With women behind Obama 110% now we're 'divided' by white dems who won't vote black - ugh!!!

[LynneSin]

This article is total total bullshit. We left that convention totally united behind Barack Obama and destroy the notion that there was some group of democrats out there trying to spoil the election and suggesting that it was ok to vote for McCain.

Now that mess is cleared up, the AP comes out with an article claiming that a large majority of white democrats who won't vote for Barack because he's black. That is total BULLSHIT. I mean the democratic party has been the party pushing for civil rights for decades now so why suddenly this group who won't vote for Obama because of skin color.

My guess is the press and the notoriously right-wing leaning AP want to find a new group to help divide the party by making claims that there are racists in our party and enough that could make the difference in electing Obama. I call BULLSHIT!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-AP-Yahoo-Poll-Obama-Race.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

More than a third of all white Democrats and independents -- voters Obama can't win the White House without -- agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey, and they are significantly less likely to vote for Obama than those who don't have such views.

Such numbers are a harsh dose of reality in a campaign for the history books. Obama, the first black candidate with a serious shot at the presidency, accepted the Democratic nomination on the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s ''I Have a Dream'' speech, a seminal moment for a nation that enshrined slavery in its Constitution.

''There are a lot fewer bigots than there were 50 years ago, but that doesn't mean there's only a few bigots,'' said Stanford political scientist Paul Sniderman who helped analyze the exhaustive survey.

[NOLALady]

1. Right, it's bullshit.

As our nominee said,

They must think we're stupid.

[elocs]

2. So is the Democratic Party devoid of any bigotry and racism?

Nobody can say exactly how many or how few bigots there are in our party since it is politically incorrect for any Democrat to claim they will not vote for Obama because of his race. What I ponder is why there are those who usually support core Democratic values and often vote for Democrats just cannot bring themselves to support Obama even though they agree with his stances.

Yes, race is the 800 pound gorilla in the room and some believe that the best way to deal with that is to pretend that the gorilla is not there. It's there.

[yardwork]

5. True, but most of the racist Democrats vote Republican in national races.

Many southerners are nominally Democrats as this region was historically Democratic. Remember, Lincoln was the Republican who defeated the south in the Civil War. However, these southern Democrats - Dixiecrats - are not and have never been liberal or progressive in any sense of the word.

After the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, the Republicans implemented their "southern strategy" which was to make inroads in the south by positioning the Republican Party as the party of conservative social values. This appealed greatly to racists in the south and many of them made the switch from Democrat to Republican. Jesse Helms is one of the most famous examples. Other southerners remain registered Democrats and often vote Democratic in local and state races, but consistently vote Republican for senatorial and presidential tickets.

I can't speak for other parts of the country, but I doubt that Obama will lose many votes in the south due to his ethnicity. Most of the southern racists - no matter what their party affiliation - would not have voted for any Democratic nominee for president.

[flamingdem]

9. People can and will change. Sometimes it just takes a moment and prejudices

drop away... because so many other issues really matter.

[elocs]

13. Perhaps this will be the year when more people can and will change.

This election will be a good indication if this country has really turned the corner as far as race is concerned.

[seabeyond]

27. there were stupid dems that didnt vote kerry cause they didnt like something about him

had nothing to do with color. if it is hillary, there would be stupid dems that wouldnt vote for her cause female

that is all

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. I learned the hard way during the primary that Democrats are racists, too.

The scary part is that many of them do not believe they are. At least with the Repukes, they let you know straight up what they think; but the Democrats sanctimoniously and falsely believe that they are members of the party of racial reconciliation and tolerance and therefore cannot be racist themselves or harbor racist beliefs... and that is their biggest failing.

[SharonAnn]

42. Yes, I've had some here tell me they won't vote for a n****r. When the next one

tells me that, I'm going to tell him/her that their ilk joined the Republican Party years ago. What's taking them so long?

i was shocked at first, but now realize that a certasin group here in TN just won't be voting for Obama even though he's the candidate they need.

What a shame.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

43. Hats off to you. You were a Hillary supporter and you are a true representation of what

the Democratic party should be. :bounce:

[Number23]

44. Exactly

I learned the hard way during the primary that Democrats are racists, too.

Most black folks knew long before then. And the attempts on this board to call out and squash any and all discussion of race is also very telling. Sad and fairly surprising too.

As poster Elocs said, race is the 800 pound elephant in the room. Just 'cause you don't talk about it doesn't mean that it's not there.

[corkhead]

3. more republicon black ops. This poll is meant to influence public opinion, not reflect it.

the underlying message of this poll is that it is ok to be racist, because all your white Democratic friends are.

[flamingdem]

8. It's meant to focus people on skin color and difference other than "We're all in this together"

That is a quote from O's speech in NM

[gulliver]

4. This surprises who?

Obama's got his job cut out for him. If America weren't laying in the gutter drunk with its teeth knocked out thanks to Bush, Obama would have no prayer. Now he has one. If he wins, better days. If he loses, no floor on how far we could go downhill.

[texastoast]

6. asshats

he's black AND white. fucking racist pigs who think this way. shallow shallow people. total embarrassments.

[hasssan1]

7. It's Called" FEAR TACTICS FROM NAZI-GOP PARTY MACHINE"

[InvisibleTouch]

10. I saw that article. How utterly stupid.

Not saying I don't think there's truth to it, mind you. There surely is. And I can't believe how stupid people are. Or maybe I can. A lot of overt prejudice has "gone underground," in that it's no longer "socially acceptable" to be a biggot in public - but that doesn't mean some people don't still harbor those private idiocies. Quite a lot of people I know would never be rude or discriminatory to a black person directly, but in the privacy of their own homes they will make the most ignorant remarks. Makes me angry!

[featherman]

11. The thesis of the article "without which Obama can't win" is unsound mathematically

With 13% AA and about 13% Hispanic plus 2-3% Native American/Asian/Pacific Islander and other in the voting population at large, the majority of these voters are Democrat so extrapolate those percentages by some factor as membership in the Democratic Party. It's possible then that "white Democrats" make up only about 60% of the party. I suspect that the vast majority of these stipulated "racist white Democrats" are concentrated in the old Confederacy and Appalachia where we do not expect to win electorally anyway.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time and research to get exact proportions but you get the general idea.

Racist Dems likely make up a significantly lower proportion of voters in those states that we need electorally for the AP thesis to have much impact. As long as we get our usual 88% of Dems, it doesn't matter much why that 12% isn't voting for Obama.

88% of Dems + 8% of Republicans plus a split or near split of Inds = an easy win. It's all about getting our voters out and gaining an even split with Inds.

[EV_Ares]

12. oh oh, you are going to get crucified by some because this has been posted several

times. I made that mistake because in my search it never came up.

However, besides all of that, I posted it because it pissed me off knowing there are still that many bigots around and especially people calling themselves dems. Interesting too what they said about Hillary supporters.

It is important and I know Obama recognizes it and is working hard to make sure he gets all the supporters he can registered and they vote. That is the only way you can overcome something like this. I think it is something that will fade with future generations.

[jonnyblitz]

14. I always find it amusing when a white person is one of the first

to loudly deny there is any racism going on when it is pointed out. I suppose if a similar poll showed a great mamy DEMS were homophobic you and other straight folk would be the first screeching your denials over that one, too.

I have met many an IGNORANT fucking DEM in my day, lots of them here at DU, so this poll does NOT surprise me.

[Sam Ervin jret]

17. I have a monitor that shows color but yours must be magic.

[seabeyond]

28. hey... they just did it with hillary supporters. then woman as a whole. then white women. ALL

BULLSHIT

now they are starting here.

no one on du denies racism.... we talk about it all the time. but that is not what this is about. you wwant to buy into the bullshit

all yours to do

[Number23]

45. You betta PREACH, jonnyblitz!

I have met many an IGNORANT fucking DEM in my day, lots of them here at DU, so this poll does NOT surprise me.

The sentiment you've expressed is heartbreaking, but I applaud and wholeheartedly concur with your truth.

:applause: :thumbsup: :applause:

[Tyler Generation]

15. Why is people who are bi-racial are always "black"

I mean he's mother's white, so why isn't he "white"? Focusing on race is stupid either way, but I've always found this extra ridiculous.

[4lbs]

18. Tyler, read about the "one-drop rule"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

[EV_Ares]

20. Yeah Tyler, I have noticed that too and have a friend at work who is bi-racial and

that is the way it has always been said. However, I think that along with racial attitudes is changing with the younger generation, thank god.

[DefenseLawyer]

16. "This article is total bullshit"

Thanks for posting more total bullshit. What would we do without you?

[EV_Ares]

19. Being a defense lawyer, don't you defend her right to make a post out of the NY Times on

a public board even if it is something you don't agree with. It may not be a an article we like but it is reality and something to think about as I have even heard Obama's campaign manager acknowledge this problem and they are well aware of it. There is nothing you can do about people like this and it appears there is a bigger percentage among Hillary's supporters unfortunately but you need to be aware of it and as Obama's guy said, you just make sure you get everyone registered and to the polls who supports you and they are working very hard on it.

Other than that it is bs just to attack someone for exercising their right and freedom to post.

[DefenseLawyer]

24. I have said many times

If it is someone's intent bring something negative to our attention, it shouldn't be necessary to cut and paste a huge portion of the "total bullshit" article into his or her post. A summary and a link would suffice. When someone chooses to cut and paste like that, I get the impression that their real intent was to make sure that the "total bullshit" is promulgated, whether that is in fact their intention or not.

[EV_Ares]

25. Yeah, & I understand that & a good point. Maybe a better way to say it to the fellow DUer if that

was your point. I agree & don't like negative articles but I do like to know what I am up against and I think this was no surprise to probably you and me but the poll did have some other facts I was not aware of. I really am disappointed that this bigotry exists to this extent but I think it will change with the future generations.

Anyway, I think Obama will overcome this and is planning on overcoming it. Saw Willie Brown, former mayor of SF and I know he along with many others are doing everything they can to coordinate registration drives all over the country. That is all you can do to overcome these bigots.

Thanks for the reply and this was not an attack on you just my point about dialog between all of us which seems more beneficial as as I have got attacked for no good reason other than someone didn't like my post and of which it doesn't bother me because you cannot let your feelings get hurt on these boards or you better stay off.

[Peacetrain]

21. Total bs..

[Frumious B]

22. I don't care what the demographic breakdown is.

I just care that more people go to the polls in states totaling 270 EVs or more and vote for Barack Obama than go to vote for John McCain. I don't care what their age is, what they have between their legs or what color their skin is. Frankly, if all of the rich people, religious conservatives and bigots go to the polls for McCain and everybody else goes to the polls for Obama then Obama will do just fine.

[DrPresident]

49. How about that?

that is SO TRUE! LOL I like how you put that, that's right on.

[mccain_pwned]

23. YEP BS! It was BS when DU abhorently characterized Hillary Supporters as Racist, & this is BS too

The Democratic Party is not comprised of racists, and we will be voting for Barack united.

MCCAIN = PWNED!!!!

--PEACE!!!!

[seabeyond]

26. YES..... EXACTLY. thanks for NOT playing their game. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

29. Who is Paul Sniderman?

LOL!! I realized that this survey was in part analyzed by Paul Sniderman. Sniderman is a conservative political scientist who always writes about race and attitudes against black. More media propaganda.

Understand that the political scientist who helped with this survey is Paul Sniderman who is well known in the discipline for his obsession with race. He has written countless articles on how whites hate blacks...and even more...how blacks hate blacks!! His work is used by many conservative think tanks to justify the dismantling of the safety net and programs to help poor or low-income working people. His work was also seminal in providing the case for welfare reform. However, he has also done some good work covering the impact of the media on race and race relations. He demonstrates how depictions of blacks in the media is widely to blame for the attitudes that the majority of Americans--both blacks and whites and in between--have against blacks as a whole.

It sad but very true. This is all about attempting to divide the Democratic party because the PUMA and the HRC-thing didn't work, nor did the Palin charade. So, they're back to race-baiting.

What we do about this is get out and encourage the younger voters to get involved. If we can build a coalition of progressive whites who DO support Obama, blacks, Hispanics, Asians (yes, most do support Obama), new registrants, etc., then we overcome the bigot vote. Only by a huge turnout from these groups can we overcome the bigotry that exists.

I still believe that the media obsession with race during this entire election season is really about depressing the vote.

Why the M$M cannot let the race thing go is so obvious to me. I believe that they ARE trying to demoralize voters. And yes, there ARE some blacks who are saying to me that they are not going to vote because Obama is going to lose anyway, so what's the point? I've heard this sentiment quite a bit.

I guess we need to work a little harder to convince people that they still have to work hard even if they feel that Obama will lose "anyway". I'd rather work hard and be able to say that I worked hard in spite of, than regret that I couldn't do more because I felt depressed by racist white people.

[BlackmanX]

31. It's possible

Alot of Hillary voters were so called conservative democrats in the Appalacians among other places. The tendency here is to assume that just because you are a democrat that you are liberal and harbor no racial bias. Not so there are alot of so called democrats in every state that should be supporting Obama but don't because of race. the Bradley effect is still real if you look in places like New Hampshire during the primaries Obama had close to a double digit lead going in but ended up losing there and this was a fairly evenly split state. Realistically this election shouldn't be close and if you go to just about any electoral projection map now you'll see that blue states are weaker than they were 4 years ago even though mcsame is clearly out of touch and incompetent while Obama is smarter and has more charisma. I can't help but to think that if Kerry were running this time it wouldn't even be this close. Racism is real, people no matter how much we would all like to believe it isn't. Still we should use this fact as motivation to work harder for Obama.

[EV_Ares]

33. You are right on, you have the dixie-crats, those conservative dems that would be considered

republican in some areas. I don't think you could ever really count them as dems as they vote on republican issues a lot anyway. Also, as you mentioned the Bradley Effect.

There is only one way to counteract these people and that is registration and voting which is what Obama has several groups out working hard on.

Its a shame this still exists as much as it does but the reality is that it does.

[Sensitivity]

32. This is a beautifully UNINFORMED post. What a beautiful world.

[LooseWilly]

34. Not total bullshit...

I mean, it's a fucked up truth, but it's not total bullshit.
The notion that "More than a third of all white Democrats and independents -- voters Obama can't win the White House without -- agreed with at least one negative adjective about blacks, according to the survey" means that that third won't vote for Obama does not necessarily follow. As much as one half of that third will probably not realize consciously enough that they have been infected with bigotry to not vote for Obama. Or maybe some of them agreed with some negative adjective because they live in a "black city", like Oakland for instance, and have been exposed to black folk who, as I like to put it, "keep the stereotypes alive".
I know I live in Oakland and I've met plenty of black folk happy to keep the stereotypes alive. And when I drive through china town I see plenty of asians happy to keep the "Chinese Driver" stereotypes alive.
And I'm voting for Obama. Just like I did in the primary.
Just because there are idiotically framed articles like this doesn't mean you have to lose your shit LynneSin. And just because there ARE still bigots out there in both parties, you don't need to lose your shit denying it. And fellow DUers don't need to lose their shit insisting that it's a right wing media plot... I mean, there might be a little something of that to it... but mostly it's a journalist who used a little "purple prose" license to "frame" an article about how bigotry still exists in the Democratic party.

Does this fact really surprise anyone? Do any of you really think the PUMAs really think Palin's vagina is more important than HRC's political views?
Hell, until Iowa, I didn't think there were enough Democrats that would take the gamble on a black man either. I'm proud that I wasn't the only one in the country to take the gamble. Don't get your undergarments in a twist over this shit people... it's just the media trying to get a handle on what's really up these days...

[Number23]

46. Great post, willy

And just because there ARE still bigots out there in both parties, you don't need to lose your shit denying it. And fellow DUers don't need to lose their shit insisting that it's a right wing media plot... I mean, there might be a little something of that to it... but mostly it's a journalist who used a little "purple prose" license to "frame" an article about how bigotry still exists in the Democratic party.

Very well said....

[chyjo]

35. Written by Ron Fournier

A fervent Republican partisan

[sampsonblk]

36. In all fairness, Lynn, I think you are wrong

My view has long been that white supremacy would be a factor in this race. There is no other reason I can imagine why the race would be this close.

You understand very well what poor position the GOP is in. When this election season started, they were just plain desperate. They do not have an equal shot at this election.

But suddenly, we are locked in a tight race (for now). How many bigots does it take to make a cakewalk into a tight race? A very small percentage.

I can't think of any other reason for the race to be so close, and neither can the top pollsters.

[LynneSin]

37. I don't doubt there are bigots out there that will not elect Obama because of skin color

To be honest, it's one of the reasons that Lynn Swann took such a beating in his attempts to unseat Dem Gov. Ed Rendell. There are people out there that just won't vote for a minority. But I highly doubt these are people that are pure democrats. Perhaps somewhere along the line they voted for a democrat but I would like to see the real voting records of those people in this survey that are now supposedly dividing up the democrats.

It's bullshit - the vast majority of people who wont' vote for Obama because of skin probably weren't going to vote for him anyways.

[Number23]

47. What is a pure democrat?

But I highly doubt these are people that are pure democrats.

And why do you think that being a "pure Democrat" and holding racial biases are mutually exclusive?

[sampsonblk]

56. This is one of the few times I have disagreed with you

None of this stuff is over "skin color." Every time we boil it down to that, it causes confusion.

This is an age-old problem. Its not about what anyone looks like. Its far deeper than that.

Lynn Swann has chosen to play for the other team, like Michael Steele. That's a whole different ball game.

[Honeycombe8]

38. That survey is seriously flawed, if I understand it. They asked....

if a person thinks "all" Af. Americans are (and they inserted a negative trait, like lazy).

Then later in the survey they ask if the person is going to vote for Obama?

That is a sloppy, sloppy survey.

First, a person can have some negative beliefs about another race/ethnicity/gender, and STILL be willing to vote for an individual of that race/ethnicity/gender. It is illogical to connect the two, unless the surveyor has some sound evidence they are directly connected.

Second, most people, if they are being honest with themselves, hold SOME negative view about SOME class of people other than their own. So...does it mean that many in that survey just weren't being honest when they claimed NOT to hold ANY negative view toward another race/ethnicity/gender? For example, you could ask Af. Americans if they hold, generally, SOME negative view about whites. I would guess you'd find a decent percentage who would admit to that. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the Republicans in that group won't vote for McCain, does it?

They are leaving out the most important thing in the survey: the individuals. Obama is more than just an Af. American man. And McCain is more than just an elderly white man. They are both individuals with life stories, experiences, gifts and talents. People can, and will, vote for them for many reasons other than their basic genetic code.

As an aside, I will state that I am a middle aged woman (although I look MUCH younger! :eyes: ) whose best friend is black (she doesn't like to be called Af. American). I am from the deep south and have been generally sympathetic to the black plight in our country since I was a child. Remarkable, considering where I was raised. I don't know why I paid attention to this problem in our society. But I did. Still....I will admit that there is no halo over my head, and that I probably have biases about blacks and other races, as well as biases about different age groups, political parties, gender, and everything else you can think of.

The difference is...I try to be aware of my biases and not let it interfere with judging individuals for who they are. You know...do unto others, etc. And some things I think...I think those things because of statistics, yet others would say I'm being bigoted.

My point is....I just don't see how you can measure bigotry. And I don't think it's necessarily directly related to how a person votes. It is in some cases. I'm sure it's not in some cases.

Finally....as my more racially insensitive friends and family like to say, when they consider that Obama may win....well, he IS half white.

[madmom]

39. WOW..you mean Obama is black..shit why didn't somebody tell me!!!

[codjh9]

40. I doubt that it's very many white *Democrats* who won't vote for Obama...

[EffieBlack]

41. How does "agreeing with one negative adjective" mean that they

won't vote for Obama? I'm sure there are plenty of white folks who have negative things to say about black people plan to vote for Obama.

Lots of black people who would agree with negative adjectives about white people still vote for white candidates.

Hell, I know plenty of black people who would agree with a negative adjective about other blacks. That does not translate into a refusal to vote for someone.

The conclusions drawn by this article are just plain stupid.

[mzmolly]

48. .... and independents. Where are the polls questioning Republican sexists who wont vote for a woman?

:eyes:

[Rocknrule]

50. Fred Phelps is a Democrat

although I can't for the life of me figure out why - the GOP is the party that bursts at the seams with hatred for homosexuals

[paregdem]

51. Sick-Sick-Sick

I really must stop reading that kind of shit, it just makes me feel sick to my stomach. I posted a 'Slide' photo show on my AOL profile and the music I selected to play during the slideshow is Sam Cooke's "A Change Is Gonna Come." YES IT WILL!!! Anyone who views my profile knows where I firmly stand.
An extremely proud Obama supporter in Pennsylvania (female/dem/white/50) :patriot:

[TheKentuckian]

52. The logic in the article is a stretch

people have biases that don't control behavior or actions, they may influence them but not control.

I think it would be fairly sanctimonious for anyone to even pretend they hold zero biases. It seems to me the better, more "evolved" people are good at moving beyond these mental hiccups and learning from the experience each time.

[FloridaGrl]

53. Yawn...

we could see the race card coming from their little stunt at Obama's FL rally. Yes there are folks who will not get over their racial bias but with the country in such a turmoil I think more republicans will not vote with their party than democrats not voting with theirs.

[dailykoff]

54. Who needs to play the race card when the press will do it for you?

All lies all the time, that's our beloved American media.

[dailykoff]

55. Up next: the Bradley effect!

Which, I've concluded, is bullshit. The pukes stole that one too.

[sampsonblk]

57. Am I to understand that you think this isn't true?

I have seen it up close. Its time for us to accept that there are a small number of really screwed up people who vote in our elections.

[dailykoff]

58. Correct. It's a disgusting push poll and the NY Times is a neocon propaganda organ.

I wouldn't trust them to get the weather right if you want to know.

[Top Cat]

59. If we can turn out more AA and hold on to the woman

We can win this the hispanic votrs will put us over the top

[Imagevision]

60. It's BS. and would never bother to respond to a hypothetical again...

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

61. They fail to discuss the GOP responses in the study - which are available

framing the article on the minority of Dems who hold such an opinion, rather than the larger number of racist Repubes who, despite disapproving of Bush and disliking their party's nominee, still march in lockstep, due to opposition to a man's skin color

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

62. They fail to discuss the GOP responses in the study - which are available

framing the article on the minority of Dems who hold such an opinion, rather than the larger number of racist Repubes who, despite disapproving of Bush and disliking their party's nominee, still march in lockstep, due to opposition to a man's skin color

[sampsonblk]

63. Bingo!

That's the first thing that jumped out at me.

When are they going to publish the numbers for the GOPers!

[cynatnite]

64. They fucked up on the white women numbers, so they may have done the same here...

I don't buy it this time around.

[Arkana]

65. It's Ron Fournier. This guy wants to be McCain's personal hand puppet.