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Heather MC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:19 PM
Original message
DU, I NEED YOUR HELP
I Wrote a republican Person I know. I asked her How can she support McCain
She answered my letter with Choppy links to various things.

So here is one of them, concerning equal pay for women
Heather,

Regarding equal pay for equal work, let's take a look at the Obama vs McCain staff salaries.

Case in point:

Equal pay for women? Not among Obama's Senate staff!
Saturday September 13, 2008
posted by Michele McGinty @ 8:20am


It seems that Obama has been shortchanging his female Senate staffers :

Obama's 28 male staffers divided among themselves total payroll expenditures of $1,523,120. Thus, Obama's average male employee earned $54,397.

Obama's 30 female employees split $1,354,580 among themselves, or $45,152, on average.

Even though he's touting his support of mandating equal pay for women in the workplace and even though he charged that McCain doesn't support equal pay for women:
Obama responded Aug. 31 to Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's Republican vice-presidential nomination. Palin "seems like a very engaging person," Obama told voters in Toledo, Ohio. "But I've got to say, she's opposed - like John McCain is - to equal pay for equal work. That doesn't make much sense to me."

But McCain actually pays his female Senate staff more than the males:
McCain's 17 male staffers split $916,914, thus averaging $53,936. His 25 female employees divided $1,396,958 and averaged $55,878.

On average, according to these data, women in McCain's office make $1.04 for every dollar a man makes. In fact, all other things being equal, a typical female staffer could earn 21 cents more per dollar paid to her male counterpart - while adding $10,726 to her annual income - by leaving Obama's office and going to work for McCain.


Typical Democrat behavior! Mandating practices that they don't follow themselves.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Averages are bullshit.
Edited on Fri Sep-19-08 03:21 PM by Richardo
I demand a position-by-position breakdown of gender salaries.

For that matter, I'd like to know where these statistics come from.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I agree...
This doesn't show how much each makes or what the jobs are.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Exactly! You beat me to it!
They have to compare positions, not just gender. It's equal pay for equal POSITIONS!

Loons, I swear to freaking GAWD they are all loons!
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. It also doesn't take into account the length of time some have been working for him...
Typically there are "entry level" salaries paid for certain positions, and raises when they've worked for a certain amount of time.

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Very true...
The RW doesn't understand apple to apple comparisons at all.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Anyone got extra butter?
:popcorn: :popcorn:
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. This calls for special, patriotic butter!
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. equal pay for equal work. That's why her averages are BS. She doesn't say
what the pay breakdown is by position and gender, only by gender.

A junior worker will always earn less than a principle or senior staff member - regardless of gender.

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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree with Richardo. Averages mean nothing in this example.
In order to analyze the data, you'd have to know the exactly salary breakdowns. You'd also need to know what each staffer's job is - you know, the "equal work" part of equal pay for equal work.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. Link...
Edited on Fri Sep-19-08 03:27 PM by babylonsister
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Ask this nut if all the women at the co. where she worked made the
same? Or for that matter, all the MEN? You CAN'T use averages to prove anything! I'm POSITIVE Axelrod, who is the campaign mge. makes more than one of the newly hired staffers. What she's peddeling is BS!
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. And about this part:
"Typical Democrat behavior! Mandating practices that they don't follow themselves."

I'd be tempted to respond with "Typical Republican behavior! Spouting fake facts they clearly don't understand!"
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Heather MC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. The quote is from the actual artical, not her words, other wise I would
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Left Is Write Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. I know it's from the article. She obviously believes the article, though -
so you could still toss it back to her.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. A dose of LOGIC - men staffers tend to leave sooner due to advancements while women
Edited on Fri Sep-19-08 03:27 PM by blm
staffers with less opportunities in DC would stay year after year with raises. Of course, women stay longer also because they tend to be more loyal employees.

bama's staff would be newer employees since Jan 2005...how many raises do you fit into 3 years compared to McCain's 26 years?

Tell your friend to apply some simple LOGIC.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. I call bullshit...this came from cnsnews.com...
It's a RW smear site. They've got Michelle Malkin and Pat Buchanan as column contributors.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. The Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act; Mccain outright OPPOSES it:
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Heather MC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Thanks!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Political Tiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. McCain Votes Against Equal Pay Protections for Women at Work
McCain Votes Against Equal Pay Protections for Women at Work

McCain Voted Twice Against Equal Pay For Women.

Twice, McCain voted to deny equal pay rights for millions of women in America, as part of a supposed overhaul of minimum wage laws that would have actually removed existing protections for many workers.<1>

McCain Skipped Important Vote On Pay Discrimination To Attend Campaign Events.

McCain aide Brian Rogers said McCain will not come back for a vote to change civil rights law to make it easier for workers to sue for pay discrimination long after the initial act of alleged discrimination. Sens. Obama and Clinton are expected to return for the vote.<2>

McCain Said He Does Not Support Equal Pay Law.

McCain, who did not return to Washington for the vote, said "I am all in favor of pay equity for women, but this kind of legislation, as is typical of what's being proposed by my friends on the other side of the aisle, opens us up to lawsuits for all kinds of problems. This is government playing a much, much greater role in the business of a private enterprise system."<3>

McCain Said Women Need More "Education And Training."

McCain also said, "They need the education and training, particularly since more and more women are heads of their households, as much or more than anybody else. And it's hard for them to leave their families when they don't have somebody to take care of them. It's a vicious cycle that's affecting women, particularly in a part of the country like this, where mining is the mainstay; traditionally, women have not gone into that line of work, to say the least."<4>

McCain's Recent Rhetoric Doesn't Match His Record

MCCAIN SAID: Complained that Women Earn Less Than Men and Promised More Women to His Administration.

MCCAIN’S VOTING RECORD: Consistently Voted Against Wage and Employment Discrimination Issues.

2008: McCain Skipped Important Vote On Pay Discrimination To Attend Campaign Events. McCain aide Brian Rogers said McCain will not come back for a vote to change civil rights law to make it easier for workers to sue for pay discrimination long after the initial act of alleged discrimination. Sens. Obama and Clinton are expected to return for the vote. <5>

2008: McCain Said He Was More Concerned With “Clogging” The Courts Than Protecting Women’s Rights To Sue Employers In Equal Pay Cases. McCain, who did not return to Washington for the vote, said “I am all in favor of pay equity for women, but this kind of legislation, as is typical of what's being proposed by my friends on the other side of the aisle, opens us up to lawsuits for all kinds of problems. This is government playing a much, much greater role in the business of a private enterprise system.” According to an Editorial in the Grand Rapid Press, “John McCain let it be known that he opposed the Ledbetter legislation because it "opens us up to lawsuits for all kinds of problems." This is a little like saying we shouldn't have any laws because they only clog up the courts. <6><7>

2008: Defending His Vote Against Pay Discrimination, McCain Said Women Need More “Education And Training.” McCain also said, “They need the education and training, particularly since more and more women are heads of their households, as much or more than anybody else. And it's hard for them to leave their families when they don't have somebody to take care of them. It's a vicious cycle that's affecting women, particularly in a part of the country like this, where mining is the mainstay; traditionally, women have not gone into that line of work, to say the least.” <8>

2006: McCain Voted Twice Against Equal Pay For Women. Twice, McCain voted to deny equal pay rights for millions of women in America, as part of a supposed overhaul of minimum wage laws that would have actually removed existing protections for many workers. <9><10>

2002: McCain Didn’t Think Female Farmers Deserved “Socially Disadvantaged” Status. McCain mocked, “There are interesting things in here. There is one, No. 110: Adds ‘gender’ to the list of socially disadvantaged groups covered by section 2501, the outreach program for socially disadvantaged farmers.” <11>

2000: McCain Voted Against Allowing Victims Of Wage Discrimination To Claim Punitive And Compensatory Damages. McCain voted against an amendment to allow workers who won their wage discrimination claims in court to collect punitive and compensatory damages in addition to back wages. (CQ) <12>

1998: McCain Favored Ending Gender-Based Set-Aside Programs for Women-Owned Businesses, But Voted Against Amendment That Would Have Eliminated Them. “Mr. President, I'm not a supporter of race-based or gender-based set-aside programs. This amendment goes too far. It eliminates a program that, while seriously flawed in its current focus, was designed to provide opportunities for historically disadvantaged businesses to compete for Federal highway construction dollars. . . . We must recognize that poverty and economic disadvantage do not confine themselves within a certain race, gender, or ethnic group. . . . I suggest we target the root of the problem--lack of economic opportunity, not race, gender, ethnicity, and the like. . . . A needy American is a needy American, no matter their race, creed, color, or gender.” <13>

1990: McCain Twice Voted Against Legislation Overturning Supreme Court Rulings Limiting The Rights Of Persons Alleging Discrimination By Their Employers. Adoption of the conference report and the override of President Bush’s veto on the bill which overturns a number of recent Supreme Court cases limiting the rights of persons alleging discrimination by employers; and authorizes compensatory and punitive damages in discrimination case under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. <14><15>

1990: McCain Voted To Lessen The Burden Of Proof For Employers In Cases Where Practices Are Technically Fair But May Still Discriminate Against Women. McCain voted for motion to recommit to the conference committee the bill, with instructions to report it back to the Senate with provisions lessening the burden of proof for employers defending practices that are fair in form but have the effect of discriminating against women and minorities. (CQ)<16>


http://www.mccainpedia.org/index.php/Equal_Pay
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. K & R
Good arguments above. Let us know her response Heather... enquiring minds want to know what she says to real information.
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