suspending a CAMPAIGN during a crisis sets a precedent for suspending an ELECTION during a crisis.

[unblock]

baaaaaad idea.

we must remain committed to the process of democracy, even if it seems ... inconvenient.




on edit: this is not a paranoid forecasting of a november surprise. shrub lacks the politcal capital to get away with suspending elections. but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen 4, 8, or 20 years from now. we should not let it become acceptable to talk about interrupting the process of chosing a president because of any "crisis". we should always have a commitment that the process and should denounce mclame's disrespect for the electorate and for this very important aspect of our democracy.

[brooklynite]

1. Please recycle your tinfoil

[Boz]

11. Ill keep my tinfoil: Why are we depolying a COMBAT brigade in "full battle rattle" on US soil

In a few days, on October 1st, for the first time ever in the history of modern Army command, the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team will deployed on US soil for DOMESTIC Operations.

A full COMBAT infantry brigade patrolling DOMESTIC soil in "FULL BATTLE RATTLE".

The question that then begins to be asked is why wouldn't a COMBAT brigade be sent to the war zone and National Guard units be returned to take up the Civil Defense aspects related to this deployment, UNLESS THE COMBAT ASPECT WAS WHAT THEY WERE BEING DEPLOYED FOR.

Link is broken click and add a slash at the end

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w

So in context and in addition to the Bombers in Venezuela,airforces and navies of the US, Russia and Israel doing the DANCE and playing the game of RISK or chess to stalemate each others moves, you have US troops preparing for GROUND BATTLE (because infantry is ground battle) if not on US SOIL as their deployment orders stand, but placed for a possible invasion force for a southern hemisphere attack or worse for active COMBAT USE against our own people in a civil uprising on US soil.

Two months ago I would have said this was a bad Grisham novel and anyone repeating it was nuts, now I can't help but point it out to those who ask and say, it isn't nuts to see it, its nuts that we are here and almost no one in the MSM is letting us know.

[BrainStorm]

21. I wish I could recommend this post.

This deserves a separate thread.

[Boz]

23. It fits here in context to the subject and its discussion, but wouldnt fit as thread of its own.

But thanks

[habitual]

2. actually, it sets a precedent for suspending a campaign

during a crisis. Not suspending an election.

[Rockholm]

3. The tinfoil has been considering this for a while.

Forty days to go. The world is watching us.

[Spider Jerusalem]

No, it doesn't.

An election has never been suspended in this country; not during the Civil War, not during WWII.

[unblock]

15. and i hope to keep it that way.

democracy is not best defended by simply waiting for a complete takeover to show up at your doorstep.

[lurky]

17. This has been a presidency of firsts.

I'm not expecting anything to happen, but it's important to be vigilant. It happens in other countries all the time, and if you think we are somehow magically immune to it, you are living in a fantasy world. In fact, the Bushies quietly floated the idea of "delaying" the last election, if you don't remember:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/election.day.delay/index.html

And you should read up on Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the COG while you're at it.

[grannie4peace]

4. good point!!

[BlooInBloo]

5. Democracy delayed is democracy denied.

[Occam Bandage]

6. ...what? No. That's ridiculous.

"Missing your flight because you're running late sets a precedent for SHUTTING DOWN CIVIL AVIATION BECAUSE YOU'RE RUNNING LATE"

[unblock]

13. nice strawman

your one flight and all other flights are not related, especially if the reason for missing the one flight is tardiness. they are not fundamentally part of the same process for the same single purpose; each flight is essentially independent and serves many different people for different purposes. nevermind that "missing" a flight is very different from "shutting down" a flight, or all flights.

campaigns and elections are fundamentally linked, and are both intended to help the nation determine who the next president will be. if some crisis justifies suspending a campaign, and people accept that, then it becomes easier to argue that some other crisis might justify delaying or suspending an election.

i'm not saying it's going to happen here, this year; but that sort of thing certainly has happened in other countries and we must not give these arguments any support or credibility.

the candidates have a responsibility to the electorate to let them make an informed decision, and campaiging is an essential component of that.

[Occam Bandage]

19. Campaigns and elections are not "fundamentally linked," no.

Campaigns are independent, private entities that exist to inform/educate the public, usually about an upcoming vote on a referendum, election, or proposition. Elections are legally-mandated events that occur regardless of campaigns. It's not uncommon to have ballots for which there has not been a single campaign involved (say, my 2007 local ballot, which had nothing but judges on it, none of whom campaigned).

Someone saying "I don't want to campaign right now because I think my time could be better put to use elsewhere" in no way suggests that anyone else must do so, and it certainly does not bear one whit of resemblance to someone saying "We should cancel the election." It does not "pave the way," it does not "set a precedent," it does not do absolutely anything but give McCain an excuse to rest and read up on the economy for two or three days.

[unblock]

24. except that mclame didn't just suspend his own campaign. he called on obama to do the same

i'd agree with you if his wife were seriously ill and suspended the campaign to be by her side. there's no implication that the process stops. the opponent continues to campaign, the election goes on as scheduled, etc.

but his justification for suspending a campaign based on a (more than slightly engineered) public crisis, AND calling for obama to do the same, is a call for the PROCESS to be suspended. that's not a personal decision he's making about his own campaign. he's using a rationalization that could later be used to suspend elections.

that's a rationalization i want roundly denounced.

[Occam Bandage]

27. And, as you may have noticed, his call was about as effective as yours or mine would be.

Moreover, he wasn't calling for a stop to the "process." You're way, way, way overgeneralizing the word "process" there. "Process" meaning "The rhythm of campaign stops and ad buys" has very little to do with "process" meaning "the system of nationwide voting occurring November 4th, 2008, leading to the choosing of electors for each state, culminating in the electoral college vote which will determine who is sworn in as President in January 2009."

[RichGirl]

7. Delaying the election will not help McCain.

The more we know about Palin, the less we like her. He needed the election to happen the day after he introduced her!

[VeraAgnes]

8. It is a way to test the waters.

OMG, I heard Amy Goodman yesterday say in October, we, the USA ,will have it's first active duty troop assignment just for Americans to be protected against Americans. I'll go see if there is a news clip to link.

What I'm trying to say, America never deployed a battalion to fight Americans before....

Okay....it was here at DU............

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=196421

[elocs]

9. The only campaign that McCain has the power to suspend is his own.

That's it--no precedent, no president, just a quitter who doesn't have a clue.

[unblock]

16. yes, but the arguments could be used by others.

or by him, for that matter, should he (gasp) become president.

[liberalla]

10. color me aluminum as I had the same thought last night.

[sufrommich]

12. How does the cancellation of a debate in any way equate with

stopping people from voting in an election? Clue: it doesn't. Stop the hyperbole.

[unblock]

14. it doesn't "equate". it paves the way.

obviously, delaying or suspending or cancelling an election is a dramatically bigger thing than suspending a campaign or a debate.

but the same arguments are being made that could justify suspending an election. if we want to make sure these argument have no merit for suspending an election, then we should make sure they have no merit for suspending a campaign.

[backscatter712]

22. I've got to agree with this.

It sends the meme out there that elections are "frivolous", that the process of elections is "frivolous" and that if something urgent happens, and that our leaders have more important things to do, the elections can be postponed.

[lurky]

18. The campaign IS the democratic process (warts and all).

Voting is only the final act. To demand that we stop campaigning is to demand a suspension of the democratic process.

This sets up the idea that democracy is something that should be set aside "for the greater good" during a time of crisis. Not cool.

[The Craw]

20. That would never happen. Bush would be arrested

If Bush tried to stop the election, the House and Senate would stop him, and he'd be arrested.

[Boz]

25. Congress has the Seargent at Arms, Next thursday Bush has a COMBAT division to stop you see #11

A COMBAT division deployed for the first time ever on US SOIL in "full battle rattle" for DOMESTIC OPERATIONS including civil unrest.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7180034&mesg_id=7180332

[unblock]

26. i agree, he can't pull it off this year. not at 19% approval.

but these bastards think for the long term and we need to as well.

[treestar]

28. There is no way to cancel the election

It is provided for by the Constitution. No one has to power to cancel or suspend anything.

The campaigns are not formally part of the constitution, nor are the presently dominant parties. Any party can run a candidate and suspend their campaign - just because two parties are dominant doesn't mean anything - someday it could be the Greens against the Liberals, history shows a shift in which parties dominate.

McCant can stop running if he wants to - the election will go on. Some of those who would have voted for him will vote for him anyway, others could be turned off enough to vote not at all, for Barr or for Obama or anyone else who might be running.

[Pathwalker]

29. McCain's ads are still playing on tv here in Michigan.

They've showed them three times this am, but the fourth one stopped right in the middle of if...hmmm.