September 30, 1999, and for other purposes.
and a host of other funding measures for important projects like head start -
It looks like if it hadn't passed the federal government would have shut down, it funding all of the federal agencies.
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Malidictus Maximus
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Sun Sep-14-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
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is *sometimes* another person's vitally needed infrastructure improvement.
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BumRushDaShow
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Sun Sep-14-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
30. Been there, done that. |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_Item_Veto_Act_of_1996">Line Item Veto Act of 1996 which ironically gave Clinton that power (and he used it). But it was ruled unconstitutional 2 years later (imagine that, 'cause a Dem now had that power instead of a repuke). ;)
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hlthe2b
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message |
4. I know you know this as others have replied similarly... |
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but to equate a vote for an onmibus spending bill, to which this pork has been subtly buried within, to voting FOR the Bridge to Nowhere is so disingenuous, or willfully ignorant, that only a RW Moran would truly and unquestionably buy it. Of course THEY are the ones seeking to spread it...
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Hepburn
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message |
6. Thanks again to the DU.... |
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...I thought this was pretty much what had gone on ~~ and that the statement was misleading. Yes, they both voted for a bill that contained this funding...but they did not with specificity for for that bridge.
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zabet
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message |
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with link to vote records. Doesn't paint it in the best light but, you can get to the votes from here. http://cdobs.com/archive/our-columns/obama-and-biden-voted-for-bridge-to-nowhere,1628/
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subterranean
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:30 PM
Response to Original message |
9. They are not out there shouting that they opposed it. |
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They may have voted for whatever bill it was slipped into, but they did not actively support the bridge. And they're not falsely claiming that they fought against it. That's the difference.
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Lex
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Sun Sep-14-08 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
1corona4u
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
24. That's the real factor... |
AngryAmish
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Sun Sep-14-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message |
aint_no_life_nowhere
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message |
20. Obama and Biden had better have a short and convincing explanation |
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I'm sure this is going to come up in the debates.
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NotThisTime
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
25. Pretty simple, tied up with important legislation, but furthermore, they AREN'T running as non-pork |
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requesting Republican's who seem to absolutely shun the idea that some of that spending might actually go to useful projects... However, McShame & Unable ARE... Obama and Biden don't have to come up with any answer other than it was tied in with other legislation. Palin is the one in charge of that puppy...
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karynnj
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message |
26. They voted for the omnibus budget bill that included it |
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They also voted against a Coburn amendment that was said to take all earmarks and assign the money to children's health care or Katrina victims' support - he uses different things each year The problem is that if passed - it would kill the buget compromise - I think it also included some unpalatable otehr things. It was not just Obama and Biden, it was nearly every Democrat.
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bunkerbuster1
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Sun Sep-14-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message |
27. Did they lie about it? Repeatedly? 23 times? |
mzmolly
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Sun Sep-14-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message |
31. I honestly don't give a rats hind end about this bridge. The issue is that Palin LIED |
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not that anyone vote for or against it.
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AZ Criminal JD
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Sun Sep-14-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
32. Only someone who pays no taxes |
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would say they "don't give a rat's hind end" about the bridge.
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mzmolly
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Sun Sep-14-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
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and again, I don't give a rats ass if someone voted for the bridge. What I do care about is that someone who said they were "against" it was actually "for" it. I'd never heard of the bridge before Palin made it an issue.
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AZ Criminal JD
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Mon Sep-15-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #34 |
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I have heard about the bridge long before I ever heard about Palin. Do a google search and you will find hundreds of news articles about it before the primaries even began.
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mzmolly
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Mon Sep-15-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
TheKentuckian
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Tue Sep-16-08 12:23 AM
Response to Original message |
39. I'm thinking that actually running based on "Thanks but no thanks" |
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is the issue.
This is seriously one of the main reasons this person was tapped for the job and she's full of it. It is entirely besides the point of who voted for it as they aren't suggesting we vote for them based on this stance.
Palin is straight bull.
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MagickMuffin
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Tue Sep-16-08 01:19 AM
Response to Original message |
43. Here's another question concerning this bill |
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How do we know this wasn't slipped in AFTER the vote?.?.?
The republicons if I may refresh your memory, did this during the wiretapping fiasco. Remember Diane Feinstein found out about it AFTER everyone had voted. Arlen Specter's office then added additional info to the bill in the wee hours of the night, after everyone had gone home.
Of course this was an Appropriations Bill, so there was a lot of stuff crammed in them. That's why they are referred to as earmarks and "Pork Barrel" spending.
:hi:
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