See/hear for yourself. And stop trashing Clinton.

[Zuiderelle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U08fA93lpEk&feature=user

This is part 3 of The View from this morning. The one in which he says that he admires both candidates.

He's a diplomat. And he's trying to reach the middle, without insulting them. Some people think that you can tell people that they are stupid to vote for someone like McCain. How many people will that reasoning sway?


Edited to add 1 and 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODoSotQmkKA&feature=user
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIiLJIk32_0&feature=user

[Captain Hilts]

1. Correct! Obama does the same thing. It's what politicians do. That's how they get elected. nt

[Zuiderelle]

3. Exactly. I wonder why we haven't see threads criticizing Obama for respecting McCain.

Just silly. And a complete waste of time.

[Captain Hilts]

14. Or using NRA language to talk about gun laws. He wants to be prez and that's what you do. nt

[ieoeja]

49. There have been tons of such threads. n/t

[americanstranger]

107. You haven't seen those threads?

A day doesn't go by when i don't see a thread telling Obama or Biden to 'stop honoring McCain.'

- as

[Zuiderelle]

131. No, I haven't seen one single thread trashing Obama for respecting his opponent.

And if I did, I would object to it. Obama is just as diplomatic and intelligent as Clinton. I fully expect to treat McCain with respect.

[Hawkeye-X]

2. "The Third Way"

and insults us - the true Democrats - not corporate Democrats.

He's no diplomat.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7143338&mesg_id=7143338

[Arugula Latte]

4. Yep -- We've paid the price for the namby-pamby third way, haven't we?

The Republicans took over and cleaned our clocks; now the country is bankrupt and in a downward spiral.

[WeDidIt]

10. The Third Way Lost us Congress in '94

and put the Democratic Party into a DEATH SPIRAL until after we lost the 2004 election. After that, we wised up, put Dean in charge of the DNC and dug ourselves out of the Clinton hole.

We'll finally see daylight after Obama wins and the Clintons will be relegated to teh dustbin of history.

[bunnies]

5. Now show me the clip of Dubya praising Obama.

So we can compare.

[thewiseguy]

6. But he is a diplomat!

[bunnies]

18. Indeed.

Diplomat first, Democrat second. :thumbsup:

[Demi_Babe]

9. you'll never see an ounce of class and dignity come from Bush

[bunnies]

29. Class and dignity?

Is that what you call it? I guess we all have our own interpretations.

[Debi]

23. HA!

:hi:

[bunnies]

25. ;)

I keep asking for that clip but I never get it. :rofl:

:hi:

[blm]

30. It's right next to the many 2004 clips of Bill supporting Kerry on terrorism and Iraq war....oops...

no, he didn't.

Wake up and smell the sabotage of 2008, Dems. Hillary2012 campaign is doing to 2008 what Hillary2008 campaign did to 2004.

[bunnies]

55. Its not going to work this time though.

Game over.

[AtomicKitten]

66. you were right then and you are right now

I truly regret defending the Clintons as vociferously as I did. I got a good look at them this election cycle and am appalled by what I have seen.

You were right all along, blm. I sincerely apologize for taking you to task for telling the truth.

Cheers.

[Cha]

77. Bill Clinton lied about the "popular primary" vote

..that's divisive and unforgivable.

[MarjorieG]

132. Agreed. The don't want party to change leadership, period.

[Captain Hilts]

32. We don't hold ourselves by his shitty standards.

Clinton left office with an approval rating of 70% and GWB will leave with one of 19%.

'Nuff said!

[bunnies]

51. Thats not the point.

The point is that Bill doesnt want to go against John McCain in any remarkable way. As many DUers have posted here... he's a "diplomat" now.

The sense I get from him, watching this interview, is that he doesnt really care who wins. And *that* is incredibly disappointing.

[LisaM]

59. Well we certainly got an entirely different sense from that interview

but as I pointed out in another thread, the Bill Clinton concern brigade got the email this morning.

[bunnies]

65. I guess this is where you start putting me down for being critical of BC.

*sigh* How unexpected. :eyes:

[LisaM]

74. My remark is not directed at you.

I noticed a slew of posts that all originated about the same time today that (at least is the case of the clip from "The View" I saw, which was only part of it) which completely misrepresented what Clinton had to say this morning and essentially accused him of campaigning for McCain. There were many responses to those posts, too. It's hard not to believe that it's orchestrated. Maybe they just all sprang up on their own. Hard to tell. It seems that about every ten days, there is a feeding frenzy on the Clintons (which, as I understand it, is not really allowed under current GD:P rules, as we are supposed to now be respectful of the primary candidates) and it would not surprise me to find out that there is a starting point somewhere.

[bunnies]

82. AFAIK,

people are just irritated that our former president seems so "meh" on our nominee. And AFAIK, Bill Clinton was not a primary candidate. Had he gone on the View and said that Obama was right for our country and gave reasons why, people on DU would be praising him right now.

If you recall, much praise was given to Bill Clinton here after his convention speech.

But his lack of partisanship in an election year is disturbing to many, and I think, rightfully so.

[LisaM]

88. Your concern is noted.

However, while I am supporting Obama and DESPISE McCain with every bone in my body, and despise Sarah Palin even more, if that's possible, it's hard for me to be rousingly enthusiastic about Obama. Luckily, I have a lot of enthusiasm for the Democratic party, and realize our only chance to improve circumstances in the US (and in the world) is to elect Obama and get big majorities in both houses. So I support him. It's the only option. I think I'm not going out on a limb too much to say that any support Obama people would have had for HRC would have been equally tempered. It's the result of such a close primary.

[bunnies]

101. lol. Dont gimme that "concern is noted" crap.

And you're every bit entitled to your opinions as I am. But I'm not talking about you and me (supporters of whomever)... I'm talking about a Big D Democrat. Not exactly the same. And I suspect, that the same Big D thats so focused on being diplomatic... would be far more partisan if someone else were our nominee. And I think its sad.

As for you and me... I'm sure I'd feel the same way as you do if our positions were reversed.

[LisaM]

119. I was trying to say that I don't think you personally started this

But it's getting exceedingly annoying, after all Hillary has done to be united, to keep hearing this. Why should I log on to DU on a Monday morning, months after the primaries are concluded, to see 1) people bashing the Clintons; and 2) utter misrepresentation of what happened on "The View"?

[bunnies]

125. I know what you're saying. But...

I think that for every thing Hillary has done to be united, Bill has done something sow division. In fact, for a long time I've felt like he is an anchor tied to her ankles. I havent seen anyone railing on HRC today, but I havent read through every post in all these threads either. Either way, I'd never deny that animosity towards Hillary exists here, or that there are many DUers who will jump on any chance to rip either Clinton apart. But otoh, there are some people who do have genuine thoughts on the issue, though its hard to tell them apart sometimes, I know.

But with this View thing. For me, (I wont pretend to speak for anyone else) it's not what BC said as it is so much as what he didn't say. He still has a lot of support within the Democratic party, and I'm sure that many people still take his opinion to heart. Which is maybe why its upsetting when he doesnt come out for Obama as much as some of us wish he would. Its really (sort of) a compliment.

Or if he cant bring himself to get behind our nominee (other than in a prepared speech)... maybe he could *not* do any more talk shows until the election is over. Whether accurate or not, he does give the impression of half-hearted support. Sure, he's entitled to feel that way. I just wish he'd hide it better. :hi:

and on edit: I think Hillary has been doing great. No complaints about her at all. :)

[polmaven]

34. We're supposed to base

ourselves on the Bush/Rove way of doing things?

Personally, I find their way of campaigning to be offensive and ignorant. I would rather we don't compare ANY Democrat to that model. I really don't think it does anyone any good to stoop to that level, do you?

[bunnies]

42. Actually... I'd really like to win this election.

And I'd prefer it if Bill Clinton was less "diplomatic" and more "Democratic". It would be nice to have our former President stand up for the next one... rather than worry about pissing his buddy John Mc off. Dont you think?

[polmaven]

53. Read your post!

You want Bill Clinton, and other Democrats to "compare" with Dubya.....Not I!

Democrats will always be better than that. Trashing the opponent is not how the current (p)resident won. Cheating is how he got into the Oval office. Nothing more.

Al Gore and John Kerry won in 2000 and 2004. And they did not stoop to the kind of gutter politics you apparently want Democrats to engage in now to do it!

[bunnies]

61. Asking for support for our Nominee is "gutter politics" ???!?

I never said I wanted him to trash McCain. YOU read my post. sheesh.

[polmaven]

86. Oh, read the post I responded to!

You stated you want to COMPARE Bush campaigning to how Bill Clinton was today. Bush/Rove use GUTTER politics. Democrats do not! Grow up!!!!!

[bunnies]

93. I said I wanted to "compare" the clips.

Not the campaigns. You've got issues.

[LisaM]

7. OMG, this is what the fuss was about? LOL.

It seems to me that there is a concerted effort afoot (here, at DU) to trash Bill today. Because I didn't see anything in that clip that rose to the level of frenzy I've seen in this morning's threads.

Heck, he even said that on foreign policy issues, G.H.W. Bush was "more qualified" than he (Bill) was. It doesn't mean that he thought that GWHB was a better president, ultimately, on those issues.

I think that those who reacted hysterically to this interview really didn't take time to listen to it.

Thanks for posting. From what I've read today, I'd basically have thought that Bill was wearing a McCain-Palin button, waving a rifle, eating moose jerky, and proposing drilling on the White House lawn.

[thewiseguy]

13. He also said that Hillary won the popular vote.

Obviously that clip has not been posted in this thread.

[JuniperLea]

17. So what?

How does that change anything?

[thewiseguy]

Then why did he mention it? Or more importantly lied on national TV?

[JuniperLea]

48. He's a polititian...

We need to stop giving his words power. He's grasping at straws and looking really pathetic, no question. But to get ourselves all wrapped up in yet another Clintonian controversy is a huge waste of time and effort... not to mention the distraction created. And at this point, I'm thinking Bill is working harder for "their" side than ours.

We would do better putting energy into something positive... which is exactly what "they" don't want us to do.

I'm on the "let it go" side, but not in defense of Bill Clinton! I'm sick of the distractions.

I'm going to hide all Clinton threads from now until the election. I've had it.

[karynnj]

92. Three reasons

1) It undercuts the legitimacy of the nomination process. There is NO primary vote - it doesn't make sense. It completely undervalues the caucus states - including some not counted at all because they did not have official counts Thisnk of the chutzpah of that they don't count some states which had perfectly legal valid contests.

2) Even given that that count makes little sense, Obama won unless you give him nothing for Michigan.

3)Mr Clinton himself entered the primaries and ran under the rules that existed - as did EVERY candidate ever. Never have any called out for rule changes mid way in the "game". Until superTuesday there was never any talk of superdelegates giving the nomination to a second place .... but close ... regular delegate winner - even attempting to bash any politician from a HRC state who endorsed Obama. Never has the popular vote aggregate been shown with the delegate count. This is just extremely bad sportsmanship.

[JuniperLea]

108. You miss the point...

This makes no difference to the election. Bill must have early Alzheimer's or something... he is making less and less sense all the time. He and Hillary are caught up in old school political reasoning that makes no sense in this day and age, and comments like this make them appear out of touch. Voters are not as ignorant as we once were, collectively speaking.

He needs a long vacation.

[karynnj]

122. I sincerely doubt that Bill Clinton ha early Alzeihmer's

or that he is out of touch. I also doubt that the "new" politics are that much different I do think that people who loved Clinton, who had a positive opinion of McCain from the 1990s and who are shaky about Obama because he is black, exotic or young , could get the message from a super top Democrat - that either choice is ok.

It is "fine", if he wants to stay practically neutral, but that means he is not on our side (Note it doesn't mean he is against us.) It really makes me mad because this is the third time he has shown tepid support - and Gore, Kerry and Obama are ALL much better men than he will ever be.

[LisaM]

28. I didn't see that statement and would be interested to see the clip

and if it was as mis-represented here as the statements in the clip PelosiFan posted. Considering how unrepresentative, really, the caucus votes were (for example, here in Washington state, the primaries they held a week later not only had twice as many Democratic voters, they were far closer than the caucuses, and would have given Hillary more delegates), I think that if you consider where you actually measured votes, there are probably some paradigms where Hillary might have received more votes. I AM NOT TRYING TO CLAIM HILLARY WON THE PRIMARY. I am saying, though, that our system was completely flawed and the fact that Obama gamed the caucuses better is not necessarily going to translate into a GE win.

[Zuiderelle]

73. He said that she "GOT AHEAD" in the popular vote. He absolutely did not say that she won it.

Everything he said in the interview was correct and I think he was very gracious and intelligent in the way he answered their questions.

I'm amazed by the way people here are trying to spin it. WHY? He supports Obama. Why would anyone here twist what he said in that interview to make it seem like he doesn't? I don't get it at all.


(Oh, and I added the other two parts of the interview to the OP. The quote about getting ahead is in Part 1.)

[joshcryer]

91. This is just irrational Clinton hatred for the hell of it. It's quite common on DU.

And it's very divisive.

[Zuiderelle]

105. Certainly seems that way. Twist a few words, and voila Clinton sucks. Unbelievable.

It's such a Rove thing to do. This place is just out of its collective mind sometimes.

[LisaM]

102. Actually, he didn't say that

I just watched the first clip, and he said she "got ahead" in the popular vote, but I didn't hear where he said she won it.

[polmaven]

56. Today?

It seems to me that there is a concerted effort afoot (here, at DU) to trash Bill today.

There is a concerted effort affor by some DUers to trash both Bill and Hillary Clinton at every opportunity EVERY day. Some here will react hysterically any time the name Clinton is mentioned. They don't need no stinkin' facts!

[Chloroplast]

71. "Some here will react hysterically any time the name Clinton is mentioned."

:rofl: Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle! :rofl:

[polmaven]

104. You are absolutely correct

that I will defend not only the Clintons, but ANY Democrat against invective and attack ANY day. ROFL if you like, but this kind of trash will do neither our candidate not the party any good at all!

[PresidentObama]

8. He said both are qualified, and that you have to decide which you want. He wants Obama.

We want Obama.

The nation wants Obama.

So, President Obama.

Thank god.

Despite the best cherry picking of his statements, we know what Bill said.

[faithfulcitizen]

15. When did he say "I want Obama"? not once.

[Zuiderelle]

22. Yep. And I think it was a GREAT interview.

[budkin]

11. Boy what an endorsement!

[faithfulcitizen]

12. Okay, I watched it... and he's an asshole.

[Demi_Babe]

24. I totally disagree...as a party, we're fortunate to have him on our side

[faithfulcitizen]

46. With friends like Bill, who needs enemies? If he were on OUR side,

he would have said "this country needs Obama" "I support Obama" "this is why people SHOULD support Obama." Take your pick. But he didn't. He was there to promote HIS book. Period. End of story.

[Cha]

136. Bill Clinton's lying again..and you enable that.

Hillary did not win the primary vote as much as Bill Clinton wants it to be so.

[grantcart]

16. I agree with you -- this is how Clinton speaks in a non partisan setting

He put out a very logical reason for Obama winning the election. It should have been stronger but it wasn't as tepid as the other threads seemed to indicate. Now if he is as dispassionate as this on the stump then it would obviously be a big problem.

Given that this is a show that structrues people from both sides as regular hosts it is reasonable to give an objective, rather than emotional case for Obama to win.

Let's not waste more time on this and move on.

[Demi_Babe]

20. exactly

[Captain Hilts]

21. He's not talking to this choir, he's talking to folks that are not yet decided. nt

[faithfulcitizen]

72. Yeah, and his point was they are both good. How is that helpful?

What in the hell did he say that was helpful to Obama? If you are speaking to undecideds, then you make a case. He was there to sell his book. period.

[Demi_Babe]

19. I agree with you...Clinton was being very diplomatic...perfect word

and I understand that...completely and respect it. It actually gains our party votes in my opinion. Clinton did NOT hurt Obama today...he helped the entire party. People really need to get over this shit. Clinton is NOT hurting Obama.

[Captain Hilts]

60. He's not preaching to the liberal Dem choir on DU. He's talking 'sense' to middle of the road folks.

He knows how to do it, that's how he became the ONLY Dem re-elected since whatshisface married to whosawitz...

FDR: I resemble that remark!
ER: As do I! Go 'Bama!

[blm]

138. Baloney - he's pulling the old 'no need to be alarmed about the GOP candidate'

that he pulled throughout Bush's first term and up until 2006.

[sandnsea]

26. Is it also where he's harping about the popular vote

and sexism? It's the combination of the entire interview that has people pissed.

[polmaven]

64. Tell me,

was he asked a QUESTION about the primary votes and one about sexism?

[sandnsea]

75. If he's so goddamn "diplomatic"

I would think he would have said "the primaries are over", because we simply have to win.

[polmaven]

109. What was the QUESTION?

This kind of hate and venom does NOBODY any good. I really hope that it isn't taken out of the anonimity of this board and into the real world. Bill Clinton knowas a little something about winning.

[sandnsea]

115. The Primaries Are Over - is the ANSWER

No matter WHAT the question is.

[Cosmic Charlie]

27. why don't you link to the part where he said Hillary won the Popular Vote??

and Palin is a Victim of insidious sexism.

[Captain Hilts]

31. Palin has been the victim - and beneficiary of sexism - and the popular vote...

was really really tight. It wasn't the blow out a lot of folks want to think it was.

It's smart to look closely at why Clinton was still winning primaries at the end when, normally, the lead candidate gains momentum. It was tight.

[thewiseguy]

35. It was really really tight = Hillary won the popular vote?

Why are you trying so hard to excuse what Bill said today? He had no reason to even go there.

[Debi]

37. Maybe Bill didn't see the part of the convention where his wife took the floor

and claimed Barack Obama to be the Democratic nominee? :shrug:

[thewiseguy]

40. He said that well once the superdelegates went Obama's way, we lost

He made it sound as if the superdelegates took the nomination away from Hillary.

I have no idea why he even went there.

[Debi]

50. b/c he wants to get rid of Super Delegates - and caucuses - to ease Sen. Clinton

into the nomination in 2012. It's always ALL about Bill and what he wants.

[karynnj]

94. True -and ignoring the fact that she went in the odds on favoriet to have the

most superdelegates. They surfaced the idea that teh superdelegates could change the winner, not Obama. Obama's surrogates, Kerry and Daschle, were the ones saying that that would not happen and would not be fair,

[Cosmic Charlie]

39. Obama won by all measures and Bill knows it. Yet he continues to lie.

[elkston]

110. It's smart to look back at what can't be changed? its over. STFU! (eom)

[Zuiderelle]

43. She did NOT say that, so stop spinning. Here are 1 and 2 since you didn't really listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODoSotQmkKA&feature=user

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIiLJIk32_0&feature=user

He said that she "got ahead in the popular vote" at one point. (first clip) He NEVER said that she won the popular vote.

And for your second wildly crazy claim about Palin, why don't you point that one out to me, because it did NOT happen.

[thewiseguy]

52. wow you really are spinning his words are not you?

He said that people were asking why Hillary was still in the race and she argued that she could still win the nomination by finishing ahead in the popular vote but she did get ahead in the popular vote even though she was outspent.

Then he said but the superdelegates went Obama's way and that was the end of the race because we did not want to drag this to the convention.

[Zuiderelle]

63. You've got it wrong. YOU spun by saying that he said she won the popular vote.

I corrected you by QUOTING him. I didn't spin anything.

Now you actually corrected yourself by explaining what he DID say. And what the fuck is wrong with what he did say? It's true.

Jesus.

[thewiseguy]

69. Its true? WTF are you talking about?

He said Hillary Clinton did get ahead in the popular vote even though she was outspent, then he talked about the superdelegates going to Obama.

Are you one of those PUMAs who has their own version of what happened during the primary?

Remarkably you are the only one who happens to have a different take on what Bill said in this respect.

[Zuiderelle]

76. Remarkably, you apparently only read what you want to read.

I am NOT the only one who heard what Bill said without spinning it.

And I support Obama 100%. Fuck you and your PUMA insult.

I like Bill. I like Hillary. I like Obama. I pray that Obama is our President, and I appreciate the fucking hell out of Bill for going on The View to get more support for him today.

[Nikki Stone1]

33. That doesn't look bad.

And the Big Dog is looking good! :)

[Zuiderelle]

54. He DOES look good. I can't wait to have a smart, good-looking diplomat back in the WH.

GOBAMA! :bounce:

[Nikki Stone1]

87. Gee. I thought you meant Biden!

:evilgrin:


:hide:

[Guava Jelly]

36. I wasn't offended by his remarks.

He was being a non partisan ex-pres..I'd bet a zillion dollars Dubya wouldn't be so classy as to compliment Obama.
People here are over reacting imho.

[walldude]

41. You are right about that....

Dubya wouldn't be caught dead giving any kind of endorsement to Obama. Maybe that's why we are winning by single digits instead of the fucking landslide this should be.

[walldude]

38. You know what? You're right.

I have no right to be angry. I should be lucky to be as diplomatic as Bill is. I should be able to go in front of a nation of people and lie my fucking ass off about how John McCain is qualified to be president. I should be happy that he's hoping to trash the health insurance industry like he did Wall Street, I should be happy he chose Sara Palin to be V.P. I should be happy that he's a fucking war mongering asshole and I should shut the fuck up if I don't agree with him. I don't deserve to rant, to be angry or to have any first amendment rights to say what I believe, especially if you don't agree with me. You are right. I'll shut my stupid pie hole now.

[Zuiderelle]

45. Good thing that you're not the one being interviewed then.

He's trying to not alienate people who are undecided. Telling them how stupid they are for considering McCain would be such a brilliant tactic. :eyes:

[faithfulcitizen]

62. At what point did he make a case for Obama? Ever? Even once?

He's not supposed to be Switzerland ya know. :eyes:

[Zuiderelle]

83. Throughout the entire interview is where. And in the closing especially.

Listing off the ways that Obama will win the election.

[faithfulcitizen]

84. You hear what you want to hear.

[Zuiderelle]

85. And you hear what you want to hear. Fortunately for me, I hear what he said.

[faithfulcitizen]

113. Someone needs to get you a transcript.

I appreciate you wanting to hear these wonderful things he supposedly said, but the fact he didn't.

[walldude]

80. Yeah its a good thing, I may have tried to educate the populace

on McCains failed policies and how they got us in this huge mess to begin with. Yeah educating the populace, that would have been a stupid move. Better to be a diplomat. There is no way to educate the populace without telling them they are stupid.

[nomaco-10]

44. You need to post ALL the youtubes of the ENTIRE interview to be fair. n/t

[Zuiderelle]

47. I did. Post #43.

[FloridaGrl]

57. Nice guys finish last

The media is obsessed with what Bill Clinton has to say and he knows it. By remaining neutral he seems to be saying something that he is not behind 100%. He has no passion for Obama to win. It seems like he is saying he wants Obama to win because he's a democrat. This is how some folks are seeing it and this is how the media will play it. You are not going to win independents by being neutral.

[faithfulcitizen]

67. Exactly!

[Zuiderelle]

79. Funny. I heard the interview three times now, and he seemed VERY passionate about Obama winning.

And about our country NEEDING Obama to be president.

[FloridaGrl]

129. I guess we watched different interviews

because I heard words but saw no passion. Look, lets get this straight- I have loved the Clintons for years but I just don't see him doing enough for Obama.

[geek tragedy]

58. He bent over backwards to avoid saying why

someone should vote for Obama, but he had loads of praise for McCain.

[timeoutofjoint]

68. Bill was being diplomatic--just like Obama does when he speaks of

the former President. And what does he get? thrashed by so many on DU.

It makes Sen. Obama look weak and a victim when I see the trashing.

[AtomicKitten]

70. He perpetuates the divide by insisting Hillary won the popular vote ... she did not.

[Zuiderelle]

81. HE DID NOT SAY THAT SHE WON THE POPULAR VOTE.

Go back and listen to Clip 1. He says that she "got ahead" in the popular vote.

Anyway, what the hell difference would it make anyway? She's his wife, and he's proud of her. How could his saying that she "got ahead in the popular vote" damage Obama in any way?

[AtomicKitten]

89. Your rationalization aside, PUMA types believe "the black man stole her show."

Obama won fair and square. Bill Clinton is still pressing the fallacious theory that he did not. To what purpose? It's a not too subtle wink-wink to those wallowing in their bitterness thus perpetuating the divide.

[Zuiderelle]

95. Your post is unnecessarily insulting.

"PUMA types" "black man stole her show" "wink-wink" "bitterness"

It's no surprise with that divisive language that you don't understand Clinton's diplomacy.

[AtomicKitten]

99. Too late. Bill Clinton himself lowered the caliber of dialogue before South Carolina.

And it doesn't dispel the truth that he is continuing to divide the Democrats by insisting that she won the popular vote.

[Zuiderelle]

127. And you twisting his words doesn't dispel the misinformation either.

[AtomicKitten]

128. He continues to perpetuate the myth that Obama didn't win the primary fair and square.

No twisting of words required.

[PresidentObama]

111. I will defend the Clintons, not the PUMAs. PUMAs are racists.

[Zuiderelle]

124. Who the hell is defending PUMAs?

I'm not.

[Nikki Stone1]

96. So you are trying to undo my thread with one post?

This doesn't help. :(:(:(

[AtomicKitten]

100. It is some of you that need to become acquainted with the unvarnished truth.

Perpetuating the lies and bullshit regarding the primaries is what is not helping.

[Nikki Stone1]

123. I beg your pardon?

What exactly are you saying?

[AtomicKitten]

126. You need to understand that perpetuation of the myth that the primary wasn't fair and square

is destructive on a number of levels. Correction of this misunderstanding whenever it comes up is essential to the wellbeing of the party.

It isn't an attack to assert the truth when it is being bent over and over again.

[karynnj]

97. She didn't "got ahead" Just because she's his wife doesn't mean it is becoming for a past President

to lie and undermine the legitimacy of the election - even if the losing opponent was his wife.

How does it hurt - it is a way to suggest it was unfair.

[NYC_SKP]

78. He was peddling his book. He was no help at all to us. None, nada, zilch.

In his defense, he didn't come out against Obama, but his lack of using this opportunity to warn voters of what a McCain presidency would bring or to draw contrasts between the two candidates is unforgivable.

Bill Clinton = FAIL.

[Balderdash]

98. You = FAIL! nt

[NYC_SKP]

114. Attacking other DU members is both juvenile and non-productive.

Bill Clinton failed to take the opportunity to properly criticize McCain and that is a failure to our future, yours, mine, Louisiana's, California's, everyone's.

You shouldn't attack other DU members for expressing their opinions.

Actually, it's quite against DU rules.

You might want to check that out.

:hi:

[Balderdash]

130. Really!? It's against the rules

to attack other DU members. I hope to see you pipe up again when a DU member attacks me.
If this board didn't have hypocrisy it wouldn't have much at all.

Bill Clinton AND Obama decided last week that Bill would start campaigning in October, right now he's selling a book and and promoting his own personal programs. But go ahead and continue to trash the one Democratic President that we've had that was successful, despite the Republicans going after him for every damn hangnail he had. It's actually worse when supposed Democrats do it.

[NYC_SKP]

140. If I see a member attack you, I'll get your back...I do it all the time.

It's the right thing to do.

We're not all going to agree on all things, and the Clinton thing is always divisive.

I see he's doing a couple events soon on our behalf. That's good.

[faithfulcitizen]

116. YOU = RIGHT ON.

[VeraAgnes]

90. Thank you for the video links

since I missed it today. O8)

[zulchzulu]

103. As one who is not a huge Bill Clinton fan, he obviously thinks Obama will win

Sure, he could have called McCain "that guy is lyin' through his teeth so much that the only tooth that should be left is in his soup..." or "McCain is about as old as the dinosaurs that Palin dudn't think wuz around..."

He wanted to be a gentleman about it... and try to sell his book... and I'm not sure where the proceeds go, but whatever...

[PresidentObama]

112. Thank you ZulchZulu.

[Zuiderelle]

134. Yep, and he said it multiple times, that he thinks Obama will and should win.

The ridiculous reaction to this is so tiresome.

[Political Tiger]

106. I was very mad at both Clintons during the primaries

But I'm over it now and am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Besides, if I'm gonna get mad I'm gonna direct that anger at McCain and the Repukes where it belongs!

[PresidentObama]

117. Thank you "direct that anger at McCain and the Repukes where it belongs!"

Well said, my friend.

[Blue Diadem]

118. Well, I understand he likes McCain, the American people like McCain,

yes he likes him.

Clinton could be diplomatic without having a love fest for the guy. Nobody said he had to come out and be negative towards McCain but IMO, it's pretty obvious he's not fully behind Obama.

Pay attention to it closely..how many times does he say he likes McCain or refers to McCain in positive ways.

He could have been just as diplomatic by saying he liked McCain once and going on to discuss how right Obama is for our country.

[holiday]

120. Have McCain or Palin ever said wonderful things about Obama?

Has Bush said anything nice about Obama? just wondering

[Zuiderelle]

135. They're assholes. Why should Clinton be an ass just because they are?

I'm glad we have the smart people on our side.

[LanternWaste]

121. As my HR rep once told me

As my HR rep once told me, "I don't think 'qualifications' and 'worthiness' are the same thing..." when we were discussing applicants for a position.

I'm afraid he's now considered persona non-gratis by too many "more-progressive-than-thou" Democrats. Shame that we're too quick to forget the achievements, and hold onto the mistakes too tightly.

[Curtland1015]

133. Okay... I saw for myself. What about that was supposed to make me feel better?

He didn't really endorse Obama any more than McCain.

He said he thought Obama would WIN, but only because people vote for the opposing party due to the bad economy and that more minorities would vote for him. That's not really an endorsement, that is a guess.

[Cha]

137. AND he lied about Hillary winning the primaries which is not only

not an endorsement it's Divisive and he's smart enough to know it.

[Doremus]

139. Thanks for that link.

That's one of the least convincing endorsements I've heard.

[Flying Dream Blues]

141. "Yes", to the first. And if "trashing" is noticing he is being unhelpful in the extreme

then I guess I'll have to say "No" to the second. How can you defend this? This isn't AFTER the election when he can be as statesman-like as he pleases. He understands better than anyone that in an election, former presidents either go all in for the party's candidate or THEY KEEP THEIR MOUTHS SHUT. And I'm sorry, but your fallacious argument that you either have to be diplomatic and neutral or call people stupid is ridiculously lame.

[Zuiderelle]

143. I can defend it because I wouldn't have changed anything he said.

All he said was "they are both qualified." He did not say that McCain was capable and he certainly didn't say that McCain was equal to Obama. He instead clearly said that he thought Obama would win, and that he thought that Obama would be a good president.

Obama would have said the same thing about McCain under the same circumstance. Why should Bill lie and say that McCain isn't qualified? He is qualified. Qualified does not mean "good. It just means qualified.

[mscuedawg]

142. Thanks PelosiFan for posting the three full videos...n/t

[TheKentuckian]

144. It would have been nice for him to sell Obama more

but I'm not going to bitch about it as long as he gets his sax on the road.

Also, just to keep the congestion down can we say that until at least after the election that no one can complain about the primary rules that didn't have the same complaint(s) at least four years ago?
Also, that we stop being so damn defensive about Bubba, whether its because one feels he isn't "onboard" as much as have should be or if someone has an issue with him that it doesn't cause a meltdown?