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Why Obama Isn’t Beating McCain by 20 Points: A Blizzard of Lies

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 06:38 PM
Original message
Why Obama Isn’t Beating McCain by 20 Points: A Blizzard of Lies
In a functioning democracy, one would normally expect that candidates who develop plans for governing in accordance with the needs, desires and values of a nation’s people would win elections by landslides over candidates who have no such plans. Instead, the 2008 U.S. Presidential race defies such common sense assumptions. The race is nearly a dead heat, despite the fact that Barack Obama’s agenda is basically in tune with the needs, desires and values of the American people, whereas John McCain’s agenda is much more in tune with his corporate backers, a small wealthy American elite, and a radical right wing ideological fringe of the American electorate.

The explanation is fairly simple: Lies, lies lies. The McCain campaign feels free to lie about everything under the sun, and the lack of an independent American press ensures that most Americans are clueless about those lies. Since democracies cannot function without an independent press, this state of affairs is one of the clearest indications of the sick and perilous state of democracy in the United States today.


Why the 2008 presidential race should not be close

Here are just a few of the many reasons why the Presidential race should not be close:

Health care
The American people have for a long time been overwhelmingly in favor of a universal national health care plan. More specifically, 64% believe that our government should guarantee health insurance for all, compared to 27% who are against that.

Obama’s plans are fully consistent with that sentiment. He has developed a national health care plan for all Americans that would enable them to buy affordable (through government subsidies) health care coverage “similar to the plan available to members of Congress.” This plan would make healthcare coverage affordable for everyone, prohibit discrimination based on preexisting illness or health status, and substantially change our current private for-profit insurance company domination of the market by making available to everyone a Medicare-like, government sponsored program as an alternative.

John McCain offers nothing remotely similar to that. Though he says on his website that “We can and must provide access to health care for all our citizens”, he puts forth no serious plan to do that. All he offers are generalities about “promoting competition”, “reform”, and “reducing costs”, in addition to tax credits of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families, which families could use towards the purchase of private health insurance. McCain provides no indication that he understands that our current for-profit private health care insurance system leaves huge gaps in health care coverage. Nor does he evidence an understanding that $2,500 per individual is woefully inadequate to cover health insurance costs. In addition, the McCain plan would require Americans to pay taxes on health benefits provided by employers, thus cutting into the already inadequate tax credits offered under the McCain plan.

Tax policy and the economy
John McCain and his campaign have continuously repeated the lie that Barack Obama “will raise your taxes”. In a recent speech, McCain tried to nail Obama on the liberal “tax and spend” stereotype:

Senator Obama proposes to keep spending money on programs that make our problems worse and create new ones that are modeled on big government programs that created much of the fiscal mess we are in. He plans to pay for these increases by raising taxes on seniors, parents, small business owners and every American with even a modest investment in the market.

Where on earth does Mr. “straight talk express” come up with the idea that Obama would raise taxes “on seniors, parents, small business owners…”? Obama has laid out plans to reverse the Bush tax cuts for the rich, while reducing taxes and simplifying filing for working and middle class Americans. Specifically, he has said:

The Bush tax cuts – people didn't need them, and they weren't even asking for them, and they ought to be relaxed so we can pay for universal health care and other initiatives.… We have to stop pretending that all cuts are equivalent or that all tax increases are the same…. At a time when ordinary families are feeling hit from all sides, the impulse to keep their taxes as low as possible is honorable. What is less honorable is the willingness of the rich to ride this anti-tax sentiment for their own purposes.

In addition to his tax proposals, Obama has an extensive economic plan, which includes: fighting for “fair trade” instead of “free trade”, as manifested by NAFTA; job creation; restoring workers’ rights to unionize; the creation of a universal 10% mortgage credit to give relief to homeowners; a crackdown on mortgage company abuses; and a crackdown on predatory lending policies.

In stark contrast, McCain’s tax plans are tilted heavily towards the wealthy. According to his own web site, his idea of an economic stimulus plan is to cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%. Other McCain ideas for tax cuts include lowering taxes on capital gains and dividends and fighting “the Democrats’ crippling plans for a tax increase in 2011.” What McCain means by that last statement is that he will ensure that the Bush tax cuts for the rich, including the total elimination of the inheritance tax, become permanent in 2011. An article in the Wall Street Journal estimates that McCain’s tax cut proposals will cost our government as much as $400 billion a year.

So, let’s be absolutely clear about this. The difference between McCain’s and Obama’s tax policies is not lowering taxes vs. raising taxes. The difference is that McCain’s tax policies would benefit the wealthy, whereas Obama’s would benefit everyone else. And McCain would pay for his tax breaks for the wealthy by cutting the social programs that he so much abhors, such as those dealing with health and education, which have been used since FDR’s New Deal in an attempt to equalize opportunity in our country.

The U.S. occupation of Iraq
The American people want the U.S. occupation of Iraq to come to an end. Specifically, 59% favor a timetable for withdrawal, whereas only 35% oppose such a timetable. But the only reason why opinion in favor of withdrawal isn’t much more lopsided is that our corporate news media has misrepresented the “Iraq War”. That “war” is not really a war at all. It is an occupation. It is an occupation in which the civilian population, whom we have killed by the hundreds of thousands and displaced by the millions, wants us to leave. That’s the main reason we’re fighting there. We’re not fighting terrorists, we’re fighting a people who are resisting our occupation of their country. Neither McCain, nor Palin, nor George Bush have ever offered the American people a legitimate reason as to why we should occupy a country whose people desperately wants us to leave.

McCain co-sponsored the Iraq War Resolution that facilitated George Bush’s plans for war. His saber rattling has been as aggressive as anything we heard from Bush, Cheney, or Rumsfeld. McCain accurately announced on Mike Gallagher’s right wing radio show that “No one has supported President Bush on Iraq more than I have.” He has demonized those who criticize the war, with statements such as “I believe to set a date for withdrawal is to set a date for surrender” and by calling those who opposed the surge intellectually dishonest. And most ludicrous of all, he put on a big charade to convince the American people of how safe we have made Iraq, while neglecting to mention that while doing his tour he was wearing a bullet proof vest and accompanied by U.S. military air and ground support:

He (McCain) says one sign of progress is that the Republican congressional delegation he's leading was able to drive from Baghdad's airport to the city center, rather than taking a helicopter as prominent visitors normally do. McCain told reporters there are many other signs of progress…

He has consistently opposed any plan for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. He has said that we should stay in Iraq for a hundred or even maybe a million years.

He gives every indication of extending our war to Iran if elected President: At a press conference, McCain began singing “Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran” to the tune of the Beach Boys’ “Barbara Ann”. He has repeatedly lied to the American people that Iran harbors al Qaeda. Our national news media refers to such statements as “gaffes”. But they are not gaffes. They are lies. If they were truly gaffes he wouldn’t continually repeat them, despite being corrected about his “mis-statements”.

In marked contrast, Obama plans to withdraw from Iraq, while committed to meeting our humanitarian responsibilities there. He has stated on his website:

Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: ending the war… Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. He will not build permanent bases in Iraq, but will continue efforts to train and support the Iraqi security forces

Veterans’ benefits
The vast majority of Americans believe that our war veterans and soldiers should be treated reasonably and fairly for their service to our country. Then why has John McCain, along with most other Republican Congresspersons, consistently voted against health benefits for veterans, against minimum rest periods for troops in Iraq, and against adequate safety equipment for our troops?

Barack Obama voted in favor of our troops and veterans on all of these issues since he became a Senator in 2005. But McCain, in order to support the Republican Party’s ideology against social programs that are paid for out of the taxes of the wealthy, voted consistently against them. And he calls himself a “maverick”!

So how does McCain defend these votes when he tries to appeal to our veterans and those who support our veterans? He doesn’t have to. Instead, when Obama criticizes him for his voting on veterans’ issues, he indignantly asserts that Obama has no right to criticize him on veterans’ issues because Obama isn’t a veteran:

Republican John McCain said Thursday that Democrat Barack Obama had no right to criticize McCain's position on military scholarships because the Illinois senator did not serve in uniform.

"And I will not accept from Senator Obama, who did not feel it was his responsibility to serve our country in uniform, any lectures on my regard for those who did," the Arizona senator said in a harshly worded statement...

Energy and global warming
As with so many other issues, John McCain has made a big point of breaking with his party over the issue of global warming. As recently as June of this year McCain gave a speech emphasizing the importance of combating global warming, while separating himself from George W. Bush on the issue, and even some Democrats whom he claims are in the pocket of special interests:

With forward thinking Democrats and Republicans, I proposed a climate change policy that would greatly reduce our dependence on oil. Our approach was opposed by President Bush, and by leading Democrats, and it was defeated by opposition from special interests that favor Republicans and those that favor Democrats.

But McCain’s “climate change policy” is a bunch of malarkey. He recently reversed his long held position on a moratorium against offshore oil drilling, though the U.S. Energy Information Administrations notes that this “would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030”. His plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the United States relies mostly on voluntary emission cuts by industry. He is against subsidizing the development of clean renewable energy sources. And he has no plans whatsoever to improve energy efficiency.

So on what basis is John McCain able to claim “maverick” status for his positions on global warming? Certainly it couldn’t be the fact that the non-partisan League of Conservation Voters (LCV) gives him a 24% lifetime score for his global warming policies, and a 0% score for 2007.


A blizzard of lies

The frequency and audacity of McCain campaign lies about Barack Obama and about John McCain’s and Sarah Palin’s records are so blatant and dirty that when I try to find words to describe them my anger virtually causes me to become speechless. So, I won’t even try. Paul Krugman says it better than I can anyhow:

Dishonesty is nothing new in politics. I spent much of 2000… trying to alert readers to the blatant dishonesty of the Bush campaign’s claims about taxes, spending and Social Security.

But I can’t think of any precedent, at least in America, for the blizzard of lies since the Republican convention. The Bush campaign’s lies in 2000 were artful – you needed some grasp of arithmetic to realize that you were being conned. This year, however, the McCain campaign keeps making assertions that anyone with an Internet connection can disprove in a minute, and repeating these assertions over and over again.

Krugman goes on to cite some examples, including McCain’s claim that Obama advocated sex education for kindergarteners, based on Obama’s proposal to help them avoid sexual predators. Then he tries to explain how McCain gets away with it.

Why do the McCain people think they can get away with this stuff? Well, they’re probably counting on the common practice in the news media of being “balanced” at all costs. You know how it goes: If a politician says that black is white, the news report doesn’t say that he’s wrong, it reports that “some Democrats say” that he’s wrong…

Krugman then goes on to explain the meaning of all this:

Still, how upset should we be about the McCain campaign’s lies? I mean, politics ain’t beanbag, and all that… One answer is that the muck being hurled by the McCain campaign is preventing a debate on real issues…

But there’s another answer, which may be even more important: how a politician campaigns tells you a lot about how he or she would govern…. I’m talking about the relationship between the character of a campaign and that of the administration that follows. Thus, the deceptive and dishonest 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign provided an all-too-revealing preview of things to come. In fact, my early suspicion that we were being misled about the threat from Iraq came from the way the political tactics being used to sell the war resembled the tactics that had earlier been used to sell the Bush tax cuts.
And now the team that hopes to form the next administration is running a campaign that makes Bush-Cheney 2000 look like something out of a civics class. What does that say about how that team would run the country? What it says, I’d argue, is that the Obama campaign is wrong to suggest that a McCain-Palin administration would just be a continuation of Bush-Cheney. If the way John McCain and Sarah Palin are campaigning is any indication, it would be much, much worse.


How is it possible for a national political campaign to get away with all this?

Though Krugman is right on the money with regard to the abject failure of our corporate news media to provide us with useful information, I feel that he falls short of the correct explanation for that failure. It is not simply a matter of our news media trying too hard to “appear balanced”. Rather, their failures as news organizations are due to a concerted effort to serve their own interests rather than the interests of the public.

Bill Moyers, speaking at The National Conference for Media Reform on January 12, 2007, long before John McCain or Barack Obama received their respective party nominations, explained our current situation. Moyers notes the importance of the control of information to a society:

From the days of royal absolutism to the present, the control of information and knowledge had been the first line of defense for failed regimes facing public unrest…

Then, on the current situation in the United States of America, and the reasons for it:

For years a series of mega-media mergers had swept the country, each deal even bigger than the last… Both parties bowed to their will when the Republican Congress passed, and President Clinton signed, the Telecommunications Act of 1996. That monstrous assault on democracy… was nothing but a welfare giveaway to the largest, richest, and most powerful media conglomerates in the world – Goliaths whose handful of owners controlled… everything in sight. Call it the plantation mentality… It permeated and corrupted our course as a nation…

For years our media marketplace has been dominated by a highly disciplined, thoroughly networked “noise machine”… creating a public discourse that changed how American values are perceived. Day after day, the ideals of fairness, cooperation and mutual responsibility have been stripped of their essential dignity and meaning in people’s lives. Day after day, the egalitarian language of our Declaration of Independence is shredded by sloganeers who speak of the “death tax”, the “ownership society”, the “culture of life”, “compassionate conservatism”, “weak on terrorism”… They have even managed to turn the escalation of a preemptive war into a “surge”… We have all the Orwellian filigree of a public sphere in which words conceal reality and the pursuit of personal gain and partisan power is wrapped in rhetoric that turns truth to lies and lies to truth.

So it is that “limited government”… now means corporate domination… “Family values” now means imposing a sectarian definition on everyone else… And “patriotism” means blind support for failed leaders…

The question of whether our political and economic system is truly just or not is off the table for investigation and discussion by our dominant media elites. Alternative ideas… rarely get a hearing…


The way out

Moyers then explains what we need to do if we are to regain our freedom and our democracy. Here are some excerpts from that portion of his speech:

So if we need to know what is happening, and Big Media won’t tell us… it’s clear what we have to do” we have to tell the story ourselves…

This is what the plantation owners have always feared. Over all those decades in the South when they used human beings as chattel and quoted scripture to justify it, they secretly lived in fear that one day… those field hands would suddenly stand up straight and announce…: “The boss man’s been lying to me. Something is wrong with this system.”

This is the moment freedom begins – the moment you realize someone else has been writing your story and it’s time you took the pen from his hand and started writing it yourself… The greatest challenge to the plantation mentality of the media giants is the innovation and expression made possible by the digital revolution… We now have in our hands the means to tell a different story than Big Media tells. I mean the other story of America that says free speech is not just corporate speech, that news is not just what officials say it is, that people are not just chattel in the field… The Internet, and cell phones and digital cameras… make possible a nation of storytellers.


As for the 2008 election

But as it stands now, our corporate news media has a stronger voice than we do. That is why Obama doesn’t have a 20 point lead in the race for President. And there are not likely to be any great changes in that regard between now and Election Day 2008. So, with all that is riding on this election, what can be done between now and then?

Faced with a national news media like the one we have now, which is determined to either move Democrats to the right or to bury them, Democrats have basically two choices. They can either obey the wishes of the corporate media, or they can fight back. I believe that Americans are more than fed up with what has been going on in our country, and most of them will respond positively to a Democratic Party that fights back against corporate news media whores whenever it is appropriate to do so. If that happens we just may see a real landslide this November.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yup ... one word: Media
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for that Time for Change. The big questions are when will the Dems fight back and how?
So far, the method seems to have been voter registration as the be-all and save-all for this election. And while that is an excellent grassroots method of spreading the word and getting out the vote, it does nothing to address the media bias or the underlying reason for it: to make the race appear to be a "horse race" so the Republicans can steal the election once more for their corporate masters.

I don't have the answers for the Obama campaign, but I do know that there had better be a plan and it had better be a good one. There isn't much time left.




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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. That's a damn big and important questions
Both issues (voter registration and a corporate news media intent upon representing their own interests) are of monumental importance to the Democrats' chances in 2008 -- both the presidency and Congress. Both represent serious roadblocks to the Democrats' chances, and they both need to be addressed.
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atjrpsych Donating Member (80 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. the media does not control blogs
I think blogging is one of the major advantages that we have right now for accurate information. Just keep forwarding the truth to everyone you know.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. Yes -- Without the Internet we'd be in very deep trouble
Because of the Internet they're not able to get away with many of the lies that they'd otherwise be able to get away with. But they still get away with quite a bit.
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howmad1 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yea, all good reasons why Obama should be ahead.
Except the most important reason why he's not. He's black! Face facts;,when we live in one of the most racist countries in the world, there can be no other reason. Want proof? The murkin assholes are more impressed with a female piece of shit like Sarah Palin. I rest my case.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. I'm sure that racism will lose a lot of votes for Obama
But we can't do very much about the effect of racism on the 08 Presidential election at this late date -- except for Obama to get as much exposure as possible.

At least we have some options available for combatting news media bias.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Indeed, Democrats must fight back.
So I have argued for some time. The "Democrats are wimps" meme is killing us.

As said here: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Laelth/12

k&r

:dem:

-Laelth

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Jose6pack Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. They got my mom...
First post, long time lurker. I just talked to my mom, who lives in the Bay Area. She absolutely hates Bush, loved Clinton, and REALLY loves Hillary. She hates the war, she hates nasty politics, she hates the state of the economy, and she is (of course) pro-choice, and desperately wants to see health care reform. She is voting for McCain. Says he has real world experience, not "152 hours, or whatever". She like Palin. I pointed out her politics were 180 degress from Hillary's; she disagrees. She says Palin is pro-choice, just wouldn't choose abortion for herself. She dismisses the "God's war" retoric as simply a figure of speech. She says she has been more involved with this election than any other, watched every single debate, and that is how she feels. I said "its cause he's black, isn't it?" Quick "no", and then went on to say Obama was involved in so much sleeze. Something about giving a raise to his wife's boss, and he used to hang out with a terrorist. Says Obama has run the sleaziest campaign she's ever seen.

I honestly don't know what to say or do. I'm in shock... how could my own mother be so stupid? If Obama were white this would be a landslide. My wife and I are on pins and needles lately. This election is much more important than any I could remember... literally the fate of out nation is teetering. McCain wins - we are done; Obama wins - we have hope. And yet - it sure looks like its going to be close... and what the heck is wrong with Americans that this election is close? How do I talk to my mom?
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Those are all really easy to de-bunk
Once you get enough posts to start a thread, just start one asking about how to debunk those claims. The good news about Palin is that if someone is willing to listen there is all kinds of crazy stuff about her that's right there on the surface. Maybe we can't convince the public at large, but we can at least convince our family members rather easily.
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time disk Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Why Obama is not winning...
Main reason - because he's black.

Secondary reason - All those who believe in what Obama stands for stand squarely in the democratic camp.
All those who believe in what McCain stands for are firmly in the republican camp.

Those who are left, those who will swing the election one way or another could care less about the issues. They don't care because they know that no matter which one wins, their lives will change very little. These are the people who already get free medical care, one way or another. They will never own a house or an expensive new car. The minimum wage going up a quarer means nothing to them.

They are not issue oriented voters. They are entertainment oriented voters.

They want to be entertained.

Frankly, with Sarah Palin, the campaign ads the McCain people are running and the wacky things that come out of his mouth are simple and entertaining. Lets defeat evil! Priceless! You hate Sarah Palin because she's a maverick! Brilliant! Obama, a black man from a poor background is an elitist, while McCain, who owns 8 houses, is a plain speaking man of the people.

Its Adlai Stevenson vs. Ike re deux.

Look at Sarah Palins life. Its fodder for the Jerry Springer show. She looks like Tina Fey, an entertainer.

McCain has hours of war stories to tell. He's a maverick!. The surge works! (Quick, someone tell Patreus as his last comments don't seem all that certain)

While Obama's people continue to preach to the choir, McCain's people keep up a steady stream of entertainment for the swing voters who have no money in the stock market and whose kids go into the army, jail or low paying jobs.

So, between the racists and the simple minded, while Obama continues to try to educate, the Republicans amuse.

Hence, its looking good for 4 more years of the same crap.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. Right, nobody cares about issues
:sarcasm:

That's why McCain and Palin spend so much time lying about issues.

So, do you have any useful ideas on how Obama can win, other than to avoid the issues, or to make him white?
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time disk Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
43. Absolutely
Stop harping on issues.

Attack EVERYTHING McCain and Palin say and do in the simplest terms. Speculate, if necessary.

Examples -

The surge is working! Great, then you must be for bringing half the troops home now.

Palin is a Maverick! No, Maverick was an old TV show or dopey Tom Cruise movie character. Perhaps McCain is old enough to be a Maverick but Palin is no where near James Garner's age. What if Sarah Palin decides to start a film career while vice president. How will this affect her duties as Veep? Is it appropriate for Sarah Palin to hang out with Brittany and Paris? Do we really want a Veep who lives that life style.

Palin shoots moose! Wolves! Beaver?

You never see McCain and Bush together? Are we sure they are two separate people? Did Bush and McCain undergo 'mind merge' surgery last year?

Does Palin shave? Would it be becoming for Palin to shave, uh, down there? Do Americans want a vice president ( a heartbeat away from the presidence) who shaves, uh, down there?

Do we run the risk of Tina Fey impersonating Palin after she is elected. Could Tina Fey be sending wrong signals to our enemies?

Will Tina Fey (as Sarah Palin) sell nuclear secrets to Saudi Arabia or Exxon-Mobil.

Now, despite the fact I'm no Hollywood writer or comedian, you must get the idea. Good writers could improve on these types of attacks and they will be getting swing voters to thinking, and that will be dangerous for McCain-Palin.

Or, for a different demographic - (I'm on a roll now)

Remnants of Noah's Ark found in Alaska. Palin hiding them to sell on Ebay if Veep attempt fails.

Mitt Romney declares "Sarah Palin's name mentioned in gold tablets handed down by angel Maroni". Is Sarah Palin really a Mormon?

McCain denies evolution. "I knew Adam and Eve personally. We rode dinasaurs together."

Enquiring minds want answers to these important question!
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shaniqua6392 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
23. Welcome to DU Jose6pack!!
I have the same problem with my Dad. He is just not sure about Obama. I am still working on him though. I did mention the possible retirement of 2-3 Supreme Court Justices that will occur during the next administration and he knew NOTHING about this. I explained the possibilities of what a McCain choice for Justices would mean to me and to his granddaughters. That swayed him a lot and he seemed much more positive about Obama after that. I just begged him to give us his vote since he is not sure about anything and I am sure about everything. So far, so good. You might want to approach your Mom in this way. It is worth a try. Just have good facts about what a Republican would do and what a Democrat would do. McCain is getting away with a denial that he is a Republican and we need to stick the Bush label right on his forehead. Again, welcome to DU. We are happy to have you here!!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. That is sad
It's hard for me to say how you would talk to your mom about this. One way would be to show her the evidence that she's wrong about so many things, such as Palin being pro-choice. But I don't know if she'd be willing to accept evidence or reasonable argument. Has she shown signs of racism throughout your life? It does indeed sound to me from what you said that racism is behind her feelings on this issue.

I do have a counter story that I'd like to share: A friend of mine has a cousin who said outright that she wouldn't vote for Obama because he is black. But then she heard his speech at the Democratic convention and was so impressed that she said she'd vote for him. What does that say about the difference between my friend's cousin and your mom? Maybe it says that racism that is openly acknowledged is more amenable to change. I really don't know.

Good luck with your mom.
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DirtyDawg Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. No amout of arguing will do it...
...these folks are immune to 'logic'. Don't know if it's racism or what, but if it were me I'd simply tell my Mother, 'Mom, you're just dead wrong about this. Obama is our only hope to turn this country around and McCain very well may be the end of us. Regardless, if you keep insisting that you're gonna vote for McCain you can count on never seeing your grandchildren again. I won't allow my children to spend time with anyone that would be in a position to fill their heads with bullshit.'...something like that.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
I wish I could help you. My parents-in-law won't listen to reason, either. It's frustrating.

-Laelth
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rufus dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. 20 points is a bit unrealistic IMO
Think about it, 30% think the worst President in history is doing O.K. So that is the floor. McCain would only have to pick of 10% more to get with in 20, he is picking up about 15% more.

Factors:

Media, not giving public an accurate assessment.
Stupidity, goes along with the media, but damn there are some stupid people out there
Racism

When it all plays out I wouldn't be shocked if it is in the 10 to low teens.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. 20 points is not unusual in U.S. presidential elections
20th Century elections:

1904: Roosevelt by 19
1920: Harding by 26
1924: Coolidge by 25
1928: Hoover by 17
1932: FDR by 18
1936: FDR by 24
1964: Johnson by 23
1972: Nixon by 23
1984: Reagan by 18

Add to that the fact that McCain is an extremely weak candidate. He can't keep basic facts straight from one day to the next. He votes 90% of the time with George Bush, the least popular president in American history. If the news media would call him on all his lies and mis-statements the American people would know him for who he is, and I see no reason why we wouldn't see another election like one of those noted above.
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rufus dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. I tend to weigh my analysis on more recent data.
And your detail backs it up IMO, Reagan and Nixon, being republicans have the higher floor of support. Clinton never got 50% of the electorate even after four years of solid growth during his first term. Furthermore the Reagan 84 number was fueled by HUGE republican voter registration advantages in the early 80's. They are now the middle aged whack jobs listening to Rush/Hannity.

For the past four years there are HUGE Democratic voter registration advantages, and I can see a potential for an Obama big win in 2012. By the way, a 10 to 15 point win is a large win.

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tucsonlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
11. Re: Why Obama Isn’t Beating McCain by 20 Points
What makes you think he isn't? After all, the polls are conducted by that same corrupt corporate media. Convincing the public that the race is "close" is in their self-interest. At least, I hope that's the explanation. Otherwise, it would mean that half the electorate is made up of racists and/or ignorant fools.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. I believe that Obama's numbers are better than what most of the polls indicate
especially Rasmussen, Fox, and Gallup. But not all of the polling data is from Republican biased sources. Zogby for one is a Democrat, and his numbers are not anywhere close to 20 points different than the other polls. I doubt that they could get away with a false margin of anywhere near 20 points.
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NBachers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. An ignorant population is easy to manipulate
I fear for our nation, and the world, if these vicious disturbed freaks get elected. Already I am seeing people walking around in a complete state of frazzled desperation; afraid that Obama won't make it. And there's a huge population of vituperative, small minded bigots who want to gloat over the libruls' despair.

DONATE REGISTER VOLUNTEER FIGHT



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n03a7cLf0M
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samuraiguppy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
13. three reasons why not
1 the RW media
2 racists
3 Stupidity
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DiamondG Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
14. folks, here's a clue: issues only matter tangentially, if they matter at all. culture, image, ident
identification with a candidate, etc. are what people vote on. this isn't going to change any time in the near future, and if dems ever want to win an election again, they better figure this out. it really seems to me though that some dems would rather lose and then just sit off to the side with arms crossed, criticising and feeling superior. again, not a winning "image" for the party, if i may say so. if obama loses, i can just hear it: "it's the clinton's fault, it's the racists (redundant, according to many people here), it's the media's fault, it's the stupid voters' fault, they stole it.... and on and on." dems will refuse to take responsibility, refuse to learn, and continue losing, or getting nothing done when they actually win a few seats in congress. hence, the "issues" will never even get touched. bottom line, dems better figure out how to win, or the "issues" won't amount to squat.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. If the issues don't matter more than some identification with the voter
then you're saying, it's about a stupid electorate plain and simple.

Plus, its a heavily subjective argument. I don't identify with McCain, Palin, Dubya, Cheney, Dole, Bush I, Reagan, or Nixon. Not at all.
I suspect few Democrats do either and the vast majority of Republicans, if they are honest don't either. What common life experiences or lifestyle would most people have in common with these folks?

So, what is it that you identify in the Republicans that the Democrats are lacking? You post avoids the obvious, what's the difference that you see?
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DiamondG Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. well, "morning in america" is going to beat "god damn america" every time. come on people, i don't
care if it's all a load of crap, dems need to work the america-loving optimism and at least fake respect for "regular folks" between the coasts. i know that a lot of dems think they're already doing that, but another message leaks through too often. and i'm sure *you* and a lot of other dems *don't* identify with mccain types, but more people don't identify with what dems have been putting forward lately, that's the problem. we need to find a middle ground to get elected (bill clinton comes to mind), and i really don't care whether anybody likes it or not. if dems don't get elected, the issues don't get addressed. but like i said, i think a lot of dems actually want to lose.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Yeah right
And when is the last time you heard Obama or Biden say "God damn America" or anything remotely similar to that?

Are you writing these posts to give people the idea that Obama/Biden is an America hating ticket? What is this that you claim "dems have been putting foward lately" that you imply is not a middle ground?

All you're doing is voicing generalities about how far left Democrats are. This sounds like a lot of right wing crap to me.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. And what is this mooseshit about
dems needing to "fake respect for regular folks".

You think that Republicans have more respect than Democrats do? Is that what you're trying to say?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. To say that issues don't matter at all is as absurd as saying they're the only thing that matters
If they didn't matter, then why do McCain and Palin spend so much time lying about them?

Anyhow, your advice that "dems better figure out how to win" in the absence of any ideas on how to do that is not the least bit helpful.
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DiamondG Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. i said they might matter tangentially, as far as "creating the frame" goes; but we all know that as
soon as the election is over the wrapper gets torn off and the "real" issues get addressed. don't have time now, but i'll mention later some packaging improvements that i think could be made.
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RTBerry Donating Member (108 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-08 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
44. Astute, but not a popular viewpoint, as it requires accepting responsibility.
Belief that "all we need to do is explain the issues" assumes "they're ignorant of the facts, while we're not." That passes the blame to "them." Self-satisfying, but not an effective way to win hearts, minds, and (of course) elections.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
15. K & R
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
18. Basically because they are being inconsistent with their samples and adjusting to benefit GOP. n/t
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
19. Removed by Author
Edited on Tue Sep-16-08 07:04 AM by davidpdx
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
20. Bravo! Fantastic analysis
I suggest that you send it around to folks like Daily Kos, Huffington and Buzzflash


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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
38. Thank you very much -- I'll do that
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
21. Simply Awesome...
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
26. American Media has been ACQUIRED by those that are destroying this country
The proof of the media's complicity in the destruction of America can best be seen in the fact that 70% of Americans at one time BELIEVED that Saddam was responsible for 9/11. That thought did not magically pop into millions of peoples heads. It was put there by the media using techniques perfected over decades of "selling" things. Who knew Madison Avenue would be the death of the Republic?
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
30. It's time for an evolution for a revolution to a solution - it's time for Obama!!
There is no doubt that the media has propped up McCain like some poorly designed cardboard cutout of a man who wants to be the President.

John McCain is that cardboard cutout.

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R
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wizstars Donating Member (792 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
39. "You can't hide Your Lyin' Eyes..."
"...and your smile is a thin disguise,
I thought by now you'd realize
There ain't no way to hide your lyin' eyes"



New theme song for Obama? Wonder if the Eagles would permit it?

:7
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. You can't hide those lyin' eyes when U-tube is around
No need for a theme song. Just watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
40. A Blizzard of Lies from mccain and the
corporate media. Thanks for why Obama should be ahead Time for Change.

Obama Biden will win.
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