NY Times - Debate Style Preview - Appears To Give John McCain The Edge

[Median Democrat]

Obama:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26844551/

/snip

Senator Barack Obama has shown himself at times to be a great orator. His debating skills, however, have been uneven.

Some of his chief strengths — his facility with words, his wry detachment, his reasoning skills, his youthful cool — have not always served him well and may pose significant vulnerabilities in the series of presidential debates that begins Friday, according to political analysts and a review of his earlier debate performances.

Mr. Obama has a tendency to overintellectualize and to lecture, befitting his training as a lawyer and law professor. He exudes disdain for the quips and sound bites that some deride as trivializing political debates but that have become a central part of scoring them. He tends to the earnest and humorless when audiences seem to crave passion and personality. He frequently rises above the mire of political combat when the battle calls for engagement.

This was seen most starkly at last month’s forum at Saddleback Church, where he and Senator John McCain were interviewed back to back by the evangelical church’s pastor, the Rev. Rick Warren . Mr. Obama gave long, discursive answers to questions on loaded topics like abortion and personal moral failings, while Mr. McCain stole the show with earthy anecdotes and humor.

/snip

McCain:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26844487/

/snip

Senator John McCain , the Republican presidential nominee, heads into the first debate on Friday with a track record as a scrappy combatant and the instincts of a fighter pilot, prepared to take out his opponent and willing to take risks to do so.

He has used fairly consistent techniques during his roughly 30 debates on the national stage: he is an aggressive competitor who scolds his opponents, grins when he scores and is handy with the rhetorical shiv. Just ask Mitt Romney , whom Mr. McCain filleted on several occasions in debates during the primaries, perhaps most infuriatingly for Mr. Romney when Mr. McCain misleadingly asserted that Mr. Romney favored a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq.

A review of several of Mr. McCain’s debates shows that he is most comfortable and authentic when the subject is foreign policy. And in a stroke of good fortune, foreign policy is the topic for Friday, the first of three 90-minute debates with Senator Barack Obama , the Democratic nominee.

* * *

The moderator noted that while Mr. McCain had strongly supported the troop surge in Iraq, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton , then the likely Democratic nominee, wanted to pull the troops out. Mr. McCain was asked whether the surge was a winning issue for Republicans in 2008. With a quick nod to the troops, Mr. McCain, characteristically, hijacked the question and skipped to pork-barrel spending, his favorite bête noire.

“In case you missed it, a few days ago, Senator Clinton tried to spend $1 million on the Woodstock Concert Museum,” Mr. McCain said slyly. “Now, my friends, I wasn’t there,” he continued, letting it sink in why he had missed that ’60s be-in.

“I’m sure it was a cultural and pharmaceutical event,” he deadpanned, pausing again to stoke the culture wars. “I was tied up at the time.” The audience roared with approval and rose to its feet for an extended ovation. It was an overwhelming display of affirmation almost unheard of in a debate format.

/snip

[ShortnFiery]

1. Damn, the f**king M$M - all stripes- never fails to disappoint.

:puke:

[grantcart]

3. you don't get it - its a question of expectations

Personally I think that McCain will win the debate hands down. He is an absolute genius in foriegn affairs - the subject he knows everything about.

[ShortnFiery]

5. OMG! We are from different planes of existence. IMO, McCain is becoming so SENILE he can barely

finish a sentence. We clearly disagree. :(

[Median Democrat]

7. McCain Can Lie Without Flinching - Look At This Video of Romeny v. McCain

McCain just keeps misrepresenting Romney, and Romney finally starts to lose it, while McCain sits there and smiles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHLfhOr55_U

[grantcart]

13. You still don't get it

The more that the NYT builds him up before the debate the more he will be criticized for a lousy performance.

If you go in saying he is an idiot and then he does poorly they will say that he did better than expected.

Every single NYT pundit, including George Will, has come out against him and considers McCain/Palin idiots.


When a newspaper praises somebody before a debate it means that they are preparing to tear him apart afterwards.

[ShortnFiery]

17. Oh, I get it. I just don't agree. eom

[wvbygod]

37. Should we urge the NYT to continue their bias?

Does it help or hurt to have a major newspaper in our corner? What attitude do the fence sitters
develop when the media is not neutral? Is there an underdog effect for such a posture?

[Teaser]

23. No, McCain will win the debates handily

He is a debating genius. If there is a better debater on planet, they are lying low indeed.

[WinkyDink]

25. There's nothing "genius" about either his lies or his sarcasm.

[Teaser]

29. McCain would best Lincoln in a debate

he's that good.

[wvbygod]

38. Shhhhh...expecting mccain to do well lends him to a bigger failure

It's like hunting wabbits.

[elkston]

9. Sarcasm, right? (eom)

[WinkyDink]

24. Including the nations that border Afghanistan? Or where Spain is located? GMAB.

[mmonk]

33. Like "Czechoslovakia", countries bordering Iran, and Sunni vs Shia?

[debbierlus]

48. Me too. McCain is the BEST debator EVER.

:hide:

Poor Obama, I don't know how he will ever be able to even speak on the same stage.

;)

[Median Democrat]

4. Notice That NY Times Gives McCain Credit For His Ability To Lie With Conviction

For example, the NY Times notes that McCain repeatedly lied about Romney's support for a timetable. I watched some of that debate, and Romney lost his temper while McCain sat there and smiled. McCain is a very good liar.

[cali]

26. uh, we want the weight of expectations on McCain, not on Obama.

Stop being so reactionary and try thinking these things out. The lower the expectations the less the burden.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

44. ...

:rofl:

[Newsjock]

2. Since John McCain says the NYT does nothing but lie about him

... We can safely conclude that Obama is gonna kick ass.

[Bread and Circus]

6. It's kind of silly that we've become a country that scores debates on

stupid one liners and the ability to believe one's own bullshit.

This country appears to have collective ADD crossed with Stockholm Syndrome.

[Frank Booth]

8. Well, expectations should certainly be higher for McCain.

Obama doesn't excel in debates, while they're one of McCain's strong suits. The more this message is repeated prior to the debate, the better.

[Cha]

10. Precisely...I know this place will be hoppin'

Friday night!

[Median Democrat]

11. This Debate Is Foreign Policy - McCain's Alleged Expertise - He Has No Excuse For Not Kicking Ass

If McCain just comes out with a tie, he's hosed. He has to make Obama lose his cool like Romney did, by repeatedly misrepresenting and lieing about what Obama's position is until Obama loses it. McCain is a really good liar.

[anonymous171]

12. McCain will just repeat "THE SURGE" until the MSM crowns him to winner just to make him shut up.

Count on it.

[Cosmocat]

46. BINGO - people here don't want to hear it, but BO has already lost ...

"Mr. McCain stole the show with earthy anecdotes and humor."

per the article in regard to McCain at Saddleback, they BO's performance was treated in a condesending manner ...

ME - I saw a half senile loon go off on extreme radical rants that fed red meat to an audience that was ideologically aligned with him. Completely superficial, with him saying he will get evil or whatever. BO meanwhile, had to tell a crowd that did not favor him a dozen things they didn't want to hear, and was 10 times more genuine and real, and displayed adaptablity and thoughtfulness.

Wasn't even close if you were looking at who you would want to be the leader of the free world, but who did the media, even GOD DARNED Ds call the winner - McCain.

Who did better in 2000 and 2004, and who did the media call the winner.

People here are setting themselves up to be SORELY disappointed.

McCain is going to rant and rave, lie and spew talking points. BO is going to be everything that you would want in a president if you are anyone other than a right wing loon.

And, the media IS going to say McCain "won."

[flamingdem]

14. How retarded. However the NYT might be helping by raising Cain

so he can fall further... he he

[SemiCharmedQuark]

15. So McCain is an arrogant, condescending liar who always changes the subject to how he was a POW.

Yeah, that sounds like him. Thanks NYT.

[Forkboy]

16. Which means McCain should shine and Obama should struggle.

McCain is awesome in debates. Pass it on. ;)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

18. It's like his tongue was forged by Zeus himself!

He's the Cicero of our day!

[Forkboy]

20. hehe

:rofl:

You got the hang of that damn quick. :D

[terrya]

31. Yes...that's it. Obama can't possibly outmatch McCain.

It's going to take a shitload of work on Obama's part to match the superior debating skills of John McCain. I'd be seriously worried if I were in Obama's shoes right now.

:-)

[endthewar]

19. Actually, the Obama camp wanted the economy last so they could have that as last impression.

[Drunken Irishman]

21. While I love down playing expectations...rarely did Obama perform badly in a debate.

He did well and even won many.

[smoochpooch]

22. When McCain said he was "tied up" during Woodstock, I remember thinking

"if it wasn't for people like those who were at Woodstock, you might still be in Vietnam, ass"

[GoesTo11]

27. Obama's weak debating skill

I remember noticing that Obama had gotten a bit better over the course of the primaries, but then he lost the last debate when he was completely on the defensive and Hillary was very effective at attacking him. After that, he didn't want any more debates.

The only other recent data is that he was kind of passive at Saddleback while McCain was sharp.

If the debates with McCain are like Saddleback and like the last Democratic debate, Obama may be in trouble.

[mtnester]

28. Here it is, short and sweet - WE WANT A SMART PERSON IN THE WH

Don't these folks GET it? We are sick of the past few years of the dumb as a doorknob yeehawww wanker in there.
Smart will NOT hurt now. Cool head, with no stupid "got wood" outbursts will be fine.

The actual debates IMO favor him, cause I think he can shake McCain up with his direct coolness. Will make McCain look even more unstable.


on edit "coolmess" is not a word, unlike "hotmess"

[TNMOM]

30. lower expectations. perfect.

Even with the playing field tilted... Obama will rock.

[Essene]

32. Exactly. And in all honesty, partisans need to understand the following...

Even if we see Obama as "winning" an argument, it doesn't mean he won votes.

In fact, the point of this is that Mccain can stumble around, get in some masterful jabs, put Obama on the defensive and nobody who is truly Undecided will remember the other 99% of the debate.

[NewJeffCT]

34. McCain has a huge edge in the debates - if there is not a 10 point swing

in the polls after the debate, it's a huge upset and a victory for Obama. McSurge is a foreign policy titan who should dominate the less experienced Obama - I'm sure McCain's line about, "We're all Georgians now," will go down in history like Kennedy saying "I am a Berliner" or FDR saying, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself."

[RichGirl]

35. The important thing to remember here is that...

OBAMA IS SMART. Apparently nobody is suppose to mention that since high intelligence means "he's not one of us".

Seriously, he is smart, Unlike McCain (and Palin) who will have to memorize a lot of stuff, Obama actually understands them. He also understands where he is weak and can improve. I've noticed that he is more to the point and concise in his answers and I've heard very few "ums".

We are democrats. We want the leader of the free world to be smart. Trust his intelligence. If he graduated from Harvard magna cum laude, then he can handle it. McCain graduated in the bottom 1% of his class. He will be struggling and straining his pea brain.

[Phoonzang]

36. Scream at the MSM all you want but I had the same uh.....concerns.

Why did the Obama campaign agree to this "compromise" on the debates. They sacrifice the chance for Biden to run circles around Palin in a free-flowing debate for a free-flowing debate between Obama and McCain where that kind of debate works in McCains favor? Maybe they are really confident that he will do better in that kind of setting? I don't remember, did they do that in the primaries?

[stillcool]

39. I have very high expectations..

of John McCain. Everything I've read suggests that debating is his best venue. I'm sure the television spokespeople will preemptively declare John the winner of all the debates, but I look forward to seeing John's prowess in action.

[budkin]

40. Obama is going to own the shit out of McPain

[FloridaGrl]

41. Let's pepare ourselves

that no matter how good Obama/ Biden does in these debates msm will crown McCain/ Palin as winners.

[Enrique]

42. Obama has never been as PISSED as he is now

and he's never been as aggressive as he has against McCain.

His toughest opponent was Hillary and he was severely constrained against her. No such constraints against McCain, thanks to McCain's sleazy campaign.

[BigD_95]

43. I hate to say this

but its true. I thought out of all the Dem debates Obama only won one. Obama isnt a good debater in terms with how the MSM and most Americans look at the debates.

I actually like the way he debates but those " quips and sound bites " are what wins these things.

[Median Democrat]

47. Debates Fit McCain's Personality - He Loves To Put People Down - Napolean Complex

McCain has perhaps run the most sarcastic campaign ever, which fits descriptions of McCain from those who know him. The McCain/Romney debates were classic McCain in which he oozed contempt for Romney, and specifically lied about Romney in order to get under his skin. McCain tries to turn it into a personal confrontation so that he can play the role of a bully.

I think Obama needs to tear into McCain the myth while ignoring Mccain the man standing right in front of him. In other words, what McCain says at the debate, and the lies he spews are irrelevant. Rather just bring up, and tear McCain down based on his record and the GOP's record.

It won't be as personal as a face to face confrontation, but McCain wants to make it personal. Avoid the trap, and ignore him, and focus on his record. In other words, treat the man on stage like an empty shell of rhetoric.

[firedupdem]

45. Whatever! they can suck it! n/t