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Re: Chuck Todd on Hardball - revealling new numbers on important crosstab points

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:34 PM
Original message
Re: Chuck Todd on Hardball - revealling new numbers on important crosstab points
While we concentrate on the top line numbers of polls, i.e. whether somebody is for Obama or McCain, campaigns don't really bother with that much.

Plouffe gave an update at the convention where he admitted that they hardly look at the top line in any poll.

The reason? Its the crosstabs that are showing where public opinion is headed and since the election isn't being held today then the top line numbers are irrelevant its where the numbers are heading.

Todd gave some very surprising statistics on the crosstabs. Some of it was also reported on MSNBC.COM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27155454/


1) huge difference between Obama's favorables and unfavorables 64 versus 33

This is a big difference this late in the campaign. What is so unusual is that Obama's unfavorable's went down from 36 to 33. This is somewhat unprecedented as almost always negatives go up as a campaign progresses. The most determantive number in a campaign is not the positives but the negatives. These low negatives are a good sign that the polling numbers are not only firm but likely to improve for Obama. What accounts for this - the debates



Nearly two-thirds of voters, 64 percent, now view Obama favorably, up six percentage points from early September. About a third of voters have a better opinion of the senator from Illinois because of his debate performances, while 8 percent have a lower opinion of him. By contrast, more than a quarter said they think worse of McCain as a result of the debates, more than double the proportion saying their opinion had improved. McCain's overall rating has also dipped seven points, to 52 percent, over the past month.



This means that Obama's even handed town in a debate and his "John's right" meme, which drove DU crazy, had a major impact on this election.

2) McCain's negatives go up so that his favorable/unfavorable is now 54/45

Todd explained that most of that 9 point jump for McCain was that his unfavorables among Democrats went from 70% to 95% (for example). This is also good because it means that Obama's base remains highly polarized vis a vis the Republicans and portends a very high Democratic turn out.

3) Telling difference on the Economy

Another huge difference between Obama and McCain - on the economy



Obama is winning "economy voters" by 62 percent to 33 percent, nearly a 2-to-1 ratio.



4) And for the first time on taxes



On taxes, an issue that often benefits Republicans and that McCain has worked aggressively to highlight, Obama holds a significant lead for the first time as voters gave the Democrat an 11-point edge on whom they trust to handle tax policy.



5) Labelling Obama as radical/risky/better leader - having no effect



Nor has there been evident progress for the GOP campaign to label Obama as an extreme liberal: Fifty-five percent of voters see the Democrat as "about right" ideologically, and although 37 percent see him as "too liberal," that is about the same as it was in June. By contrast, the percentage seeing McCain as "too conservative" is up to 42 percent, higher than it was four months ago.

McCain's efforts to portray Obama as a risky choice do not appear to have worked, either. In fact, voters are likelier to describe the Republican candidate that way, and although 29 percent said they consider Obama a "very safe" choice for president, 18 percent said the same for McCain. Voters were evenly divided on the question of whether McCain is safe or risky; 55 percent said Obama is safe, while 45 percent described the Democrat as risky

Yet on the broader question of leadership, voters gave Obama a 14-point advantage, saying, by 54 percent to 40 percent, that he is a "stronger leader" than McCain. The two were about tied on that question in late September, and McCain held a 13-point edge on strong leadership in early March before the Democratic nomination battle wound down.



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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. And the enthusiasm numbers are devastating
I think it's 68% Obama, 29% McCain. (DOwn 17% for McCain since convention. Obama holding steady)
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. yes very telling
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. But,... But.... But... CNN said......
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7441077&mesg_id=7441077

*snip*

Bradley Effect isn't working. CNN has new Theory as to Why Obama Won't Win: Complacency
Advertisements Obama's winning status will lower voter turnout leading to an upset on Election night.

Yep. CNN is now McCNN.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. Grantcart, can you explain to me the difference between The Polls and
internal polling?

Both Andrea Mitchell and a McCain guy today said the internal polls showed the spreads to be closer than The Polls we all are looking at.

And, do you think that Obama's and McCain's polls are pretty close?

Thanks (I asked this earlier, but got no responses, except for one really funny one, but it didn't clarify it for me). :hi:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You got this questioned answered already in your own thread
Why do you keep pushing this stupid point?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Thank you - last time i looked there was only that one response. I'll go look again.
And I only asked again here because I didn't realize I'd gotten a valid response. Why do you accuse me of 'pushing this stupid point'? I want to understand - is that stupid?

Are you insinuating I have an ulterior motive?


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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I think that internal polls consist of two different sources

1) professional polling that takes a representative number like public polls


2) the huge data base of results that come from canvassing - all of the hard work done by thousands of canvassers and phone callers to identify millions of voters.

This is much more accurate because they can take a microscopic look on a nightly basis of what is happening in a bellweather county or bellweather precinct.

They can match what thousands of people have said to their canvassers in a particular county and compare that with the votes in past elections.

Because the database is huge and being updated daily it is considered a much better source.


I think that internal polls between the campaigns are usually pretty close except that Obama's would be much better because his canvassing effort is much much bigger.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thank you - now I get it. nt
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. One other reason Obama's negatives went down after the debate:
It became obvious that he wasn't a radical muslim terrorist bent on destroying America. People realized they had been lied to about Obama, and they didn't appreciate it.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. tks for your comment
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. WHAT!#%^$?
That was my candidate since February. Where do I go to vote for the guy trying to destroy America now?

If I need to add sarcasm I'm going to throw a brick.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. No evidence that Obama saying "John is right" helped Obama
That's a wild interpretation on your part.

Obama could have framed that portion better by saying "I'm glad John agrees with me" or "'I'm glad that John and I have come to the same conclusion on such-and-such." Those lines re-enforce 1) McCain and Obama are peers and 2) Obama exerting control over the debate while being diplomatic. By saying that "John is right", Obama is making McCain's argument that McCain is the better candidate. I noticed that in the 2nd debate Obama did not say "John is right" again and in the 2nd debate Obama was more aggressive in defending his positions and attacking McCain on the issues and his positions. Most voters see those attacks as fair. McCain attacked Obama primarily on character and McCain only offered voters the same failed strategies that got us into this economic mess in the first place. Thanks to the economic meltdown under Bush's watch, voters are more attune to the GOP deception game.

What helped Obama was 1) the worsening economic meltdown and 2) his overall demeanor in the debates. He kept his cool and did defend himself when attacked by McCain. Most voters, especially low-info voters, want a President who looks like a strong leader. If the candidate can not or will not defend him/herself from campaign attacks, that lowers confidence in that candidate as Presidential material in the eyes of many non-politically astute voters. If a Prez candidate can't defend him/herself from another candidate , how can that candidate stand up to world leaders like Putin? That's the main character question voters ask themselves.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. The evidence that Obama's performance at the debate had a major
impact on undecideds.

He had an even tone response to McCain.


I'll leave the semantics to you.


The point is that the undecideds responded to his tone and not the semantics.


All of your discussion on the economics being the major factor in the polls is reflective of a point of view that concentrates on the top poll numbers. There is nothing in the economics that drives Obama's negatives down or McCain's up.
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DrToast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Pretty strong circumstantial evidence it helped Obama
After the first debate, the McCain took shots at Obama for saying "I agree with John." They even ran ads mocking Obama over it.

In the second debate, McCain was the one saying "I agree with Senator Obama."

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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Gobama!
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cyndensco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. I understood Todd's explanation of the mccain negatives differently.
When I saw him - I believe it was on Hardball but they all begin to mesh after a while - he was downplaying mccain's negatives, attributing them mainly/solely to the black vote. Matthews, IMO, was almost dismissive to Todd's allegations.
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
16. Obama winning the question on taxes is a HUGE deal!
That means a majority believe McCain is lying in his ads about Obama and taxes.

:hi:
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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-13-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R. Thanks for posting.
Fantastic news.
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