I can't believe some of the babyish reactions I've read here today about Bill on MTP

[mtnsnake]

On MTP this morning, Bill Clinton painted a wonderful picture of Obama being an intelligent, inspiring, charismatic, and hard working politician who is READY to lead this country, and Bill also added that Obama will get even better after he's in office.

WTF do some of you want President Clinton to do, wrap Barack in his arms and slip him a little tongue on national TV to prove how much he loves him? Grow the fuck up and stop with your selfish attacks on a man who is supporting Obama in a very presidential manner. The man is a former PRESIDENT for chrise sakes. He isn't going to GUSH over ANYONE in the manner you would like. Jayeeeeesus!!

[BlooInBloo]

1. You fail worse than the Clintons fail. And Obama will win.

[mtnsnake]

3. On DU, your hatred wins. YOUR hatred.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Obama's still gonna win, and will be President for 8 years.

[mtnsnake]

13. No shit. I've started more threads in support of Obama than all your threads put together

I think Obama is WONDERFUL, and I've got the threads and posts to prove it. All you've got to prove is how much you hate the Clintons by saying "Obama is going to be president for 8 years, as if I'm against that or something. Move the fuck on.

[BlooInBloo]

14. Really?

[mtnsnake]

16. Yes really

Any other questions?

[BlooInBloo]

18. Nope - that about covers it - thanks!

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alexander]

84. I see you haven't read the rules about accusing people of being freepers.

Or maybe you did and you just don't care.

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. Who's Bill?

:shrug:

[Liberal Veteran]

4. I would be happy if the man just showed some enthusiasm for Obama.

[Cheap_Trick]

6. and a little less towards McCain....

[Starlight]

37. Seems like a reasonable expectation, doesn't it?

:shrug:

[Balderdash]

69. How many times in the debate did Obama say

"John is right" You think the Obama campaign might have a strategy, even one that you don't understand but one that is clearly working?

[ChiciB1]

82. According To A Person Who Called Me Today From Obama Campaign

asking me to donate money, he said the debate went EXACTLY as they planned. I asked him about why the Keating mess hasn't been talked about and he said... it's coming.

He also said their internals show Florida turning BLUE!

That's all I know!

[QC]

92. Some people play chess, others play checkers.

And our resident campaign strategists fingerpaint with their own shit.

[jbnow]

99. "John is right" was said about half dozen times

but always just a starting point and never simple agreement. It was effective part of making his point

Well, I think Senator McCain's absolutely right that we need more responsibility,
but we need it not just when there's a crisis...

and then he went on to talk about the "years in which the reigning economic ideology has been what's good for Wall Street"

Well, Senator McCain is absolutely right that the earmarks process has been abused (snip)And he's also right that oftentimes lobbyists and special interests are the ones that are introducing these kinds of requests, although that wasn't the case with me.

But let's be clear: Earmarks account for $18 billion in last year's budget. Senator McCain is proposing -- and this is a fundamental difference between us -- $300 billion in tax cuts to some of the wealthiest corporations and individuals in the country, $300 billion...

It's good Obama agrees with not abusing earmarks and especially the lobbyist/special interest part.

Now, John mentioned the fact that business taxes on paper are high in this country, and he's absolutely right.
Here's the problem: There are so many loopholes that have been written into the tax code, oftentimes with support of Senator McCain, that we actually see our businesses pay effectively one of the lowest tax rates in the world...

It was important to affirm what McCain had said because it's true and we always hear it but the key is what Obama then gets into

Senator McCain is absolutely right that the violence has been reduced as a consequence of the extraordinary sacrifice of our troops and our military families.
They have done a brilliant job, and General Petraeus has done a brilliant job. But understand, that was a tactic designed to contain the damage of the previous four years of mismanagement of this war.

And so John likes -- John, you like to pretend like the war started in 2007. You talk about the surge. The war started in 2003, and at the time when the war started, you said it was going to be quick and easy. You said we knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong....

Always good to praise the military...and then he got into that nice attacks

you're absolutely right that presidents have to be prudent in what they say.
But, you know, coming from you, who, you know, in the past has threatened extinction for North Korea and, you know, sung songs about bombing Iran, I don't know, you know, how credible that is...

Good one-agree with John and then use his own point against him...

The fact that the media is too dense to notice how the agreements were used to further his own point... oh well

I think Obama polled so high and got such positive responses live (you know the live feedback where they show the response lines) even when he hit John with these things was because he led into it so nicely.
When McCain got into his Obama doesn't understand crap his lines went way down, even with republicans. He went down with his attacks.

Independents liked Obama (their lines often went higher than the Dem lines did). They did not like McCain.

I think the Obama campaign might have a strategy.

[Carolina]

77. exactly

the sincerity with which he praises Mccain versus the forced "I'll do whatever I'm asked" (rather than I'll do everything possible) to help Obama is so obvious.

[mtnsnake]

7. That's fair

but some of the other reactions about Clinton are just hate-filled bullshit. Clinton was just fine on MTP. He built Obama up in MOST voters' eyes. It was clear who he thinks should be the next president of this country, Barack Obama.

[Cheap_Trick]

5. Who is chrise?

[Liberal Veteran]

68. That's the blond from Three's Company.

[Tatiana]

8. Actually, I just want Bill to go away. We should keep Hills, she's great.

But Bill should just disappear.

It is clear to me that he still holds some sort of personal dislike for Obama (perhaps because he feel his own reputation was tarnished by Obama), whereas it is also clear to me that Hillary and Obama had a relationship before their presidential races and that relationship has allowed them to mend fences.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. Actually, he gushes over McCain in a manner I'd like him to gush over Obama.

If Hillary can manage to talk Obama up then so should Bill.

[mtnsnake]

11. Brokaw asked him what he thought of McCain. Bill responded in a presidential manner

Then he went on to express his utmost preference for Obama to be the next president. Bill isn't going to call McCain an asshole. They're friends from way back.

[Hippo_Tron]

12. I can't fathom how they could be friends after that tasteless joke McCain made about Chelsea

But whatever...

[msallied]

24. Because above everything else, Bill cares about Bill.

[Cirque du So-What]

30. It's the same ability to engage in doublethink

that allowed McAnus to embrace Chimpolini onstage. Self-interest was more important than Herr Roverer planting stories in South Carolina that McAnus had fathered an African American child, who was now part of their household. It's not too far off from being a sociopath - this 'ends justify the means' mentality that allows them to utterly disregard the feelings of family members in the name of personal political gain.

[msallied]

34. You nailed it. And beautifully.

Bill Clinton is no altruist. He's a sociopath of the highest order. People are quick to forgive or engage in cognitive dissonance simply because he was a "Democrat." As Michael Moore said, Bill Clinton was the best Republican president we had in a generation.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

15. A little tongue? ROFL

Folks on both sides are still sensitive, old wounds and all. I do think that if Bill is going to be out on the teevee's as much as he is, it would be nice if he gave a little more convincing endorsement. That's what I'd like to see anyway.

But I agree with you that it's also being blown all out of proportion, with expectations over what Bill should do being too high.

[msallied]

17. Clinton is a con-man opportunist.

Always has been, always will be. he's trying to keep all of his options open to make sure he can get in good with both sides, so that when either man wins, he can have a chance at more power and money.

He's afraid to stand for anything on principle because he doesn't HAVE any principles. Men like Bill Clinton only see the world for what kinds of opportunities it can throw him. A man too afraid to take a stand and make some enemies is not a man I trust.

[mtnsnake]

19. Where did you learn that one? At Dr Phil University?

Good gawd

[msallied]

22. I must really be right then. Refute my claim or shut up.

If you don't see what Bill Clinton is trying to do by keeping both options open and operating under this "diplomatic" guise, then you're a fool beyond hope.

He's a political opportunist. He isn't operating out of some sense of altruism by praising both men. He is looking to see what he has to gain from EITHER SIDE. He's got both hands in the cookie jar. Nothing more. He's a dirty crook with no credibility left. And the fact that you insist on defending this scum bag shows a stunning dearth of credibility on your part as well.

[mtnsnake]

33. Maybe in your book & all the other RW trolls Bill Clinton is a scumbag

but in my book he was a helluva great president, so you know what you can do with your petty insults, Phil Jr.

[msallied]

35. Yeah. All that DOMA, NAFTA, and industry deregulation were very, um, "progressive."

Yeah, he was a helluva great Republican President. :eyes:

[Alexander]

45. Funny how the Clinton crowd is silent when you mention that.

They can't think of a comeback for Clinton's actual record, can they?

[Balderdash]

75. And how do you feel about Obama and FISA? nt

[Alexander]

85. I don't like it. But Clinton did many more things I don't like.

I'll grant you FISA.

But stack FISA up against NAFTA, FMSA, GATT, DOMA, DMCA and MFN status with China.

Clinton supported all of those.

That, to me, is far worse than one bad FISA vote coupled with a promise to create a new law once elected.

[Balderdash]

74. Afraid to make some enemies!?

Honestly, I'm stunned at that remark. The man has more enemies than frickin' Carter has pills (whatever the hell that means) and a lot of them seemingly in his own party.

[msallied]

98. He has enemies because of his wandering penis

And because he's too much like the Republicans he so OPENLY courted during his tenure. They didn't trust him. And neither should we.

[countingbluecars]

20. Saturday Night Live got it right last night.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/update-bill-clinton/704104/

[msallied]

21. BTW, even SNL lampooned Bill's tepidness last night.

Which means it's apparent to more than just a few DU holdouts. It means that regular people are seeing and WILL see what a prick Clinton is being in this matter. He is doing more harm than good. His motives are clear as day. He needs to go away.

[Cosmic Charlie]

23. I liked Bill better when he was stuffing his face with burgers. Now he just talks too much

[Cirque du So-What]

25. Just so things are kept nice & sparkly-clear

here's the transcript of today's MTP

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26927711/page/4/

and a very telling excerpt from it:

<snip>

MR. BROKAW: You know, we like to keep track of records here on MEET THE PRESS, as you're well aware of. We looked at this interview that Tim did with you a year ago at the Clinton Initiative--Global Initiative, and at that time you predicted that John McCain would be the Republican nominee, at a time when a lot of people thought he was...

PRES. CLINTON: He was dead.

MR. BROKAW: ...toast, in political terms. But you said as well, at that time, "I've disagreed with him, but I have admired him." And then to Maria Bartiromo last week you said, "I have never concealed my admiration and affection for Senator McCain. I think he's a great man. But I think on the issues, that matter to our future, the Obama-Biden team is more right."

PRES. CLINTON: I do believe that. I think Senator Obama has shown a remarkable ability to learn and grow in this campaign. He always was highly intelligent and always a very good politician. He, he got the change--the fundamental change in, in the calendar of this Democratic primary process of which we were engaged, his energy program kept getting better through the campaign, his healthcare program kept getting better. I, I, I think what you want in a president at a time like this is somebody with good instincts who generally starts in a right position and then just keeps getting better and that's what he's done.

MR. BROKAW: Would you use the same words for him that you have used for Senator McCain, that you admire him and that you think he's a good...

PRES. CLINTON: I certainly...

MR. BROKAW: ...and that he's a great man?

PRES. CLINTON: Well, I don't, look, I had my first conversation with him in my entire life in Harlem.

MR. BROKAW: You had never talked to him before that meeting.

PRES. CLINTON: No, I'd talked to him, but always in passing. I did a fundraiser for him when he ran for the Senate in 2004. I saw him briefly at Senator Kennedy's 75th birthday party. I had always, you know, I always--Hillary's the one who told me to go help him. She said, "This guy's got real skills. He's got almost unlimited potential." And I--she--so I did and I've always thought he was a really commanding presence. What I mean by saying that about McCain is, you know, most people would've been broken by what he went through. Oh, we would've been happy just to give him an "atta boy" and a medal and let him wander through life. I, I think his greatness is that he keeps trying to come back to service without ever asking people to cut him any slack or feel sorry for him or any of that stuff because he was a POW. But I, I genuinely, you know, I am developing a really good relationship with Senator Obama and I certainly admire him. And I know he saw and imagined the way this thing could develop, this political year and this, and this economic situation in a way that is left him in a position of leadership that he's in now. And I think that the rest of us should admire that. That's a big part of leadership, being able to sense, as well as see the future.

more...

Clinton is bending over backwards to avoid giving credit to Barack Obama for accomplishing anything, while at the same time praising McAnus to the heavens - even going so far as to deny that McAnus ever plays the POW card or ever does anything that is self-serving, great public servant that he is

:puke:

You can spin, call names, and bloviate to your heart's content, but it doesn't change one jot or tittle what emanated from Bill Clinton's piehole on MTP. We can see what transpired, and it looks for all the world like damning with faint praise to me.

[Tatiana]

38. "I had my first conversation with him in my entire life in Harlem."

(March 2007 in Selma)



OK, Bill. Whatever.

[PassingFair]

39. He's jealous of Barack.

It's OBVIOUS.

[BumRushDaShow]

65. So this was the "Honey Do" list?

Hillary's the one who told me to go help him.

:wtf:

:eyes:

[Balderdash]

83. From your own post.

"But I, I genuinely, you know, I am developing a really good relationship with Senator Obama and I certainly admire him. And I know he saw and imagined the way this thing could develop, this political year and this, and this economic situation in a way that is left him in a position of leadership that he's in now. And I think that the rest of us should admire that. That's a big part of leadership, being able to sense, as well as see the future."

[Proud Liberal Dem]

26. I like Bill Clinton and think he was a good President

However, if he's just going to keep spouting off about all of the ways that McCain/Palin are wonderful or great and refusing to wholeheartedly endorse Obama on the stump then he really should just disappear.
I haven't watched his DNC speech but I'll stipulate that it was everything good that people claim it was but I don't understand why he is giving any kind of "props" to McCain and/or Palin. If he's got some kind of plan/strategy in doing so then I'm eager to hear about it but nobody who is supposedly on our team should be trying, directly or indirectly, to pump up McCain/Palin and/or diminish the seriousness of choosing Obama/Biden over McCain/Palin.
Whatever kind of hang-up he might still have over the primary, he needs to GET OVER IT and get on the bandwagon for Obama or at the very least not praise the opposition. Geez!!! When Michael Moore once referred to Clinton as the greatest Republican President we've had, I used to think that that was kind of hyperbolic but with how he pumped up Bush in 2004 and is pumping up McCain/Palin now, I'm thinking that maybe he was on to something.

[emilyg]

27. Bill is doing a lot more than Gore or Carter.

[countingbluecars]

28. But Carter and Gore

are not on every show heaping praise on McCain either.

[msallied]

29. Better Carter and Gore say nothing than to have Bill and his wishy-washy ass out there.

[Alexander]

41. Gore and Carter don't go on TV if they have nothing nice to say about Obama.

[asjr]

31. Bill is being Bill. No one else like him.

But he is a target for everyone, good or bad. He can take it. I still remember those good years when he was president.

[msallied]

36. Maybe it's time to stop living in the past.

Because the "now" that is a direct result of the deregulations he signed into law isn't so good.

[tularetom]

32. The only babyish reaction I saw came from clintoon himself

For a long time he couldn't even force himself to say the word "Obama". Now all he can do is tell us all how great McPOW is, how everybody has to love Palin, how the "first dude" sounds like a "great guy" to him.

By the way bill, do you know why Chelsea is so ugly? According to your buddy McCain, it's because Janet reno is her father. If you were a man you wouldn't take that off a punk like him.

[Whisp]

67. politician or not, no way there should be forgiveness for that.

what kind of man/father is he putting his politics before his child?

[Alexander]

40. The Clinton sycophants strike again. Clinton could endorse McCain and you'd excuse that, too.

According to a small yet obnoxious minority here at DU, Bill Clinton can do no wrong.

[mtnsnake]

42. Who the fuck are you, Alexander, to call ANYONE obnoxious?

You are BY FAR one of THE most obnoxious miserable acting posters on this forum, bar none.

[BlooInBloo]

43. Hopefully I'm on your list.

[Alexander]

47. It's an honor to be called out by the "Clinton First" crowd.

It's obvious someone is attaching magnets to their moral compass.

[BlooInBloo]

48. Sigh. Maybe I'm just not trying hard enough.

:P

[Alexander]

51. Bring up some of the Clintons' Iran-Contra connections. That should do it.

:evilgrin:

[Skip Intro]

79. Moral compass? You really are one to talk.

You called me a liar a few weeks back. I proved your wrong, and asked for an apology repeatedly, which you ignored, to this day.

Moral compass?

[Alexander]

86. Yes, I am. And you are not. Glad to see you figured that out.

"You called me a liar a few weeks back. I proved your wrong, and asked for an apology repeatedly, which you ignored, to this day."

Prove it. Even if such an incident occurred, you are likely distorting the facts to make yourself look good.

Show me this thread, if it actually happened.

[Skip Intro]

91. I'll play this game one more time with you, a. Your move. We all know you won't reply.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3984360


posts 20, 23, 24, 26, 27



yeah, this was back during the heated primaries, but you did accuse me of spreading lies, meaning I'm a liar, and they were not lies, and I'm not a liar.



What was that about your moral compass again?

[Alexander]

93. Wow! In your world, one burning flag is a RIOT.

Even the caption in the photo called them "protesters", yet you claimed Obama "incited riots".

And apart from one photo of a burning flag, there are no other signs of destruction or mayhem (usually associated with riots).

Did the AP call them rioters? USA Today? Did you see any cars burning or windows broken?

No?

Neither did I.

So yeah, your whole "Obama incited riots" quote was a total crock of shit, and I'm glad I called you out on it.

Especially since your "evidence" was one photo of protesters, not rioters.

:rofl:

Dare I ask what you think of banning flag-burning? You must think flag-burners should be charged with rioting, right?

:rofl:

Your moral compass doesn't even exist, like your fake "proof".

BTW, I didn't respond to that nonsense because I never saw it.

Sometimes a thread sinks before I take a second look. So sue me.

Don't let that stop you from whining, playing victim and accusing me of ignoring you.

Now that I've thoroughly debunked your garbage, are you going to respond to me?

[Skip Intro]

96. omf'ng - one more smiley would have proved your point

how tragic...

:eyes:



goodbye alexadner

[Alexander]

97. You can't say anything in response because I utterly destroyed your pathetic claim.

That's it, go on, run away with your tail between your legs.

Figures you'd act so cowardly after your previous macho act.

[Alexander]

44. Try removing your lips from Clinton's ass next time. Or are they glued there?

Yes, you and the rest of the "Clinton First" crowd are obnoxious and everyone here knows it.

That's okay, you'll get over it eventually.

[mtnsnake]

46. Thanks for proving my point. n/t

[Alexander]

49. What point? You never have one, except "Bill Clinton is teh GREATEST!!1!!!!"

And anyone who disagrees with you about St. William is a troll, right-winger, or whatever name you can some up with.

We at DU are aware of your routine and it's not working.

[mtnsnake]

50. I've started threads about Obama being the greatest. Have you started any???

I don't think you have. All you're intent on doing is acting like a complete jerkoff in order to get threads you don't like locked as flamefests.

[BlooInBloo]

52. Takes two to tango, tiger.

[countingbluecars]

53. The wording of your original post

was an invitation to a flamefest. I think you know that.

[Alexander]

56. Of course. The Clinton fans here love to start flamefests and blame others for them.

Their hero Bill probably loves underhanded tactics like that.

[Alexander]

54. I start meaningful threads about issues, not just ass-kissing.

Does saying someone is the "greatest" get you a free lunch or something?

Because to me it just looks like mindless cheerleading.

Which is all you've ever done here.

[mtnsnake]

57. All I've ever seen you do is crash theads you don't like & try to get them locked, period.

[Alexander]

59. Then maybe you shouldn't post here while you're in a blind stupor.

You have a star. Go run a search of my threads if you don't believe me.

Oh wait, that would involve facts and truth, two things that make you and Bill Clinton both look bad.

:eyes:

[Skip Intro]

78. no shit. n/t

[Ikonoklast]

55. At least you're consistent.

Completely deluded, but consistent.

I salute you.

[Sparkly]

58. I missed all this.

But yes, I think some people expect gushing adoration bordering on worship for some reason. That, or they just don't like Clinton no matter what. :shrug:

[Alexander]

60. Or maybe we don't expect Clinton to praise McCain and Palin while being silent on Obama.

You know, that whole "party loyalty" thing.

[BlooInBloo]

61. It's funny because they're going back to their "Obama worship" bullshit.

[Sparkly]

62. "They" are?

:eyes: Sorry if I touched a nerve. But I've heard Clinton express his unqualified support for Obama/Biden many times over now.

[BlooInBloo]

63. Yes, they.

[Sparkly]

64. I'm right here.

If you've got a problem with what I said, say it to me directly.

Unless I'm too big, bad & scary.

[BlooInBloo]

66. Hush, oh scary one.

[Alexander]

88. Okay, I'll say it. I have a problem with what you said.

Nobody expects worship of Obama - that's a Clintonite straw man if I ever heard one - but we do expect Clinton not to go on TV and praise McCain & Palin with nary a word for Obama besides "I think he'll win".

The phrase "If you can't say something nice about somebody, don't say anything at all" applies here.

If Clinton can't bring himself to compliment Obama besides a pathetic "I think he'll win", then I expect him, as a Democrat, to either say nothing about any of the candidates, or to stay off the TV.

So yes, I have a problem with people who use the "Obama worship" straw man. Just because we don't want Clinton gushing over McCain and Palin does not mean we expect "worship" of Obama.

It means we expect the last Democratic POTUS not to undermine the campaign of the next one.

I hope we can understand each other even if we disagree.

[monmouth]

70. Wow, you really changed my mind from thinking Bill is a POS..Lucky me!...n/t

[Forkboy]

71. From who, his detractors or supporters?

Far as I can tell, half the people on both sides are mental midgets.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skip Intro]

76. No, they want him on his kness before Obama. Mostly, tho, they just want to bitch.

[Beausoir]

90. Agreed.

There be trolls here.

[Arkansas Granny]

80. I can believe it because I've seen far too much of it. There are some who get such

a high from their hatred that it has become almost an addiction and they will seize any opportunity they can find to bitch and complain about any statement that comes out of Clinton's mouth that does not slam McCain.

Even as recently as August, 2008, Clinton still had high approval ratings in several national polls.
http://www.pollingreport.com/clinton1.htm
This is the population in general, not just Democrats, which puts him in a position of being able to appeal to some on the right, also.

Some Democrats seem to not understand, or they willfully ignore, that Clinton is trying to appeal to those voters who still have a measure of respect for McCain but could be persuaded to vote for Obama if they would only listen to a reasonable discussion of the issues and perhaps be convinced that Obama is the best choice to lead this country. In order to do that Clinton has to choose his words carefully in order not to completely turn away those voters that we really need to reach to assure Obama's election.

There are others who can rip into McCain, and I believe we will see more of that as we get closer to the election. However, as a former President, Clinton has to practice statesmanship, and I believe that is exactly what the Obama campaign wants from him at this time.

[Skip Intro]

81. I wish you'd make that post it's own thread. nt

[Beausoir]

89. Excellent post. It is an addiction for some.

[Jakes Progress]

94. What really eats the haters

is that if he were allowed to do so, Bill could announce tomorrow and win in a walk. He's that popular. But of course, the haters know more than everyone else. They are privy to special, double secret, really private stuff. They are special. It's a tiny little world they live in and they are big things in that tiny world, so they want everyone to buy into their myopic view.

They really don't care if Obama wins. They don't mind jamming the boards with hate mail no matter how much it hurts the campaign. Just as long as everyone knows how cool they are. We will win in November despite them.

[Danger Mouse]

87. Yes. Yes I do want him to embrace Obama.

[barack the house]

95. This arguing over Bill Clinton is unproductive, let's just use our energy to combat McCain.

[medeak]

100. watching rerun late at night AM DONE WITH HIM

can't someone duct tape his friggin mouth? jesus!

Am from Arkansas and most loyal Clinton supporter but AM DONE

[ccharles000]

101. I agree

[DiamondKrosse]

102. I completely agree

and I am sick of the dishonour for him on this board.

[krkaufman]

103. Your post fails to accurately portray Clinton's comments ...

... nor does it capture the relative praise for McCain.

But whatever.

[endthewar]

104. But did you factor in Bill's reverse psychology?

:rofl: