I'm not a super huge fan of the Clintons but what I saw of Bill on TDS was spot on...

[Bread and Circus]

What Bill and Hillary have been doing is appropriate. Sure, Bill says a few sly things now and then, but the core of his message is this:

1.) Don't alienate rural voters.
2.) Be careful addressing Palin because if you attack her, it can be misconstrued as an attack on women and an attack on rural voters.
3.) Stick to the issues.
4.) Make this election about the "people" and their concerns, not about the candidates themselves.

This is all very sound advice.

In fact, had Bill and Hillary done this during the primary season (as opposed to calling Obama a big fairy tale and poking fun at the leftist base of the party) they might have beat Barack.

I've said a 100 times on this board that Democrats need to embrace rural America, not disparage it. Bill, having been the "rural guy" in the primary season, almost pulled it out of the fire for Hillary. He knows rural voters will get excited about a Democrat if they just pay us some attention.

Overall, Bill and Hillary do have jobs and lives to lead of their own. I don't doubt they'd be happy to run again in 2012. Nonetheless, they have been helpful to this point all things considered.

What Bill said tonight is similar to what Bill told Barack the other day at their meeting. Obama is following his advice and IT IS WORKING so let's be thankful.

[WCGreen]

1. Tom Joad was a democrat....

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. So Was Johnny Cash

~

[BrklynLiberal]

2. He was very good tonight on TDS.

He said that the Dems do not have to fight for those that love them already...They to win over those that must be convinced that Obama loves THEM, and would be the candidate that would do the best for them in the White House.

[tiptoe]

3. Bill put Mark Penn into Hillary's mouth: "Only John McCain and I are qualified to be Cmder n Chief."

"4.) Make this election about the "people" and their concerns, not about the candidates themselves."

right.

[AtomicKitten]

6. What was said cannot be undone.

My heart sank when I found out the Clinton camp were out front of the Muslim racist smears against Obama. There are those that either are in denial about it or think it's no big deal. I will never forgive them for it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/05/clinton-camp-admits-iowa-_n_75459.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ari-melber/clinton-backer-bob-kerrey_b_77249.html

[endthewar]

7. If this is how she treats a black man who is her friend,

then how would she treat a black man who is a stranger? :shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

8. Maybe I'm naive, but I really had no clue that racism was alive and well in the Dem Party.

It really breaks my heart. :cry:

[endthewar]

9. The lure of becoming President is just too strong.

Nobody wants to remain in the Senate forever. Sarah Palin is meeting foreign leaders while Hillary is showcasing New York's farming industry. I do remember observing Hillary's body language during the debates though. I could tell that deep down inside it bothered her to do these kinds of things, but she must have concluded that it was her only path to victory. In Hillary's defense, she's been made numb by the many years of Republican attacks against her. Keep in mind that many of the attacks were sexual in nature and very embarrassing, given Bill's extracurricular activities. She just became numb to political attacks after a while. I think Obama was right in that she learned the wrong lesson.

[AtomicKitten]

10. I completely agree.

>>I think Obama was right in that she learned the wrong lesson.<<

Cheers.

[rebel with a cause]

11. Racism is alive and well everywhere.

It may be covert and it may be denied, but we all have prejudices and it is up to us whether we allow those prejudices to become racism and the prejudices of others to be allowed to grow into racism. There is a difference in prejudice and racism and it is up to the people to recognize their prejudices and control them.

Don't let it break your heart AtomicKitten. Recognizing that it exists is the beginning of the battle to fight its continuing.
JMHO

[AtomicKitten]

12. I have had the good fortune of living mostly in very progressive cities.

I really have little, if any, firsthand experience with this stuff.

Thank you for your encouraging words. I remain steadfastly hopeful we can and will elect our first black president. That should shove America kicking and screaming into the 21st century!

Cheers.

[rebel with a cause]

13. If you remember the song by Joni Mitchell

"Both Sides, Now" just change clouds/love to racism and you have my theme song. :7

I grew up in all white county, with sundown laws and all the other things that go with it. We were protected from it somewhat by my mother who did not believe in racism and would not let us take part in it. She died when I was young and some of my family are very prejudice. I haven't had any contact with that part of it for around twenty years.

I left that area and went to NYC, where I met and married a man from the Dominican Republic. I lived in the Latino community and learned about prejudice from their view. I had two children and learned even more about what prejudice was like when it happened to you and those you love. Foolishly, I returned to my old home town with my children and learned things back here had not changed as much as I had been led to believe. I moved from my home town and now live in the area around the university, where there is more diversity and openness. But like I said, there is prejudice and racism everywhere and just when you think you are safe from it, it pops up and shows its ugly head. If you are white, you may not notice it but if you are a member of a minority you have no choice.


:hippie: Love and Peace to us all

[AtomicKitten]

29. cheers ;)

>>there is prejudice and racism everywhere and just when you think you are safe from it, it pops up and shows its ugly head<<

It does and it amazes me when people are unwilling to see it because they become immune to it. I think it's part of why it has been passed down from generation to generation like a nasty virus.

[renie408]

24. There is no proof of any kind that Hillary was involved in those rumors.

Don't get fooled when somebody slaps a bunch of links on the end of a post. READ what the links say. In the case of all of the links involved here as 'evidence' that Hillary was behind the 'Obama is a muslim' thing, the articles refer to the fact that three volunteers in Iowa sent an email to that effect and in an interview with Steve Kroft, Hillary said point blank that Obama was not a muslim. She then said that she took him at his word and in another question about it answered, "No. No, there is nothing to base that on. As far as I know." The total evidence of her complicity is that 'as far as I know'. I read the same interview and didn't get out of it that she was trying to keep the rumors alive.

I am NOT a Hillary supporter and a lot of people here will remember that during the primaries, I did not support her.

[AtomicKitten]

28. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

* Usual Suspects

[Metric System]

14. WTF? You're clearly looking to rehash the primaries. And "an Iowa county chair volunteering for the

campaign" sending the email hardly proves that the Muslim smear was orchestrated and condoned by the Clinton camp. I'm definitely not excusing the email, just pointing out that Hillary cannot be blamed for the actions of a volunteer any more than Obama should be blamed for the actions of volunteers in his campaign. I felt compelled to post this especially given the comment in the post following yours (reply #7).

[AtomicKitten]

16. *

http://trainwreckpolitics.com/2008/03/03/hillary-clinton-tries-her-best-to-keep-the-obama-muslim-smear-alive/

http://faithfulprogressive.blogspot.com/2007/12/third-clinton-volunteer-involved-in.html

http://www.topix.com/us/politics/2007/12/hillary-campaign-acknowledges-county-chair-backing-hillary-passed-along-obama-muslim-smear-email

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html

[renie408]

22. Three of those repeat that it was volunteers in Iowa that sent the email

and the other one is Hillary Clinton telling Steve Kroft that she doesn't think Obama is a muslim. Your sole reason for believing that Hillary Clinton personally made an effort to keep the rumors that Obama is a muslim alive is that she said, "I take him on the basis of what he says." and "as far as I know" in the interview. She also said, "Of course not. I mean, that, you know, there is no basis for that." But that doesn't suit your opinion, so we'll just skip right over that. And we should just bypass the fact that the volunteers were immediately asked to resign and we can also skip over "No. No, there is nothing to base that on." and "Look, I have been the target of so many ridiculous rumors, that I have a great deal of sympathy for anybody who gets, you know, smeared with the kind of rumors that go on all the time."

I didn't know anything about Hillary supposedly keeping those rumors alive. I still don't. I won't say she didn't. But I don't have any evidence that she did.

[AtomicKitten]

27. Your willingness to look the other way is duly noted ... as far as I know.

wink-wink

[sandspur]

15. Wow, the hatred just keeps going. If you really want to hash out all the

wounds inflicted by each of the the two campaigns, can we please wait until after the election? And you just might be surprised to what some the people who where not in the Clinton campaign where up to So lets keep focused on the important thing, getting Obama elected. It gets more important each day

[bunnies]

21. 19 posts and already lecturing like a seasoned DUer.

Did we know you in a former life? :shrug:

[ieoeja]

36. Bullshit! Hillary said only John McCain was "definitely" qualified.

She said she only "believed" that she "might" be qualified. She was not just recommending John McCain over Obama. She was recommending John McCain over herself as well. So don't try claiming this was a huge mistake on her part for Obama only. She'd have done more damage to her own campaign with that remark (which she repeated multiple times) had she won the nomination.

[AtomicKitten]

37. "Hillary endorses McCain Over Obama Four Times"

From: http://www.americablog.com/2008/03/hillary-again-says-three-more-times.html

First time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4JnWQsxKw

2nd time: "(McCain has) never been president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002."

3rd time: "I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

4th time: "Of course, well, you know, I've got a lifetime of experience. Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience. And you know, Senator Obama's whole campaign is about one speech he made in 2002."

[endthewar]

40. You're hitting homeruns from these slow balls they're tossing you!

:rofl:

[JeanGrey]

4. Almost pulled it out for Hillary? You must be joking!

He hurt her.

[curious one]

5. The 4 points show Bill learned his lesson?

[demhistorian]

17. That's how campaigns are won. You don't tear your opponents a new one at each opportunity

[snake in the grass]

18. Yes, of course,

and that's why Bush lost. Twice.

[demhistorian]

19. Bush didn't attack his opponents at every opportunity. I'd like to see references if you disagree

[snake in the grass]

30. Technically, you are right.

Bush never came out and directly called Kerry a coward or Gore a pathological liar. The 527s did that, but no one can tell me he wasn't aware of this or didn't approve it. Naturally, there were other factors involved in those two elections like election fraud or the unwillingness of the Democratic candidates to fight. By remaining passive the Republicans could define our candidates and keep them on the defensive. I'd love to see Obama ask McCain straight up if he learned anything from the Keating Five scandal or what his role exactly was. McCain would lose it.

You see, we are not the ones who need to be convinced. We have to reach the Jerry Springer viewers. We have to reach the WWF fans and these people operate with their brain stems. There is nothing cerebral there but they understand a slap down. I just heard Obama is ahead 9%, which is good because even with the Bradley Effect he would win, but I would feel much better if his lead were 20%. The Republicans can only get uglier from here on.

[Demi_Babe]

23. I agree

[mucifer]

25. my only concern is that more undecideds and repubs watch Letterman than TDS.

I just wish he got it right earlier.

[RichGirl]

26. I was mad at Bill after The View.

But, you know, he's a really smart guy who knows people very well. He understands the public. Let's say you are a republican. You may not think McCain is the best choice but you admire him. If the dems are trashing him then you feel sorry for him, and his great sacrifice, and want to protect and defend him. If the dems are lavishing praise on him...you think, well he'll always be a war hero no matter what happens. If McCain is honored among dems it puts Obama in a much better light.

I can't imagine why anyone would based their vote on loyalty to a candidate instead of their own best interest. BUT THEY DO. Even dems who are so loyal to Hillary that they'll vote for McCain. So for those people, it's good to show respect to McCain.

Bill knows that Obama needs indies and republicans to vote for him (he already has most dems) so he's trying to appeal to them. I would be willing to bet that if Hillary were our candidate he would do exactly the same thing. Kill them with kindness.

[Beacool]

31. Bill NEVER called Obama "a big fairy tale".

He called his inconsistent position on the Iraq vote a fairy tale, big difference. Not that the MSM and the LW blogs gave a damn about his actual quote.........

[Arugula Latte]

32. Side note (yes, trivial) about TDS appearance by Clinton:

I felt Clinton came across arrogant and condescending. He HAD to be the one controlling the conversation, and he would physically reach over and grab Jon Stewart's arm as a physical manifestation of this need to control. Very weird! At the end, Jon Stewart made a "joke" that Clinton had hurt his arm.

[barack the house]

33. Yes, exactly as I said with more detail Bill was just on defensive from tough questions but there >

was good points there too.

[ieoeja]

34. Why was Bill advising Obama in the early primaries?

While Hillary carried the urban areas in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada, Obama swept the rural counties. He won the Illinois Senate primary the same way, by concentrating on rural counties and letting the other candidates fight over Chicago.

Sure is a good thing he had Bill to advise him throughout his political career.

Oh, wait, Obama has a rural background himself. Maybe that is where Obama came up with the idea to talk with rural folk instead of down to them?

[Johonny]

35. he openly laughed at the apple pie joke

He's got the regular people act down pat. You think McCain knows what an McDonalds apple pie is?

[Overseas]

38. I thought his comments were OLD HAT. Like, Duh, even.

He did better on TDS than other shows, and Jon was cute by openly teasing Bill about not reaching the high bar that had been set for him to support Obama's candidacy. Jon got the audience to cheer that by golly he had met that bar, but the performance was still lackluster in my book.

Sometimes he talks as though his ideas were fresh, and they weren't. The Obama campaign has been doing all those things very well. They've been trying hard to keep the issues in the forefront, while the Republicans have pushed personality. But Bill didn't seem to see that. Just because Barack's charisma may rival Bill's own.

Even on Palin, while we riff raff may have begun by trashing her recklessly, wiser heads prevailed and urged us to follow the Obama team's lead and focus on her professional faults-- the cronyism and corruption and mixing of religion into her governing. The Obama team inspired us to stick to the issues.

So in that way Papa Bill annoyed me. Instead of lecturing about what we should be doing (as though we weren't already doing it) he could have demonstrated more of how to issue intense critiques of the issues supported by Used to be a Hero McCain and Charming Sitcom Sarah.

[ClarkUSA]

39. I'm sure Chris Rock's message got through to Hillary2012's informal campaign manager loud and clear.

I wasn't impressed with Bill's lukewarm pro-forma words but at least he didn't describe
McCain as "a great man... who's a real agent of change" again.

:eyes: