Keating 5 is not an issue we can use - a smart republican can turn that one against us

[LynneSin]

Yes McCain was involved but so were 4 other senators all of whom were democrats. Of the 5 senators involved, McCain received the least amount of punishment. I smart Republican spin meister could easily take this scandal and say "Yes McCain was involved but what about the 4 democrats - this was really a Democrat scandal!"

Do we want to go there?

[nini]

1. are those other senators running for president?

?

[MidwestTransplant]

2. Exactly.

[LynneSin]

5. Nope, but you think that would stop the repuke spin

McCain got his hand slapped in that debacle - unless we can find proof that he was more involved or received special favors in the punishment; we have nothing here

[chitty]

7. He showed terrible judgement.

[LynneSin]

10. We have enough dirt on McCain with out giving them stuff to use against us

I know it seems like a shitty cop-out but just not one I'm willing to risk.

Since the moment McCain becamse the presumed nominee they've been working on a plan to deal with Keating 5. There's a reason it's not being used.

[WCGreen]

26. John Glenn was forced out of the 1992 race for the White House

because of his involvment in the Keating 5...

[dansolo]

56. The angle would be his pressuring of regulators

The mistake would be to just throw out "Keating 5 scandal" and assume that that alone would be enough. If they want to bring it up, they need to specifically address what it was that he did, and how it is relevant to the actions that led us to our current crisis.

[blondeatlast]

22. Precisely. nt

[Teaser]

3. IT'S A TRAP!!!!

it always is.

[apnu]

25. That post is no good without a picture. Here you go.

[chitty]

4. Fucking A!

Those Dems aren't running for Prez.

[LynneSin]

6. Read what I wrote above

You think that matters to republicans. Trust me, they have Keating 5 spin all ready to serve when we open up that can of worms.

[babylonsister]

8. smart republican??

:shrug:

Yes, I want to go there; McBush is running, none of the others are. Goes to history, and what a lousy one it was, and ties into today.

[LynneSin]

17. So then if it ties into history

It was democrats who overwhelmingly had their hands all over this mess and you want to trust the country to ANOTHER one. Look, clearly Dems were responsible for this billion dollar mess.

Thing is, they'll never even mentioned the 4 names, they'll just keep mention 4 DEMOCRATS and use that label to tag it against Obama.

[TheBigotBasher]

44. Smart Republicans?

I think they were trying to find one in Starship Troopers. Oh no that was a brain bug. Both unheard of

[RedSpartan]

9. I think the way to handle it is

to mention that, yes, McCain was not charged (nor was Sen. John Glenn), but they were reprimanded for "poor judgment." Then you can talk about how this is another example of poor judgment by McCain -- like Palin, voting with Bush 90% of the time, etc., and we can't afford more of the same.

[scheming daemons]

11. It can be used...just not by anyone associated with our campaign..... a "whisper campaign" on blogs

would work just fine.


...then get the media to pick up on it.



Nothing that can be traced back to Obama or the DNC.

[LynneSin]

14. I could go there but even then I would wait til closer to the election

so there is less time to get their spin running

[SuperTrouper]

12. The other 4 Democrats are nor running for President, McCain is and he had poor judgment

[LynneSin]

16. Four Democrats and what is Obama - a democrat

It would be real easy to drop the "Hey the democrats were the ones that did the bulk of this dirty work and you're going to trust another one just like them to be your president"

Trust me, republicans have been ready forever to spin this puppy back into the Obama camp. You have to stop thinking like a logical person and more like a republican to see how this spin could favor the republicans.

[SuperTrouper]

18. Obama is a Democrat but he had no involvement with this scandal, McCain did.

[LynneSin]

20. Do you think that matters to the republican spin

You're using democrat logic here which is something republicans do not possess.

[FloridaGrl]

38. Well

George Bush is a republican, the congress was under republican control for 6 years do you trust another one just like them to be your president? Democrats have to upper hand on economic issues there is no way we should allow them to get away with this. We will not allow them to spin something Obama had no direct hand in (while their guy was directly involved) on Obama.

[LynneSin]

42. Good - let's get Faux News Channel, CNN and MSNBC to cover that one

but they'll be on the Keating 5 spin like shit on flies.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. Of the 5, McCain got the lightest penalty.

Which is odd considering Charles Keating was a personal friend of the family and Cindy and her dad had invested heavily in his properties.

[leftynyc]

36. He had a better lawyer

That's all that was.

[ben_meyers]

15. Smart Republican! A stupid Republican could use it

and Obama will have to throw 4 Democrats under the bus including OHIO favorite son and former Senator John Glenn. Not that Ohio is important or anything.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. Dupe n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

19. Exactly!! And John Glen, who is a true American hero, were among them.

People need to wake up. You are spot on. I think the Repukes may be trying to bait Obama into mentioning it. He needs to stay away from it.

On the other hand, McSame was the worst of the five and Cindy McSame and her father was involved in the fiasco. Still, we need to stay away from this issue. It's a trap...

[SuperTrouper]

21. It is 527 material. However, it will be asked during the debates

[InNeedOfUserName]

31. 527 material YES, But it Won't be asked in the debates; Glenn and McCain...

...were cleared, but senate panel would let them off the hook. Actually none of the five were punished.


"The Senate Ethics Committee probe of the Keating Five began in November 1990, and committee Special Counsel Robert Bennett recommended that McCain and Glenn be dropped from the investigation."
http://www.slate.com/id/1004633/

So no, it won't be raise in the debates, BUT there is always hoe for a 527!:)

[Alter Ego]

23. If Democrats are SO corrupt, why is John McCain the only senator

that remains in the Senate from that group of five? And what was he doing mixed up with those awful, awful Democrats in the first place?

[stillcool]

24. Yes..I really want to go there..

http://www.ourfuture.org/progressive-opinion/keating-five-legacy

The Keating Five Legacy

By William K. Black
April 9th, 2008

William K. Black is Associate Professor of Law and Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. He was to He was counsel to the Federal Home Loan Bank Board during the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and was a whistleblower in the Keating Five scandal. His book on the crisis is "The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One.
****************
McCain's Relationship with Keating

Senator McCain is the only member of the Keating Five still in office. He was unique among the group on several dimensions. He was the only Republican. He had the longest, closest relationship with Keating. The relationship was social — Lincoln's airplanes flew Senator and Mrs. McCain, their children, and a nanny to stay at Keating's vacation home in the Bahamas. Senator McCain blames his failure to reimburse the expenses (which he was required to do by law), on his staff. He reimbursed only years later after the scandal broke. No other Senator had a close social relationship with Keating or similar airplane use issues. Keating was a bully and a nasty bigot, whom many politicians refused to deal with once they knew him, but Senator McCain viewed him as a personal friend (and major contributor) for a decade.

Only Senator McCain (and Lee Henkel) had a financial conflict of interest involving the direct investment rule. Senator McCain's wife and father-in-law were engaged in a direct investment with Lincoln. Had the Bank Board taken enforcement action against Lincoln's violation of the direct investment rule Senator McCain's wife and father-in-law's investment would have been placed in substantial risk of loss.

Only Senator McCain was in the House at the time Keating enlisted a majority of the House to co-sponsor his resolution designed to kill the direct investment rule. He was the only member of the Keating Five, therefore who was a co-sponsor. More generally, Senator McCain was the Senator most opposed to financial regulation in general and Gray's "reregulation" of S&Ls in particular. As his March 25, 2008 speech on the ongoing mortgage crisis makes clear, he continues to call for greater deregulation of the kind that is causing our financial crises to become more severe and more common.

Senator McCain's efforts to convince the Reagan administration to give Keating de facto control over the Bank Board by appointing two nominees chosen by Keating to run the agency were not unique among the Keating Five, but he was the most important support for Keating's effort because he was a Republican.

Senator McCain was not unique in not giving direct aid to Keating after the April 9 meeting. It is important to consider how Keating shaped Wall's perspective of the Keating Five's support. He used both Senator Cranston and Senator Glenn's active, continuing support (in February 1988, almost a year after the April 2 and April 9, 1987 meetings) to show Wall that he retained the Keating Five's loyalty and he used Senator Glenn to help recruit Speaker Wright as an ally — knowing that Wall had advised Gray to give in to Wright's political pressure. Wall had no way of knowing that Senator McCain and Senator Riegle were no longer taking affirmative actions to help Keating get the Bank Board not to bring an enforcement action against Lincoln.
Omission and Commission


None of the Keating Five members helped protect their constituents by supporting regulatory efforts to end Keating's looting of Lincoln. We told them in fair detail at the April 9, 1987 meeting that it was a fraudulent institution and that it was guaranteed to fail if it continued its policies. The Keating Five were well aware of their political power and Keating's political power. They were aware that the Wall Bank Board was taking unprecedented actions in favor of Keating. We could not act. We were gagged. We were forbidden to examine Lincoln. We were excluded from meetings or ordered to remain silent. The new examiners were forbidden by Wall to speak to us about Lincoln.

I noted that the senators structured the April 2, 1987 meeting to ensure deniability by designing it to be the word of five Senators against one "bureaucrat" should things go wrong. They knew that the meeting was dangerous because they knew agencies are supposed to take stringent enforcement actions against massive, intentional violations of rules — particularly when the nature of the violation causes failures. They also knew that Keating's mole, Lee Henkel, had just resigned in disgrace after we had blown the whistle on his attempt to immunize Lincoln's violation of the direct investment rule. This is why they excluded all staff from the April 2 meeting. When the meeting became public, along with Gray's criticism of their effort to pressure him to agree to Keating's quid pro quo deal, each of the Senators lied about the meeting. They lied by claiming that Gray had lied about their support for Keating's deal. (Eventually, it emerged that Senator DeConcini was reading from a staffer's memorandum that expressly stated the quid pro quo.)

The Senate ethics committee ignored the Senator's false statements about the meetings. (It also failed to investigate the impact of the Senator's actions in Keating's behalf.) I believe that structuring a meeting to set up a lie, lying, and defaming another person you know has told the truth (i.e., claiming that Gray's statement about the quid pro quo proposal was false), demonstrate severe character flaws and should be considered unethical in the context of the U.S. Senate.

http://www.ourfuture.org/progressive-opinion/keating-five-legacy

[ben_meyers]

28. Oh good, an article from a left leaning website

That's sure to turn heads.

McCain has been answering this for 20 years here in Arizona, and he can slip those questions in his sleep.

[stillcool]

35. and so?

You might think that because the guy was counsel to the Federal Home Loan Bank Board during the savings and loan crisis of the 1980s and was a whistleblower in the Keating Five scandal, he should be pooh-poohed, but I don't. I even think Neil Bush's Silverado should be brought into focus. Sorry that you in Arizona have had your fill. Too bad you kept on electing the guy.

[Fla Dem]

49. He may have been answering to Arizonians, but he needs to answer to the entire country.

The people of Arizona may have given him a pass......war hero, kept man of millionaire heiress. But this is a very relevant area to get into. Many people may not know or remember the details of the S&L/Keating 5 scandal. The only reason I was remotely interested back in the late 1980's was because I had met Charles Keating at the hotel he owned in Phoenix, The Phoenician. So like watching a train wreck I followed the scandal. With the economic situation in such a mess today, homeowners worried about losing their homes, workers worried about their jobs, and retirees and future retirees worried about their pensions and 401ks, they should know McShame's involvement in the scandal. Do they really want him in a position of deciding the direction of our economy when he already has blood on his hands? I don't care if other senators, Dem or otherwise are mentioned he's the only one running for president.

[ben_meyers]

52. All I'm saying is that McCain has his answers down

pat, he isn't going to be blindsided by this.

[Heather MC]

27. McCain was the FIRST contacted by Keating, McCain got the Most Money

He got the most benefits, free trips
His wife entered into a business deal with keating

McCain was Keatings friends and Senator

[LynneSin]

34. And what does the official documentation show as to how it was handled

Democrats we drug thru the mud even more AND received more punishment.

You're going up against Republican spinmeisters who can trash this to threads. We have better scandals to pin on McCain than this one.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. None of the other four are Senators anymore

Saying that Alan Cranston and Dennis DeConnici were involved in Keating 5 and therefore that should reflect poorly on Obama because he is a Democrat is like saying Richard Nixon was involved in Watergate therefore it should reflect poorly on McCain because he is a Republican.

[LynneSin]

33. You don't get it though the key word here is they were Democrats

You honestly think that the republicans haven't planned their attack if Keating 5 is brought up? How foolish are we? They're smart enough to skirt the issue but if attacked head-on with this they'll point out that it was mostly democrats and that those democrats received the most punishment and *gasp* do we want to trust democrats today with the financial issue when they were 'untrustworthy' before.

It doesn't matter that none of these 4 democrats are running for president, none of them are in the senate and none of them are alive - they are democrats and republicans just love playing 'guilt by association'

You think I'm kidding? This is a campaign that took a Illinois bill that was to teach young children how to avoild sexual predators and somehow turn it into the concept that 'Obama wants to teach kids about sex before they even know how to read'. You know it's bullshit, so do I and people who follow politics. But the average Joe Voter doesn't have a clue if all they use for their political inforamtion is the nightly news.

We don't want to go there, trust me on that one. And if we do - we wait until the very last minute so this thing can't get spun out of control.

[GoesTo11]

37. Can't live in fear

There's always something the Republicans could try to do with everything. Of course they would say that Democrats were involved. But if 4 Democrats took bribes and John McCain took bribes, does that make McCain equal with all Democrats? No, he is worse than all but 4 of them.

[LynneSin]

39. That's not living in fear that's not playing into their hands

If we can't win this election without a 20 year old scandal then we're a really sorry lot of people.

[GoesTo11]

51. McCain's using his 26 years of senate experience, we can go back 20.

I don't care if we're sorry or not. Just if we win.

McCain showed that he was willing to let mortgage frauds off the hook if they did him favors. That scandal was the father to the current one, it's not some cheating on an old wife thing. It goes directly to his being in bed with the people who did this. Which he probably was, given that his son was on the audit board of a bank that was just bailed out after gambling on bad mortgages.

[LanternWaste]

32. I do.

I do. Of the five members of the scandal, McCain is the only one currently serving an elected position.

It could also play into the Sen. Obama's message of change and revitalization.




GOP Point: "Yes McCain was involved but what about the 4 democrats..."

Democratic Counter-point: They are no longer serving as elected officials. Which begs the question, why is Sen. McCain still serving...?

[ContinentalOp]

40. So... they would be admitting that McCain is as bad as some of the crooked Democrats...

that we kicked out of office decades ago?

[LynneSin]

41. Last I checked John Glenn ran again for office and won, retired after that term

at like the age of 80.

Yeah, we really kicked him out of office

:eyes:

[ContinentalOp]

47. You're really not very good at this spin thing.

At least I'm going to assume that's the case and not that you're actively trying to work against us. ;)

[ProSense]

43. Nonsense

It's Keating Five member McCain's continued pattern of behavior that has contributed to this economic mess.

[nam78_two]

45. Exactly-thank you

Couldn't disagree with the OP more.

[chascarrillo]

46. Jesus Christ, are we allowed to criticize McCain about anything anymore?

[Sodan]

48. I heard he was a POW.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

50. Yes. It shows an unbroken pattern of behavior...

He intervened improperly on behalf of Keating in 1987. Then on behalf of Paxon in 1999. Then his "Reform Institute" is funded by those same corporate entities and lobbyists that are running his campaign.

The leopard never changed his spots.

[jillan]

53. What's interesting is that the other 4 lost their jobs, but only McCain remained.

[LynneSin]

54. Losing their job -you mean like getting re-elected as John Glenn did

:eyes:

[democrattotheend]

55. Are any of the Democrats still in the Senate?

I don't think it matters that the others involved were Democrats, because there's no way in hell you could tie it to Obama. Was he even a state senator yet at the time of the Keating 5?

Unless Biden is connected to any of it, I think it's safe to use.