So, now she isn't speaking to me....

[yellerpup]

One of my friends is still "undecided" because she's been talking to her old Neocon (now married) boyfriend who can lead her around by her nose. She sent me photos of the Anti-Sarah protest in Alaska and the following is our exchange (with personal named edited out).

Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 1:33 PM

Thanks, for the photos friend. I'd seen most of these already. I don't see McCain's VP choice jazzing
up (m)any Independents to get to the polls and if he was going for the Hillary
vote, he is seriously misinformed. Epic FAIL for McCain on this. Palin is
a bad, bad joke. Me

You like, my nephew and my mother, live in an ivory tower. The liberal New York
Metropolitan area is very different from middle America and the South. I know my daughter
who lives in VA is voting for McCain. Abortion is still a big issue with the religious right.
You may think Palin is an idiot, but many people are mesmerized by her. My ex-friend

As usual, your daughter is voting her boyfriend's conscience. Millions of new voters
across this country are not signing up to vote for John McCain. Me

[knixphan]

1. had a similar scenario

With an 'ex-friendly colleague'.

If they're willing to be led by the nose, don't lose a bit of sleep over it, my friend.

Go out and fetch a new supporter. Even the numbers.

Onward! We'll all lick our wounds when the fight is over...and I'll make you a martini.

[yellerpup]

4. Fetch another! Good strategy.

A produce worker in our local grocery store pulled me aside last Tuesday (I was wearing my Barack the Vote pin) and confided that his union held an emergency meeting on Sunday to tell them that their pensions were at risk. I felt so bad for this guy. He probably should be retired already. We talked a little bit and he shook my hand. He said, "I guess we know who we have to vote for, huh?" I said, "You know who I'm voting for, right?" He said, "I am, too. I didn't know it until Sunday, but I am too." I like a nice Martini! :toast:

[knixphan]

11. Yes! For every one we lose, we'll get two new ones.

And I'll set up the bar - November 5th, drinks are on me!

:toast:

[yellerpup]

24. I'm there!

:hi:

[mscuedawg]

2. Mesmerized...by Sarah...I just dont get that...

And believe me...my 87 year old grandmother is mesmerized by Sarah too...but then again, she listens to Rush Limbaugh and thinks he's a "good and wise man".... :puke:

[lonestarnot]

5. And his wives and oxycontin was ok?

[mscuedawg]

9. What gets me is when did the GOP give up on "family values"...

my g'ma is very religious...to the point of she wont wear anything but dresses or skirts...never got her drivers license and CERTAINLY never had a job (until my g'pa passed). So you tell me...when did we convert to the days of women being HOME raising their children and doting on their husbands? I remember that mentality..never agreed w/it...but now Palin to be their "savior"...I STILL dont get it!!!! :shakes head:

[krkaufman]

90. The only reliable characteristic of a Republican is hypocrisy.

What they ordain for others is optional in their own lives.

[mitchum]

96. Yet she thinks It's okay for Palin to run for office? What hypocritical horseshit

Tell grandma mitchum said she's a silly old bat

[Arugula Latte]

8. I'm mesmerized by her putrid loathesomeness. (Is that a word?)

[gmoney]

14. loathesomosity? loathesomenaciousicity? loathability?

words just fail to describe her superloathsomefragilisticexpialidocious self

[GoddessOfGuinness]

38. loatheophilia

[lonestarnot]

81. hmmmf!

loathsomereciprociprocitypukeamooselackability!

[Arugula Latte]

87. ...

Loathesomedisestablishmenttarianism?

[yellerpup]

10. My 89 year old ex-MIL reports that she is one of the very few in her

nursing home who is pro-Obama. Since her ex-priest son came out she has become a PFLAG activist, too! Anyway, she chalks "those old people's attitudes" up to racism. They think they can't help it, but they can. Well, not much you can do to change someone's opinion if it is a very strong opinion to begin with. The only thing that can turn them around is a hard lesson, and I wouldn't wish that on your grandma. Of course, I wouldn't offer to drive her to the polls, either--but that's just me.

[NotThisTime]

37. Ugh, I talked to my MIL extensively today,I thought it was race it's not it's the terrorists

that are helping him!!!!!

WTF??



Prove it! I told her there was no evidence of any such thing or any such help from any such people. She may be jaded and she may be a lot of things but she can't go running around saying that type of thing.

[yellerpup]

46. If you are up against opinion or belief you just can't win with facts.

My mom was a valium user who relied on her 'gut' to make every ridiculous decision she ever made and the argument your MIL made is so far out there that is reminded me of my mom. There is no talking her down because she is comfortable sitting in the mess she made (by voting for GWB). I appreciate your frustration. :hug:

[Oak2004]

133. Older people do not (generally) think like younger people

and one thing that can happen to some older people is that they become more rigid and black-and-white in their thinking. Many of them also become more gullible, i.e. become as good a target for Republicans as they have been over the decades for con artists. And yes, Republicans have been knowingly targeting and scamming seniors for years: one good example is the creepy CR "send us your money to defend social security" mailings of a few years ago.

I think it is possible to reach older people. I also think that older people often need to be approached differently than younger people, with an awareness of their possible cognitive limitations, and with awareness that the con artists Republicans have been deliberately working them for a while.

[Roland99]

56. Style over substance; Campaigning over Governing

[krkaufman]

89. You might ask your G'ma about that Rush quote I hear played on Thom Hartmann all the time...

Rush Limbaugh: "Roosevelt is dead, his policies may live on, but we're in the process of doing something about that as well."

Limbaugh has been a soldier on the front lines of the deregulation that has brought-on this economic crisis, stripping the post-Depression rules put in place by FDR. Does she really think there would be Social Security if the Rush Limbaughs of the world had their way?

And if Limbaugh is such a "good and wise man", why has he lied to his listeners, according to his own words...

Limbaugh: "I no longer am going to have to carry the water for people who I don't think deserve having their water carried"

[1corona4u]

3. Fuck her.

:-)

[yellerpup]

12. I'm not feeling a lot of sympathy for her today.

:hi:

[1corona4u]

25. I wouldn't either.

I stay away from people I know are rightwingers...their stupidity is what has us where we are right now, and I resent that.

[yellerpup]

29. Me, too.

Just fries my ass, actually! :grr:

[lapislzi]

6. Not to diss you, friend, but write off her words at your own peril.

There's a grain of truth in what your ex-friend is saying. The one-issue voters have been a reliable voting bloc for decades, and Palin was selected especially to draw them out. And I have seen with my own eyes, here in NY of all places, otherwise-intelligent people who are, in fact, mesmerized by Palin's little act.

Remember who you're up against: the average watcher of Fox News. And there's a lot of them. Some you can't reach, no matter what you do. Some you can, and you will, by appealing to their self-interest. But denying that there is a yawning cultural divide in this country is foolish. It's there, big as life, for the Republicans to exploit every chance they get.

[yellerpup]

16. That's why I register new voters.

That's why I donate to Democratic campaigns. That's why I take nothing for granted and work every day as if there will never be a second chance. This election is too important. I know there are ignorant people out there, but if I can't convince this one by now, I'm ready to move on. We'll never get the Kool-Aid drinkers, but there ARE plenty of people who are suffering and feel a need for leadership. Those, I am determined to round up and get to the polls.

[mamalone]

18. Sadly, I hear exactly what you are saying

I'm in NY too, BTW. There are lots and lots of one issue voters. I don't know how many times I've had political discussions with folks here- they agree with Obama on so much and they acknowledge that. But they always end up saying something like, "Oh well, I feel badly about it, but I just can't in good conscience vote for someone who isn't pro-life." When Palin first came out and I was utterly appalled, they were all aglow. Any criticism of her is countered by, "Well, she had that baby with Down syndrome.... it doesn't get more pro-life than that!" The hard-right has manipulated these people for so long and done it so well, that they now believe that a candidates position on abortion trumps pretty much anything else.

I so intensely wish Obama had done something, anything to neutralize the abortion issue even a little bit at some point earlier in the campaign. If he had then an idiot like Palin never would have had the power wedge that she does now.

[yellerpup]

23. Anti-choice people are only 35% of the entire POPULATION.

Not all of them are going to the polls. The Middle-of-the-Road GOP is going to sleep in on election day they may get to the polls and they may not. Conditions will have to be prefect for them to go out and vote AGAINST Obama because only the rabid far right is going to vote FOR the ticket. IMO, of course.

[mamalone]

27. Well, 35% is a pretty large segment of the population to discount don't you think?

I really think that if Obama were somehow able to make himself more acceptable to the pro-choice crowd the evangelicals would have flocked to him long ago. I've said this before and been scoffed down, so maybe I'm wrong... but so much of what Obama stands for are things that these people hold near and dear. A lot of them have told me personally they want to vote for him, but can't "beacuse of the abortion thing." I think we as a party have made a big mistake by seeing pro-life voters as not worth addressing.

[yellerpup]

30. I think Obama has gone about as far as he can to try to bring them

in without changing sides. Birth control (in whatever form) is a health care issue. Women need to be in charge of their own, personal health care decisions. I am not saying that anti-choice folk are 35% of the electorate, either. As for discounting them, I'll trade them for 65% any time. If the evangelicals believe in Jesus' teachings, then Obama should attract them on other issues. The Government should not be the decision maker when it comes to having and raising a child.

[mamalone]

31. You wrote:

"The Government should not be the decision maker when it comes to having and raising a child."

Yes, that is pretty much the definition of the pro-choice position.:D But I really don't agree that Obama "has gone about as far as he can to try and bring them in without changing sides." I think that he can be very unwavering about his commitment to safe and legal abortions, and still reach out in a concrete way. For example, just by giving lip service to the idea that abortions are unfortunate and that reducing their frequency would be a worthy goal... or... framing some facets of his social agenda to in part reduce the need for abortions in that they would support women and families that might prefer to complete their pregnancy but feel that they economic or other pressures limiting them. Just these couple of things would do nothing to actually change his platform or his philosophies, but they would go a tremendous distance in making pro-life voters feel that they are welcome under this tent, that their views are tolerated, and that they are respected.

Just my opinion, of course:hi:

[yellerpup]

36. You know, I think I recall him saying some of the things that you

mention would be helpful in framing the choice argument. I'm going to check his website and see if I can find some for you. Thanks for keeping it real. :hi:

[mamalone]

49. I see him as a man of great compassion and empathy...

I think that he really could be the person to bring the two sides of this issue together... well maybe not together- that's probably not possible. But I have seen him do some incredible things with people. If anyone can diffuse some of the animosity between the pro-life and the pro-choice folks, Obama would be the guy to do it. I haven't seen him using his skills in this area and it frustrates me a bit... if you can find that info, I'd be very interested in it.

and hey, I appreciate your real-ness too:hi:

[yellerpup]

57. I posted a request for a link in the Obama forum here on DU.

I know it exists, I just got caught in some fake sites when I went online this afternoon. We'll find it.

[mamalone]

59. Thanks so much!

:hi:

[Doremus]

77. He's been very adamant about wanting to reduce the number of abortions.

He's said it pretty much whenever someone asks him his stance on abortion. :shrug:

As the other poster said, he's done about all he can do to welcome pro-life voters without changing sides, imho.

With some folks, there is no 'happy middle,' and this issue is often one of them.


edited for clarity

[mamalone]

92. I'm sorry but I haven't ever heard this...

I'm not doubting you, friend, but I honestly have never heard him say anything other than his assurances about his commitment to choice. And even if he has "been adamant about wanting to reduce the number of abortions" he isn't saying it often enough or clearly enough for it to be heard by the folks that need to hear it the most. I think I understand his hesitancy... he doesn't want to seem as though his commitment to choice is subject to waver or change. I get that. I imagine that he would get tons of heat from our base if there was a whiff of inconsistency from him- I mean seriously do any of you remember a couple of years ago when Hillary came out and gave a speech trying to get people to come to some kind of middle ground? She asked, "Can we not all agree that abortions are unfortunate things, and that reducing them is in the benefit of us all?" She was crucified! and by both sides, I might add. It is a tough tough issue, no doubt about it. But I still think that Obama could be doing more... he does, after all, want to be president of all Americans.


Once again.. just my opinion:hi:

[Doremus]

115. You might not have heard it because abortion as an issue hasn't been discussed widely yet.

I believe I last heard it discussed during the O'Reilly interview (figures). Barack was *very clear* about wanting to reduce the number of abortions. He said basically what you quoted Hillary as saying.

Each time I've heard him answer the questions it's always the same reply. That's why I don't understand your question on this issue.

[mamalone]

116. I agree that it hasn't been discussed widely

And as a result things like the "Born Alive" act and his statement on not wanting his daughter to "be punished with a baby" have been misrepresented and viciously used against him in this campaign. There are certain segments of society in which this issue is a huge deal and the dearth of time and energy we have spent on it has left a vacuum into which the repubs can throw all kinds of garbage. Like I said in post number 27, I think that we have made a big mistake in basically abdicating the pro-life voters to the rebubs. Obama has the skills and personality to win them over... and without compromising his pro-choice and philosophical principles. (see post 66 for my ideas on how this could be framed) He just needs to do it.





edited to correct spelling:blush:

[krkaufman]

95. You greatly overestimate the flexibility and open-mindedness of the Right Wing ...

... single-issue voter.

[mamalone]

102. Yeah... I probably do....

But I don't think we should use their closed-mindedness as an excuse to be closed-minded ourselves. As I frequently tell my kids: "Let's see how big we can be." :)

[krkaufman]

104. And there's a difference between being flexible and pandering.

Obama has been as clear and open on the issue as one can be without acceding to some of the more vile of the Right Wing positions.

[mamalone]

106. Well......

As I've mentioned in my other posts on this thread, I don't really agree that he has done all he can to neutralize this issue. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point I guess.:hi:

[krkaufman]

110. Guess so...!

Tally ho...! :dem:

[knixphan]

40. seconded!!

[yellerpup]

48. Martini time!

:toast:

[knixphan]

39. I've encountered a couple of crazy one-issue folks

Who are simply 'anti-paying taxes'. of any sort... wtf? And the democratic party seems to embody the entire concept of taxation for them. Sadly, they won't grow up.

[yellerpup]

47. They are detatched.

My BIL was the same way, a Lyndon LaRouche-type tax avoider and very self-righteous about it until the IRS caught up with him and 'splained the facts of life, death and taxes in a way he could understand. He put his family in a real money bind, now his only son is on his fifth tour in the Iraq/Afghanistan rotation. The son joined the military to stick a knife in dad's ribs because dad messed up so much he couldn't afford to help with college. The kid will never be the same if he comes back and the way he keeps on keeping on, I don't think he cares much whether he does or not. :cry:

[mamalone]

51. I have heard of the "anti-tax" folks...

Odd concept isn't it? How do they think that the government should function? How could we have police, fire fighters and the like? The whole idea just seems totally divorced from reality, to put it mildly:eyes:

[yellerpup]

60. Sure, we can just all build our own highway.

Go anywhere we want to go. Dig our own water wells, deliver our own letters and packages. Everybody gets their own gun! It's stupid, really. Divorced indeed!

[knixphan]

82. Amen x2

But it is a brilliant way of them avoiding any points I try to make about the validity of our candidate.

[yellerpup]

99. On the money, my friend. n/t

[WeDidIt]

7. I've not had a friendly relationship with any Republican for almost eight years

Nor will I ever be friends with any Republican ever again in my life.

Life's too short to be friendly with pricks.

[yellerpup]

17. I've been steering clear of the Repugs I know for a looooong time now--

almost eight years in fact. This friend used to be a Democrat until the old boyfriend popped up again just recently. He's a user, and I'm out of sympathy. Unfortunately, this is the way she has taught her daughter (by example) to behave with men.

[knixphan]

13. IF we got all the 18-24's

We wouldn't need to worry about our crazy-ass neighbors.

Young people are the future...

Nay, the PRESENT!

[yellerpup]

19. Second that!

We borrow the present from our children and create the future we would want them to have...I think that is a paraphrase of Chief Seattle. GWB has failed us all. McCain would be worse, and Palin would be the stupidest choice of all. I can't believe she's getting any traction at all. (except for that 30% of the GOP that is Fundie)

[monmouth]

15. I've "block sender" to a lot of people, both friends and rels.. It feels very good...n/t

[yellerpup]

20. There's a thought!

:toast:

[Terran]

21. tell her

"mesmerized" = BAD THING. Look it up.

[yellerpup]

26. Yes, Mesmer. I know what it means.

The kid is mesmerized by trouser snakes. I got her a job when she was in HS and she was a gun nut then because her boyfriend was. I'll use your suggestion on her IF she speaks to me again. LOL!

[Terran]

45. Oh yeah, I figured you knew

what it meant...just not her.

It's a interesting choice of word, because I think quite a few people basically are mesmerized by the spectacle of a wacko conservative gun toting allegedly sexy female republican running for Veep.

[yellerpup]

100. Just too bad that's not what we need right now...

Isn't that kind of a geek effect? :rofl:

[madmom]

22. When they talk abortion rights, ask them why in the 6 years repugs had TOTAL control nothing

was done, WHY? because they don't want to do anything that will loose them their wedge issue!

[yellerpup]

28. Good point!

Although they did do a sneaky in the latest bill... Can't trust them with women's rights, for sure!

[mamalone]

66. Seriously... this is the best tack, IMO

Remind them that their "votes for life" have not accomplished anything in line with their values. Remind them that these same politicians who talk about the evils of abortion are also the same ones who reduce the funding for programs for women/children, thereby putting many conflicted pregnant women in the position of feeling they have no choice but abortion.
Remind them that the Dems advocate caring for the most vulnerable in our society, and are willing to back relevant programs up with funding, thereby allowing conflicted pregnant women to complete their pregnancies.
Remind them that overturning Roe v Wade will not outlaw abortion, only throw the issue back to the states, and that most states will still allow abortions. (you would be amazed to know how many pro-lifers aren't fully clear on this)
And after that, ask them if they want to waste their vote by making an ineffectual philosophical "statement" or if they really want to use it to reduce the number of abortions in this country... if it's the latter then the Dem party is the one for them:D

[yellerpup]

101. I think you've come up with a plan!

Good thinking mamalone. You should be able to make inroad with this message. Good for you!

[mamalone]

117. Thanks so much:)

It may sound silly, but I really do wish I could share my thoughts about this with the campaign. However, I'm sure I'm no different than legions of "back seat strategists" who are anxious to share their (dubious?) wisdom, LOL. I just hate to see them losing out on the votes of folks I am sure they could win... and I hate for those voters to lose out on the chance of voting for Obama!

[yellerpup]

119. Be the Change.

It's more efficient for you to go there yourself since you have obviously been working all along to build credibility with those whom you wish to convert. Don't wait on anyone to do it for you, mamalone; time is short. Go to the ones you are sure can be won and win them. You care more about bringing in this part of the vote than anyone else I've heard speak on this forum. I have found that success is the most convincing argument for any method. Have faith in yourself and believe in your own power. You've convinced me! :hug:

[faithfulcitizen]

32. So, what was the point of her sending you anti-Palin protest pics in the first place?

[yellerpup]

34. She wanted to draw me into an argument, evidently.

She just "terminated" our friendship and warned me "do not contact me again." I think that was the true purpose. Her "ex" forbid her to be friends with me when they were going together. He treated her like dirt and continued to stalk her even after he was engaged. I got involved by advising him that what he was doing was not only unfair to her but also illegal. They are not back together because he is married, she is just easily manipulated by him and he is a controlling bastard. He's going to screw her (again) and he didn't want me around playing Jimminy Cricket this time. Oh, well...

[WolverineDG]

75. That's happened to me too

more than once with one Dem-turned-rightwing nutjob. First time, I left the door open for her to come back & she did. But later she turned back to her nut-job ways, picked a fight over gay rights (because her church told her I was a lesbian since I'm not married :wtf: ). She then made this big announcement about how she was blocking my email, & I said "okay" & blocked her too. Now I hear from others about how "sorry" she is & wants to be my friend again....sorry, but I'm not stupid.

dg

[yellerpup]

79. You don't need more disappointment.

Some people are just users. Once people crap on me and brag about it behind my back, I don't see any reason to let them back into my heart. If you're hearing it from others and she hasn't taken steps to apologize for hurting you, then that's my definition of talking behind your back. No, you're obviously not stupid. We are involved in an important movement that will affect the history of this country for years, perhaps centuries into the future. We can't allow the status quo to stand. You be your own brave, principled self and stand up for gay rights (even though you aren't gay--that's so nutty, it would be laughable if it wasn't so freakin' alienating!) and all the important issues that are necessary for a healthy democracy and KNOW YOU ARE NOT ALONE! Once a nut-job...well, you just can't trust her, that's all. :hug:

[WolverineDG]

85. Thanks

:hug:


dg

[codjh9]

33. There are just a *FEW* liberals outside of the 'liberal New York metropolitan area...

[yellerpup]

35. I am originally from Oklahoma

I was a liberal there and I am a liberal here. On the other hand, she's never lived anywhere but the NY Metro area so that makes her the expert on what "everybody" thinks. She just demanded that I never contact her again. I wonder who she'll call the NEXT time she needs a favor at 6 AM? :rofl:

[knixphan]

42. I was just going to say that!

[faithfulcitizen]

44. Wow, she lives in New York city? As someone once called me in Indiana...

like a skunk at a picnic.

[yellerpup]

50. She is officially 'undecided', she says...

but yes, I smell a whiff of woods-kitty about her. Definitely a skunk at a picnic! :rofl:

[CitizenPatriot]

41. I have gone through this too

my new response is a simple, "I hope you can live with the enormity of your single-minded decision. Pro-life means a lot more than choice issues, and certainly the Jesus I studied agrees with that. I'm afraid this decision will haunt you in the future. Good luck. And don't come to me or any community organizers when you need help someday, because this is THE referendum on greed, scorn, failure to educate ourselves, and America's utter lack of moral authority in the world right now."

Not too many of them left, don't know why.

[yellerpup]

52. Wow, that is a very strong response.

I hope you don't mind if I quote you someday. :hi:

[CitizenPatriot]

58. I would be honored if you quoted me:-)

you know, I figured out they weren't listening and frankly, I don't have it in me anymore to be silent.

They aren't paying attention and their vote could well be leading us into utter failure and the demise of democracy once and for all. Saying you are voting pro-life in this election is as ignorant and selfish as saying you are voting on any other special cause. There are much greater issues at stake right now. Global issues. This is not the time for personal agenda. And yes, we all have them - fine. But know when to set them aside and do what is best for your country and your fellow Americans. There are people dying right now because of this regime. McCain and Palin are both war mongers who have threatened Spain, Russia, and Iran in the last FEW days! To vote for them is to vote for death and destruction and I'm not going to allow these idiots to say they didn't know, like they did with Bush.

they know, because they've been told. They chose not to listen, then it is on their conscience at night. There will be no more "idiot" excuses for bad, uninformed or selfish votes. good luck with it, I say.

[yellerpup]

64. This is it for me, too.

We have to win or the USA will no longer exist as a democracy. I too have decided to fight back. I'm not babying anyone's f*%#ed up feelings or letting the lies go unanswered for fear of alienating anyone. I'm going to be a poll worker this election because I want people who are eligible to vote to be able to vote, I want to be on hand to make sure that nothing gets misplaced or mishandled. I want the true vote counted even if I have to count them myself! And until election day, I am going to be working for Obama like this is our very last chance in the world.

[CitizenPatriot]

69. me, too...

working here in Georgia and we are seriously kicking some major as& here. This is it.

You rock! thanks for the inspiration:-)

[yellerpup]

74. I spent 2004 in NC and registering DEM voters was the highlight of my stay.

I truly admire the great progress you've made in GA and am excited by the possibilities. You're kickin' ass down South! Well, baby YOU ROCK! Stay strong. We are the one we've been waiting for. We bring the CHANGE we need. You ARE inspiration! When I think of GA going for Obama, I see you as...O8)

[CitizenPatriot]

76. THANKS!

:pals:


People are going to be shocked aren't they???? It hasn't gotten out there yet....but we are so damn proud....:-) Honestly, we had some great leaders here and so many wonderful volunteers....Very committed people! :toast: Obama called us himself to thank us! I almost broke into tears that day; I had never expected what we were doing was making that big of a difference. His leadership and ability to motivate people is so apparent, just working on his campaign as a volunteer.

Where are you this year?

Yes, WE ARE THE CHANGE we need.....YOU rock, and you stay strong; I know it's hard sometimes....but I also know we will have every reason to celebrate on Nov 5. This country will begin to be restored and healed. We are so fortunate to have Obama as our POTUS at this critical time. I am so very grateful. All that we need is here.

I can't wait to have a virtual celebratory bevvie with you!!! Keep up the GREAT fight!!

[yellerpup]

80. I'm back in NY now.

I'm with you all the way. Obama must be our POTUS. The whole world will change for the better, and America will regain her dignity. I'm so proud of you and him and all of us who are working so hard to make this vision of a better world happen. I need to get going for the evening, but It was just great hanging with you this afternoon. What a party we will have on THE GREAT DAY! :toast:

[knixphan]

84. Hell yes.

Very well said, and seconded!

[eshfemme]

43. If your friends wants to make such an issue about how liberal NY metro area is so different

from middle America and the South then ask them why they want to take the side of terrorists? Because guess what? 9/11 was an attack of NEW YORK CITY, that very bastion of liberal metropolitan values that the neocons like to sneer at. Yet, somehow, attacking the very same liberals values is considered "American" or "patriotic."

Maybe it's because the 7th anniversary of 9/11 is still heavy on my mind but I've had enough of this. This whole fucking tendency to use 9/11 as a reason or justification for all this fucked bullshit while at the same sneering at the "different" values or lifestyles of people who went through that day. As a New Yorker, I find it such crap that some fucking redneck in Peoria might laugh at my cosmopolitan lifestyle/outlook or my liberalness and yet will clutch at the American flag and claim that the very same Americans that terrorists killed in 9/11 were so patriotic when a lot of them share the same values I hold. It's fucking retarded.

Sorry about my rant. I'm just pissed off... just seeing Bush's lack of response just makes me flashback to all the different situations he DIDN'T respond to in a timely fashion without people pressuring him to act like with 9/11, Katrina or this time. He's sure fast on the uptake when it comes to times when he can grandstand (Mission Accomplished, my fucking ass). But in times when he has to face down danger or criticism or questions, he's a fucking coward hiding in the White House.

[yellerpup]

55. No need to apologize to me for your strong feelings.

Bush is a failure and has been a failure in everything he has touched. I'll never forget that day after the WTC then even the Pentagon was attacked. That the attackers chose the Pentagon said to me: "This is WAR!" So, if someone started a f*%#ing WAR where the hell was our leadership? Do you remember that it took him all day and half the evening to 'get back to us' because he was hiding in a bunker somewhere? I can't think about it without going ballistic. It took YEARS for me to be able to sleep anywhere but in front of the TV set because I was sure the next attack was coming any minute now... I know that's nuts, but you don't just shake off that kind of trauma. Rant on, eshfemme! Whatever it takes, love.

[eshfemme]

63. Yes, I vividly remember hearing about whatever city Bush was flying to next EXCEPT for NYC

So yeah, I will never forget or forgive the fact that he was a Coward-in-Chief and not a Commander-in-Chief.

What fucking pisses me off even more is that McCain looks to be even worse because he looks to be someone who's not just gonna be plain irresponsible like Bush but he's always going to be pushing the blame off to someone else.

Why does no one see Obama and how he acts and just how much good he would do as President? I guess a lot of my frustration is that if he were President NOW, I can't help but feel like this situation would be well in hand or at least, I and a lot of people would have that much more confidence that the markets WILL stabilize. It feels like an echo of that atmosphere after 9/11 but instead of a terrorist attack, it's a financial collapse that will, just like the aftermath of 9/11, curtail our lives and our future.

And yeah, for me, it was the opposite-- it took a long time before I could actually watch a news program again. It took me till the 2004 elections actually. The only way I got my news in the meantime was basically the Daily Show because anything else, I just hated and reacted in a visceral way probably because after 9/11, the news was on 24/7 and it was inextricably linked together.

[yellerpup]

71. BinLaden set out to destroy us economically.

The WTC was merely a symbol of that. Now, look what has been accomplished less than 8 years later. Every move GWB has made plaed right into the terrorist's hands. I'm sure they are wishing for an even rasher bozo this election, and are probably praying for McCain to be elected.

I watched TV so much because on the day I was looking for faces I knew in the crowd. After that, I was afraid to look bur more afraid not to.

[iiibbb]

53. Although I wouldn't have used her language about "ivory tower"

...but she's not wrong.

Many underestimate the views of those in the South and in middle America. Many can't resist talking down to people who may be conflicted...

as evidenced by your response to your "ex-friend's" comment.


I can understand the anger and frustration the last 8 years have caused. My wife is beside herself. But, speaking as an independent who finds himself straddling the fence on a lot of issues. The goal is to change people's minds not close them. If you want to change minds... I suggest another tact.

[yellerpup]

61. Thank you for your concern.

I hope you will vote for Obama.

[iiibbb]

62. Absolutely voting for Obama...

[yellerpup]

65. One vote at a time

All over the nation! :toast:

[mitchum]

98. But those fucking REDNECKS (and they are rednecks) have been driving our culture for years now

to the detriment of all of us
Sorry, but I am goddamn sick of their ceaseless and dishonest whining about how "they are always ignored"

[yellerpup]

103. They are so fucking stupid

it's hard to take them seriously. One neotard I saw at the street fair last weekend told me that "It's the Republicans who have been fighting Communism all these years." His wife rolled her eyes and dragged him away from me. He was the only one who thought he was making sense. The deserve to be ignored! If I heard them say something smart, I might pay attention. :headbang:

[graywarrior]

54. That's how the republicans work.

Mesmerize....awake hypnosis/911...you are getting sleepy....you are afraid you are afraid....shiny object Palin....vote republican.

[yellerpup]

68. Charlatans to a one!

As a Democrat I say, WAKE UP! Stay alive! Fight for your rights before you are enslaved by a corporation, before you owe your soul to the company store, before democracy is lost forever! Stand up and vote! I have heard that they shellac moose poop and make it into novelty jewelry in Alaska..that's whats shiny about Palin.

[graywarrior]

72. Wake up is right!

Snap the fuck out of it. CHANGE means you DO SOMETHING TO MAKE IT DIFFERENT.

[yellerpup]

73. In sync on that, graywarrior.

Love the duck, btw! WORK for CHANGE!

[Cha]

93. Shellacked moose poop..omg.

I believe you!

[yellerpup]

94. I read it yesterday on an Alaskan blog.

Sorry I don't have a link. I didn't know I'd be talking about it today! Good to see you again, zidzi! :hi:

edit for spelling

[krabigirl]

67. Wow - I guess she doesn't care about unemployment, food prices, etc.

I would assume those are affecting middle AMerica more than those in "ivory towers."

[yellerpup]

70. She will care about those issues when she is unemployed, not before.

She has a good job and I work part-time, yet I refuse to go shopping at Walmart with her. She's offended that I won't shop there on principle. She has lectured me on being smarter with my money and implies that I am clueless because I don't look out for #1 first. I insist on shopping in the local grocery store, stationery store, restaurants, etc. where I can go on foot and she thinks I am boring because of it. Personally, I think that taking care of oneself is one of the best things a person can do for one's community, one's family, and one's country. Not that I never get out of town, either, I live within walking distance to the train to NY City.

[Geek_Girl]

78. Well to a certain extent your both right but I'd say Obama has the momentum at the moment

and the Palin dazzle has worn off somewhat. That's not to say Rove doesn't have any other tricks up his sleeve though. I live in the South East and I've seen some semi-conservative independents types be-dazzled by Palin but I think it's wearing off a little. I think by the end of the debates she'll be a joke.

[yellerpup]

97. Intresting observation, Geek_Girl.

Always good to have a first hand report from the front lines. I sense you are completely on target about the debates. :hi:

Edit for typo

[renie408]

83. Congratulations!! n/t

[yellerpup]

114. Thanks. Today it is a badge of honor.

:hi:

[knixphan]

86. Old repub friends, New dem friends...

Just thinking...

Seems mighty inefficient to spend the next 46 days chasing one person around (who probably isn't going to turn...) When one can spend those days seeking out new, fresh, open minds - people actually willing to participate in intelligent discourse!

Smart money is on the 'new' contacts, not the old. For every ex-friend, there are 5 more new converts, who may even become friends...

This has been a big issue lately with those of us who have been dealing with the family/friend disagreement thing. A lot of folks deny the simple fact that humans evolve, and our compatibility with other humans evolves as well. Sometimes this means the compatibility evaporates. C'est la vie. Dissapointing, yes, but C'est la vie. There are still 6 billion humans on the planet. Potential friends abound. Look at all of us DU'ers!

[yellerpup]

105. They need to get on the bus.

I just came back from converting two former Republicans this evening. Both women in their 60s. One I've helped in the local Women's Club and Rotary and volunteered to help her with her Christmas program for disadvantaged children, one was abandoned by her Pug friends when she lost her larynx to cancer so she asked me to step in and help her last Christmas. I made 144 dozen cookies for the kids in the local shelter (her pet project). They both think Palin is a joke. Score two for the yellerpup! Keep moving forward, don't let the bastards get you down and fight every day like it's the last day of your life! I'm digging all this movement toward Obama. And, I love DU knixphan! We've gotta win this for the WORLD! Thanks for sharing your energy today!

[Poseidan]

88. ...

Most Republicans are decent enough. They are more misunderstood than anything. They seem evil and incompetent, but they actually have a number of strange neuroses going on... could be insecurity issue's or something else you might not consider. They fuck up, then they feel bad about themselves and try to cover up their fuck-up with more fuck-ups. It's stupid as shit, but they have weird stuff going on in their brain's. They try to be good, but some kind of internal compulsion leads them astray. They're like pet animals but human enough to delude themselves into believing they know better than you.

This is untrue for confederates, who shall receive no aid or comfort.

[yellerpup]

107. I just posted this above.

I hate no one, especially for their political affiliation...


I just came back from converting two former Republicans this evening. Both women in their 60s. One I've helped in the local Women's Club and Rotary and volunteered to help her with her Christmas program for disadvantaged children, one was abandoned by her Pug friends when she lost her larynx to cancer so she asked me to step in and help her last Christmas. I made 144 dozen cookies for the kids in the local shelter (her pet project). They both think Palin is a joke. Score two for the yellerpup! Keep moving forward, don't let the bastards get you down and fight every day like it's the last day of your life! I'm digging all this movement toward Obama.

We are individuals. I've been wrong before and everyone deserves forgiveness. All they gotta do is CHANGE! :hi:

[Cha]

91. Tell her you don't think she's an "idiot" ..just a liar and that

doesn't fly with you. That is if you ever speak again.

:hug: from those who empathize deeply!

[yellerpup]

108. She demanded that I never contact her again.

If I do talk to her again, rest assured that I will be respectful of her feelings. You have a sweet soul, zidzi. Thanks for your compassion and you input. :hug:

[Cha]

112. That's very

kind of you, yellerpup:hug:

I read so much on here(not just your thread) about how important it is not to underestimate and we shouldn't be writing her off as an idiot but the bottom line is palin lies and makes up crap outta thin air or she's repeating page after page of scripted lies. So if she lies so easily how can she be trusted? Ever?

It's not about her mesmerzing it's about her lying and her lies will come back to haunt her.. one way or another she'll be held accountable.

I don't mean that you'd ever say this to a supporter ..it's just something to think about for those who might get caught off guard by someone sucked in by the gimmick.

[yellerpup]

113. Look where lies have gotten us already?

So many innocents have suffered and died. We have lost so many of our strong young people. The last thing we need is another hard drinkin' good ol' boy/gal who can catapult the propaganda! :hi:

[Cha]

122. Excellent POINT...

"Look where their lies have gotten us already"!

:hi:

[yellerpup]

123. Are you sure you aren't my twin?

:rofl: :hug:

[Cha]

126. Astro

political twin :hug:

[minnesota_liberal]

109. No loss

Your ex-friend is an unenlightened hick.

[yellerpup]

111. Thanks for your support, minnesota_liberal.

She's parroting the neocon rantings of a man who disrespects her privately and insults her publicly. I am disappointed in her behavior that she would allow herself to become a puppet for the RW, but just as you suggest...I am feeling No loss. Mr. Pup sighs with relief. He says, "What a relief. Of all your friends, she always had the worst taste in men!" Even worse taste in politicians, IMO! :hi:

edit for typo

[RagAss]

118. Yeller...just thank God that you advanced beyond your friend....

leaving people behind is part of life !

[yellerpup]

120. I hear that, Ragazz68.

The only constant is change. I would feel like such a failure to be 'undecided' about what I want to see (and help make) happen next. We are going to CHANGE the world! Peace! :toast:

[knixphan]

125. seconded!

[crazy_vanilla]

121. and this is your loss because?

She'll come around when she stops hoping the republican ex will take her back.

[yellerpup]

127. She's going to have to do something smart AND compassionate

(for someone other than herself and her daughter) to get my attention, though. I've devoted too much time to helping both of them out of jams already. My time would be better spent on doing something positive for someone that would make a difference. She's too old to be making the same insane mistakes over and over and I'm old enough to realize that she won't change.

[asdjrocky]

124. That's the thing about people-

Many of them are dumb.

[yellerpup]

128. I don't know why I find that so frustrating.

Simple fact of life, though, and you are right. Love your RC avatar. He was one of the most exciting entertainers ever in the country. He's who I miss.

[and-justice-for-all]

129. I think it has been proven...

that people do not like people who are smarter then they are.

That would explain why a certain clutch of people find failin 'mesmerizing', because she is just a dumb as they are. Just like Bill Mahar had stated 'Your not voting for Obama because he is smarter than you.'

I personally feel that it is fast fading trend and consciouses people are taking the reins this time. call me optimistic, but enough is enough.

[yellerpup]

131. I hope that the pervading anti-intellectualism that has dominated during the

GWB years is a fading trend (at long last). I think that Obama canset an example that makes being informed and thoughtful 'in style' again. Enough IS enough and with luck, now is the time for positive change.

[Top Cat]

130. I feel sorry for anyone fooled by Palin when the truth is staring them in the face.

[yellerpup]

132. Me, too.

Actually, it makes me angry when people choose lies over truth for any reason, especially if that person clings to ignorance and prejudice (spoken or unspoken). I read it as weakness and moral deficiency.