Need some help debunking the Biden "plagiarizer" charge

[NewJeffCT]

Heard somebody the other day ranting about how Biden plagiarized his way through college and through the Senate...

I thought the plagiarism thing had been debunked, at least the one when he was running for president in 1988.

[BumRushDaShow]

1. Very old stuff. If that is all they have, then they are desperate. n/t

[dkf]

2. It was similar to Obama...he had credited Neil Kinnock many times before

but just didn't do it in the circumstance that he got criticized for.

I haven't heard anything about college, etc.

[napi21]

6. Here's a link to the "college days" accusation.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE3DB143FF93BA2575AC0A961948260

[margotb822]

11. 1987, really?

If we can't criticize McCain for the Keating 5 scandal because it was "in the past," or Palin for anything, then this is moot, too. Ugh...

[NewJeffCT]

13. HUGE difference, though

If anything happened before today with McCain, he can call it a youthful indiscretion because he is a Republican.

However, Biden is a Democrat, and is therefore responsible for all the world's sins since he was born.

[1corona4u]

18. And, here is a followup to that...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DD1230F93AA15756C0A96F948260

I can't believe they're still harping on this...

[NewJeffCT]

19. as I said below

in this thread...

Republicans still harp on Ted Kennedy over Chappaquiddick - and that was 40 years ago.

They still harp on Robert Byrd and his KKK membership, and that was 60 years ago.

So, Joe Biden has at least another 20-40 years to go...

[1corona4u]

20. LOL, poor Joe...

Ah well, whaddya gonna do...

[sandnsea]

3. McCain's plagiarizing Obama's entire campaign

People need to be told to flat grow up.

[DemsUnited]

4. Hear, hear sandnsea. Very well said. nt

[eShirl]

5. "Biden Plagiarism Accusation: What's The Real Story?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/23/biden-plagiarism-accusati_n_120851.html

[thoughtcrime1984]

7. How sad is it that we have to defend something so minor as that from 20 yrs ago

and Repubs can take away our rights, our hopes, and get away without so much as one question from the media? This is so ridiculous. If the dummies that keep voting for the same old shit would wake the hell up and see how we have been divided by the rich and powerful, then maybe something would finally change.

[NewJeffCT]

8. It is sad, but Republicans are still harping on

Ted Kennedy for Chappaquiddick from 40 years ago, and Bob Byrd for being in the KKK 60 years ago. 20 years is a mere drop in the bucket to them.

[JohnnyRingo]

9. Mentioning Biden's college papers opens the door to discussing

old issues, like the Keating Five.
Statute of limitations is the only defense in either case, and McCain's scandal was much more recent... and serious.

Compare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_five

As for the "inexcusable" 1987 incident;

In September 1987, the campaign ran into trouble when he was accused of plagiarizing a speech by Neil Kinnock, then-leader of the British Labour Party. Kinnock’s speech included the lines:

"Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to university?" Then pointing to his wife in the audience, he continued: "Why is Glenys the first woman in her family in a thousand generations to be able to get to university? Was it because all our predecessors were thick?"

While Biden’s speech included the lines:

"I started thinking as I was coming over here, why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go to a university?"

Then, pointing to his wife: "Why is it that my wife who is sitting out there in the audience is the first in her family to ever go to college? Is it because our fathers and mothers were not bright? Is it because I'm the first Biden in a thousand generations to get a college and a graduate degree that I was smarter than the rest?" Though Biden had cited Kinnock as the source for the formulation many times before, he made no reference to the original source at the August 23 debate in question

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_biden

[NewJeffCT]

14. Somebody on DU said

that Biden had credited Kinnock in every speech except one - which was where he got called out for plagiarism...

is there a source to support that?

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

17. It was covered on the CNN piece on Biden that ran this weekend

I had to play it twice because I thought I had missed something when they showed the 2 speeches side by side . They were not identical in text, but the concept was the same. Did not look lig a big deal to me at all.

They also showed the presser he did where he brought up the college thing - not footnoting something properly.

from Wikipedia

Joe Biden
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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"Biden" redirects here. For other uses, see Biden (disambiguation).
Joe Biden


In September 1987, the campaign ran into trouble when he was accused of plagiarizing a speech by Neil Kinnock, then-leader of the British Labour Party.<68> Kinnock’s speech included the lines:

"Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to university?" Then pointing to his wife in the audience, he continued: "Why is Glenys the first woman in her family in a thousand generations to be able to get to university? Was it because all our predecessors were thick?"

While Biden’s speech included the lines:

"I started thinking as I was coming over here, why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go to a university?"

Then, pointing to his wife: "Why is it that my wife who is sitting out there in the audience is the first in her family to ever go to college? Is it because our fathers and mothers were not bright? Is it because I'm the first Biden in a thousand generations to get a college and a graduate degree that I was smarter than the rest?" Though Biden had cited Kinnock as the source for the formulation many times before, he made no reference to the original source at the August 23 debate in question.<69>

It was also alleged that, during his time as a law student at Syracuse, Biden had plagiarized a law review article. Though the then-dean of the law school, as well as Biden's former professor, downplayed the incident, they did find that Biden drew "chunks of heavy legal prose directly from" the article in question. Biden said it was inadvertent due to his not knowing the proper rules of citation, and Biden was permitted to retake the course after receiving a grade of F, which was subsequently dropped from his record.

[Waiting For Everyman]

10. It's picky and old. If someone wants to go there, bring up Keating 5.

I think wikipedia explains it.

[grantcart]

12. he made a mistake and it made him a better person for it

now the person that is making the comment obviously has never made a mistake so they shouldn't start by voting for McCain.

[BlueIdaho]

15. BREAKING!!! republicans petition for straw grasping as next new Olympic event!!! nt.

[NewJeffCT]

16. The funny part was, the substitute radio host

who was filling in for a left-of-center guy that was on vacation was ranting about Biden and say how Senators do nothing except talk, hold committee hearings and go on junkets...when comparing Palin to Biden.

Unfortunately, I was too disgusted to call up to say, "You're just saying that John McCain's experience is also a bunch of crap, too, since both have been in the Senate for over 20 years."