stop alienating older voters: warning article: Mother Jones

[amborin]

Flaming the Geezer Vote: Attacks on John McCain's Age May Backfire


Every year, despite their purported senility and decrepitude, elderly people like myself somehow manage to hobble to the polls with their canes and walkers, or zip down in their golf carts or aging Cadillacs, and figure out which lever to pull or which little box to fill in. We are the most reliable group of voters in America.

In 2004, people over the age of 65 made up more than a third of the voting age population, and what's more important, nearly 70% of them actually voted.

In addition, seniors are a key segment of the vote in several vital swing states, including here in Nevada, as well as Florida and Pennsylvania.

With this in mind, attacking McCain on the basis of age is not just mean, it's dumb.


While Obama himself has avoided such attacks, his supporters are gleefully pursuing them. There are websites now devoted to nothing else, and the Guardian Films team's own recent video with Roseanne Barr gets into the act big time, with the comedian declaring that "old people ... should just die" and "know when it's time to move over and leave the future for the young."

Being not that much younger than John McCain myself, I find such attacks disconcerting. I suppose I could do as Roseanne suggests, and kill myself for the good of the nation.

But right now I'm thinking about how to keep working so I can stay alive a bit longer, since our so-called retirement funds in the 401Ks have been decimated in the fiscal chaos, and Medicare benefits could easily get cut as well.

With McCain's long history of favouring things like privatising social security, there are plenty of ways in which Obama supporters could try to win over old people's votes from the GOP--but calling him decrepit and senile is probably not one of them.

As someone who has reported on McCain for decades, I also know that the attacks simply get things wrong. What's wrong with McCain has nothing to do with his age. He was not an old man when he was implicated in the S&L scandal as part of the Keating 5 affair back in the 1980s. He wasn't old when he voted against Martin Luther King Day.

Plus he's been a loose cannon all along, and if he's gotten more "erratic" it's probably from the pressure of groveling before the Republican base.

As for old politicians, I doubt even Roseanne would wish to hasten the death of Ted Kennedy, who is older than McCain, or denounce Robert Byrd as he tottered to the podium, Constitution in hand, to lay out the most scathing attack on Bush for the Iraq war. Gloria Steinem is older than McCain, and she hardly looks or acts ready to be put out to pasture, nor did Paul Newman.

The smarter approach to the geezer vote comes from those Obama supporters who are courting oldsters, rather than alienating them.

Notable among these is what's being called "the Great Schlep," championed by comedian Sarah Silverman--the legions of young Jewish voters who are travelling to Florida to convince their grandparents to vote for Obama, thereby securing "the bubbe vote."

If they'd done something like this back in 2000, the old folks might have spared the country eight years of George W. Bush."

<snip>

<http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2008/10/10361_flaming_the_gee.html>

[steve2470]

1. wise words to heed nt

[Dinger]

11. Indeed (nt)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. If the seniors care about their SS or Medicare AT ALL, they will vote Obama

McSevenhouses has no clue about their lives, which should be fairly obvious by now. Yet I still see clips of seniors saying ridiculously racist and asinine things about Obama. And polls are showing McCain with a substantial lead in the over 65 demographic. At some point you have to say :wtf: A person who is 90 years old experienced the civil rights era and should have absorbed something from it, so I'm not buying this "Oh well, it's their generation so we can't blame them for it" garbage. Fuck yeah I'm blaming them for being willfully stupid and bigoted. The ones that are in that category, not the 1/3 who are not.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

15. Sounds as if you're stereotyping an entire generation based on MSM polls

I see clips of idiots of all age groups saying racist and asinine things about Obama
I blame people of all ages who refuse to educate themselves about political matters, and remain willfully stupid and bigoted.
I will not assume or believe that only 1/3 of people over 65 are Obama supporters or that 2/3 of them are ignorant and bigoted.

Did you even read this article? You need to.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

24. I'm basing it on scientific polls like Gallup and Rasmussen

Not "MSM polls" whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. And yeah, I'll come down harder on older people for being stupid. Experience should teach you something and yet so many people don't bother to learn a fucking thing no matter how long they are on the planet. Then we're told we must respect them, for they have so much "wisdom". My ass they do. And again, I'm talking about the ones who are stupid, whether they are in the majority or not, so bag that "you're stereotyping" bullshit. I was NOT.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

29. Disgusting and ridiculous. If you talked this way about any other group

-a particular race, gender, nationality, you would probably be banned.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

33. You're the one stereotyping

You don't think highly enough of older people to believe that they should be held accountable for their actions and attitudes like anyone else. You're the one who's disgusting and ridiculous.

[fujiyama]

3. For the most part this is right on

but with McCain, I sense that he's not all there anymore, mentally speaking. And his health and mental fitness are both worth discussing. Both affect his judgment, temperament and mental acuity.

[TexasObserver]

4. More "you'd better be nice to us" group think.

John McCain is too OLD to be president, and anyone who is over 60 years old should know that. Further, they shouldn't be affected by anything anyone says about John McCain being too old to be president. Anyone over 60 whose vote can be swayed by their hurt feelings is a danger to themselves and others. How pathetic can a human being be?! "I'm hurt, so I'm going to vote against my own interests, just to show those people I don't know that their negative opinion matters!"

Anyone over 60 who takes offense at being told 72 is too old be president should grow the fuck up.

[pecwae]

10. A little Soylent Green

for all over 50. That should take care of a lot of problems.

According to the reasoning in your post, "..they shouldn't be affected by anything anyone says about John McCain being too old to be president", then 'they shouldn't be affected by anything anyone says about __ being __ to be president' is also an acceptable statement.

[TexasObserver]

12. Not wanting a 72 year old president is hardly Soylent Territory.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

16. Curious - How old are you?

[TexasObserver]

36. Old enough to know that 72 is too old to be president in 2008.

[Le Taz Hot]

22. Actually, what I get offended at would be statements such as

these:

"Boomers! I wish they would all just hurry up and die off!"

"I smell old people."

"Everything that is wrong in the world can be directly blamed on Boomers!"


All direct quotes from "enlightened," apparently younger DUers. The ageism on this site is nothing short of nauseating.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. I saw a DUer blame Gen X for Reagan and Bush II getting elected

I pointed out to her that the vast majority of us weren't old enough to vote in the Reagan era and then showed her the voting stats where Boomers went for Bush over Kerry, while Gen X and younger went for Kerry.

Funny, she didn't respond to that.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

31. Once again - stereotyping people based on quasi-sci stats

your voting statistics only count if the election was legitimate. Many believe it was not.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

32. I am not stereotyping anyone

*on edit* I decided not to put you on ignore because I want to see how far down the slippery slope of irrationality you will go.

So, what about my post was "quasi-scientific" to you? The point that most Gen Xers were too young to vote for Reagan? Or the point that voting stats showed Boomers picking Bush over Kerry? BTW, they went for Reagan in a big way too.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

41. I'll take the burden off you - you are now ignored

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. So Gen Xers ARE to blame for Reagan and Bush?

Are you agreeing with the woman?

Do tell.

[madmom]

30. This I have to agree with...on a side note my m-i-l thinks anyone under 35

shouldn't be "allowed" to vote because they haven't learned about life yet!OH and she says she's a dem yet to boot! yeah right.

[TexasObserver]

38. Any argument that tries to blame any generation for life's troubles is stupid.

As for "ageism," if you mean there are people at DU who think their age gives them license to be crabby, that's true. Look at the responses to my first post. Those who irrationally maintain that 72 is fine for a president are guilty of ageism. They're claiming that advanced age doesn't matter, when it does. Do you want a 72 year old brain surgeon? How about a 72 year old anesthesiologist?

McCain already shows signs of senility, AND SO DO MOST PEOPLE HIS AGE. This is a medical fact.

Just as 72 is too old to be an athlete or a brain surgeon, it's too old to be president in today's world. This is called an OPINION. It's based upon FACTS and OBSERVATIONS. No one has to agree with it, and I don't care who disagrees with it.

[Le Taz Hot]

43. Apparently, reading comprehension

is acquired with age. :eyes:

The original article posited that insulting older voters is not the way to win over their confidence or their votes. My post had to do with the rampant ageism on this site that is allowed to stand. I don't believe either suggested that anyone has all their marbles at age 72, much less 76 (re-election) to 80.

So, Senor Quixote, you might want to step away from the windmills and take a deep breath.

Peace
LTH

[TexasObserver]

45. I'm sympathetic to the fact that yours is failing.

We all grow old, but some don't do so gracefully.

It's unfortunate you're bitter about it.

[LanternWaste]

47. That was great!

"So, Senor Quixote..."

That was great! :applause:

That's all... I just thought that was the funniest bit I've read all day :)

[bridgit]

28. Pft what nonsense this? That ain't the half of it; he's too *nutty* and you know it.

So what now? Now we gotta vote for 'the young hip cool guys w/raybans'!? That's preposterous

[TexasObserver]

39. McCain is too nutty to be president. He's also too old to be president in 2008.

There may be a 72 year old in America who hasn't lost a step, whose mind is as good as it was at age 52, but I doubt it. The degeneration of the body is predictable, and the brain is part of that body. Like the weakened bones, the restricted arteries, and the high blood pressure, the brain suffers along with the rest of the body.

It's irrational to pretend these things do not affect the ability of a person to handle the hardest job in the world, being president.

Some people cannot handle the fact that they are getting old, and they lash out at those who correctly observe that age takes everyone down eventually. It's not ageist to observe that one who is 72 should never again be elected president. We're not talking about Secretary of State, or Governor, but president. We're not talking about a senator or a congresswoman. We're talking about the presidency.

[LanternWaste]

49. Ted Kennedy seems to have been plugging away...

Ted Kennedy seems to have been plugging away with all the effectiveness of his youth until his very recent bout with cancer. However, as cancer affects people of all ages, it's neither here nor there...

[TexasObserver]

51. And as I said, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A SENATOR.

Are we?

We're talking about president.

And yes, Teddy is too old to be president.

Since you apparently failed to read that part of my last post, I'll put it in bold for you, so you can read it.

It's not ageist to observe that one who is 72 should never again be elected president. We're not talking about Secretary of State, or Governor, but president. We're not talking about a senator or a congresswoman. We're talking about the presidency.

[LanternWaste]

52. bless your little passive-aggressive heart

Actually I did read the last part of your post (bless your little passive-aggressive heart!)I'm afraid I don't understand the precise and relevant moral difference between being older and a Senator and older and a President. Both make decisions that directly and indirect affect our lives. Both hold positions of power and responsibility. Both are theoretically beholden to their constituents.

What would be your absolute age limit on Pres? On Sen? On Congressmen? On what do you base that standard on (other than mere conjecture)?

Seems to me that Kennedy as he is now would be more mentally in place than Bush on a good day-- but maybe you fee differently... :shrug:

But my "misunderestimation" of your post is probably because I'm old and feeble minded.

Wow-- did you ask for piss in your Wheaties in this morning, or was it accident. I'm sorry-- was that bit of slap-stick before your time? It does predate the nineties, so.... it means, 'no need to get irate over something not worth getting irate over'...)


:rofl:

[TexasObserver]

53. Read the WORDS IN CAPITALS AGAIN

Read them until you understand them.

However many times that takes.

As for your wanting to have explained the difference between being president and being senator, if you don't already know, having it explained to you one more time won't help you. As you noted about yourself, it's probably because you're "old and feeble minded." Your words and conclusion, not mine, but I won't argue with you about it.

[LanternWaste]

54. what is the precise age limit you would place

Oooo-kay.... :eyes:


But again, what is the precise age limit you would place on the Pres (as you obviously feel the feeble-minded and infirmed can sit in the Senate or the Courts w/o any ill effects)? On what valid bit of peer-reviewed and relevant science is that based on?

What other health-restrictions would you impose to limit people from running?



Or... if you just want to play your little "read it again" game and pretend your posts can stand on their own as it, lacking intellectual consistency in these instances, then so be it... I'm old and infirmed and will most likely forget how ineffectual your responses really are.

Wow-- it really is the breakfast of Champions, champ!

[KT2000]

5. Believe me

no one knows the short comings age can cause better than older people and they are usually very frank about that.
Of course they should be courted for the votes but raising the age issue as one of concern is not that big a deal.

You will hear more often from them, "we need a younger person, or he's just too old."

[illuminaughty]

6. Totally agree

I cannot stand to hear the attacks about McCain's age, unless they are in earnest concerning his health. Otherwise, it is not only disrespectful to the elderly, it also shows how we treat the elderly in our nation. Any great society treats its seniors with respect and their years of wisdom are something honorable, not something to ridicule.

[TuxedoKat]

20. I agree with you totally.

Question his health but his age should be off-limits. What if Barack is elected for two terms and Joe Biden decides he wants to run in in '16? It seems unlikely but the age issue could come back to haunt us if so.

[TheKentuckian]

7. I think that you would also accept that a sizable percentage

if not a majority of the people most uncomfortable with McCain's age are in his age group.

For me McShame's age was one of the least of my issue but special focus on his running mate is logical and he presents someone who is incapable in any foreseeable future. Palin also demonstrates reasoned arguments against herself by her own actions, lies, smears without credibility from a glass house, and nasty, vindictive, incurious demeanor that she cries out loud that she is unfit to hold the office. Not to mention, probably highly dangerous in about any way I can think of.
How many people in their 70's think someone should bet our country that he'll be here in four years. He may well be among us for 25 years but at any age Palin is ridiculous and at 72, it shows utter contempt. Especially the McCain version of 72, he's no Jack LaLanne and Jack has 20 years on McHoover. Hell, Byrd might kick McShame's ass.

I'd also remind our elders that McCain says he's your friend but that doesn't hold up to even a whiff test, much less examination. Why in the world would you guys want McShame to destroy Medicare, Social Security, and salt the current and next generations even as the are planted or take root? How are is it ok for anyone to flush the country completely down the toilet over off color comments about one man?

Let's stop trying to find ways to get upset into justifying doing the wrong thing and do what is right for our country. Its not a smart way to react to some slight or remarks with spite. Lead by example with the patience, wisdom, maturity, and steadiness that we hope may be some of the benefits of long years rather than to revert to a playground mentality yourselves.

[Waiting For Everyman]

8. I'm a senior citizen and I have no problem saying this... McC is too old to be President.

It's a fact. That isn't a put-down. It's practical reality, that he's very unlikely to live through his term... 1) age now; 2) POW stress; 3) cancer; 4) stress of the office. He isn't up to it, on a day-to-day basis, either - that's clear from observing his campaign.

Should an 80 year old be President? 90? What's too old, then? There's no formal cutoff point in the law, but to me, it's roughly around 60. You'd have to assume the possibility of 2 terms, and that would put him/her at 68 by the end of it. That's old enough. Does that apply to Joe Biden? No, because he's backup, that isn't nearly as stressful or demanding. But I doubt that you'll find him wanting to run for the top spot after this. Maybe he'd be in good enough shape to do that, and maybe not.

The partisan remarks that are made which maybe could be taken personally by voters, if projected onto themselves? Do we need to be that PC all the time? I'd expect a senior to be a bit more of an adult. When the lowest common denominator of such sensitivities is catered to, it has a tendency to get lower still, and lower. It becomes a self-feeding race to a bottom-point of absurdity.

Just because some seniors are too old to be President, that doesn't make them any less valuable human beings. It isn't a "slight". Any given job isn't for everyone, that's all - for any number of reasons.

[FloridaJudy]

9. We geezers know full well

Just what a toll age takes. Sure, we can be active up until our nineties, but running a country? That takes a heckuvalot more stamina than most of us are capable of. And McCain isn't just old - he's out of touch. My sister's eighty year old neighbor is still a firebrand, organizing for progressive causes all over the Internet, while McCain claims he can't even open his own e-mail. McSame doesn't even have a clue about what the average worker makes in this country, and can't even remember how many houses he owns. I'm sure he has staff that take care of piddly little details like that, but it just goes to show how far removed he is from the concerns of most Americans.

I'm voting for the energetic young guy.

Here's your torch. Take it. Take it! It's time for my nap.

[TexasObserver]

13. Likewise.

In McCain it is an easy call, because he is obviously not in good physical condition, appears to forget things he was told the day before, repeats things that have long been history, and generally demonstrates the kind of thinking and awareness that reflects some loss of ability to recall current and recent events.

Just as we peak physically in our late 20s or early 30s, we peak for a job like the presidency. The job today is overwhelming, and it is best performed by someone 45-55, in my view.

[sad sally]

56. Amen, sister!

[eowyn_of_rohan]

14. am sick of McCain being slammed for his AGE

It is juvenile and crass. There is plenty to criticize him for, but age-ist jokes about "Depends", bodily functions, wrinkled skin, etc are insulting and hurtful to everyone - not only those who are over 50, but those who have elderly parents or loved ones .

[olegramps]

17. Well I am one of those old geezers

If someone who is in their 70's thinks that they have the stamina that the presidency of the United States requires, it is proof of their declining mental acumen. I am in good health, but I can assure you that I would never believe that I could put in 12-14 hour days attending to myriad problems that must be dealt with daily.

[olegramps]

18. I want to add

It actually scares the hell out of me is that McCain is so driven by his insatiable lust for power that he would put the nation's wellbeing in jeopardy. He is so damn delusional that he thinks that he superman when he is just another old fart like me. I am the first to admit that I just don't have the capacity to grasp things as quickly as when I was in my prime. When I look at McCain I see a person who has never, I repeat never excelled at anything. Nothing more than another spoiled brat cut out of the same cloth as Bush. Both are champions of Mediocrity.

[TexasObserver]

42. Agreed!

You wrote "If someone who is in their 70's thinks that they have the stamina that the presidency of the United States requires, it is proof of their declining mental acumen."

That is absolutely right. As we grow older, those of us who are rational and don't want to spend our senior years kidding ourselves know that you are correct.

A Supreme Court justice at 72 is fine, because they don't have to run the world and be on call 24/7 for years. We can still be thoughtful, useful, and contemplative without being up to the job of president.

If I require brain surgery, and all I can know about my doctor is his or her age, I'm going to pick that 52 year old, not that 72 year old doctor. Why? Because I'm rational.

[doc03]

19. My 89 year old mother voted for Obama yesterday. n/t

[WinkyDink]

21. Whatever. Older Democrats need not feel offended, as they clearly have their heads screwed on right!

And my 84-yr-old mother thinks McCain is TOO OLD for the job.

OLD PEOPLE KNOW BEST the DECLINE in FACULTIES.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. Thank you!

No one gets a pass from me for being stupid. No one. I'm not going to coddle any particular groups' feelings. It never works anyway.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

23. Older folks know better than anybody that he's not up to the job. They know their

own limitations, and are shaking their heads at McSame. Older folks realize that some stay fit and sharp and keep that ability to take on a challenge, and they know that McSame does not fall into that category.

[Overseas]

35. That's what I think. Older people can tell who is still fit to lead

and who's had multiple recurring melanoma four times and rashly appointed a Christian Fundamentalist who doesn't know much about foreign policy as his VP, and doesn't have the temperament to lead this country.

[TexasObserver]

46. You are correct, and polls support your comments.

While people over 60 are McCain's strongest constituency, it's also the group that most finds his age troubling.

[bridgit]

25. rec 5

[JitterbugPerfume]

37. I am three years younger than McCain

and he ACTS like an old man. When you get to "a certain age" it is your attitude toward change and how you face life that defines you.


He is an old fart

[FVZA_Colonel]

40. They don't seem to have affected Obama's standing so far, and I don't think they're as frequent as

they were a few months ago. I do not think attacks based on age are productive, but I also think they're really aren't that many of them out there.

[ZoltarSpeaks]

44. It's not the age, it's the secondary impairments

I agree that attacking McCain's age directly has potential to lose votes in that demographic.

It can be difficult to accept that you get any impairments associated with age simply because, like wrinkles, they occur so slowly. Many seniors are often no longer in stressful environments where their faculties get put to the test daily and where changes become obvious, even to them.

I would make it more of an issue about being physically and mentally up to the task of the job, independent of age, and focus on what a monstrous job the next president will be tasked with. McCain does not appear to be strong enough for it, in my opinion, regardless of his age. The same people that defend their age group might think twice if they themselves were faced with working long, stressful days for the next four years.

I don't want another part-time president with a 10 minute attention span before nappy time.

[Warren DeMontague]

48. Why the fuck am I responsible for what comes out of Rosanne Barr's mouth?

Give me a break. It's not mature to whine.

[frogmarch]

50. K&R nt

[LanternWaste]

55. I imagine, judging from some of the responses here, the article...

I imagine, judging from some of the responses here, the article is both timely and topical.

Seems there are still individuals who feel that a one-size-fits-all age discrimination is just the thing to better serve the office of the Presidency.

For myself, I imagine some people are sharp as whip (and sharper than most of us) at age 95, while some of our own younger, less.... emotionally stable and prone-to-outburst posters would be no better than the fellow sitting in the Office today. I suppose lumping all of the elderly into the same mental group is easier than looking at a person on a individual level and judging his or her capacity to lead the country from that perspective (easier... lazy-- six of one, half a dozen of the other).

So I can't really believe that age is indicative of one's mental capacity. At best, it's merely one gauge among many that can merely point us in a general direction.

I wonder-- if one say a person is too old to be President, then one may be forced to state that a person is also too old to vote to maintain intellectual honesty.

[progressivebydesign]

57. Word to Mother Jones. My Mom's friens, all in their 70s and 80s, think he's a geezer.

What people who aren't that age don't understand, is that when you're that age you think everyone else is OLDER, even if they're not. You never see yourself as that old... my Mom's friends and neighbors think he's a geezer, and they love Obama because he's so energetic. I have yet to meet one older person that was offended by the comments regarding McCain. Geezer is not an AGE, it's a state of mind.

[TexasObserver]

58. And many seniors agree with them.

More seniors think McCain is a geezer than any demographic does.

Polls have consistently shown that.

[kiranon]

59. Agree and I'm over 65. n/t