Just got into it with a wingnut.

[loudsue]

I'm so hoppin' mad I don't know what to do.

He's an electrical contractor I'm having to work with on a small job, and he has been drinking the BULLSHIT rightwing kool-aid until he's STUPID with it.

He says that Obama is a Muslim, and that when he was sworn into the Senate, he insisted on putting his hand on the Koran, instead of the Bible.

I told this friggin' fool that, first of all, that didn't happen or the rightwing media would have been having a 24/7 news climax, and that, second of all, Muslims aren't terrorists...it's just another religion, and if he HAD sworn on the Koran, that he is still the better candidate...and I listed about 7 reasons why that is.

He said that I should have watched the swearing in ceremony, and that he watched it, and Obama swore on the Koran. He also said that Obama was raised Muslim. THIS HAS BEEN REFUTED A BRAZILLIAN TIMES!!!!!!

I told him he was believing a lie that is being spread, especially in the South where we live, among rightwing gun nuts. This is what they talk about in their little hunting lodges and each other's "shops" in their back yards.

How do you get through to these people???? How can they be so fucking stupid??? I'm so sick of it!!! This country is in meltdown, and we have this evil, evil, evil force trying to choke the life out of us all, and it's called the republican party!!!

Shit. I need some valium.

[eshfemme]

1. Ask him about the Muslim that DID get sworn in on a Koran-- one owned by Thomas Jefferson.

Does that make Thomas Jefferson a Muslim sympathizer?

Seriously, there are pictures that show Obama swearing on the Bible.

[patrice]

2. Walk Away. There's nothing you can do for people who WANT to believe LIES.

[Cronopio]

41. Exactly - there's no reforming the Fraternal Order of Stupids (or their sorority sisters).

They're in a stupidity feedback loop, and you've got better places for your finite time and energy than that. They don't really believe anything other than trying to get a rise out of the rational people.

Just walk away - for your health and the good of the world.

[LNM]

3. He's confusing him with Keith Ellison - D - Mn.

and even if it were true, who gives a shit, and no, you can't get through to these morans. Point him to snopes. com.

[loudsue]

13. I hadn't thought of that.

Hell, sometimes I wonder if these jokers can even read.

I asked him about six times if he's bothered to READ Obama's two books. He said something to the effect that Obama would have lied in his books to get elected.

I said he'd never know unless he bothered to educate himself.

He got in his truck and sped away.

:hi: Buh-bye, asshole. Shit. And I've got to see him again next week.

[Hawkeye-X]

38. Can you fire him for cause and hire another contractor?

Just an idea...

[Touchdown]

74. Good point. He must think all black people look alike.

say that one when he waddles in Tomorrow.

[C_U_L8R]

4. Here's your best revenge...

donate to Obama :-)))

[loudsue]

10. Done. n/t

[C_U_L8R]

16. Excellent :-)))

feels awesome.

I'm waiting for Friday night to give again....
a little post debate encouragement.

[navarth]

5. sorry, but there's not a lot you can do with INTENTIONAL stupidity. but

you CAN make sure that he can't spread it to the people around him...at least while you're there.

I wouldn't want this clown anywhere NEAR my electrical.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. He's a fucking liar

Keith Ellison was sworn in on the Koran, not Obama.

[myrna minx]

7. My Congressman, Keith Ellison, had his official photo taken with Thomas Jefferson's Koran.

No member of Congress is "sworn in" on a Bible or anything else, they take an oath, so your freeper contractor is lying, when he said he "watched" it happen.

[loudsue]

20. Thanks for that info.

I didn't realize that. Are you sure? If so, how did Keith Ellison from Minnesota use a Koran. Is that done when they're STATE Senators, as opposed to federal? Whassup with that?

[myrna minx]

25. Congress people are sworn in, all at the same time (en masse), with the oath of office, with

no religious test, per the Constitution. They are allowed to pose for a photo, with their hand on the Bible, Koran or any book of their choice. Ellison posed for his photo with Thomas Jefferson's Koran, whereas many congress people prefer to pose for their photo with a Bible, but they are not sworn in individually with their hands on a Bible or any other book.

On edit: Here's a link...
http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2007/January/20070104165847mlenuhret0.8249933.html

[1corona4u]

8. Why get into it with a wingnut, when you can stay here and get into it

with a Dem?;-)

[loudsue]

15. LOL! No shit. n/t

[samuraiguppy]

9. fuck him and fuck all the

racist, redneck, whiteys like him. things are going to change when President Obama takes office.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. When I get that shit....

I say, "You know all that is bullshit. If you don't, it shows how truly ignorant you are and that you don't do any thinking for yourself. You listen to Rush and Hannity and they're your leaders. If you DO know it's all lies, it shows what an ignorant RACIST you are. Just say you don't like him and you're afraid of him because HE'S BLACK."

They STFU every single time, much to my dismay. So I continue...

"I thought your crowd liked to call a spade a spade? Why are you being all PC now? I thought that was for librul wussies. Say what you really mean. Why are you afraid to admit it?"

Then they walk away.

I can't get no satisfaction...lol.


Edit because I can't type any more ;)

[LNM]

23. Great reply.

[TuxedoKat]

33. Wow!

If all Dems stood up to these right wingnut bullies half as much as this, they wouldn't be anywhere near as powerful as they are. Saving your response in case I ever need it.

[Doremus]

39. Great response! I would only add a sentence or two to the end of it ---

something like "Obama is 30 times the man that McCain is. We're talking a Harvard Magna Cum Laude who got there ON HIS OWN -- no rich daddies, no silver spoons, no affirmative action. McCain was fifth from the bottom of his class. Now you may be stuck on skin color, but I'll take the smart guy any day and so will anybody else with half a brain."

Printing this off and memorizing. I'm done mincing words with racists. From here on out I'm blasting away!

[Cronopio]

47. You've had it easy.

Try to get into it with a real conservative Neanderthal. The types that still root for the Black Knight when watching Monty's Python's Holy Grail.

[olegramps]

64. I will gladly wire his house for free

Yep, old black and white don't get along too good especially when it comes to electricity.

[baldingrockwarlord2]

12. If Obama Loses....

It will be because America is too:

a) Racist

b) Stupid,uninformed and willing to believe right wing lies

c) evil. or

d) any combination or ALL of the above.

Take your pick.

[loudsue]

26. You forgot the computerized voting machines & republican

dirty tricks (caging, not putting in enough voting machines, sending people to the wrong precinct, etc.).

It's going to be a miracle if we ever get the elections in this country straightened out, after what the republicans have done to the election systems.

[baldingrockwarlord2]

31. thanks.

You are right, I did leave that out and it is also a real possibility. Let's hope for the best......:)

[tavalon]

79. You missed one

Too Diebolded.

[FrenchieCat]

14. Take your valium then.....

Cause I'm tired of hearing about the dumbasses.

I'm surprised that you are not ready to stop reporting on what each of them say. :eyes:

[Dawgs]

17. Tell him that an article was written about people that call Obama a Muslim.

Tell him that the article shows that anyone who says that is really a racist, and is scared of anyone who is brown.

Is that article true? I don't know, but if this guy will believe blatant lies, then he should believe your "story".

[Arugula Latte]

18. Don't worry, after Pres. Obama is inaugurated, we're going put him and his ilk into the "camps."

Camp Streisand, Camp Olbermann, Camp Garafalo, Camp Malloy, Camp Sarandon, and Camp Degeneres are under construction in undisclosed locations. Camp Dixie Chick and Camp Mosley-Braun are already completed and awaiting their first occupants.

[loudsue]

22. I'd be satisfied if they'd all get "raptured"

And leave the rest of us to live in peace. They can take all their fucking wars to "heaven" with them.

[nickyt]

19. Actually, you might have corrected him on this point: a freeper sign posted here

last week referred to Obama as a "muslin". Tell that fella to get his facts straight next time, dammit!!

[RedLetterRev]

28. 600 or 900 thread-count? n/t

[BonnieJW]

21. Ask him what he thought of the Rev. Wright videos.

This is a trap for these nuts. They'll launch into a tirade about Rev. Wright. Then you calmly say that Rev. Wright is the pastor of a Christian church in Chicago. You can't have Rev. Wright and Muslim at the same time.

[loudsue]

24. I told him he couldn't have it both ways...

I brought up Rev. Wright. He said that all the "black churches" preach voting for liberals, anyway.

I know what church this guy goes to, and all they ever do is preach the wingnut voting version. I told him that was a little "projection" on his part, since he knows what his own church is preaching. This guy's never set foot in a black church.

[complain jane]

27. Oh fuck him.

Those people will only believe what they want to believe anyway so don't waste your breath. Willfully ignorant people are a waste of time.

I stopped going to a RW message board because there are 3 assholes on there who are so fucking wrong and tell so many outrageous, racist lies about everything that I couldn't stand it anymore.

[beac]

29. Print out and show these pics

January 11, 2007 – Minnesota Representative Keith Ellison is the first Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress.
In early January, Ellison participated in a photo op with Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi to be sworn in
office using a copy of the Koran that belonged to President Thomas Jefferson.




BONUS: Video concerning Ellison's use of the Koran in the CEREMONIAL part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irs65zYhdTs





Barack Obama was sworn in as a senator on January 4, 2005 using his family Bible and Dick Cheney was present.

[loudsue]

48. Thank you for those pictures!

I just printed that out, and I'm going to ask the dude to put his money where his mouth is when I see him next. Then I'll show him the pictures, and score a little cash off the whole thing! ;)

[beac]

57. Just be sure to donate your ill-gotten gains to Obama!

Fair's fair. ;)

[Phoonzang]

30. You should have him make contact with a live wire.

Wait...no you can't do that. You've already made a post about your argument with him. Too much evidence. To off him now would be sloppy. People might look too closely at the "accident".

Um...just kidding of course. Yeah...that's it....kidding.

[chowder66]

32. A bit off topic

Just a thought. My brother(a republican)watches Fox news and I(a democrat)have challenged him and have accepted the challenge myself to trade our news programs for 5 days. I will be watching BillO and Hannity and Colmes on Faux News and he has agreed to watch Countdown and Rachel Maddow. We are going to each take notes on what we want to discuss. I think you all probably know where I am going with this.

[bunkerbuster1]

37. Welcome to DU, and please do post your report here.

I'd be very interested to hear what you and your brother have learned.

[Hawkeye-X]

44. How will he not cheat you?

Good luck. Keep a paperbag nearby - you'll need it.

Welcome to DU, regardless!

[chowder66]

46. Can't be sure...

...but I believe him. I'll watch Countdown and Maddow when it re-runs later or check online to see if he is at least reading or watching.

I am just tired of the B.S. that I hear about that came from Faux News.

[Hawkeye-X]

49. Make him give you a specific quote from Keith & Rachel

that was televised - you can always TIVO/DVR it and check if he's telling the truth.

Hawkeye-X

[chowder66]

52. Good Idea

I should be able to tell if he watched it. He's always been truthful with me and I'm sure he will welcome the debate.

[loudsue]

50. That's great!!

I can't wait to hear what comes of it all.

[babylonsister]

53. Welcome to DU, chowder66, and I hope you take notes and

report back on what happens with your brother. I'd be very interested to know his perceptions after 5 days of that darn librul media.

[yardwork]

56. That's a really good idea! Congratulations for reaching out and I hope it works.

[frylock]

34. how do you get through to these people..

honestly, if he told me that he WATCHED Obama being sworn-in on the Koran, I would've called him a lying piece of shit, right up in his ugly little face, and explained to him in no uncertain terms that he is NOT to talk to me, EVER. there is no getting through to people who would willingly LIE to you like this GDI. a litle harsh? perhaps.

[zulchzulu]

35. Just tell him you are a Muslim and reach for your belt like you have belt bomb

He'll run.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. It was Keith Ellison

But I suppose this nitwit thinks all Black men look alike.

[Bleacher Creature]

40. Did he also argue that 2+2=7??

[nomaco-10]

42. They're crawling out from under their rocks here lately because...

they're scared. It's just dawned on them that palin is a pathetic poser and mcain is a dottering old idiot. They see the polls breaking obama's way and they are scared shitless.

Focus on the Family, the NRA and all the other crap ads they've tried to throw at us that used to work, don't fly anymore. They're desperate.

I love it.

[yardwork]

55. I agree. That demographic is scared all the time anyway. The fear is just ramped up.

These poor people have been afraid for so long. At least since the U.S. Civil War. They're terrified that the bogeyman is coming to get them at any minute. First it was "scary" black people and then it was scary communists and now its scary terrorists and suddenly the whole country is going down. And, honestly, the U.S. has not been good to them. Recent decades have seen the standard of living drop quote a bit for white rural people. Of course they vote against their own interests, and the Rethugs and conservative Democrats they keep putting in power just cut deeper into what little remains of the shredded safety net. Lousy education, jobs all outsourced, no health care and no way of paying for it even if it were available in their isolated towns, TV and radio taken over by right-wing corporatist propaganda, kids sent to war and returned in body bags or all torn to pieces, cheap cigarettes and liquor, and the pastor raving about End Times and guns, God, and gays.

These are the people Obama was talking about, and he was right, and Obama's words were one of compassion and understanding. These folks have been abandoned by everybody, and no wonder they are bitter.

[nomaco-10]

60. Great Post. You have a great insight into what we've .....

been up against as a party for decades and an even better insight into the mindset is of these poor, pathetic creatures and how their hatred and fear has played into the hands of the repub party that have conned and exploited them for years.

Thankfully, we finally have a candidate that gets it too. I just wonder how many more decades it will take to turn some of these people around.

[Mopar151]

65. I would beg to differ - a little

Bein' white, rural, and broke myself.
You are absolutely correct that these "poor people" are driven by fear. I differ that they have been "abandoned by everyone" - there are leigions of shitheels waiting to mine them for their last dollar! And fear is the leverage that makes it work - fear of a black man. fear of "foreigners". fear of education, literacy, and "all a' that art shit".
And (IMHO) fear is an irrational emotion, it makes people (particularly compulsive, illogical, and neurotic) do batshit crazy, self destructive shit.
And your "pal" the electrican is quite prone, because his trade hews to a rigid "Code", and actively discourages reasoning or interpretation.

[yardwork]

70. All true. Of course, not all rural white people think this way.

[loudsue]

66. Well said, yardwork, and so true.

They're scared of everything. And the neocons USE that fear to push through an agenda that scares the beejeezus out of the rest of us.

[southpaw]

43. Serious question

Which NASCAR driver's number was on the front of this idiot's baseball cap?

[Union Label]

45. You need to get the fuck out of jesusland

and come to a sane place, thats why I love California.

[loudsue]

54. I love California.

My brother lives in Sac, and I go out there to visit every chance I get.

I can't leave this area without leaving my husband behind, and he's not negotiable. His roots/family/ancestors are here, and he'd never leave.

[mnhtnbb]

62. You don't need to move to California. Just move to Chapel Hill or Carrboro or Asheville or Durham.

We left California (Santa Monica) in 1988 and have never looked back. You couldn't pay me to move back.
Find a place to live that is a liberal oasis--but within driving distance to hubby's family.
We've been in Chapel Hill since 2000 and I LOVE it.

:hi:

[yardwork]

68. LOL! I live in Chapel Hill - read about my encounter with the plumber upthread!

The loons are everywhere.

[loudsue]

71. Hi, neighbor! I go to Chapel Hill every week or so!

I go there for one thing or another....like Trader Joe's, my acupuncturist, etc., etc. I LOVE Chapel Hill. It's a long way, but worth the trip.

We live on a street named after my husband's great great grandfather. The land has been in the family .... well, a long time. The family cemetery, on the home place land, has graves dating back to the 1700's. It's not just North Carolina he loves. It's the land he lives on. He was born on it, and he'll be buried on it, and doesn't even bother contemplating the idea of living anywhere else....it's not gonna happen. And I like him MORE than I hate the wingnuts that live around here, so I just have to get mad everytime I have a conversation with one of those idiots. I try not to talk politics or religion with them, but sometimes it can't be avoided...like today.

I don't know what I ever did without DU. It really helps to have a community to go to when things get too maddening here. I think there are a LOT of rural dwellers, and red staters, on DU whose only sane social discourse comes from our fellow DUers.

:loveya:

[mnhtnbb]

82. When you drive down Franklin Street (we live just off it), wave!

:hi:

[loudsue]

83. No joke? That's where I go.

:hi: I love Chapel Hill... and Carborro.

[yardwork]

51. I had the beginnings of a similar conversation with my plumber last week.

Just don't go there with the loons. It's not worth it. The one ray of sunshine I got from my exchange (You couldn't really call it a conversation - wasn't up to that level) with the plumber was that he had nothing good to say about McPain either. In fact, he really didn't want to talk about the election at all. When I pressed him, he said that whoever we got would be a "pig in a poke>" (For those who don't know, this means a swindle. He expects to get swindled no matter what).

I said that I thought that Obama would be a great president, and the plumber got all scaredy-cat about communists. Then he got belligerent and left in a huff. I think it's possible he won't bother to vote at all.

[loudsue]

59. This guy liked the idea of McInsane invading Iran.

So my guess is he's going to vote for him, even though I told him Palin would likely end up President before the first term was out if McInsane won.

He thought Clinton screwed up because he didn't go get Saddam Hussein. Clinton. No mention of Bush-daddy's Desert Storm war. It was Clinton's fault.

These people are so stuck on Bill Clinton. It's like, just think how marvelous the whole world would be if Bill Clinton had never been president. These people are STOOOOOPID!!

[yardwork]

69. My plumber said that Obama reminds him of Castro. Sigh.

[Poseidan]

58. Common

Republicans are cowards and tyrants. That's why they kill defenseless animals. They're all smoke, no fire.

[codjh9]

61. There IS no way to get through to the true nuts, so as someone else said, the best

revenge is donate (or volunteer, or whatever) for Obama. That guy clearly isn't going to be one of the people crossing over to our side, nor will my brain-dead aunt & uncle and my fundamentalist brainwashed brother. As the bumper sticker says, MINDS ARE LIKE PARACHUTES - THEY ONLY FUNCTION WHEN OPEN.

[NYCGirl]

63. Give him this link:

www.isbarackobamamuslim.com

[Arkana]

67. No, he didn't watch it, because Obama wasn't fucking sworn in on the Koran.

Perhaps he watched Keith Ellison of MN being sworn in, but not Obama.

[secondwind]

72. tell this contractor to stay tuned........McCain camp bringing out all the Jeremiah Wright

tapes from the attic once more.

Our guy can't be BOTH!

For Pete's Sake.

[Downtown Hound]

73. You know what I do in situations like that?

Put a little money on it. Since you know you're going to win, put enough to make yourself a nice profit, but not enough to drive him away. Say to him, "I am so absolutely certain that you're wrong, there is zero doubt in my mind. None. And I've got a hundred dollars to back it up. Care to put your money where your mouth is? Before you do, just let me assure you beyond any doubt, that you are going to lose. What say you?"

This instantly has the effect of putting said moron on the defensive. Suddenly, he's going to be seriously pondering whether or not he is absolutely positive. If he isn't sure, then he's going to hesitate. If he tries to back away, then say something like, "I thought you were positive. Are you saying you're not? Is this what Republicans do? They just spout random bullshit and claim that it's fact, and then waffle when somebody asks them to back it up with a little cash? This is your opportunity to humiliate a liberal and take his cash. Why would you pass on that?"

If he hesitates further or tries to weasel out of it by saying something like, "I don't believe in taking other people's money," tell him he can take it and donate it to whatever right wing cause he believes in. Or give it to charity. Then try lowering the amount of the bet, but always make him feel like his honor and his pride on on the line. Republicans have enormous egos, they hate being made fools of, hence why they continue to live in their world of delusion. I think it's just really hard for them to admit they were wrong.

At this point, he'll either agree to the bet or pass on it. If he passes, then be sure and taunt him for all it's worth, saying stuff like he's only declining because he knows he's full of shit. If he accepts the bet, then go look it up and prove him wrong. He'll have to follow it through to the end now because his cash is on the line. When he loses, see if he actually pays up. If he does, then explain to him how it would be more profitable for him in the future if he stopped putting his trust in Republicans and their lies. If he doesn't pay up, then tell him that you expected as much from a member of a party as dishonorable as his is, and walk away.

I've tried this approach on three different occasions. I have yet to find a Republican that will take me up on my offer. But I can tell you that they get really flustered when they are forced to back down, especially if there are other people around watching. But maybe you'll be able to top me and actually take a Repukes cash sometime and make a fool out of him in the process. Good luck if this opportunity ever presents itself for you again. But be sure that you are ABSOLUTELY certain as you are in this case.

Oh and one more thing, if you do take his money, tell him you're going to donate it to Planned Parenthood or the ACLU. Whether or not you actually do is your own business, but he doesn't have to know that. ;)

[YDogg]

75. hell, i wish i could rec this!

well done!

[BlooInBloo]

77. You have to clarify *up front* what the standards of proof are, of course.

[BlooInBloo]

76. (shrug) Bigots are permitted to exist by people who continue to think....

they're just being "stupid", instead of DELIBERATELY CHOOSING TO LIE.

[Matariki]

78. You can't GET THROUGH. Didn't you read that recent study?

Facts and truth just make people like this stupider. Literally.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-sweeney/theres-no-arguing-with-co_b_126805.html

[Sparkly]

81. Wow! I hadn't seen that.

Thanks for posting the link. Amazing!! :wow:

[loudsue]

85. rofl!!! So someone finally did a double-blind study!!!

:rofl: Now we REALLY know what we already knew!! They're right!! Nobody can argue with 'em without them becoming even stoooopider!

[wildeyed]

80. Don't waste your time.

Some people can't be helped.

[Swamp Rat]

84. smoke weed and listen to Erik Satie

:)

Gymnopédie No.1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSxDjW9bLCQ

[curious one]

86. There exists stupid ones.

[TheKentuckian]

87. Education defeats ignorance

but you can't fix stupid.

The willful ignorance is the scariest one though. I think these have to be confronted and have their ignorance defeated.

Telling willful ignorance from plain stupid is tough work but it is worth it. There's reforming Republicans every day slowly turning around or better put waking up.