Now I understand Y people support palin

[angee_is_mad]

This OP-ED really hit home to me about miss. sarah. As a Black woman who has been marginalized and is still marginalized in life, I still couldn't understand the initial overwhelming support and idolization of palin. I wondered why people couldn't see what I was seeing. She's an IDIOT!!!!!

Ok race is an issue and will ALWAYS be an issue in my lifetime, but DAMN white people, come on! I just couldn't get me head around her and the initial reaction to her until this article by Judith Warner.

Check it out
http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/poor-sarah/?ref=opinion

[billyoc]

1. Sprio Igloo will drag McCain beneath the icy waves once and for all.

[Redstone]

2. It's always been my position that nobody who is not black cannot BEGIN to speak for

what it's like to be black in America.

Therefore, your feelings cannot be gainsaid, not by anybody with any conscience.

Redstone

[angee_is_mad]

3. There are those who try

Hell if hillary thinks she has it hard try being a Black woman for a day!

[Captain Hilts]

13. Some of these issues are individualized. It can vary...

Shirley Chisholm said it was tougher being female than being black. To be both is a double whammy.

[knowledgeispwr]

4. OK... I'll stipulate that I'm neither a woman nor white.....

I can kinda see why some people would have sympathy for her (I do not)...but I still can't wrap my head around why they'd want her as vice president.

I really don't understand the "I want someone as ignorant as me running the country" sentiment.

[Blondiegrrl]

19. I'm a white woman and I don't get it at all.

She's ignorant and dangerous. What's there to sympathize with?

:shrug:

[BrainStorm]

32. "I want someone as ignorant as me running the country" = "have a beer with"

LOL!!

This is how Dubya won. It's a skewed idea of Democracy that we all are equally competent, or "I'm as good as the next guy, so I deserve to be President." Palin really plays into that except with women this time.

[knowledgeispwr]

43. Yep, exactly.

People need to get off that fantasy about us all being equally competent. First off, 100 is the average AND the median IQ score. That means half the population has IQ scores lower than 100 . Then you add in things like education and opportunities, and you clearly have people who are much more knowledgeable and competent for running stuff. Those people are elite. So what? People need to get over their inferiority complexes.

As for Palin, hunting, being governor of a sparsely populated state (and she won the election because the incumbent was so corrupt), birthing kids, being cutesy and wearing a beehive are not qualifications for being (vice) president.

[BrainStorm]

49. When her best qualification is hunting moose, we're in trouble.

I wonder how much this is Newt trying to be relevant.

[mwb970]

109. You'll enjoy this quote from the Columbus Dispatch then.

Guard gun rights, McCain says
(Columbus Dispatch, September 28, 2008)

Most of the sportsmen interviewed at the (McCain) rally last night said they back McCain, and some, such as Columbus small-business owner Jim Anderson, don't believe Obama. "He's just reading the monitor," said Anderson, 51. "And he's doing a great job."

Others, such as Butch Reed, a Republican from Springfield, aren't yet sold on either McCain or Obama with the nation facing the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

"I'm not sure who gives us the best opportunity to get us out of the fix we're in," said Reed, 52, a concrete pre-caster.

Several sportsmen applauded McCain's pick of Palin, a hunter and a member of the National Rifle Association. "When she said she could skin a moose, that did it for me," said Roger Smithson, 66, of Leesburg in Highland County.

When I read the Smithson quote, all I could think of was "there's no fool like an old fool". Here's a man who after living for 66 years has still not learned what is important in a national leader. How can anyone stay so stupid for so long? And how many more Roger Smithsons are there out in the unenlightened countryside? (Leesburg is a town in rural NW Ohio with a population of 1253.)

[HockeyMom]

5. I think she is a dangerous, bigoted, wingnut,

flea brained woman. I am a white woman, even a "Hockey Mom". She doesn't represent me in any way other than gender. Sorry, that alone isn't enough.

[angee_is_mad]

6. Legally Blonde coming to life

in a brunette. Fortunately she won't be as lucky as Elle and people (pundits)are finally getting her number.

[BrainStorm]

90. It's already happening. Obama is winning this thing. Can't you just be happy?

Or is your anger and hatred so strong that you just need to hate white people regardless of how well Obama is doing?

[Starry Messenger]

107. I guess I missed it.

Can you please point out the hate in that post? Thanks in advance.

[Vanje]

116. Hatred? What hatred?

???? I wonder what in the world you thought you read.

[chatnoir]

124. Hatred?? Where is there hatred of white ppl anywhere in that post?

[Tigress DEM]

93. The good thing is to identify it as what it is... another fantasy that only works in the movies.

WE have SEEN what putting incompetent people in charge of high level government positions can do. But the dumb ass white repuke women watch faux and if o'lielly and handit-tome say she is smart enough to do the job that is good enough for them.

I am not black but I have never been able to identify with Palin. TO ME she is a traitor to women everywhere and a slap in the face of every woman who achieved any level of competence by the dint of hard work and not her looks and a bunch of promises she used other people's money to fulfill.

TO ME this is just like them looking for years for information about kidnapped pretty white girls with blond hair and blue eyes years after everyone knows they must be dead while down the street some mother of a beautiful black child male or female can't get a speck of justice.


THE thing about it though is the article gives an explanation for the mass hysteria/insanity of caribou barbie's appeal. WE WANT a competent woman in the highest offices in the land. WE ALMOST got Hillary. Giving us this "consolation prize" ain't going to cut it for anyone who really believes that once the race ceiling is broken the DEMS can smash the one over women's heads too.

Because the white rethug voting woman has bought a lot of crap about how God says they can't cut their hair or argue with their husbands.. etc.. the need for a vicarious victory is causing them to be delirious and hallucinate that her credentials really meet the grade.

Either that or whatever they are smoking is wicked bad, wicked bad.

[BrainStorm]

98. Like "Flashdance"?

:D

[tblue37]

118. Except that Elle Woods had a core of genuine decency and personal

honor, both of which Sarah Palin shows absolutely no sign of having.

[Cronus Protagonist]

81. "In what respect, Cherlie?"

hahaha!

[Orsino]

127. Or she's just pandering to dangerous, bigoted wingnuts.

I'm not sure how much of that church stuff she actually believes, but coincidentally or not, it turned out to be a good way to consolidate power.

I think her fundamentalism and wingnuttery are political tools. That stuff's for the rubes.

[Raschel]

7. I think the writer's reaching

I don't think it's as romantic as that.

Republicans were desperate for their own infusion of freshness, youth and excitement and glommed (I know) onto Palin because they were so excited. Here was their Obama, their very own superstar that they derided us for! Problem was, they had no idea she was totally, totally unqualified. And why would they think she was? After all, McCain's been a Washington insider forever, he has the Rovian machine at his disposal. Why would they have any reason to think that she was inadequate, a joke?

Now, due to their stubborness, their desire to win, "beat" the liberals they refuse to acknowledge that she's a joke. They celebrate her hair, clothes, legs, and make childish comments concerning her sexuality, all the while IGNORING, REFUSING to ACKNOWLEDGE her interviews and bizarre answers.
Much like John McCain refusing to ignore Obama.

And then of course, there are the bigots, who would rather vote for an inadequate person than a Black man.

[BrainStorm]

14. It depends on which angle you look at it from

Your analysis is right on from the GOP leadership's viewpoint. But from Palin's viewpoint, Warner may be onto something. She looked like a girl in her Sunday best next to the old war criminal Kissinger.

[lumpy]

65. I agree. Palin learned somewhere along the way, perhaps in

her pageant days, that being a young pretty female makes life a little easier. She has managed to carry this over into her adult life obviously. She uses her femininity as a crutch for her lack of other more heady talents. That is seen how she looked with intensity into the eyes of Karzai of Afghanistan ( and others) and how she exhibits body language. Obviously she has worked at developing a stage presence, speaking with confidence (whether meaningful dialogue or not)and presenting herself in what she believes is the best light. She trips herself up by sometimes ignoring or stretching the truth. Ultimately she has become a 'pretender' who has acted her way into someone who will not be fully appreciated but very transparent, rather like McCain himself.

[rebel with a cause]

75. As they said here when the rules came in about hiring minorities.

Better to hire a white woman than a black man. That is when a lot of women were hired in the coal mines, when it use to be a curse for a woman to go below. That was when some of the bosses started having affairs with the young pretty women they hired to work in the mines. :(

There were women who had families that needed the money who went to WORK in the mines, so don't get me wrong they deserved the job just like men. But there was also those few who got the jobs and didn't do the work. Those are the ones that remind me of palin. Also the hiring policy was still wrong.

[BrainStorm]

85. Actually, better to hire a black woman, at least in government. That counted as 2 minorities.

I had an uncle that used to work at OPM (Office of Personnel Management) in the old days and that was the rule of thumb.

[rebel with a cause]

91. Here it was white is right in most cases.

My ex was Latino and he got a job fairly easy here because there again..... To be fair, there were other minorities where he worked and he was a really good worker, came with great references. If he was as good a husband as he was an employee, I would still be married to him. ;)

[BrainStorm]

96. Well, I cannot speak to your experience nor you to mine, I suppose.

Things are different in different places.

[BrainStorm]

97. And sorry about your ex.

Sometimes things don't work out. :(

[rebel with a cause]

99. Yes, experiences are different where you live and etc.

Here some of the counties are still 98% white and although some people think things have really changed, that is because they are one of the 98%. Ignorance is bliss, I believe that is an old saying. I have no doubt that things were as you said they were where you were, and expecially with government jobs. Here it is just something else. :eyes:

As far as my ex-husband is concerned, that is just something that came about because of my bad choices. But I got two wonderful children out of the union and that made all the bad times worth it. I always laugh and say that I never celebrated my wedding anniversary, but my divorce was worth celebrating the whole year through. ;)

[angee_is_mad]

77. Similar editorial from my local paper

There seems to be a groundswell going about poor miss. sarah.

Here's the link
http://www.news-record.com/content/2008/09/26/article/kathleen_parker_palin_should_quit

[BrainStorm]

88. That link is to an article telling Palin to QUIT! (How is that "poor Sarah"?)

That's actually, "Go away Sarah."

And no, we don't want that, because Obama is winning the way things are now.

[Ilsa]

8. This democratic white woman just doesn't like her. I don't like it

when people lie or feign competence to get ahead. I had a friend who needed a job badly. She had her BBA in Management, but took on a high paying job offered to her in an Accounting Dept. She knew she couldn't handle the work. But she thought maybe she could muddle through. Her boss finally came to her and very kindly asked/told her: "You really don't know what you are doing, do you?" She left the company on good terms and went out to get her MBA.

Palin doesn't get that VP isn't a high-paid accounting job she can muddle through. Instead, it is like going from your first First Aid class to doing Brain Surgery with no experience, no dept chief looking over your shoulder. Brain surgery or an organ tranplant on the entire country. There is no way she is ready for that just having come out of First Aid class. And having loads of confidence and a competitive nature won't help her do the right thing in her job.

The Elle Woods comparison was great. She went from being a total dolt who cared nothng for academics to making a near-perfect score on her L-SAT. It is a fantasy. I guess some GOP white women believe can be a fantasy.

[Raschel]

33. "You really don't know what you are doing, do you?"

Ha ha. Just imagining an interview where someone says that to Palin. I know it will never happen...

[RichGirl]

9. It's an interesting article...but...

...it implies that Palin is a victim. She's an adult. She could have said "no". She had a great life and got greedy and grabbed too much. She didn't blink...didn't stop to think about what she was getting into. She also didn't consider the possibility that there were other women much more qualified than her. Does she even know her own party, the women in her party. Did she say "why me?" Anyway...I don't see it as "poor Sarah".

[angee_is_mad]

15. Our society value stupidity over intellect

It's a shame but true. Look at bush, mclame and miss. sarah.You can be stupid, but with the RIGHT connections you can be the leader of the Free World.
If you are intellectually gifted, you have to dumb it down to be accepted.
God Bless America!

[BrainStorm]

29. I agree with you here.

And that's the problem with the Democrats. We have smart guys like Gore, Kerry and Obama. In the past, these types have lost to dumber more pleasant seeming guys. I am hoping this year will be the exception. That is why I am happy that Obama was more direct in the debates and sounded less like a professor than usual. He was less theoretical and more direct. I thought he was well prepared for the debate.

[tblue37]

119. That is so true. My daughter, who is strikingly brilliant, learned to wear the

dumbed down mask so efficiently to get along in high school that for years I couldn't even have an intelligent conversation with her, because she never "dropped character."

This very intelligent girl--a medical doctor and a Fulbright scholar with a Master's in Social Policy from University College in Dublin, sounded like the typical shallow popular girl until maybe two years ago. (I think being in Ireland for the year of her Fulbright helped a lot, because they don't value shallowness and stupidity in other countries the way so many Americans do.) Besides being brilliant, she is also very pretty, but she was not at all popular until she started deliberately acting shallow (around 10th grade).

It also helps, I think, that she became engaged to a Frenchman (now her husband) whom she met while in Ireland on her Fulbright Fellowship. He is smart and values her intelligence, and now all the people (doctors from her residency program) that she socializes with are also smart, so she doesn't have to play dumb any more. But it has taken a while for her to drop the mask.

[Rabrrrrrr]

121. Was your daughter on Jeopardy?

Recently there was a woman (either this season, or else I saw it on the rerun from last season - I watch it twice a day, so I get confused as to who is this year's and who was last year's) on the show from the US who had a French husband she met in Ireland while studying there.

[tblue37]

122. No, she wasn't. Maybe a lot of American women go to Ireland and

find Frenchmen to marry. LOL

[Rabrrrrrr]

123. One never knows! Could be the best kept secret about Ireland...

:rofl:

[BlueJazz]

10. I wish more people were like myself.

I pay no attention to Sex. (male or female)
I pay VERY little attention to race....maybe 1% ...and that's being hard on myself.
I had great parents.

[BrainStorm]

61. Ok, your sig line is funny!

LOL! :D

[BlueJazz]

111. I got it off of a bumper sticker.

:)

[Cleita]

11. I dunno. If I had the opportunity to get that close to Kissinger. I might

have asked him how he felt about overthrowing a democracy in the country of my birth, Chile, and replacing it with a non-democratic, unelected dictator who proceeded to conduct the torture and genocide of citizens who disagreed with him? How will that experience teach me any diplomacy at all? But it only proves that Governor Palin doesn't know about these historical incidents when she meets a person involved in creating the history to be able to ask him the question.

[BrainStorm]

62. Yeah, but you and I wouldn't have gotten past the front door.

Kissinger is a war criminal plain and simple.

[BrainStorm]

12. Angee, not everything is about race. Palin's devotees see themselves in her.

That is what Warner's blog is about. Devotee, BTW, is the female gender in French (double ee) and I am using it that way.

I agree with Redstone that white people don't know what it is like to be black. But Angee, you don't necessarily know what it is like to be a working class white woman either. The best we can do is try to understand each other and not be so quick to judge.

[Balderdash]

17. Wow! Ditto! nt

[angee_is_mad]

18. People who see themselves in palin

are dominately white, I feel. I know that as a BLACK woman, I sure as hell don't see myself in her, but then I am a democrat.

Sorry if my post made you uncomfortable. The subject of race tend to do that for some people.

[ailsagirl]

20. I'm glad you posted-- thank you

[BrainStorm]

22. You didn't make me uncomfortable at all, Angee; But I think I make you uncomfortable

because I don't buy into the argument that everything is race. There are some things that are and some things that aren't.

Let's try a thought experiment: if Obama were white, would you be as dedicated to him winning this election?

[angee_is_mad]

23. Most definitely, w/o question

would you?

[BrainStorm]

25. Would I support Obama as hard if he were white? Sure.

But I bet that there are many here at DU who would support Palin if she had the same level of inexperience but were black and Democrat. I probably wouldn't and then I'd be called a racist.

[firedupdem]

31. I wouldn't support sarah under any circumstance! Believe that!

[angee_is_mad]

34. Thank you sista

Thank you.

[BrainStorm]

36. Firedupdem spoke her true opinion. I don't think you have, Angee.

That's the difference.

[BrainStorm]

35. I believe you, firedupdem. Neither would I.

But there is far more of a chance of being called racist for supporting a clearly unqualified minority male or female if they are Democrats. That is why I think some of the folks who are angry at an unqualified WHITE GOP Palin might actually defend an unqualified BLACK Democratic Palin.

I don't support Palin, never supported Bush, and am not thrilled about ANYONE who is unqualified or lacks experience.

[firedupdem]

39. can you give me an example? I just tried to think of one and I can't/

I can remember Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton "running for president"...I don't recall them getting much support. I really don't want this conversation to go in the wrong direction. I don't know of any black candidate that was as inexperienced as sarah in position to become a heart beat away from the presidency.

[BrainStorm]

42. That's why the situation was a "thought experiment." A hypothetical.

I am not thinking of specific candidates at all.

[tblue37]

120. Do you see Black women running to support Cynthia McKinney against

anyone? And McKinney, besides being Black and female, is also competent and shares our values. Yet most of the Balck women now supporting Obama were not supporting McKinney prior to Obama's nomination and are not supporting her now. It seems to me that competence and charisma, not race, are the drawing cards for Obama, even with Black women.

[Kind of Blue]

103. That is why I think some of the folks who are angry at an unqualified WHITE GOP Palin might actually

Wow, that's a pretty blanket statement. I'm a black woman and my first choice of a nominee was John Edwards. I thought he was qualified, spoke to issue I'm concerned, like his style. Sure, I thought Obama was charismatic but I didn't know enough about him. From what I remembered at the beginning of the primaries many, many, many blacks were not for Obama because most of us are/were Clinton lovers and certainly felt loyal. Obama didn't win over 99% of blacks just because he's black. He had to prove himself to everybody.

[angee_is_mad]

38. Blacks been voting white

since they could vote. That is not an issue. If you remember, when Obama announced that he was running, hillary had the majority of the black vote in the polls. I had fights with my own family about being an Obama supporter.
Even though they knew Obama was qualified for the job, they didn't believe white people would vote for him. Iowa turned that completely around and they had faith that Americans (of all races) would vote for Barack Obama in spite of him being Black!

[BrainStorm]

45. But you asked me the question, so I answered it.

I am sure there was worry about Obama not being "electable" and also being a target for white supremacist assassins. (I still worry about that one, but not as much any more.)

But we're in different times now, too. The younger generation is more open and hopefully they'll remember to vote.

[angee_is_mad]

50. Iowa showed that

particularly to older black people who remember segregation and who vote faithfully every election cycle.

The younger generation knew this before Iowa, and were cautiously optimistic, but our parents and grandparents were not because of past disappointments.

[BrainStorm]

53. Disappointment and fear, I'd say.

There was a lot to be afraid of if you go by the past.

[Raineyb]

51. Exactly!

And I didn't see people having a hard time with 80+% of black people voting for the white Democratic candidate in past elections either.

I have grown tired of people implying that black people are voting for Obama just because he's black. The historical evidence just doesn't point that way. It sounds like a fair bit of projection on some people's part.

Regards

[angee_is_mad]

55. When you r asked how you would vote

if Barack was white, your answer is questioned. You don't know me or what is in my heart or mind,please.
This isn't directed toward you Raineyb, and thanks for the great post.

[BrainStorm]

57. Do you think I wouldn't vote for Obama if he were white?

I'm just trying to understand what the question is.

[BrainStorm]

56. But lots of people are saying that whites are voting for Palin because she is white

And that isn't true either. The motivations behind voting are complex. That's what this article is trying to show. (the one in the OP)

Look at how many whites are voting for Obama! If whites were racist en masse, Obama would not have made it through the primaries. And clearly, lots of white women are voting for Obama too.

I think the Palin thing is more a case of GOP politics, the Christian right, and the "have a beer with" factor. Race may underlie some of the motivation but not all of it.

[Raineyb]

66. Well then I guess you know how it feels

There's only one slight problem with your complaint. Historically speaking, blacks have voted for white candidates. White folk on the other hand, not so much. There are people who do not want to vote for a black man. Some of them were even so bold as to say so to pollsters and I don't think that all of these people are strictly GOP. Palin gives the so-called Democrats who don't want to vote for Obama an excuse so they don't have to say "I won't vote for a black man" it gives some people the excuse that they could vote for a woman Vice-President. Never mind that the woman in question is an unqualified barbie doll with the IQ of a dust mite.

Now if this offends you it should, such blatant tokenism is always offensive. But merely questioning people for potentially voting for the Republican ticket for truly offensive and wrong reasons? What do you want me to do pretend it's not an issue? I can no more do that then pretend that Obama's election will make this country a "post-racial" one. I deal with reality I look at all possibilities whether they make some people uncomfortable or not.

Regards

[BrainStorm]

71. I said nothing about feelings at all. Just some facts.

Your post is about history and mine is about facts from 2008: clearly many whites are voting for Obama: he is ahead in the polls. He is winning white men and white women in every age group except seniors. This is good news.

And if you read my other posts, I am not denying at all that there is racism. Not at all. But what Warner's article is saying is that some white GOP women and some independents identify with Palin. This can happen even if they like Obama and aren't racist. White GOP women will identify with white GOP women, and for many, this affects their vote. This is not because they hate black people: it's because they see themselves in Palin. That's a very powerful thing.

What Warner points out is that even some liberal women, like herself, will identify with Palin. This does not mean she will vote for Palin: Warner will be voting for Obama. But she feels a sense of identification which, for some women, translates into a vote. For her it doesn't. But that doesn't mean that all the women who vote for Palin are racists.

[Raineyb]

112. If one does not learn from history one is doomed to repeat it

That is the problem with Americans. A large number of us seem to be under the impression that history doesn't matter and the present happens in a vacuum. History tells me not to bust open the champagne until after the polls that matter close, that would be the actual polls on November 4th.

We're talking about choosing the leader of our country. Identifying with them is not a legitimate reason for voting for them. You are not saying that voting for someone who represents the opposite of what you believe because they look like you is an acceptable reason to vote for someone are you? I haven't had the luxury of finding someone who looks like me make it to the general election before but I can tell you this, you couldn't just put any old person up there and expect me to vote for them. I don't consider Clarence Thomas an acceptable Supreme Court Justice. McLame couldn't choose Michael Steel as his running mate and get me to vote for that ticket because what they stand for is the opposite of what I stand for. I don't consider identification with someone a reason to vote for someone but rather an excuse to vote against someone else.

If that offends, well then it offends but that's what I think. Frankly, I find that the outcry only becomes louder as I get closer to the truth. Only the guilty minded protest that much.

Regards

[Balderdash]

80. That can't be true.

Voters breakdown pretty evenly along party lines and then you have Independents. The way the numbers look Obama is getting all the Democrat vote and a lot of the Independent and even some of the Republican vote. So you're basically talking about Republican women.

I honestly don't know why there is so much upset about race, Obama is kicking ass.

[BrainStorm]

83. Exactly. This election is such GOOD news when it comes to race in America

Even 10 years ago this never could have happened.

[rebel with a cause]

94. I am white and if Obama were white I would still be dedicated to him.

Whether or not I would have ever met him is another question, because his name caught my interest and that is what got me started working for him. Also, if he had been white, they would not have needed someone like me volunteering for him because all the people would have been breaking down the doors to work for him if he had been white.

Unlike what you think, everything is about race/ethnicity when you are not white. You often have to consider it in everything you do. This is a part of what "white privilege" is all about. You and I don't have to consider these things. Oh, and before someone jumps on the "this is all about white guilt" thing. White privilege does not equal white guilt. It is the difference in the way we experience life.

[BrainStorm]

95. No one is denying that racism exists. But what I am saying is that we have a black candidate who is

WINNING!

Maybe it's time to start viewing this country, and whites, a bit differently. Twenty years ago, a black man would never have won the candidacy of a major party and would certainly not be winning. How about you celebrate that instead going so negative?

[rebel with a cause]

101. I am not negative. I am being realistic and live in a world where

racism is still prominent. Whites should be judged like everyone else, by the way they treat other people. And part of that is understanding that everyone is not like you and does not see the world the way you do, and not punish them when they do not.

I celebrate Barack's position and I will celebrate even more if he wins in November. But when I have to hear people say they will never vote for a Black man, then I have to know that all is not well in the world. When I have to fear that people in certain areas will do something to my son because he is not white enough for them, then I know that all is not well in this world. When my daughter has to be afraid of putting an Obama sticker on her car, then I know all is not well in this world. My world is not negative, my world is one of being careful and hoping for the best.

[rebel with a cause]

92. I don't think many women see themselves in her unless they

are ditzy. She is not an average white working woman. Trust me, I have been that and she has nothing in common with me or anyone I knew while a working woman. She reminds me more of the woman who gets through life on her looks, never has to worry about knowing what they should know, because all they have to do is bat their eyes or give a little giggle and their lack of knowledge is overlooked. The country/folksy charm is another way of getting around knowing anything and give country/small town people a bad name.

[seabeyond]

16. i look at the picture of kissinger and his face, and i see an ugly old man

laughing at her.

i just hate that they got away with doing this.

that picture is just pathetic

[BrainStorm]

26. I see a war criminal that bombed Cambodia and killed innocent people.

I also see L. Paul Bremer's mentor.

And absolute unbridled piece of crap.

[firedupdem]

21. I don't like injecting race into many issues here, I wouldn't give

a shit if they picked Oprah for VP. I would have said...okay..she has a talk show she's not qualified to be VP. I don't get how people identify with a gender or race and wing it from there when it comes to running this country. That woman is not qualified and I don't care who identifies with her. She's a horrible mother, mean spirited woman who had no problem thrusting herself and her family in the national spot light for power and political gain. She knew she wasn't qualified and knew she was being used and she's allowing it. I have no compassion for her. I know she would have none for me. We all make choices in life. I have had to wonder if a certain job was going to interfere with my role as a mother even though the money would have been great! Fuck Sarah Palin!

[BrainStorm]

24. I wouldn't have wanted Oprah for Veep either!

Or Kelly Ripa or Ellen. And I love Ellen and think she's cute as hell, but no. Not Veep. Condi Rice is more qualified to be Veep than any of these women and more qualified than most men, but I am happy we are not running against McCain/Rice.

[firedupdem]

27. I will never ever understand how people identify with that nut...

and even if you do identify with her.....do you really want her leading the country? I think NOT!!

[BrainStorm]

37. Well, probably neither you nor I, firedupdem, have killed a moose.

And I have much more education than Palin. So I guess that lets me out of identifying with her. :)

[firedupdem]

44. You are right...we're over qualified! n/t

[BrainStorm]

46. LOL!!!!!!!!! (Or we gotta kill us a moose.)

:rofl:

[angee_is_mad]

30. over her head, but she made her bed

and now she has to lay in it.

Biden need to come out with guns blazing on Thursday.
No matter what he does, the repubs are going to call him sexist, so he need to go for the jugular.

[BrainStorm]

40. Biden has to be careful. Going for the jugular could backfire.

All he really needs to do is let her destroy herself.

[Raschel]

130. I agree. I don't understand the victim thing

Palin is not a victim. She has a big mouth, and if the shoe were on the other foot she'd be out there in every state and on TV deriding Obama day and nite. She did it when she first took the podium at the RNC and she thought she would have a free ride. Just insult people and sneer and use cliches.

She doesn't half half of the education or intelligence that he does and she had the nerve to call him naive the other nite. What a laugh. I can't stand her and I'll be glad to see her run off crying. It will bode well for our nation, perhaps nobody will ever attempt this insanity ever again.

[jillan]

28. Very interesting article. I too, have thought that McCain picking her was an

act of cruelty.

Don't get me wrong - personally I can't stand this woman and what she stands for - but -
there she was in Alaska doing her thing. McCain clearly picked her for a position which she is not qualified. She is now the laughing stock of America - and probably the world. She the butt of many jokes. After Nov 5th, she will never be able to go back to her old life and have things the way they were before. By picking her, McCain ruined her.

I also have to wonder, did he ruin it for other women who want to run for President one day?
Hillary cracked the glass ceiling, and Sarah Palin sealed off some of those cracks.

[BrainStorm]

47. I don't think he really thought how it would affect her.

I think in the end it's cruel, but I don't think anyone thought about her at all as a person. Newt wanted to become relevant again with a protege, the GOP wanted to energize the Christian right base, and McCain really wanted Lieberman but got forced into accepting Palin. And Palin was just not savvy enough to turn it down.

[Tatiana]

52. Interesting comments.

Hillary's extraordinary run really opened up opportunities for women in terms of running for President. She earned women a great deal of respect by the way she dispatched male after male during the primaries. And then along comes Palin, the first female on the Republican ticket, who is the butt of every late night talk show. Not only that, but she's also embarrassed her state of Alaska. Alaskans have got to be shouting "we're NOT this dumb! Really, we're not!" As Palin is the "last woman standing" on a Presidential ticket, so to speak, is that an impression of women that's going to be left in voters' minds?

I hope not.

[Kind of Blue]

104. Hi, Pirhana. I don't think it's ruined it for a woman to run again

for president because I think this situation is uniquely Palin's. I don't think McCain ruined Palin. She was already a vindictive and shallow woman before he picked her. I guess like attracts like. Her current status, as the butt of jokes, is because of her arrogant, non-blinking acceptance for vp. She shouldn't be able to go back to her old life-as-usual because she should be held accountable for nasty-ass policies and being such a pathological liar. Her pick and crazy Republican adoration shows how desperate it is for women to have even more role models in politics, especially in the republican party.

[Raschel]

131. HA! Hillary (and others) cracked the ceiling and Palin is the caulk!

Palin is DAP for women.

[BlooInBloo]

41. Yup - just like those Clinton supporters who were oh-so concerned about sexism....

Supporting McKinney en masse.

Or not.

:rofl:

[BrainStorm]

48. Huh?

:wtf:

[Tatiana]

54. Ask yourself if these people would be as excited if Condi was the VP nominee.

I doubt it...

[angee_is_mad]

58. Great point

and had a special needs baby at home being taken care of by God knows who and also had an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter.

condi would have to turn in her GOP pass.

[BrainStorm]

60. If you see everything through a strictly racial lens, you miss a lot of complexity.

I am not denying the racists are out there and are nasty as all hell. They are. I just think there are lots of different issues that play a part.

[Raineyb]

68. You seem determined to ignore the role race plays in this country

Perhaps you should read this article it may help you understand why that's not possible at least not until we are all truly treated equally.

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1755

Regards

[BrainStorm]

69. Not at all. But nor do I think race is everything. You miss a lot of complexity

and a lot about the motivations of people.

I'll say it again: the very fact that Obama is a candidate and the frontrunner indicates that much of this country is not racist. Clearly, many people are NOT voting based on race, or every white person would be voting for McCain.

[BrainStorm]

59. The Christian right wouldn't be excited at all. (Condi is not married, no kids, possibly gay)

The hawks might be very excited. The portion of the GOP who wanted to separate itself from Bush would be in despair.

I don't know how much race would play a part.

[Tatiana]

67. And Palin has a pregnant teenaged daughter having sex before marriage.

Why does Palin get a pass?

Or Lindsay Graham?

[BrainStorm]

70. You missed the point of my answer. You asked what would happen if Condi were the VP candidate

and I told you what I thought. The Christian right would be disappointed and maybe stay home, the hawks would be happy but the McCain campaign, eager to keep a distance from the Bush administration, would be in despair.

This has nothing to do with Palin at all.

[Tatiana]

78. And you missed MY point. The Christian right should be equally disappointed in Palin's family

values. The fact that they overlook her "failings" says something.

[BrainStorm]

82. Well, let's go back to my point first, and do me the politeness of acknowledging it

Then, I'll address yours. You made a comment about Condi, and I replied to it. Do you disagree with my take on Condi?

[Tatiana]

100. Personally, I do not think the right-wingers would be happy never mind excited over Condi.

Even though Condi is infinitely more qualified for VP than Palin and espouses the right-wing point of view more succinctly than does Palin.

And I'll raise you one - I don't think the Republicans would ever have nominated Colin Powell as a Presidential candidate. Even Pre-Dubya.

[angee_is_mad]

114. Mrs. Powell thought so too

when there was talk of him running for president years ago, his wife shot that down real quick. She felt that the country wasn't ready for a Black President then and worried about his safety.
Now we ARE and I know when the Powell's go in the voting booth they are going to pull the lever for Barack Obama.

[nam78_two]

63. Perhaps if there weren't serious issues threatening our country

and needing serious attention, I could dredge up some interest in this sort of personal soap opera/sob-story, but honestly I don't give a rat's ass about this fairly privileged person's internal tumult etc.

There are people in this country losing their homes and retirements, there are tent cities sprouting up all over the country as people become homeless, there is the ever growing worry of climate change, the poorest people all over the world are dropping further into poverty and starvation due to the food crisis..At this point Gov Palin's tender little internal musings do not interest or concern me.

The sloppy, maudlin tone of that article and the faux tragedy disgusts me...If she feels that way, she could have declined the offer to be vp. Perhaps if she seemed to be an even somewhat compassionate or empathetic person I could choke up some sympathy. As it is, this article is incredibly phony and absurd. That whole article is the kind of loathesome political fluff I hate-at a time like this she chooses to view this through the lens of "Legally Blonde", "Bridget Jones" etc.? Idiot...:eyes:
At any rate this is the right person to write about this idiotic woman and this absurd campaign. Caveat: I have no idea who Judith Warner is and maybe she has done good work before etc. but this article is pure, unmitigated garbage.

As far as I am concerned, Gov Palin can feel free to go fuck herself..or Todd Palin..or Greg Whatsisface, but ideally I hope not this country.

[angee_is_mad]

64. Obviously saying NO isn't in her vocabulary

Hope that wasn't sexist. I think tod want to be president and want to use sarah to get there. Is that the reason he is always with her on the stump?

[BrainStorm]

73. Would you turn down a promotion if it were offered to you?

It would be hard, especially if big named people were pushing you to take it. For Palin, McCain and Newt Gingrich and James Dobson among many others, were pushing her to take the nomination. Yes, she could have turned it down, but that might have hurt her political career. Neither of us knows what pressure was brought to bear.

[Raineyb]

115. It would depend on whether the promotion fit in with what I wanted in my life

This woman turned down running for Senate because she'd have to live in Washington DC. She could have said no. My guess is that her lust for power got the better of her.

Regards

[BrainStorm]

72. Actually, Palin did not write the article. The maudlin tone comes from the journalist.

And I agree that with all the problems we have facing the country, Warner's feelings are not so important. But what Warner is trying to get a handle on is why some women would vote for a woman who is seriously underqualified. And she comes up with an answer.

[nam78_two]

74. I was referring to the writer's tone (and simultaneously expressing my disdain for Palin).nt

[BrainStorm]

84. Well, you needed to separate those two, because your post confused the two.

Writer-based prose will always get you into trouble. You need to think about your reader.

[Raschel]

133. Thank you for summing up my feelings so well on the article

That whole article is the kind of loathesome political fluff I hate-at a time like this she chooses to view this through the lens of "Legally Blonde", "Bridget Jones" etc.? Idiot

[kerry-is-my-prez]

76. I'll feel sorry for her if she makes a complete fool of herself in the debates - I guess.

I'm not entirely sure if she still has gotten that she's way in over her head yet.... There are still a lot of people around her that are building her up and idolizing her, etc. She probably has moments of self-doubt - but then she has all of her fans who tell her how wonderful she is.

[Raschel]

134. Why - I don't get it

Why would you feel sorry for her. She doesn't give a rat's butt about our country or you. She wants this position whether she's qualified for it or not. She knows she's not qualified. Did you see her chest heave during the TV interviews? She's pooping her pants. (along with McCain) What the hell.

It's no different if you got a call one nite when you were in your kitchen and you turned to your family and said, "GUESS WHAT!! THEY'VE ASKED ME TO RUN FOR VP!!!" and your kids and husband, or wife, said "COOL MOM! THAT'S THE BOMB - will we get to live in the White House? Awesome!!

Would you try to bluff the nation at the expense of your country, your running mate? If you did, I would have no sympathy for you whatsoever.

[Zomby Woof]

79. Must text messaging ruin everything?

Can't "why" just be "why"? Are we really that lazy? Excuse me, I mean "R WE"?

[FlyingSquirrel]

87. See my response below :-)

[FlyingSquirrel]

86. I thought you were referring to the Y chromosome.

:D

[BrainStorm]

89. A new euphemism for males? "Y people"

LOL!!!!

[gingersnaps1]

102. I agree with the last line of the article.

It is really cruel to put this woman thru this. John McCain is a bastard. Sarah Palin is woefully outta her league and I for one cannot fathom the hate that is going to come her way when she returns to her job as Gov. of Alaska. Ii thin this may be her first and last term as Gov. of that state.

[Kind of Blue]

105. Nobody is putting Sarah through this but Sarah. She is determined,

ambitious, vindictive, and on a mission from her god. Those are the qualities that appeal to those women who don't see her as dangerous. It's just unfortunate, for her, that she can't see passed her own delusion of being qualified.

[Raschel]

135. She's no victim

This poor Sarah thing is what will excuse her ignorance and carry her to the White House. I'm not giving her an inch.

[Kind of Blue]

137. Not an inch!

Besides being utterly unqualified, and even if she was qualified, I don't understand why the simple notion of separation of church and state is not in play, thereby kicking her to the curb immediately.

[Raineyb]

113. I think it's worse what he did to the country

I've done more contemplation buying a pair of shoes than this man did vetting this woman. If he does so little homework picking a VP God only knows what other off the cuff decisions he'll make. We don't need an inveterate gambler playing games with the country.

I shan't waste time feeling sorry for Mrs. Palin. Stupidity and power hunger is a nasty combination if she had a lick of sense she would have told McLoser "Thanks but no thanks."

Regards

[Kind of Blue]

136. Okay, I see your point.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you think that McGramp's decision from the get-go is what's bad for the country, that it's cruel of him to put us through this, not Sarah. If so, I Totally agree.

[olegramps]

106. Barbie and Ken

When I see Sarah and Todd, I can only think of how their shallowness reflects the plastic Barbie and Ken dolls. Little more than plastic brainless dolls that you dress to play a role. No substance, just flash, nice teeth and hair. Very re-mindful of Reagan, a man of no substance. He was nothing more than a second rate actor whose greatest role was playing president. Good looks, charm and a well written script. Nothing more. What a contrast to men like Roosevelt and Truman, not to mention Eisenhower, the last decent Republican to grace the office. When I see a gathering of the two or three percent of Republicans who actually rule the party they remind me of a room full of Barbie and Ken dolls buying access to the office of the president for a mere $25,000 dollar donation. Tittering about how crude the working class Democrats are as they sasha among the throng in their designer dresses, Italian silk suits and McCain $500.00 dollar loafers. Can you imagine having to actually work for a living? How drap.

[Frumious B]

108. There is a certain stripe of religious fundamentalist who is utterly out of touch with reality.

They have bailed on the rational world to the point that they would probably vote for a burger flipper who happened to share their religious beliefs.

[workinclasszero]

110. Failin Palin, the gift that keeps on giving!

Thanks McBush for proving to the country how lousy your judgment really is!

[ismnotwasm]

117. Damn.

(This in response to certain comments up thread) I can't stand that women to the point of irrationality. She horrifies me. She has no business even being looked at for VP.

But I don't think "pretty" got her to being mayor or Governor. There are plenty of attractive ambitious women. Plenty of unattractive ambitious women. The US ranks 69th (no puns please) with women in Government. An abysmal record. Fucking Rwanda is putting itself back together in large part by women who survived a genocide. Make up half the Parliament now. They picked up the pieces--pretty faces or not-- and went to work. Capable and strong.

I do agree with the article about the overwhelmed, working woman point, that just may be part of it. I think racism is part of it. And I think relating to another, non-threatening idiot is part of it, because unless you're out of your rabbit ass mind, you can see the walking national disaster this women represents.

[qwlauren35]

The last paragraph sums it up...

"Frankly, I’ve come to think, post-Kissinger, post-Katie-Couric, that Palin’s nomination isn’t just an insult to the women (and men) of America. It’s an act of cruelty toward her as well."
~~~~~~~~

I think it's okay to feel sorry for her.
:nopity:

At this point, I actually do. She's a very ambitious woman, and she's doing her damnest to turn a pair of 2's and 3 spades into a winning poker hand with the best bluff she can come up with.

But sometimes, you need to fold. And if the stakes of the game are more than you make in a year... you need to say "Thanks, but No Thanks."

I no longer think that having a governor on the ticket is an automatic advantage.

[LWolf]

125. My initial reaction was one of rage.

I don't buy the reasoning in the article. I see where it might be legitimate for those with limited understanding, with limited information, vision...

If HRC had been nominated, McCain would have selected a black vp. The republicans were poised to take advantage of the party-dividing race/gender wars in the Democratic primaries no matter which candidate won.

I'm not a fan of Obama. Or HRC. Yet I'm a staunch supporter of equal rights. While I didn't want either of them to be president, I'm also well aware of their respective strengths, and I respect them for those strengths.

I was an undecided voter, having been left behind last January by the Democratic Party, until the Palin pick. The idea that the first woman president might be a such a woman was enough to put me in the Obama camp.

The Republican Party is making a mockery of equal rights, and of women's rights, with the pick of Palin.

I don't feel sorry for her.

[Top Cat]

126. Non - Blacks cannot begin to know what we have and are still going through...

[treestar]

128. I read that article and i still don't understand

I don't identify with Barack obama, I could not imagine being that smart and that confident. If that article is correct, I can identify with Phailin. And I don't think she or I should be President/VP.

[eleny]

129. "I'm Sarah Palin and you're not"

Having worked with people who have more cunning than intellect, that's what I see when I look at the photograph. So I disagree with Judith Warner. Sarah Palin was having the time of her life in a photo op with Henry Kissinger even if he was just taking one for the team.

[crazy_vanilla]

132. inner Elle Woods?!?!

not so sure ... In the beginning, I took Palin seriously and was chilled by her, now, she is old news to me and I hardly notice her anymore.

[TheKentuckian]

138. Anyone that feels bad for Palin under almost any circumstances

is a sap.

Just think about a 13 year old girl you care about being molested by a close family member and being forced by "poor Sarah" to carry the fetus to term.

Just picture her shooting an exhausted, confused, scared, and hungry wolf and hacking off its limb for her bounty.

Think about the polar bears.

Think about her daughter being forced into a shotgun marriage, probably in another McShame political distraction.

Think about how this woman feels about the Union.


FUCK SARAH PALIN!!!

I felt sorry for King Kong and Frankenstein but this monster makes me want to vomit. I think she's a piece of shit that becomes more of a threat with each day she's not run from the national stage.

Are people insane? This chick knows less about world affairs than the average nightly news viewer and she running for the White House. A brainfart of a person who's son is about to be deployed to Iraq and the Governor of an entire state and she says out of the gate that she hasn't thought about the Iraq War, and anyone that is supposedly sane thinks she shouldn't be run back to at most the rock she must have came from underneath?