What's with the asterisk next to Dean's name?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

I keep seeing this today:

*D

in reference to Dean. What does this mean? Just askin'.

[slinkerwink]

1. they're trying to insinuate that he's exactly like bush

which is false.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

2. That's what I thought

Just making sure.

Sigh...

[slinkerwink]

4. yep, any posts that has an asterik next to Dean's name should be deleted

or alerted on---that's my response. We should bring this up to the administrators.

[Patriot_Spear]

I know I think it's out of line- and I'll be reporting it. n/t

[MIMStigator]

51. Poop

nt

[bearfartinthewoods]

59. it took me awhile but i finally figured out what poop stands for

Please Offer Only Praise..

sorry, no can do.

[Julien Sorel]

83. Oh no!

Will he go on double secret probation?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

6. Fuck it

Don't bother. Who cares?

[blm]

45. Any post that calls others Bushlite should be alerted by the same logic.

Wouldn't that be nice? It really is such a horrid, dishonest tactic.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

47. If it's used next to their name

as in, for example, "LaRouche (Bushlite)" then it's the same logic.

[ibegurpard]

5. How cute!

An added bonus to Dean getting the nomination, besides the fact that I think he is our best bet to defeat Bush, will be knowing that the Dean-haters will be gnashing their teeth in despair.

[bearfartinthewoods]

60. and you think the constant cockiness will encourage these teeth gnashers

to vote for dean? if not, how do you think you can defeat bush?

[ibegurpard]

70. It certainly wasn't meant to be cocky

Because by no means do I think the nomination is a sure thing for Dean. What I meant to say was that IF Dean gets the nomination, an added bonus to me would be the Dean-haters gnashing their teeth in despair.

[KaraokeKarlton]

79. Double edged sword

Cockiness may be annoying to some of the supporters of others, but in reality, I believe it's jealousy of success and resentment/bitterness that Dean is doing better than their candidates. So, some supporters of others are going to help Bush by not voting for Dean? Some may think that's warranted. Perhaps it is, but consider this...

What do you think the constant viscious attacks on not only our candidates but US personally are going to do for our willingness to vote for any of the others?

I used to have a pretty positive image of Clark. A lot of his supporters here have turned me off so badly that everytime he comes on TV now I change the channel. I actually chose to listen to a Bush speech over a Clark interview simply because everytime I see his face I'm reminded of the crap some of his supporters post here with his picture or name attached to it. It's been the same thing with Kerry for months now. I can't even listen to or watch either one of them because of what they remind me of. I can't even like their candidates at all at this point. I know that I'm not alone. Would I get out and vote for Clark or Kerry if either get the nomination? If voting were today, I wouldn't.

Dean does have the most supporters and activists. In order to win, whoever is nominated is going to NEED Dean supporters if they ever hope to beat Bush. It's dumb to alienate them. That's what is happening and I think if it continues it's going to mean not only another 4 years of Bush, but the essential death of the Democratic Party.

[Clark Can WIN]

80. Yeah, it'll be fabulous to have lots of potential democratic voters

gnashing their teeth in dispair. That is a very worthwile goal. :eyes:

[5thGenDemocrat]

82. Yeah, maybe I'll be gnashing mine so much

That I'll be at the dentist on November 7.
John
Be careful what you wish for -- you may just get it.

[robbedvoter]

7. Actually D in this case stands for the Dem version of *

Bush or dean?
* I'm rich. I'm white. I went to Yale.  
* I used my wealth and family connections to avoid going to Vietnam. While
poor and working

class people my age were dying there, I was busy partying.
* I was a governor before running for president. I had no

foreign policy experience before running for office.
* I like my records sealed and invoke executive privilege.
* I have a perfect record from the NRA. Guns are good.
* I don't like campaign finance reform.
* I don't like Medicare.
* Let's raise the retirement age to 70.
* I like the Confederate flag. It's states' rights.
* Right to work legislation? States' rights.
* Affirmative action? States' rights.
* I support the death penalty.
* I'm uncomfortable with gay unions, "just like anybody else."
* I support sending nuclear waste to poor Hispanic towns. I also gave the
leading polluter in my state my Environmental Achievement Award -- nine times!
* While governor I refused to meet with environmentalists while constantly
meeting with developers.
* Growth in government services must fall within the constraints of a
balanced budget.
* I won't support decreases in the Pentagon budget

So, who am I, * or *D?

[slinkerwink]

9. POOP

still wrong to put an asterik next to Dean's name.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. and it's wrong to call other Dems Bush-Lite

but that didn't stop Dean did it?

[slinkerwink]

14. THEY VOTED FOR THE WAR

that makes them bush-lite, and they didn't even stand up for Gore in 2000.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. IWR did not have to result in war

and a unilateral one at that. And there was a thread here just last week on how Kerry stood up for Gore. But no matter- the point is Dean is hardly uniting Democrats, or positively marketing us to a broader audience with his irresponsible rhetoric.

[Scott Lee]

74. It DID result in war.

Reality check, no charge.

[blm]

29. Kerry stood up for Gore in 2000 during the recount.

Did Dean?

Dean would have voted for B-L which STILL would have led to war. Would that make Dean Bushlite for supporting B-L?

[goobergunch]

30. B-L was never put to a vote (n/t)

[blm]

35. Doesn't matter. Dean said he would've voted for it at the time.

That's the only true gauge we have of what Dean really supported in IWR and what he didn't. And it appears that dean used deceptive rhetoric in his stump speeches to reduce the debate to prowar and antiwar, completely bypassing his own nuanced position that was much closer to those who he attacked.

[goobergunch]

38. You can't say somebody would have voted for something...

that was never voted on...nobody could have voted FOR or AGAINST Biden-Lugar, as it was never put to a vote.

[blm]

40. Don't blame me, Dean is the one who said he would've voted for it.

That's the only gauge we have of where he really stood back at the time of the IWR vote.

[ibegurpard]

42. Biden-Lugar was a much preferable compromise

that I would've supported. I was aware of it at the time and the fact that Dean supported it bothers me not at all.

[blm]

50. Preferable, yes. That's not the argument.

The argument is that Dean never bothered to address the nuances of the Iraq issue that were really very close to the IWR. Instead he chose to reduce it to a black and white argument which deceived many in his audiences.

He demagogued it into prowar and antiwar completely ignoring the nuances of his own stance as well as others.

[ibegurpard]

55. He stated his support for Biden-Lugar LONG ago.

I remember it and the fact that you are trying to make an issue out of it NOW is questionable.

On edit: If I'm correct you think the issue is that Dean wasn't stumping the nuances at campaign rallies. Campaign rallies aren't the place for nuance...if Kerry realized that he might do better.

[blm]

62. No...the problem is the media just noticing Dean's actual stance now

when they never bothered to examine it earlier which allowed Dean to demagogue the issue into an antiwar and prowar one where nuance was eliminated. That was dishonest, deceptive and so Deanlike.

[ibegurpard]

67. Well, you're seeing something other than me

I was aware of the support from Day 1...it coincided with my own belief that it was a preferable alternative. He's never said he's anti-war and if he did then he would probably lose a lot of support from people. He was anti-THIS war, as was I and millions of others who saw it for what it was. The IWR as passed granted legitimacy to Bush's wag-the-dog effort.

[robbedvoter]

78. The Kennedy Byrd - the only acceptable compromises to support:

> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030131/ap_on_go_co/congress_iraq_4
>
> Two senior Democratic senators, Robert Byrd
> of West Virginia and Ted Kennedy of
> Massachusetts, this week proposed separate
> bills on the matter. Byrd's would require President
> Bush (news - web sites) to seek a fresh vote
> in the U.N. Security Council before attacking Iraq;
> Kennedy's would require new votes in
> Congress before doing so.
>
> But the chance of approval for either
> measure is slim, given GOP control of the Senate and a
> lack of enthusiasm from Democratic
> congressional leaders.

Now, if *D had supported that, he'd have clean hands.

[Clark Can WIN]

81. All of the reasons above make Dean not just Bush lite but

Bushesque. Just as bad.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

11. In that case,

shouldn't it really be (D)*? Isn't that technically more accurate?

[Ripley]

16. So you choose to back a candidate who is poor, black and did

not attend college? Who would that be? Is Sharpton poor? Did he go to college? Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

What family connections fused Dean's spine so he was given medical deferment? Which poor, black, non-college attending Vietnam vet are you backing?

I could go on, but I'm bored already. Funny guy, you sound like a speechwriter for the wrong team.

[bushisanidiot]

19. If You Think Dean is anything like AWOL you're living on another

planet or at least listening to too much "fox news".
i won't comment on every one of your "points", but Dr. absolutely did NOT get out of serving in vietname by using "wealth or family connections". sorry, that's just a bald face lie. he showed up when his number was called and was turned away due to a back problem. this is common knowledge to anyone who's been paying attention.

mr. awol on the other hand DID use his family connections to get a cozy position in the national guard and fly obsolete planes, guaranteeing that he would never see combat.. then as we all know he snuck out to "work on a campaign" for a year which caused him to go AWOL and become a deserter in a time of war. You CANNOT compare president AWOL's military history to Dr. Dean's. Dr. Dean DID do what he was asked to do by his country. President AWOL ran away and hid.

[LuminousX]

21. Fun with lists

Bush or dean?
* I used my wealth and family connections to avoid going to Vietnam. While poor and working class people my age were dying there, I was busy partying.

The evidence that Dean used connections to avoid going to Vietnam has never been put forward.

* I like my records sealed and invoke executive privilege.

When did Dean invoke executive privelege? Even if Dean wasn't running for President, using his predecessor as an example, his records would still be sealed.

* I have a perfect record from the NRA. Guns are good.

NRA only knocks politicians who take action against guns. Since the people of Vermont didn't want action against guns, Dean gets a good rating.

* I don't like Medicare.

When did either of them say they were opposed to Medicare.

* Let's raise the retirement age to 70.

* I like the Confederate flag. It's states' rights.

Dean has been clear that he opposes the Confederate Flag, but it is a violation of the Consitution to mandate it not be flown (1st Amendment you may recall)

This is a silly pointless effort, but whatever chills your beans.

[mzmolly]

44. Sounds like a winning candidate to me ...

:hi:

Hey arent' you for Clark?? *you know the Nixon, Reagan, Bush 1 voter?

I think I'd refrain from Repub comparisons if I were a Clark supporter. I think he and Dean share positions on the issues right down to gun control/states rights kinda stuff.

But, they say many *C supporters don't really know their candidate so?

Hey how bout * or *C?? heh :hi:

[edzontar]

46. Indeed! And I accept Clark's story of "conversion"

From the Puke fold to the land of truth and justice.

Any Clarkie who calls Dean a Puke is simply silly, misinformed, or dishonest.

[mikehiggins]

49. I don't know who "they" are but there are very few Clark supporters

who don't know just who he is, and where he came from.

Its all a matter of record and quite easily uncovered, as a lot of folks on DU have proven.

As to asterisks, I don't use 'em and that's the only person I'm responsible for in this world.

[Rose Siding]

61. .

I deleted my response (an uncharacteristic shot at Clark) in honor of absyntheNsugar's reasoned and civil debunking of the post to which I responed.

[absyntheNsugar]

85. Why thank ya!

I still don't understand why supporting one candidate means you have to bash others. I'm one of the few who thinks we are blessed with a bevy of kickass candidates. And only 2 are DLC'ers, and of those two one is on the left end of the DLC.

[Rose Siding]

86. We do have good candidates

I'm a Dean supporter and I don't pre-emtively bash but I have caught myself using things I dislike about another candidate in responses, mostly in the spirit of "look here! stop that- all have flaws"

It isn't effective and one def of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome. :silly:

[absyntheNsugar]

63. OK...I'm a Clark supporter willing to debunk this....

Bush or dean?
* I'm rich. I'm white. I went to Yale.
* I used my wealth and family connections to avoid going to Vietnam. While poor and working class people my age were dying there, I was busy partying.

<OK this is true for both Bush and Dean...and Clinton as well (though he didn't go to Yale), who was a fine president>

* I was a governor before running for president. I had no

foreign policy experience before running for office.

<so were Carter and Clinton...both fine presidents>

* I like my records sealed and invoke executive privilege.

<Bush seals EVERYTHING, whereas Dean only has one file sealed>

* I have a perfect record from the NRA. Guns are good.

<Dean just argues that cities and municipalities should set their own gun laws. Perfectly reasonable. Bush NO gun restrictions.>

* I don't like campaign finance reform.
* I don't like Medicare.
* Let's raise the retirement age to 70.

<BS....this was all taken out of context with Dean>

* I like the Confederate flag. It's states' rights.

<OK this was TOTALLY taken out of context...Dean never said he liked the Confederate flag, just that he wanted to gain the Nascar dad vote. Now he didn't say it in the most smooth manner, but he never said anything in support of the Confederate flag.>

* Right to work legislation? States' rights.

<This is an unelectable position. You could go down the line with unelectable positions....Both Dean and Bush support businesses, both Dean and Bush support cops carrying guns...>

* Affirmative action? States' rights.

<Dead wrong - Dean supports Affirmative Action 100%>

* I support the death penalty.

<So?>

* I'm uncomfortable with gay unions, "just like anybody else."

<OK BIG TIME BS!!!!! DID DEAN NOT SIGN THE CIVIL UNIONS BILL????>

* I support sending nuclear waste to poor Hispanic towns. I also gave the
leading polluter in my state my Environmental Achievement Award -- nine times!

<also BS...>


* While governor I refused to meet with environmentalists while constantly
meeting with developers.

<Dean got quite a high rating from environmentalists...and he did meet with them several times. He met with developers too - and guess what? If Kucinich were Governor of Ohio, he would meet with them too. It's called "knowing your constituents.">

* Growth in government services must fall within the constraints of a
balanced budget.

<And this is a bad thing???? The only difference is that Bush says this, but practicese quite something else. Bush is defecit spending to an extreme unseen in our history. Dean always balanced the VT budget, even though he wasn't compelled by law.>

* I won't support decreases in the Pentagon budget

<But Dean wants accountability, Bush wants 'Black Budgets.' Give them money - but make them account for every cent. And if we don't like what we see, next time around cut it. It's called the 'rope to hang yourself' policy.>


ON EDIT: If I said this once, I'll say it a million times. Dean would make an EXCELLENT president. So would Clark. In fact, note per note Clark is a tad more to the left than Dean. However they are both excellent candidates.

However, I think Clark has a big edge over Bush, whereas Dean's edge is not as great. Not saying Dean can't win, just saying it will take a lot more work than a Clark campaign.

[blm]

3. I dunno. Maybe it means the same as "Bushlite"

that Dean uses. Pathetic tactic, isn't it?

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

8. It reminds me more

of the Republicans referring to us as the "Democrat Party" instead of the "Democratic Party".

Whatever.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

13. Or Limbaugh referring to DU as...

..."Democrat Underground." But then accuracy isn't his strongest attribute.

[foo_bar]

73. democratunderground.com also goes here

[blm]

26. It makes me sick that good liberals are called "Bushlite"

by a lifelong centrist and that the ONE lawmaker who has exposed more government corruption than ALL the candidates put together, somehow got labeled as a "corrupt Washington insider" by Deanies who applauded themselves for their success.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

33. You know...

this may come as a shock to you, but some of us "Deanies" support him for our own reasons, and not at the expense of other candidates.

I'm assuming that it's Kerry you're talking about. I have no problems with Kerry at all and have never said word one against him here. But even if I didn't like him I would still keep it to myself, out of respect for other people's opinions. Maybe there have been people here whose behavior you've found abrasive or disagreeable, but that doesn't give you the right to characterize all of us as engaging in the same behavior. There are Kerry supporters here whose behavior I find annoying as hell, but it wouldn't occur to me to lump all of his supporters together. It's not civil, and more importantly, it's not accurate.

Sorry for the rant, but this is really frustrating. I really try to be as magnanimous as possible here, and my own commitment to defeating Bush is as strong as anybody's, so it's very frustrating to feel constantly on the defensive and feel as though I have to apologize constantly for my choice of candidate.

[blm]

37. Not all Deanies spread that lie...but those who did

know who they are. I wish it hadn't happened, and I'm sure John Kerry wishes it hadn't succeeded.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

41. It hasn't succeeded

I am just not seeing a huge movement here to discredit the guy. And as a Kool-Aid quaffing Deanie who's incapable of individual thought, wouldn't I have received the memo to spread this pernicious lie? And wouldn't I go around repeating it everywhere?

Maybe it's a question of perception. There may very well be a lot less hostility towards Dean here, but since he's my preferred candidate, maybe I'm just allowing it to loom larger than it really is. I don't see Clark getting beseiged from all corners on the usual charges that you hear about him, but I'm sure that to his supporters it must seem like he is subjected to a lot of unfair persecution. Could this same situation apply in Kerry's case?

[Scott Lee]

75. then why did Kerry vote for war?

Guess we'll have to wait what the explanation du jour is, eh?

[HFishbine]

10. *

* President.

[chiburb]

15. Still undecided here, but...

Seeing the *D does nothing to sway me to their candidates. If anything, it makes me sympathetic to you Deaners. Not all of you, but the majority of you that don't stoop to that level.
Talk about sophomoric...

On edit: Of course the supporters don't "put me off their candidates". What I said (but not clearly enough) was they do nothing to entice me to their candidates. I'm ABB regardless...

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

17. It's OK

Soon, the primaries will be over and all this will be over as well. That will be a nice day.

[wryter2000]

23. Thanks

But don't let the Dean haters put you off their candidates. Judge the candidates on their own merits.

:yourock:

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

25. I have no problems with any of the other candidates

I would vote for any of them with a smile. I am able to separate the candidate from the supporter. Most intelligent people can.

[KoKo]

20. Well, they get away with "Anti-War" vs. Anti-Iraq Invasions so they push

on with their little tricks. Using * next to Dean. That's disgusting. Reminds me of Limbaugh type tactics. :puke:

[TrueAmerican]

22. I don't know

Maybe it means Draft Dodger?

[edzontar]

36. What a disgusting, GOP-ish slur...

You do your candidate no favors with swill like this.

[TrueAmerican]

57. It is in the GOP dirty bag of trips

Just preparing everyone for the GOP attacks if Dean wins nomination. If.

[quinnox]

24. *D is a good symbol

Nothing wrong with it.

[goobergunch]

28. Asteriks can be used against other candidates

Such as Kerry*, Edwards*, Gephardt*, and Lieberman*.

* voted to authorize the pResident to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to defend the national security of the United States against the so-called "continuing threat" posed by Iraq.

Note: I don't plan to be using these...I believe it's an unfair attack against any candidate.

EDIT: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.J.RES.114.ENR:

[HFishbine]

32. Ah, I gotcha

You mean like *lark?

[LuminousX]

31. The fact you don't see anything wrong with it speaks volumes

about the direction DU is headed.

[quinnox]

34. No, it doesn't

I don't have any control which way DU heads, I'm just one member.

I'm sure Deanies will complain, and if admin says not to use that symbol, so be it. But for now, I think it is appropriate.

Like I said yesterday, it's ironic that Dean called the other candidates Bush-lite for months, when he is closer to it than most of 'em.

[LuminousX]

48. Trust me, I didn't say you have that much power, I was merely saying

your acceptance of *D is a symptom.

[windansea]

84. au contraire

your acceptance of Dean's bush-lite labeling is not just a sympton

it's a disease

[benddem]

27. The remark that Dean used wealth and family connections

to get out of Vietnam is specious. My brother who was raised in a home where the father never earned over $7000.00 a year, got out of the army with the same condition.:puke:

[KoKo]

39. My Father in Law a Naval Commander didn't want his 5 sons in

Viet Nam. He served in WWII and Korea. D-Day Invasion, Africa and Pacific. Has many medals. He felt Viet Nam was wrong. None of his five sons had a high draft number so he didn't have to try to pull strings. But, he would have if he could.

If you could avoid it you tried to get out of it in the later days of the war when everyone knew what was going on there. There was violent disagreement about our being in VietNam. That's why the push to end the draft came about.

How soon people forget history. Some folks didn't know any to begin with, but that's no excuse for not looking up what went on in the Viet Nam years and why there was such enrmous protest and bitterness about it.

[edzontar]

43. This thread is full of divisive, simple-minded slander...

And I support the idea that any thread denoting Dean with an asterisk should be deleted.

Besides, it is Clark who admits having voted for Reagan twice, not Dean.

I like Clark, but if anyone deserves an asterisk, it is him.

[mikehiggins]

54. LOL Yeah Clark and all those other Americans who voted Reagan

into office two times in a row.

Clark must have slipped and fallen when he went to vote and accidentally voted for Clinton and Gore twice, and Gore Lieberman once. Couldn't be evidence that he came to see the Democrats as being more representative of America than the GOP.

Of course, we only have Clark's word that he voted for Clinton and Gore. Its not like his votes for Reagan and Bush I. After all, the source of that bit of news is absolutely unimpeachable.

So, what he did 23 years ago is telling, but what he did thirteen years ago is not.

Good, clear thinking.

[WillyT]

52. Man... That Bush-Lite Label Really Stings For You Guys, Huh ???

If I'm recalling correctly, that term was being bantered about here, and other places on the net, way before Dr. Dean decided to toss it out there. It was used by many of us right here who were PISSED OFF at many within our own party giving cover to the actions of the REAL *.

The fact that Dean used it first is just an indication of his being in touch with how angry many of us Dems were at our own political party and some of its members. Gephardt and Lieberman in the Rose Garden with Bush comes to mind...

And... "We didn't know the pResident was gonna lie to us." Is another indication of certain candidates being out of touch with things. What, they weren't paying attention???

:grr::nuke::mad:

[edzontar]

53. Some of them worked REALLY HARD to get that Bush-Lite label

Like Lieberman and Gebby in the Rose Garden...or so many others who caved and/or whored on so many issues....where to start?

For these neophytes to come here and label Dean with an asterisk is the height of obnoxious stupidity.

[ibegurpard]

56. EXACTLY!

He just tapped into a lot of the frustration and impotence a LOT of us were feeling at the fact the our Democratic "leaders" were NOT representing us.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

58. Meanwhile, Daschle et al. filibustered a lot of bad judges

for the (apparently) ungrateful.

[ibegurpard]

65. Bullshit

Every time Democrats actually stood up for something they got major props on this forum.

[WillyT]

66. Hey, I'll Score That One For Our Side, And Am Thankful, But...

They also rolled over and pissed straight into the air on the Medicare Bill. Handing the boys at Pharma all the little business protections they could ever want. And THAT, boys and girls, is exactly what the DLC was designed to do. Play ball with Big Business, and toss a few crumbs to the people.

Let them eat cake... indeed.

:nuke:

[windansea]

64. how amusing

Dean and his Deanies can label others as Bush-Lite

but nobody else can!!

[WillyT]

69. You Wanna Call Dean Bush-Lite, It Doesn't Bother Me In The Least...

But I'm wonderin how y'all would feel if some Dem Operatives put out an ad talking about YOUR candidate while showing a menacing picture of Osama Bin Laden. Kind of make Bush-Lite seem tame by comparison, no???

:shrug:

[windansea]

71. yes the ad was tasteless (nt)

[WillyT]

72. Thank You !!!

:hi:

[Scott Lee]

76. I'll ask again - has Gep Kerry LIEberman denounced the ad yet?

Funny, all I ever get from this question is silence.

I wonder why that is?

[Zomby Woof]

68. All of you are just ripping me off

Including Doonesbury. :P

I wrote this in the summer of 2002...

Link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/06/29_asterisk.html

(Note: Attacking a candidate doesn't violate DU rules, so your calls for censorship make me grateful DU is in capable hands, and resistant to such thin-skinned protestations.)

[Scott Lee]

77. Watch it or I'll have to Dr. Seuss you again.

tee heeee