I'm getting so sick of these idiots on TV saying that raising taxes on businesses who make over...

[cags]

$250,000 yr is going to make us lose jobs and employers won't be able to make payroll crap!

Just once I want someone to rebut that with...

Who supports small business?, how does small business make their money? Thats right dumbass the lower and middle class... If the lower and middle classes have no money to spend... the businesses will fail... If they have money to spend the businesses will prosper and have all the money they need to pay that little extra tax.

Why does no one make that point? Ugh

[uponit7771]

1. Dems don't respond to MsM group think much, without oversight MsM will think moon made of cheese

.

[Juche]

2. I know

I don't grasp it either. If everyone is making $7/hr and desperately afraid they will not have a job in a year then our economy, which is about 70% consumer goods, grinds to a halt.

When gas prices were alot higher there was an auto factory that made SUVs that had to close down (forget where). The state offered them millions in tax rebates but they closed down anyway because demand wasn't there. People can't afford the cars or the gas anymore, no matter how many tax cuts you give the company. Hence they close down.

[cags]

6. But I wish Dems would say it on TV... People understand the concept when I talk about it in person

I have had a few peoples light bulbs turn on after realizing that it makes sense. And it helps business in the long run

[unpossibles]

3. exactly!

Also, just look around the past 8 years. Low taxes did not create a real boom, did not create millions of jobs, did not make the economy or the dollar stronger, did not prevent outsourcing, etc., it just made a small percent of America rich, and a HUGE percent's average wages adjusted for cost of living/inflation go down.

I cannot believe that anyone still thinks Supply Side Voodoonomics is a good thing.

[dmallind]

4. It also misses a key point

Taxes on small businesses (and big ones too!) are levied on net income AFTER expenses, which includes all costs of employees. After tax income is not used to fund employment in any way whatsoever.

In fact one very good way for a very small business to stay under the $250K level and avoid higher marginal rates would be to hire MORE people.

I have never understood that claim, but it's one of the great unexamined truisms of not just the right but most moderates and even some on the left (who will most likely reject the concern for reasons either like yours or because of a desire to "soak the rich"). It's just BS - taxes and employment are related only in whether your employees will generate enough value to be worth the payroll taxes you pay for their FICA withholding (and their pay and benefits of course - but those are nothing to do with taxation).

[WCGreen]

8. Almost, almost correct...

Tax on profits, especially if you are a Sub-S or LLC, can be manipulated to actually pay lower taxes.

[dmallind]

10. Sorry not getting what you mean

What is it that's different? When I had an S corp we paid taxes on net income after payroll. Are there other tax codes where companies pay taxes on gross income or revenue? I'm not a tax attorney so I can certainly stand correction, but I confess I've never heard of a corporate tax on anything but net income (not that I would necessarily object to one especially for the creative-accounted megacorps).

[WCGreen]

12. It all depends on which income is recognized amd where...

Having an S Corp or a LLC allows you to plan how you are going to recognize income. Say, for instance, you can pay yourself through Payroll and also vis pass through. The pass through is recognized by the tax payer so they do not have to pay payroll tax on that amount.

[dmallind]

14. Ah gotcha - but that's only for owners right?

Wouldn't actual employees as opposed to principals only be paid through payroll and thus be part of the pre-tax expenses for the corporation?

Again this is a question not a rebuttal.

[PBS Poll-435]

5. The argument does not hold water and I yell obscenities every time it is uttered on the TV

First, you have the US Internal Revenue Code, which most have been told is far to complicated for the average American to understand and they must obtain help in tax prep and tax planning.

Then, in the same breath, someone will throw out a stupid one line statement about the impact on a candidate's tax policy, and they expect you to believe it.

:wtf:

[cags]

9. The problem is many believe it, but with that simple counterpoint people get it. Dems should use it

[mrcheerful]

7. Because people think that giving rich more riches 2 things will happen

1) they will invest it back into their business instead of off shoring the tax breaks or buying a second home in the Bahama's or buying a new 100 foot yacht or buying a new Rolls or buying a republicon congress critter for more tax breaks. And the most important one 2) that the rich will reward them with a golden trickle down on their heads effect.

Never mind facts, like the one that no new jobs have been created since the republicons first ran this BS 8 years ago. Or the fact that they are worse off today then they were 8 years ago. Just like the person who buys lotto tickets know that any day now they too will hit the jack pot and all their problems will go away.

[treestar]

11. It's not even relevant if the tax is on their profit

The employees salaries are parts of the costs of doing the business, so unless this is a gross profits tax, the M$M windbags are full of crap, as usual.

[joop]

13. Oh I hear you!

I grind my teeth when they bark about how not providing tax cuts to the top echelons cuts jobs whereas providing them magically creates jobs.

Yep, now they can have a different gardener for each topiary on the estate instead of the normal crew of 5.

Obama's got a clear plan to create thousands of green collar jobs while making huge inroads in using renewable resources and getting away from oil dependence and the best they can come up with is......but but but but, cutting taxes on the rich MAKES JOBS.

BULLSHIT.

I know Michael Moore can go a little off the deep end but I really do think he has something when he talks in his suggestions to President Obama about lifting the cap on SS deductions. If the same percentage is paid regardless of the income it could pull some serious buck back into the SS system.