Two friends are not going to vote. I tried.

[Gregorian]

Apathy is killing what citizen involvement this country has. I see Palin, and I'm telling as many people as I can to get involved.

I just had a most distrubing morning. I got a degree in mechanical engineering, and made a friend while there. Over the last few years he has become the president of a natural gas refinement company. He's no idiot. I also happen to know that he likes Garrison Keillor. I figured I could talk to him. WRONG! I was abruptly stopped with an angry voice when I decided to bring up Obama, Palin, McCain. His comment was that they're all politicians. He's not going to vote. And he's not going to talk about it.

I then decided to call someone I've known for nearly forty years. He's very left wing. I remember him laughing when he was hired to play for one of the republican conventions years ago. He owns a sophisicated recording studio in San Francisco. He completely understands, and is totally up to speed on all of the things we discuss here. But he's not going to vote. He's not going to even register, because he claims he doesn't have the time for jury duty.

I'm sitting totally floored. Like a trap door just opened and I fell down it. And I had to post here for no reason other than theraputic purposes. edit- therapeutic. Therapeutic! God damnit. Sorry. Just a spelling moment.

These are two bright, successful people. Not right wing nutcases.

So what does this say about America? If even the smart ones are apathetic?

I refuse to feel like a neurotic because I am involved, and care about the quality of my country.

To be a citizen of America means to be involved. If one isn't involved, they are not a citizen. That is how I feel this day. I know that's not by definition how it is.

Someone talk to me. I honestly feel really hopeless. "What is Obama going to do for the people?" That's what one of them asked. I told him. And I told him what Obama wouldn't do.

I honestly feel hopeless. Not just because of my fear of an unguided country, but because as far as I'm concerned, I lost two good friends this morning.

[rockymountaindem]

1. Jury duty isn't even decided by voter registration

They get it from your driver's license these days. That's just a cop-out.

[lligrd]

4. True, Wonder If He's Willing To Give Up Driving? nt

[Doremus]

5. Depends where you live. They use voter reg. here.

My mother didn't want to register for that reason. I talked her into it and wouldn't you know, a year later they called her to jury duty.

[morillon]

44. Voting doesn't guarantee jury duty.

I've lived in the same zip code for 14 years and been a registered voter the whole time. I have never been called for jury duty.

That's the dumbest excuse for not registering to vote I've ever heard of!

[Doremus]

48. As I said, the methods vary from region to region.

I was correcting the poster who said NOBODY uses voter reg. for jury pools. That is simply wrong.

Whether it's a dumb excuse not to register is beside the point I was making.

Hope that clears up your confusion.

[Gregorian]

10. This guy's a stubborn producer. But thanks for that.

I think it's a cop out too. He's a lazy ass.

This is why I love du. I get support that makes a diff.

[1corona4u]

17. LOL, I just posted that too...

that's how they do it here in Florida.

[BumRushDaShow]

31. No it isn't.

Not here in PA:

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6238382

Sadly I have heard alot of excuses like this too because in order to "broaden the jury pool", they do use it. Note that many poor don't have driver's licenses (no car and they use public transit) and many still haven't applied for a non-driver's driver's license for ID purposes.

[faithfulcitizen]

42. It is in Indiana.

[bluestateguy]

52. If they are California voters, let's not worry about it

You tried, and that's noble, but we are in good shape in CA.

[liberalmuse]

2. I have one friend like that too.

I've been trying for years to get her to register to vote, but she will not even discuss it. She's says government is too fucked up and voting is useless. I have lost so much respect for her, and at times feel like she's selfish and self involved.

[Gregorian]

14. How's thaf for circular logic!

What blindness.

Well, at least I'm not alone. But yes, I've lost respect for this guy. He's only one of the most talented people I've ever known.

[Captain Hilts]

3. THIS is why polling firms err on over-sampling self-identified Republicans....

they have better turnout rates than Democrats have. The firms are just reflecting reality.

I just heard some folks talk about writing in instead of voting for either.

[AndyTiedye]

29. These People Wouldn't Poll as Democrats, Would They Even Poll At All?

If you're not a registered voter, you are not even counted in the poll.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. I hear your despair...

And it's a tough place to be.

I don't want to sound like a pollyanna, but I think people like your former friends are rare these days.

Two people do not mean the whole country is apathetic.

I'm sorry for them, and for anyone like them.

:hug:

[Gregorian]

18. Phew. Let's hope that's right.

These are two extremely bright people.

I'll not take this personally. I like how you put it. But it does hurt. Thanks so much.

[movonne]

20. There is always a certain percentage of the country that just won't

vote...so we have to go after the ones that do...and if we are lucky the youth votes will increase the percentage...they have not been motivated as they are now...and we just have to hope they vote..

[rzemanfl]

7. My two cents is that the first guy made an uneasy accomodation

to his employment situation, which is probably half a vote for Obama he doesn't get one but neither does McSame. The second guy is just lazy and self-centered I am sure there is a lazy self-centered Repuke out there to balance him out. Besides, Obama has California locked.

[Gregorian]

19. Yes! Great thoughts.

I had thought about California being sewn up. But not about the balancing part.

However, the other guy is in New Mexico. If I recall, they could use Dem votes.

I will refrain from taking this too seriously and personal. Thanks.

[Divernan]

24. Suggest if they're not going to vote, the least they can do is make fat contributions to Obama.

[rzemanfl]

28. Excellent suggestion for the California guy. The gas company

guy probably can't afford to show up on a donor list.

[movonne]

8. Well they would have voted green party anyway...

[Vinca]

9. I don't get it. You can cut some slack to the bona fide stupid people,

but when intelligent people are willing to let their country go down the drain . . . I don't get it.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

11. If they don't vote, they can't complain.

[FrenchieCat]

12. Let him know

that if McCain/Palin wins because of people like him, than he can go to sleep knowing that somewhere a victim of incest will be having her relatives' baby ....and if he wants to be in that number, than he is in essence indirectly guilty of furthering the abuse of children and ruining their lives.

Tough love, I know.

[Gregorian]

22. If only I could quickly think while on my feet.

So many good comebacks, so little time.

However, I did mention that even if not for America, it's for those living on the business end of our guns in Iraq.

I tried.

[mscuedawg]

13. A friend of mine said the other day, I dont vote...and I said...

they YOU have NO RIGHT to complain!!!!

[Indiana_Dem]

15. Where are they living?

If they're from a blue state then don't fret too much.

I just got done canvassing. I live in red, rural, small town IN. Out of 20 houses I just did and of the people that were home, 10 for Obama and NONE for McCain!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you believe it!? I'm having a VERY good day after this! Get this one--two of them were Republicans and own a small business in town!!! lol Awesome!

So don't lose hope! I'm getting results like this every time I go out! Don't believe the hype! Don't let a few get you down because for every one like that, there are a few who ARE going for change, and some of them for the first time!

[Gregorian]

23. YES! Now that feels good.

One is in New Mexico. So they probably need our votes.

Thank you. That brings a very positive note to this.

And it may just be that I won't be bothering myself by spending serious time with either of these two people.

I know what I like. And it's exemplified by everyone on this forum. Smart, caring people.

Thanks.

[1corona4u]

16. You should tell the one who won't register to vote, because of jury duty...

that some states are now using drivers licenses to pick jurors. They do here in Florida, and I'm sure there are other states that do as well. You could personally with the state, and let him know. Then he would have no reason not to vote.

The other one- not much you can do.

[Divernan]

21. You never know. They may be thinking over what you told them.

It's like raising teenagers. When it came to important issues and I laid down the law, I explained my reasoning. I didn't argue, I didn't plead. I didn't engage in meaningful dialog. Neither did I ever expect an immediate "Oh Mom, we see the wisdom of your logic and totally agree with you." Usually though, they came around - at least in the sense that they followed the rule without sulking, arguing, etc. And in the long run, they figured out I knew what I was talking about. I picked my battles, so to speak, and don't think I was an overly controlling parent. There were just some lines that would not be crossed.

So maybe, your efforts will eventually bear fruit. You made a good effort.

Why don't you send your story to Garrison Keillor? He just might say something on his show to get people like your friends out to register and vote.

[Gregorian]

30. Ah. Lovely comments.

I had no idea posting here would be this fruitful. Honestly, you bring up a superb point. Two points.

I like the idea of speaking to those who don't vote. And partly because I think many of them are apathetic because they are liberal. Just a hunch. I was that way. I dropped out for years. See? I came back for reasons I don't even recall at the moment. Oh, I got serious when Bush hit the scene.

Thanks so much!

[dccrossman]

25. The all politicians are the same argument...

Is the one I get.

In their minds, it really doesn't matter, and I gotta tell ya, the Democratic-controlled Congress since 2006 didn't do much to change their minds.

The big push-backs I get?
Why did the Congress approve several more supplementals for the war, instead of pushing back against the most unpopular POTUS in recent memory, if not ever?
For Obama specifically, why the FISA flip?

There are others, but those are the ones I get the most.

[dccrossman]

27. Oh, and thanks for the therapeutic release...

=)

[Egnever]

26. Well to be fair

your friend in SF wont matter. We will carry CA.

I don't know where your other friend is, but if he is in CA as well then not voting is not as serious as someone in say Ohio.

[Shine]

32. "You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean;....

...if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty."

~Mahatma Gandhi

Keep the faith. Stay positive. Hold the vision.

Don't get sucked in to FEAR.

False

Evidence

Appearing

Real

:toast: We will win this election!

[mnhtnbb]

33. I have been a registered voter for 36 years. I've been on jury duty once.

Tell your friend that JFK would be ashamed of him for not being willing to chance giving something of himself, for once.

On edit: And that one time of jury duty, one other woman juror and myself turned the jury from a guilty
to a not guilty verdict for an African-American man who had a very believable case of self-defense
in a fight against a white guy--in the south.

[ebdarcy]

34. Believe me, I know how frustrating it can be. My best friend won't vote, won't register, won't

get involved at all. She comes from a family of democrats, hates Bush, and I'm pretty sure she would vote democratic. I've tried repeatedly, but she's always got some excuse. She doesn't have the time, or it's never going to change. Her grandmother has been hounding her about voting. Nothing works.

In the end, you can't make them get involved if they don't want to be. There are some people that just can't be reached. It doesn't mean you have to stop trying, but you do have to make sure you don't let the disappointment eat at you. It's not your fault.

I'm sorry that you feel that you've lost your friends. :hug:

[Gregorian]

38. My dad's 107 year old republican friend might vote for Obama.

I just got off the phone, being excited about this thread. My dad's 84. His childhood doctor's wife is still alive. And she's spouting all of the republican talking points. But after working and working on her, she has stated that perhaps this might be the election where she votes Dem.

Woo hoo!

So we just might be making a difference after all. I really appreciate your post. And I hope you also feel more positive after this.

[ebdarcy]

40. That's great news about your dad's friend.

It's always nice to have someone come over from the dark side, so to speak. It's heartening to know that some people can be reached. I'm glad that this news has you feeling better.:)

[Frustratedlady]

35. I ran into the same type of thing this week. Not going to vote...

I asked them to think back to when Kerry lost. How did they feel? How long did it take them to pick themselves up and move on? Do you want to feel that way again?

All four of them got their backbone again and are going to vote for Obama.

For those who refuse to vote for him because he's Black, I ask them to vote for the white half. That comment is enough to snap them out of their attitude. They are embarrassed, but finally agree that they don't want McCain and will vote for Obama.

I offered to drive them all to vote.

[Gregorian]

39. If ever there were an important election, this is it.

I love your story. I probably give up too easily. I'm glad as hell that I posted here today.

[freespirit5]

36. Don't give up

Dont quit

[rufus dog]

37. Tell your friend Jury Duty in CA is Drivers License and Registration

They combine the list so if you have either they will find you. I know because I got called twice within a couple of months. Once under my given name and once under common use name. When I called them they corrected it so I wasn't in under both names.

[sunnybrook]

41. this kind of lazy apathy

is REALLY disgusting, when people have given their lives for the right to vote. I have a friend that marched from Selma to Montgomery and met violence with non-violence REPEATEDLY in the deep South to get voting rights. However, I understand your dilemma, and you have done your part, you have tried. Some people are incredibly stubborn and selfish. My cousin, who despises Bush, recently told me he is not going to vote this year. His excuse about Obama? He says Obama gives no specifics, gives "lofty rhetoric" doesn't say anything. I told him he has very detailed policy ideas, visit his web site, etc... but no he would not do that. The bottom line IMO (with my cousin) is race. He won't say that but I can read between the lines. He voted last time. All we can do is try, but like everyone is saying, be proud of yourself for making the effort, and do not waste your energy, there are many more persuadable voters out there, these were just bad luck. Obama needs you to keep trying!

[Gregorian]

54. Really good points.

I have to say that what you mentioned about those who paid heavy dues just to have the right to vote, does indeed tend to bring this back up to a far more serious level.

It's serious. Many just don't get it. And I will not eat my insides up over it.

But I thank you. It's a poignant reminder of what it's all about.

[Geek_Girl]

43. I had a dem friend tell me he wasn't going to bother voting this election

because we live in TN and McCain will win. I basically told him that the popular vote was going to be very important for the first elected African American president for political clout. Be the end of the conversation he said that he would vote.

[morillon]

45. I live in Georgia...

...and I'm NOT writing Georgia off. If y'all could see all these Obama stickers out on I-20 that I see every day on the way to work, you'd have hope, too. :-) Carroll, Douglas, and Cobb are formerly solid Repub districts, but you couldn't tell it these days with all the Obama stickers.

[Geek_Girl]

46. It seemed about a month ago GA was pink (leaning Repub)

I was pretty shocked

[morillon]

50. The latest Georgia poll is a psy-op, IMO, not a legit survey.

The company who did the poll showing McCain way the hell up is run by a Gingrich pal. The same guy writes foaming-at-the-mouth anti-Democrat screeds, so any poll coming from him is highly suspect.

I predict 50/40/10 Obama/McCain/Barr for Georgia.

[bluestateguy]

53. That was the logic I used in Texas in the last 2 elections

Help Gore/Kerry win the popular vote. It did sort of cast an embarassing pall over Bush in his first term that he came in second in the popular vote. I was proud to be a part of that.

[Odin2005]

47. A lot of people just don't care because they think all politicians are corrupt liars.

It is this pervasive cynicism, in the 30-50 age group especially, that depresses voter turnout. People think all politicians are the same and all tools of "special interests"

[Gregorian]

56. Cynicism. That's the other response I got.

I just got off the phone with yet another friend. A radio personality. It's just incredible how cynical he is. He's dead on about identifying the problems. It's not a uniform society. It's a melting pot. Bla, bla, bla. Yes, we have divisive problems. I just don't see how people can make that leap in logic that results in voting apathy.

However, I also just got off the phone with one of my oldest friends. A phd in forest pathology. He had every single Oliphant cartoon on Nixon on his bedroom walls, back in the early 70's. I guess I had to call him after it was all over. In fact, he even was a participant in one of the Senate meetings some years ago, and had some very good things to say about how McCain operates. And his point was that even if McCain wins, we'll be in far better a situation than we are now. At least Palin won't be running the show. But it abruptly ended there. We can't tolerate another group of republican appointees.

Thanks!

[DeeDeeNY]

49. Send him this link regardless of what he says

It could be he’s too lazy to find out how to register. He can register here online. Maybe he’ll change his mind.

http://www.voteforchange.com/index_obama.php?source=091008emailR


http://www.jedreport.com/2008/07/obamas-not-quit.html">Unfit for Office

[CreekDog]

51. One isn't going to vote at all, not for judges, dog catchers, environmental measures, etc.

because he doesn't want to get called for jury duty :eyes: nevermind that in California you get called based on DMV records. he's selfish and apathetic, period. he might be liberal, but i kind of doubt it --he's not really anything. what's the point of having any beliefs if you don't do anything with them.

and what's the point of being a citizen if you don't do anything related to your citizenship?

finally, if he ever complains about anything, you just tell him the following:

"what's wrong with this country are people who can't be bothered to participate in any of our nation, state, county or city's decisions for fear that they will be inconvenienced in having to decide whether a fellow citizen should stay out of jail or not."

i have friends who on occasion don't vote, but none of them with the chutzpah to justify it like that.

not even registered? :wtf:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

55. Do these people EVER vote? Or just not this time?

[Gregorian]

59. I am not sure. But I think it's chronic apathy.

I'm still reeling from this. Even after talking with my very vigilant and coherent friends.

It's upsetting because they no longer are held in esteem by me. I had a talk with my mom about this. She has a friend or two who are repubs.

I was apathetic for years. But I had a very good reason. I never knew a single republican until after I was 35 years old. Yes, it's true. I grew up in Palo Alto. And I just took it for granted.

But after Bush, and growing successively over the years since, I realize the country is far from that part of the country in which I grew up.

And I am nervous. But we're going to prevail. This time, and in the future.

No, to answer your question, these people are pompous asses. And that's why I called them. I feared the outcome. And I was accurate.

Onward!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

57. who do they expect will govern the country if no one votes

we'll have a dictatorship. would they be happy?

[Gregorian]

61. Those are some great statements.

That's why I love this place. We see so much. I'm glad you're part of my world. :)

[undeterred]

58. I wouldn't lose any sleep over non-voters.

Its very hard to get those people to change. If they don't feel it makes any difference, its very hard to persuade them that it does. Worry more about the Low Information Voters or the Misinformed Republicans who are so obviously voting against their own interests. They are more worth your time.

[Gregorian]

60. Yes.

That's pretty much how I ended this episode. McCain voters will almost always vote their base. Out of fear. Out of ritual. It's those who can be swung who are the fruitful targets.


Damn have I come a long way since joining this forum. And I thank people like you. I got to stand on your shoulders. Now I can see on my own.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

62. non voters need issues raised that they are interested in

[undeterred]

63. some wont even tell you what those are

I know a man who is a diesel mechanic: union, catholic, hunter, - not terribly predictable because you don't know which issue would be most important. He just says "I'm not political" and ends the conversation. He has never voted. He's not stupid, but he doesn't interact with the world in the same way I do at all.

[MadMaddie]

64. Success just as hopelessness breeds apathy. The two

you describe are too comfortable in thier lives. They have lost nothing so they don't care.

Don't worry about them find 10 others that believe in change and Democracy.

[OwnedByFerrets]

65. The smartest person I know....

wont vote because all politicians are alike. It wont matter who we put into office. They are all the same. Its impossible to talk to him.