UPDATE ON: DU I NEED YOUR HELP post

[Heather MC]

REF: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7122016&mesg_id=7122016

Ok so I sent the Republican a letter
stating the Article only talked in Averages and not specific comparisons of work and work load.
I also sent her McCain's Voting Record for Woman's Issues.

So she sent this to me:
*******************************************
Heather,

I'm not going to spend my time arguing points with you. I am very much pro McCain/Palin and no matter what you're shown, no matter what facts are put before you...you only see it one way. So be it.

I do feel very strongly that the worst thing we could do is pull our troops out of Iraq. Our presence in the middle east is what keeps Iran and terrorists from taking total control. To pull out will be the worst thing we could do.

I googled and found this which I totally agree with:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/22/cheney/index.html

I could vote for a number of black people...Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, to name two of them. I would never vote for Obama because I detest his policies and I think he is simply "made up." If you ever hear him speak without a teleprompter, he suddenly becomes stumbling and bumbling. I listened to him this morning and within about 4 sentences he said "ah" or "uhm" 15 times. It drove me nuts. I couldn't even hear when he was saying, I could only hear his "ahs" and "uhms".

What is so obvious to me is that you're not singing the praises and accomplishments and plans of Obama...but instead you're trying to smear.

I suggest that you not believe all you read and hear because it simply isn't true. I've shown you that and yet...you won't see.

But that's enough of that.
****************************************************


Ok DU I don't get it, how is sending her McCain's Voting Record Smearing McCain?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

1. Well at least she can find it in her heart to vote for "a number of black people"

I wouldn't bother. She doesn't want to hear the facts and cites and article from 2006.

[TomInTib]

2. Because Truth is bad, bad, and just gets in the way of ideology.

Get it?

[AllieB]

3. Why bother? She's a dumbass.

If she's not willing to look at facts critically, she has obviously drunk the Kool Aid.

[Overseas]

11. That's what I thought. Why are you messing with this fool? //nt

[Heather MC]

13. I don't live around any Republicans that I know, well none that are passionate about McCain

So I asked her how could she back a man with such horrible record for woman's issues
and Palin's issues dealing with Rape and Killing animals

She never responded about those things
and I know she loves Animals
when she lived near me she had 4 dogs, 5 cats, and she wanted horses

[Heather MC]

12. It's weird I never argued with her

I know she has sons will cus her out to her face, so I have always made it appoint to be extra respectful to her, just so she knows what it looks like

but I am just going to leave her be

[elehhhhna]

4. Just send her a note that says "You're a fuckwit! Do not contact me again."

seriously

[vanderBeth]

"Our presence in the middle east is what keeps Iran and terrorists from taking total control."

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Left Is Write]

5. Sounds like she's got a little projection going on there.

She's the one smearing and refusing to see the facts.

[Heather MC]

21. She sent me this about Palin's Special Needs Record

Heather, again your facts are totally wrong as follows:

“Newest Palin Smear: She Cut Special Needs Budget”
Happyfeet SarahW linked this in the previous thread, but we may as well put it out here in the bright light of day. From The Weekly Standard:


I just watched CNN’s Soledad O’Brien sandbag former White House Communications Director Nicole Wallace by asking her how Sarah Palin can claim to be a defender of special needs children when she cut the budget for that Alaska office by 62 percent. Wallace wasn’t familiar with the charge — which isn’t surprising, since it’s only being made on DailyKos and another liberal site. (Tip for Ms. O’Brien: DailyKos is not a reliable news site.)

This charge is based on looking at the budget for Alaska’s Special Education Service Agency for 2007-2009. In fact, the December 2006 budget document that they cite would have been prepared by the outgoing administration — that of Republican Frank Murkowski, whom Palin defeated.

What’s gone unmentioned is that the Palin signed into law a dramatic reform of the state’s education financing system that equalizes aid to rural and urban districts, while significantly increasing funding for special needs students. From the publication Education Week:

Gov. Sarah Palin and state lawmakers have gone ahead with an overhaul of Alaska’s school funding system that supporters predict will provide much-needed financial help to rural schools and those serving students with disabilities.

The plan, enacted in the recently concluded session of the legislature, is based on recommendations issued by a legislative task force last year. It will phase in a greater flow of money to districts outside of Anchorage, Alaska’s largest city, over the next five years.

Advocates for rural and remote schools have lobbied for years for more funding, in particular noting the higher fuel, transportation, and other costs associated with providing education in communities scattered across the vast state.

A second part of the measure raises spending for students with special needs to $73,840 in fiscal 2011, from the current $26,900 per student in fiscal 2008, according to the Alaska Department of Education and Early Development (emphasis added).

So the Netroots and CNN allege that Palin cut special needs funding by 62 percent, by crediting her with the budget proposed by a political opponent. And the truth is that rather than a 62 percent cut, she’s actually increasing special needs funding by 175 percent.

It’s no wonder a majority of Americans think the media is trying to hurt Palin.

Of course, as we’re now being told, facts don’t really matter. It is perfectly okay to lie and lie until lies become perception, because in the end, the greater good is what’s most important.

And the greater good has nothing to do with increasing special needs funding by 175%: it has to do with getting Democrats into power. And then, you know — we can take it from there…

****

[arKansasJHawk]

6. Unfortunately,

This is a habit some people fall into. Facts=smears. It generally occurs among irrational thinkers. It's a symptom of the "we make our own reality" mind-set. No use arguing, or even talking to in most cases, these people.

[Heather MC]

9. I just told her to Be Well, and be blessed

[DesertRat]

14. That's really all you could do.

"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." Stephen Colbert

[Madam Mossfern]

7. Truth is a new kind of

sandwich spread?
You know, like "Give me a bagel with a schmear of truth." (need yiddish accent here)

[medicswife]

8. Boy, those are the kind of people that just don't get it.

She probably thinks that 100% of us military families are for McCain too. I wish she could see the number of Obama bumper stickers and shirts that you see here on post.

Too bad. :( My husband's grandparents are the same way though.

[LiberalAndProud]

10. Hopeless.

When I listen to McCain, all I can hear is mumble, mumble, mumble. It's just a matter of perspective.

Some can be moved and some can't. She can't.

So let me tell you about one good thing that happened today.

A good ol' boy from Nebraska transplanted to South Dakota, perfectly comfortable using the 'n word', was force-fed CSpan for one week. When he got back to South Dakota, he was saying "We have GOT to elect Obama." As an ex-felon, he thought he wasn't eligible to vote in South Dakota. I told him that it is my understanding that once all conditions of probation have been met, he indeed can vote.

One more for Obama. It won't matter in the EV count in the end, but it still made me feel good.

[Heather MC]

16. Woo HOOOO!!!

[RoadRage]

15. Just move on..

One of my closest friends & I have spent at least 2 hours today emailing back and forth on McCain / Palin. She swears by them.. i detest them. I spent an hour researching an entire email rebuking all of her claims, and she said that she didn't believe anything I sent (including the tax grid showing Obama giving tax cuts to the middle class) because it comes from the "liberal media".

Well- I have nothing else to say, do I? Any "fact" can be dismissed if you want to blow off the source.. so I just agree to disagree with her... we'll cancel each others votes out and call it a day!

Focus on the people in the middle who are willing to listen to reason - phone bank.. go door-to-door.. give money to help fund those that want to do that, etc. :)

And take your friend out for a beer or a glass of wine.. and talk about something else. Friendship isn't worth the price of politics.. at the end of the day everyone wants what is best for their country and their families - we just have drastically different ideas on how to reach that goal!

[Heather MC]

19. She just sent me this, she seems angry now

I wrote this:
About Iraq, Bush is following the exact plan Obama laid out. He is currently withdrawing troops. And re-directing some to Afganistan. Also we actually have no legal standing to be in Irag with Combat troops past 2011, so unless that changes according to the rules of war laid out by the UN we have to leave.

This was her response:
Goodness, are you trying to say that Bush is now following exactly what Obama laid out? He has always wanted to withdraw troops when possible. ANY Commander in Chief would shuffle troops where needed. That's a no-brainer

[Overseas]

20. If she still believes in a war that the Bush gang admitted was unnecessary and

started on the basis of intelligence they have acknowledged was false, you've lost her to the Kool Aid brigade.

Guess she has tons of money and will do okay in this Republican economic meltdown.

Maybe she has lots of stock in Halliburton or Exxon.

[abumbyanyothername]

23. Really Heather

Many have advised this. Just let this one go. There is another more open minded person who desperately wants to hear what you are saying.

This one . . .

I guess I haven't posted this in a couple of days, so I can repeat it today. When two people are discussing politics, locked in a disagreement, what is going on is a battle of egos.

The ego absolutely needs conflict in order to survive -- conflict is ego food. If the ego is not currently experiencing conflict, it will create. In the absence of conflict the ego, the separateness of self, tends to dissolve.

You, to some extent, are as guilty as her of feeding your ego by continuing this conflict. Let her have the last word. If she brings up politics, quietly and politely state, "I disagree" and, if possible, nothing more.

Once the egos have died down a little and retreated, perhaps you can gently inject some political issues into conversation. But even there I would be careful and watchful for the re-emergence of the ego clash.

Among other things, these clashes tend to fuel doubt and fear about Obama's impending victory and I think we just need to keep that meme going (I know others disagree, and think we won't work hard unless scared to death at every breath).

[Heather MC]

25. I have let it go I promise, I am not a must have the last word kind of person

This conversation has no good end. She was responding to an email I sent earlier in the day.
before this conversation got going

but trust me she is free to be...

[hamsterjill]

17. With "friends" like her, who needs enemies?

Just my two cents worth on this discussion:

I know some people like this who are going to vote for McShame no matter what. It won't matter whether or not McShame may run the country into the ground. It won't matter whether or not Palin is some freak with no experience.

All that matters to people like them is that their candidates are pro-life. They've been indoctrinated with the purpose of overturning Roe v. Wade for so long and so much that they cannot process any other argument. Believe me - NOTHING else matters to them. And even if your person hasn't articulated anything on Roe v Wade, I'm still betting she's one like those I describe here.

And NONE of them...not one single one of them...have any idea what they are going to do should Roe v. Wade be overturned. They haven't been told to think beyond that. And they can no longer think on their own.

These people are lost causes. They cannot be persuaded by anything. Do yourself a favor and forget this person.

[mscuedawg]

18. I ran into the same kind of thing and got the following great advice from some DU'ers...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7117559&mesg_id=7117559

[cynatnite]

22. Send her McCain's voting record on the military and vets...

He voted against body armor and against vets time and time again.

Maybe if she sees a growing list of voting against not just women, but also vets and the military it might give her pause.

That's the only thing I can think of that might possible at least get her to stop and think. With McCain being a former POW and a vet you'd think he would support vets and the troops, but he doesn't. His voting record is just the opposite.

This here is just a small portion...

http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/articleid/9559

[Left Is Write]

24. I think Heather's friend is a lost cause.

Heather already sent her some facts and the friend turned around and accused Heather of "smearing" and "refusing to see."

If it were me, I'd rather expend my energy talking to someone willing to listen, not someone who thinks presenting her own candidate's voting record to her is "smearing."

[cynatnite]

26. You're probably right...

It just seems to me that he spews he's a POW enough that it's more worthwhile to show his lack of support for the troops and vets. You're probably right, though.